Wine kit: Selection 2003 Hanagan Cabernet Merlot (BC)

Hi,

My wine is in the secondary fermentation process which is supposed to
last approx. 10 days but it has now been 15 days and the wine is still
fizzing a little at .0991 gravity, 70 degrees F. The gravity 4 days
ago was .0996 so it's still dropping...

I have a 2nd batch of wine (Carmenere Malbec) fermenting along side
this one that finished secondary fermentation at the 10 day mark so I
don't think it has anything to do with the temperature.

The directions say that I should wait for the wine to stop fermenting
before adding the metabisulphite, sorbate & chitosan at the clearing
stage. It also mentions that if the temperature is too low and the
wine is still fizzing that it should be put into a warmer environment
to help finish the fermentation process.

Should I put the wine into a warmer environment, continue waiting (at
70F) or go ahead and add the clearing agents?

Thanks for your help,

Mark

Mark,

I'm not sure what you mean when you say it's still fizzing, maybe you could
describe what it's doing. But if it's been at 70F I'd just keep waiting
until the gravity is stable and don't rush to add anything - it should be
stable fairly soon if it isn't already. By the way, I would not add the
sorbate - it's not necessary in a dry wine, and from everything I've read it
has a negative impact on the taste (I've never used it and never had a
problem in a dry wine, so I don't really know what the taste impact is).

Ed


"Mark E" wrote in message
...
Wine kit: Selection 2003 Hanagan Cabernet Merlot (BC)

Hi,

My wine is in the secondary fermentation process which is supposed to
last approx. 10 days but it has now been 15 days and the wine is still
fizzing a little at .0991 gravity, 70 degrees F. The gravity 4 days
ago was .0996 so it's still dropping...

I have a 2nd batch of wine (Carmenere Malbec) fermenting along side
this one that finished secondary fermentation at the 10 day mark so I
don't think it has anything to do with the temperature.

The directions say that I should wait for the wine to stop fermenting
before adding the metabisulphite, sorbate & chitosan at the clearing
stage. It also mentions that if the temperature is too low and the
wine is still fizzing that it should be put into a warmer environment
to help finish the fermentation process.

Should I put the wine into a warmer environment, continue waiting (at
70F) or go ahead and add the clearing agents?

Thanks for your help,

Mark

Mark,

I'm not sure what you mean when you say it's still fizzing, maybe you could
describe what it's doing. But if it's been at 70F I'd just keep waiting
until the gravity is stable and don't rush to add anything - it should be
stable fairly soon if it isn't already. By the way, I would not add the
sorbate - it's not necessary in a dry wine, and from everything I've read it
has a negative impact on the taste (I've never used it and never had a
problem in a dry wine, so I don't really know what the taste impact is).

Ed


"Mark E" wrote in message
...
Wine kit: Selection 2003 Hanagan Cabernet Merlot (BC)

Hi,

My wine is in the secondary fermentation process which is supposed to
last approx. 10 days but it has now been 15 days and the wine is still
fizzing a little at .0991 gravity, 70 degrees F. The gravity 4 days
ago was .0996 so it's still dropping...

I have a 2nd batch of wine (Carmenere Malbec) fermenting along side
this one that finished secondary fermentation at the 10 day mark so I
don't think it has anything to do with the temperature.

The directions say that I should wait for the wine to stop fermenting
before adding the metabisulphite, sorbate & chitosan at the clearing
stage. It also mentions that if the temperature is too low and the
wine is still fizzing that it should be put into a warmer environment
to help finish the fermentation process.

Should I put the wine into a warmer environment, continue waiting (at
70F) or go ahead and add the clearing agents?

Thanks for your help,

Mark

Mark,

I'm not sure what you mean when you say it's still fizzing, maybe you could
describe what it's doing. But if it's been at 70F I'd just keep waiting
until the gravity is stable and don't rush to add anything - it should be
stable fairly soon if it isn't already. By the way, I would not add the
sorbate - it's not necessary in a dry wine, and from everything I've read it
has a negative impact on the taste (I've never used it and never had a
problem in a dry wine, so I don't really know what the taste impact is).

Ed


"Mark E" wrote in message
...
Wine kit: Selection 2003 Hanagan Cabernet Merlot (BC)

Hi,

My wine is in the secondary fermentation process which is supposed to
last approx. 10 days but it has now been 15 days and the wine is still
fizzing a little at .0991 gravity, 70 degrees F. The gravity 4 days
ago was .0996 so it's still dropping...

