Hello,

I know this one gets debated a lot and don't want to start an argument but
was trying to work out the alcohol content of my latest concoction.

I started with SG 1.092 giving PA of 12.5%.

Finished at 0.984.

So, do I have a 12.5% abv wine or do I use the total drop of SG giving
14.5%?

This is only for the label on the bottle for when I give a couple of bottles
away. Main thing is even before any aging it tastes great! Definitely my
best batch yet.

You have about 12.1% v/v alcohol.
Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas

"R-D-C" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I know this one gets debated a lot and don't want to start an argument but
was trying to work out the alcohol content of my latest concoction.

I started with SG 1.092 giving PA of 12.5%.

Finished at 0.984.

So, do I have a 12.5% abv wine or do I use the total drop of SG giving
14.5%?

This is only for the label on the bottle for when I give a couple of
bottles away. Main thing is even before any aging it tastes great!
Definitely my best batch yet.

"R-D-C" Royal De-Canter? wrote (in part):

.....
I started with SG 1.092 giving PA of 12.5%.

Finished at 0.984.

So, do I have a 12.5% abv wine or do I use the total drop
of SG giving 14.5%?

Please explain the 14.5% computation.


William Frazier wrote:

You have about 12.1% v/v alcohol.

Please explain the 12.1% computation.


Dick
--
Richard D. Adams, CPA
Moderator: misc.taxes.moderated

1.092 - .984 = 0.108 x 1000 = 108 / 7.36 = 14.67, or 14.7% abv.


Kim

Go to http://vzone.virgin.net/roger.simmonds/dear.htm and you can find
a formula that works for me. To get me in the ball park I just subtract
finished SG from the beginning SG, for get the decimels and devide by
7. That is close enough for me. Using my rounding system your alcohol
level would be 15.4%. Useing the correct ffigures it would be 108/7.04
= 15.3409.Aubrey

Wow, not even thought of those numbers :-)

"atjo" wrote in message
oups.com...
Go to http://vzone.virgin.net/roger.simmonds/dear.htm and you can find
a formula that works for me. To get me in the ball park I just subtract
finished SG from the beginning SG, for get the decimels and devide by
7. That is close enough for me. Using my rounding system your alcohol
level would be 15.4%. Useing the correct ffigures it would be 108/7.04
= 15.3409.Aubrey

Wow, not even thought of those numbers :-)

"atjo" wrote in message
oups.com...
Go to http://vzone.virgin.net/roger.simmonds/dear.htm and you can find
a formula that works for me. To get me in the ball park I just subtract
finished SG from the beginning SG, for get the decimels and devide by
7. That is close enough for me. Using my rounding system your alcohol
level would be 15.4%. Useing the correct ffigures it would be 108/7.04
= 15.3409.Aubrey

http://vzone.virgin.net/roger.simmonds/dear.htm in the tests and
addatives section of the article. Aubrey

"R-D-C" Royal De-Canter? wrote (in part):
I started with SG 1.092 giving PA of 12.5%.
Finished at 0.984.
So, do I have a 12.5% abv wine or do I use the total drop
of SG giving 14.5%?

William Frazier wrote:
You have about 12.1% v/v alcohol.

Please explain the 12.1% computation.
Dick

Dick - This has been discussed a lot recently. Here's the formula I use;
Reference: Homebrewing, Volume 1 by Al Korzonas
Page 31

Calculation of alcohol by weight;
% ABW = (OG - FG) x 105

Calculation of alcohol by volume;
% ABV = ABW x 1.25

Combined method for alcohol by volume;
% ABV = (OG - FG) x 131.25


OG refers to original specific gravity. FG refers to final gravity or the
specific gravity when fermentation is complete. It's my belief that you
can't ferment more sugar than is in the wine to begin with. So, the FG
should be considered 1.000. The fact that we observe specific gravities
less than 1.000 is because of the presence of alcohol and the way it effects
the hydrometer. Therefore, when I calculate alcohol content I always use a
FG of 1.000.

In R-D-C's case;
%ABW = (1.092-1.000) x 105 or 9.66%
%ABV = 9.66 x 1.25 = 12.075 or 12.1%

Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas USA

I will put 12% on my label then.

At least that is enough alcohol to ensure it will keep.