I have a 2nd batch of wine (Carmenere Malbec) fermenting along side
this one that finished secondary fermentation at the 10 day mark so I
don't think it has anything to do with the temperature.

The directions say that I should wait for the wine to stop fermenting
before adding the metabisulphite, sorbate & chitosan at the clearing
stage. It also mentions that if the temperature is too low and the
wine is still fizzing that it should be put into a warmer environment
to help finish the fermentation process.

Should I put the wine into a warmer environment, continue waiting (at
70F) or go ahead and add the clearing agents?

Thanks for your help,

Mark

Mark,

As you probably know, the creation of wine is not a precisely timed
phenomenon. The kit directions are a guideline, not a schedule. The
important question: Is your wine topped up in secondary? If so, just
leave it alone (70F is more than warm enough) and wait until it is
still.

If, however, there is headspace in your secondary, your wine may be at
risk of oxidation if it is left for too long at that low gravity. In
that case, I would proceed with the instructions in the kit.

I have never made wine from a kit, so I won't comment on adding
sorbate to a dry wine, or on adding clearing agents before letting the
wine clear naturally (both are things I would not do).

Roger
Quinta do Placer

"Mark E" wrote in message
...
Wine kit: Selection 2003 Hanagan Cabernet Merlot (BC)

Hi,

My wine is in the secondary fermentation process which is supposed to
last approx. 10 days but it has now been 15 days and the wine is still
fizzing a little at .0991 gravity, 70 degrees F. The gravity 4 days
ago was .0996 so it's still dropping...


Time tables are just guidelines. But it must be about finished. It is not
going to go much below 0.991. (I assume your decimal is in the wrong
place.) That is very low. Temperature is fine. Incidently, and I am not
pocking fun, fizzing is not a determination for wine fermenting. The
question is, is the airlock still working? If it stops for a day then it is
probably finished, but give it a week more to be sure.

I have a 2nd batch of wine (Carmenere Malbec) fermenting along side
this one that finished secondary fermentation at the 10 day mark so I
don't think it has anything to do with the temperature.

The directions say that I should wait for the wine to stop fermenting
before adding the metabisulphite, sorbate & chitosan at the clearing
stage. It also mentions that if the temperature is too low and the
wine is still fizzing that it should be put into a warmer environment
to help finish the fermentation process.

They are exactly right. But your wine is very dry already. If you are not
going to add any sweetener, you do not need to add the sorbate. It
stabalizes the wine so it will not restart fermentation in the bottle. But
at your SG, there will be no sugar left so that is not a problem. Just one
chemical that does not need to be added.


Should I put the wine into a warmer environment, continue waiting (at
70F) or go ahead and add the clearing agents?


No, it is fine.

Thanks for your help,

Mark

You indicated that you are checking it dayly. I know they suggest this in
many kit instructions but it is really not necessary and can be bad for the
wine. Every time you pop off the airlock and take a sample air is getting
to your wine. This is not good in the later stages of fermentation. If you
leave it alone the CO2 being produced and pushing out the airlock will
protect your wine. You defete this protection when you open it. As long as
the airlock is working you know it is fermenting normally so there is no
need to test it. When it stops fermenting you should test it to see that
all the sugar was used up (SG condiderably less than 1.000). Once you test
it this way you should top up as the air that gets in while testing can be
detrimental.

Ray

Mark, don't mess with success. The wine is fermenting, and that's the
important thing (much better than a stuck fermentation, I assure you).
But, if you don't want a wine that dry (and it is getting DRY), then
you'll have to sweeten it back anyway, so you might as well wait it
out and be safe.

For the record, I never expect a wine to finish fermentation in
secondary in only 10 days (by the way, "secondary fermentation" is the
second inoculation with yeast in making sparkling wine; the
fermentation in the secondary is still part of the primary
fermentation). I expect it to ferment for 30 days, and if it finishes
before then I am mildly surprised. If it takes longer, so what? This
isn't a foot race. But then, you are talking kits and I am talking
grapes or fruit....

Jack Keller, The Winemaking Home Page
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net

First of all, thanks for all of your advice:

"Brew King" is the company that makes the wine kits and they use the
terms "fizziness" & "Secondary Fermentation", probably to help newbies
like me. I appreciate the clarifications of terms from each of you.

I will let it finish primary fermentation completely without checking
the wine daily to reduce the chance of introducing foreign elements
and then move on to the next stage.

Regarding the additional ingredients:

Sorbate: So this will probably not be necessary considering the low
sugar level of this wine and the fact that I plan to leave it very
dry. Thanks for the tip.

Metabisulphite: I'm guessing that this is supposed to clear the wine
of any foreign elements (i.e. other yeast strains). If I plan to keep
the wine bottled for a long period of time (i.e. 5 years) would this
be recommended? I remember reading that home made wine usually can't
sit for many years because it lacks a process that wineries are able
to do (I can't recall what that process is...).

Chitosan: So this is suppsed to clear the wine but one of you
mentioned that you let it clear on it's own. Is there a trick to
letting wine clear on it's own or do I just let it sit for an extra
period of time? If so, how many months approx. and how will I know
that it's clear enough?

Jack said: "I am talking grapes or fruit...." - I live in Austin TX
and don't have a place to grow grapes. The local homebrew store only
sells the kits... do you have any advice on how to get wine grapes?
Let's say that I find good wine grapes and plan to extract the juice
myself; my understanding is that the kits I am using are 80% juice &
20% water... Would I use 100% grape juice if possible or a dilution?

Thanks again,

Mark

First of all, thanks for all of your advice:

"Brew King" is the company that makes the wine kits and they use the
terms "fizziness" & "Secondary Fermentation", probably to help newbies
like me. I appreciate the clarifications of terms from each of you.

I will let it finish primary fermentation completely without checking
the wine daily to reduce the chance of introducing foreign elements
and then move on to the next stage.

Regarding the additional ingredients:

Sorbate: So this will probably not be necessary considering the low
sugar level of this wine and the fact that I plan to leave it very
dry. Thanks for the tip.

Metabisulphite: I'm guessing that this is supposed to clear the wine
of any foreign elements (i.e. other yeast strains). If I plan to keep
the wine bottled for a long period of time (i.e. 5 years) would this
be recommended? I remember reading that home made wine usually can't
sit for many years because it lacks a process that wineries are able
to do (I can't recall what that process is...).

Chitosan: So this is suppsed to clear the wine but one of you
mentioned that you let it clear on it's own. Is there a trick to
letting wine clear on it's own or do I just let it sit for an extra
period of time? If so, how many months approx. and how will I know
that it's clear enough?

Jack said: "I am talking grapes or fruit...." - I live in Austin TX
and don't have a place to grow grapes. The local homebrew store only
sells the kits... do you have any advice on how to get wine grapes?
Let's say that I find good wine grapes and plan to extract the juice
myself; my understanding is that the kits I am using are 80% juice &
20% water... Would I use 100% grape juice if possible or a dilution?

Thanks again,

Mark

Mark

See below.

Don't avoid this step, it's needed. It protects the wine from
premature oxidation among other things. Whoever said homemade wine
can't last for several years did not know what they were talking
about. Well made wine is well made wine. I can't say a kit wine will
be better in 5 years, I have no experience with them. Most reds
benefit from a year or so in the bottle though.

If you or someone who will drink your wines hase a problem with the
use of sulfites it can be eliminated, but it makes things more
complex, the wine is unprotected in a sense. The amount of sulfite
needed to protect wine is very low, it's measured in parts per
million.

Metabisulphite: I'm guessing that this is supposed to clear the wine
of any foreign elements (i.e. other yeast strains). If I plan to keep
the wine bottled for a long period of time (i.e. 5 years) would this
be recommended? I remember reading that home made wine usually can't
sit for many years because it lacks a process that wineries are able
to do (I can't recall what that process is...).


Wine will naturally clear on it's own usually. You can fine (ad the
chitosan) at any time. You should rack off the gross lees at minimum,
or stir them if you like a 'creamy' taste in your wine, that's called
a 'sur lee' style. Most grape wines are pretty clean within 3 months.

Chitosan: So this is suppsed to clear the wine but one of you
mentioned that you let it clear on it's own. Is there a trick to
letting wine clear on it's own or do I just let it sit for an extra
period of time? If so, how many months approx. and how will I know
that it's clear enough?

Good grapes are grown in Texas, you may be closer to a winery than you
think... Never add water unless there is a good reason, like way too
much acid or sugar in the juice.

Joe

Jack said: "I am talking grapes or fruit...." - I live in Austin TX
and don't have a place to grow grapes. The local homebrew store only
sells the kits... do you have any advice on how to get wine grapes?
Let's say that I find good wine grapes and plan to extract the juice
myself; my understanding is that the kits I am using are 80% juice &
20% water... Would I use 100% grape juice if possible or a dilution?

Thanks again,

Mark

Metabisulphite: I'm guessing that this is supposed to clear the wine
of any foreign elements (i.e. other yeast strains).