"William Frazier" wrote in message
...
"R-D-C" Royal De-Canter? wrote (in part):
I started with SG 1.092 giving PA of 12.5%.
Finished at 0.984.
So, do I have a 12.5% abv wine or do I use the total drop
of SG giving 14.5%?

William Frazier wrote:
You have about 12.1% v/v alcohol.

Please explain the 12.1% computation.
Dick

Dick - This has been discussed a lot recently. Here's the formula I use;
Reference: Homebrewing, Volume 1 by Al Korzonas
Page 31

Calculation of alcohol by weight;
% ABW = (OG - FG) x 105

Calculation of alcohol by volume;
% ABV = ABW x 1.25

Combined method for alcohol by volume;
% ABV = (OG - FG) x 131.25


OG refers to original specific gravity. FG refers to final gravity or the
specific gravity when fermentation is complete. It's my belief that you
can't ferment more sugar than is in the wine to begin with. So, the FG
should be considered 1.000. The fact that we observe specific gravities
less than 1.000 is because of the presence of alcohol and the way it
effects the hydrometer. Therefore, when I calculate alcohol content I
always use a FG of 1.000.

In R-D-C's case;
%ABW = (1.092-1.000) x 105 or 9.66%
%ABV = 9.66 x 1.25 = 12.075 or 12.1%

Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas USA

Hi

Got back to find so many posts that I decided to reset my reader and get
a fresh start. Senior moment (don't ever get old) 'cause now I can't find
the threads I was watching. Will do my best to answer those I can find.

RDC

You have about 12.2%ABV in that wine. However, with an end reading
of 0.984, I would *guess* that this is a "Country" (non-grape) wine and
that there *may* not be enough acid in it. If this wine were mine, I would
re-check the pH immediately. If I found that it was higher than ~3.5, (ie
4.0) I would adjust_both_acid and SO2 to achieve an "aseptic" level of
molecular SO2. If my *guess* turned out to be wrong, at least I would
be satisfied that my wine would "keep". HTH

Frederick

PS - Let me add this in here. About all that most "modern" winemakers
do is hammer all their ferments down to as close to bone dry as they can
get them and either leave them that way or stabilize chemically and
re-sweeten later. For these folks there is no *need* for end alcohol
calculation since the original PA already tells you how much alcohol will
be in that wine _if_ and _when_ the wine goes DRY !! (eg when all of
the sugar is consumed). So - for all of these folks, all they have to do
is use the original PA number for their "end alcohol" value and print that
on the label. (assuming there have been no subsequent dilutions) This
stuff is *REALLY* easy if you will just let it be. This works because
this is exactly what our hydrometers are designed to do for _practical_
winemakers !!

The only time alcohol (and RS) calculations are_needed_is when a ferment
_doesn't_go dry. (eg for RS ferments and/or "stuck" wines) Even for
"stuck" wines, this isn't really necessary if the maker is determined to
re-start the ferment and hammer it the rest of the way down to dry. About
the only thing it tells him is whether a re-start is feasible or not.

Which pretty much leaves us with only "old fashioned"
RS ferments to worry about. So - for all those who only do "modern"
ferments, forget about all this foolishness and just use the PA number
to print on the labels of your *DRY* wines !! Of course, for wines
that are fermented dry and then re-sweetened, subsequent dilutions
will have to be calculated. HTH and HTMS




"R-D-C" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I know this one gets debated a lot and don't want to start an argument but
was trying to work out the alcohol content of my latest concoction.

I started with SG 1.092 giving PA of 12.5%.

Finished at 0.984.

So, do I have a 12.5% abv wine or do I use the total drop of SG giving
14.5%?

This is only for the label on the bottle for when I give a couple of
bottles away. Main thing is even before any aging it tastes great!
Definitely my best batch yet.

Hi

Got back to find so many posts that I decided to reset my reader and get
a fresh start. Senior moment (don't ever get old) 'cause now I can't find
the threads I was watching. Will do my best to answer those I can find.