No, this is the standard disinfectant/preservative used by winemakers
at various stages of the process. It is variably referred to as
"sulfite" or "SO2" or "meta." The key is to maintain as low a level of
this as possible while keeping the wine antiseptic. If the kit
provides a dose of this and instructs you to use it, I wouldn't drift
far from its recommendation.

Chitosan: So this is suppsed to clear the wine but one of you
mentioned that you let it clear on it's own.

As a general rule, wines should be allowed to clear on their own - and
clear they will. It just takes patience. We have all been there for
those first few batches, anxious and eager and wanting to "do
something" every day. Truth is that wine just takes time, and there
are very few things that truly can't wait 'til tomorrow (or next week,
next month...) once the wine is aging, sulfited, topped up, and
stable. Kits are designed to complete sooner, but that doesn't mean
they *need* to be made that way. My solution for this 'problem' is to
start another batch!

my understanding is that the kits I am using are 80% juice &
20% water... Would I use 100% grape juice if possible or a dilution?

The kits involve a concentrated grape base, hence the water addition
(really a reconstitution). With grapes, you use 100% juice. The only
exception is for extremely sweet and/or acidic juice where water
dilution would bring the starting chemistry into line, but that is a
stylistic decision more than anything.

Roger
Quinta do Placer

Metabisulphite: I'm guessing that this is supposed to clear the wine
of any foreign elements (i.e. other yeast strains).

No, this is the standard disinfectant/preservative used by winemakers
at various stages of the process. It is variably referred to as
"sulfite" or "SO2" or "meta." The key is to maintain as low a level of
this as possible while keeping the wine antiseptic. If the kit
provides a dose of this and instructs you to use it, I wouldn't drift
far from its recommendation.

Chitosan: So this is suppsed to clear the wine but one of you
mentioned that you let it clear on it's own.

As a general rule, wines should be allowed to clear on their own - and
clear they will. It just takes patience. We have all been there for
those first few batches, anxious and eager and wanting to "do
something" every day. Truth is that wine just takes time, and there
are very few things that truly can't wait 'til tomorrow (or next week,
next month...) once the wine is aging, sulfited, topped up, and
stable. Kits are designed to complete sooner, but that doesn't mean
they *need* to be made that way. My solution for this 'problem' is to
start another batch!

my understanding is that the kits I am using are 80% juice &
20% water... Would I use 100% grape juice if possible or a dilution?

The kits involve a concentrated grape base, hence the water addition
(really a reconstitution). With grapes, you use 100% juice. The only
exception is for extremely sweet and/or acidic juice where water
dilution would bring the starting chemistry into line, but that is a
stylistic decision more than anything.

Roger
Quinta do Placer

"Mark E" wrote in message
...
First of all, thanks for all of your advice:

"Brew King" is the company that makes the wine kits and they use the
terms "fizziness" & "Secondary Fermentation", probably to help newbies
like me. I appreciate the clarifications of terms from each of you.


Mark, I don't have your instructions in front of me but you may be
misinterpreting them. Fizziness is a term used to describe a wine that has
finished fermentation and started to clear but still has a lot of CO2
disolved in it. When you taste it, it will have a prickly feel on the
tounge. Some people like it. If you bottle too early it will maintain
this. It will clear up on it's own given 2 to 6 months in bulk aging or you
can do the verious sloshing and stirring that they suggest. For many wines
it is better to let this clear up on it's own. But for some wines designed
to be drunk young and fruity, it might be better to manually get rid of the
fizziness so it can be bottled quickly. In any case it needs to be in
bottle for a month or so before drinking.

[snip]


Jack said: "I am talking grapes or fruit...." - I live in Austin TX
and don't have a place to grow grapes. The local homebrew store only
sells the kits... do you have any advice on how to get wine grapes?
Let's say that I find good wine grapes and plan to extract the juice
myself; my understanding is that the kits I am using are 80% juice &
20% water... Would I use 100% grape juice if possible or a dilution?

Getting grapes in Texas is an agravation. There are lots of grapes grown
here but I have not found and vineyards that would sell them to home
winemakers. And I have looked for several years. I have ordered them from
California and I have gone on vacation and picked them in the
Virginia/Maryland/Pensilvania area. Good luck in finding them.


Thanks again,

Mark

Ray

On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 02:42:19 GMT, Mark E wrote:

Wine kit: Selection 2003 Hanagan Cabernet Merlot (BC)

Hi,

My wine is in the secondary fermentation process which is supposed to
last approx. 10 days but it has now been 15 days and the wine is still
fizzing a little at .0991 gravity, 70 degrees F. The gravity 4 days
ago was .0996 so it's still dropping...