RDC

You have about 12.2%ABV in that wine. However, with an end reading
of 0.984, I would *guess* that this is a "Country" (non-grape) wine and
that there *may* not be enough acid in it. If this wine were mine, I would
re-check the pH immediately. If I found that it was higher than ~3.5, (ie
4.0) I would adjust_both_acid and SO2 to achieve an "aseptic" level of
molecular SO2. If my *guess* turned out to be wrong, at least I would
be satisfied that my wine would "keep". HTH

Frederick

PS - Let me add this in here. About all that most "modern" winemakers
do is hammer all their ferments down to as close to bone dry as they can
get them and either leave them that way or stabilize chemically and
re-sweeten later. For these folks there is no *need* for end alcohol
calculation since the original PA already tells you how much alcohol will
be in that wine _if_ and _when_ the wine goes DRY !! (eg when all of
the sugar is consumed). So - for all of these folks, all they have to do
is use the original PA number for their "end alcohol" value and print that
on the label. (assuming there have been no subsequent dilutions) This
stuff is *REALLY* easy if you will just let it be. This works because
this is exactly what our hydrometers are designed to do for _practical_
winemakers !!

The only time alcohol (and RS) calculations are_needed_is when a ferment
_doesn't_go dry. (eg for RS ferments and/or "stuck" wines) Even for
"stuck" wines, this isn't really necessary if the maker is determined to
re-start the ferment and hammer it the rest of the way down to dry. About
the only thing it tells him is whether a re-start is feasible or not.

Which pretty much leaves us with only "old fashioned"
RS ferments to worry about. So - for all those who only do "modern"
ferments, forget about all this foolishness and just use the PA number
to print on the labels of your *DRY* wines !! Of course, for wines
that are fermented dry and then re-sweetened, subsequent dilutions
will have to be calculated. HTH and HTMS




"R-D-C" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I know this one gets debated a lot and don't want to start an argument but
was trying to work out the alcohol content of my latest concoction.

I started with SG 1.092 giving PA of 12.5%.

Finished at 0.984.

So, do I have a 12.5% abv wine or do I use the total drop of SG giving
14.5%?

This is only for the label on the bottle for when I give a couple of
bottles away. Main thing is even before any aging it tastes great!
Definitely my best batch yet.

"Dick Adams" wrote in message
...

Please explain the 14.5% computation.

Dick

Hi

This is the wrong answer. It is the result of using total drop without
compensating for the effect of the alcohol on our SG readings. It's
like our computers: Sh** in - sh** out. HTH

Frederick

"Dick Adams" wrote in message
...

Please explain the 14.5% computation.

Dick

Hi

This is the wrong answer. It is the result of using total drop without
compensating for the effect of the alcohol on our SG readings. It's
like our computers: Sh** in - sh** out. HTH

Frederick

William Frazier wrote:
You have about 12.1% v/v alcohol.

Please explain the 12.1% computation.
Dick

Dick - This has been discussed a lot recently. Here's the formula I use;
Reference: Homebrewing, Volume 1 by Al Korzonas
Page 31

Calculation of alcohol by weight;
% ABW = (OG - FG) x 105

Calculation of alcohol by volume;
% ABV = ABW x 1.25

Combined method for alcohol by volume;
% ABV = (OG - FG) x 131.25


OG refers to original specific gravity. FG refers to final gravity or the
specific gravity when fermentation is complete. It's my belief that you
can't ferment more sugar than is in the wine to begin with. So, the FG
should be considered 1.000. The fact that we observe specific gravities
less than 1.000 is because of the presence of alcohol and the way it
effects the hydrometer. Therefore, when I calculate alcohol content I
always use a FG of 1.000.

In R-D-C's case;
%ABW = (1.092-1.000) x 105 or 9.66%
%ABV = 9.66 x 1.25 = 12.075 or 12.1%

Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas USA

Hi Bill

Neither of these methods work. As you have already indicated, the
Korzonas method doesn't compensate for the effect of the alcohol on
total drop. And - your method of substituting 1.000 for any and all FG
readings simply ignores the fact that there is a_big_difference between
an FG of say 0.984 and say 0.995. In fact, all your method does is
recalculate the original PA value. Do some "sanity checks"and you will
see this is true.

Of course, if the wine goes dry, this will be the correct answer, BUT_only_
if the wine goes *dry* !! This being the case, why bother with a
calculation at all when all we have to do is use the original PA as our
end alcohol value for *DRY* wines ?? HTMS

Frederick