I have a 2nd batch of wine (Carmenere Malbec) fermenting along side
this one that finished secondary fermentation at the 10 day mark so I
don't think it has anything to do with the temperature.

The directions say that I should wait for the wine to stop fermenting
before adding the metabisulphite, sorbate & chitosan at the clearing
stage. It also mentions that if the temperature is too low and the
wine is still fizzing that it should be put into a warmer environment
to help finish the fermentation process.

Should I put the wine into a warmer environment, continue waiting (at
70F) or go ahead and add the clearing agents?

Thanks for your help,

Mark


I had that very problem on a brewking kit, but the SG was stable...
This is my communication with the company:

Hello Andrew,
Thank you for your contact and for using our products. The activity
might just be outgassing? Due to the slightly longer than normal
fermentation, the wine retains CO2 gas in suspension longer than
regular
Selection kits. It could appear 'foamier' than normal.
Have you taken a few consecutive s.g. readings and has it been stable
at
..992? If so you can go ahead and stabilize. You will really need to
stir this one vigorously to be sure to remove all the CO2.

Cheers!
_____________
Linda Kazakoff
Customer Service

www.winexpert.com
1622 Kebet Way
Port Coquitlam, B.C
Canada V3C 5W9
604.941.5588



-----Original Message-----
From: ]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:46 PM
To:
Subject: Form Submission

A Contact form was submitted through the Brewking.com Website. Here
are
the details of the new contact.

Name: Andrew Rawls
Email:
Company:
Address:
City: Anchorage
Country: United States
Province: Alaska
Phone:
Sto 0
Store Other: Arctic Brewing Supply, Anchorage, Alaska, USA
Request Type: Trouble Shooting

Comments: I started a Limited Edition Cabernet Merlot, I racked it to
secondary at 1.010 on May 3, 2004. The wine is still fermenting
briskly
at 0.992, the airlock burps every 90 seconds. The room temperature is
70 degrees F. I usually let Brew King kits ferment until they stop on
their own accord but this one just keeps going. Should I stabalize it
now or wait until it stops fermenting?

On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 02:42:19 GMT, Mark E wrote:

Wine kit: Selection 2003 Hanagan Cabernet Merlot (BC)

Hi,

My wine is in the secondary fermentation process which is supposed to
last approx. 10 days but it has now been 15 days and the wine is still
fizzing a little at .0991 gravity, 70 degrees F. The gravity 4 days
ago was .0996 so it's still dropping...

I have a 2nd batch of wine (Carmenere Malbec) fermenting along side
this one that finished secondary fermentation at the 10 day mark so I
don't think it has anything to do with the temperature.

The directions say that I should wait for the wine to stop fermenting
before adding the metabisulphite, sorbate & chitosan at the clearing
stage. It also mentions that if the temperature is too low and the
wine is still fizzing that it should be put into a warmer environment
to help finish the fermentation process.

Should I put the wine into a warmer environment, continue waiting (at
70F) or go ahead and add the clearing agents?

Thanks for your help,

Mark


I had that very problem on a brewking kit, but the SG was stable...
This is my communication with the company:

Hello Andrew,
Thank you for your contact and for using our products. The activity
might just be outgassing? Due to the slightly longer than normal
fermentation, the wine retains CO2 gas in suspension longer than
regular
Selection kits. It could appear 'foamier' than normal.
Have you taken a few consecutive s.g. readings and has it been stable
at
..992? If so you can go ahead and stabilize. You will really need to
stir this one vigorously to be sure to remove all the CO2.

Cheers!
_____________
Linda Kazakoff
Customer Service

www.winexpert.com
1622 Kebet Way
Port Coquitlam, B.C
Canada V3C 5W9
604.941.5588



-----Original Message-----
From: ]
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:46 PM
To:
Subject: Form Submission

A Contact form was submitted through the Brewking.com Website. Here
are
the details of the new contact.

Name: Andrew Rawls
Email:
Company:
Address:
City: Anchorage
Country: United States
Province: Alaska
Phone:
Sto 0
Store Other: Arctic Brewing Supply, Anchorage, Alaska, USA
Request Type: Trouble Shooting

Comments: I started a Limited Edition Cabernet Merlot, I racked it to
secondary at 1.010 on May 3, 2004. The wine is still fermenting
briskly
at 0.992, the airlock burps every 90 seconds. The room temperature is
70 degrees F. I usually let Brew King kits ferment until they stop on
their own accord but this one just keeps going. Should I stabalize it
now or wait until it stops fermenting?