I made a batch of chambourcin from local Maryland grapes last year, and it had
a funky, barnyard type smell...not at all floral or "grapey". Although the
chemistries were OK, I figured that the wine wasn't worth keeping. Recently,
though, I bought a bottle of commercially made Maryland chambourcin and it has
the same off odor.

I've heard that non-vinifera grapes will often have "foxy" smells. What are
people's experiences with these grapes? If this is the best I can expect, then
I won't try them again this year.

Lee

LG1111 wrote:

I made a batch of chambourcin from local Maryland grapes last year, and it
had
a funky, barnyard type smell...not at all floral or "grapey". Although
the
chemistries were OK, I figured that the wine wasn't worth keeping.
Recently, though, I bought a bottle of commercially made Maryland
chambourcin and it has the same off odor.

I've heard that non-vinifera grapes will often have "foxy" smells. What
are
people's experiences with these grapes? If this is the best I can expect,
then I won't try them again this year.

Lee

What you may have experienced is brettanomyces infection. It is a yeast
like organism. It can occur naturally in the vineyard but usually can be
killed with potassium metabisulfite. Once a barrel gets infected, it is
very difficult if not almost impossible to eradicate.

I would not give up on making Chambourcin wine. I too, live in Maryland and
have only experienced a brett problem once - with my own grapes - in the
last eight years. Careful use of metabisulfite prior to fermentation and
once fermentation is completed should help with this problem.

You may be surprised to find that some people acutally like some brett in
their wine. I think the problem would be to keep the amount at a low
enough level. I strive for NONE but some people love it.

(LG1111) wrote in message ...
I made a batch of chambourcin from local Maryland grapes last year, and it had
a funky, barnyard type smell...not at all floral or "grapey". Although the
chemistries were OK, I figured that the wine wasn't worth keeping.

Keep it. You can probably fix it.

Recently,
though, I bought a bottle of commercially made Maryland chambourcin and it has
the same off odor.

Phew!

I've heard that non-vinifera grapes will often have "foxy" smells. What are
people's experiences with these grapes? If this is the best I can expect, then
I won't try them again this year.

Lee

Lee, this happens for a variety of reasons, I'm told. One reason is
not punching down the cap and stirring often during
masceration/fermentation.

I repaired two red wines with copper sulphate solution. But first I
tried Bocksin, without much effect.

Presque Isle can sell you the copper sulphate and they include
directions for use. Use only enough to take away the odor as it is
toxic. Did that get your attention?

Anyway, get it, use it acording to the directions, enjoy your wine
rather than pitching it.

IMHO, commercial wineries should not be selling wine with outhouse
smells.

bb

William wrote:

(LG1111) wrote in message
...
I made a batch of chambourcin from local Maryland grapes last year, and
it had
a funky, barnyard type smell...not at all floral or "grapey". Although
the chemistries were OK, I figured that the wine wasn't worth keeping.

Keep it. You can probably fix it.

Recently,
though, I bought a bottle of commercially made Maryland chambourcin and
it has the same off odor.

Phew!

I've heard that non-vinifera grapes will often have "foxy" smells. What
are
people's experiences with these grapes? If this is the best I can
expect, then I won't try them again this year.

Lee

Lee, this happens for a variety of reasons, I'm told. One reason is
not punching down the cap and stirring often during
masceration/fermentation.

I repaired two red wines with copper sulphate solution. But first I
tried Bocksin, without much effect.

Presque Isle can sell you the copper sulphate and they include
directions for use. Use only enough to take away the odor as it is
toxic. Did that get your attention?

Anyway, get it, use it acording to the directions, enjoy your wine
rather than pitching it.

IMHO, commercial wineries should not be selling wine with outhouse
smells.

bb

If only we could transmit smell over the internet......
I do not think the funky, barnyard type smell is indicative of H2S.
Rotten eggs - yes for H2S ; barnyard probably = Brett.


Since the OP is in Maryland, if he will go to Hillsboro Winery located in
Northern Virginia - near the town of Hillsboro - and ask them for a taste
of what they are selling as Syrah, he will know now and forever what Brett
smells like. The winemaker there described the taste to a group of the
American Wine Society (AWS) as "A product of the fermentation process".
After the tasting, and telling him that I was a winemaker, he admitted to
me that it was Brett. You would be surprised at the people with the AWS
who thought it was just fine and tried to decide with which foods to pair
it. So much for the wine snobs - ha ha ha. Another location - Windham
Winery - also near Hillsboro, VA. had three barrels of Brett infected 2002
Cabernet Franc. It was blended with the rest. It diluted the Brett so the
taste and smell is less pronounced.

Instead of pitching it, I suggest he take it to somewhere like the winery I
mentioned and see if he can sell it - or convince wine snobs that it is a
special smell brought about by particular care of the winemaker. I have
also tasted some commercial wines that were Brett infected, including some
French imports. Like I said, some like it in small quantities. I have
three gallons of the stuff in my basement that I am saving for someone who
may like it. - Are you reading this Ray?

Lee,

The obvious question is "How does it taste?" The reason I ask is that
Chambourcin seems to me to have more taste & mouthfeel than smell/aroma.

As to being foxy or not, Chambourcin is 7/8 vinifera, and hasn't a trace
of foxiness. It makes a darned nice wine, especially if you blend with a
more tannic grape. I use it as the base of my red blend and get a rich,
smooth Beaujolais (not nouveau!) style from it. Don't give up on it yet.

--


Mike MTM, Cokesbury, New Jersey, USA

Thanks for everyone's help. The smell I'm talking about, though, isn't H2S.
Obviously, it's hard to describe a smell, but the most striking part of the
"smell" is that it DOESN"T have the sweet rich aroma of a cab or merlot. I'm
just wondering if this is the way that chambourcin is "supposed" to smell.
Sort of like wet cardboard.

Maybe it's too simplistic, but I've got to figure that people in California
would be growing chambourcin if it was worth it. I think that the reason why
it's grown here in MD is that it's a viable alternative for our climate.

When I first got started in winemaking, I made a pinot noir and was
disappointed. At one point, though, a knowledgeable friend said it was a
really good pinot, and that it shouldn't taste like cab.

Anyway, thanks to all. And I'm doing a mapquest on Hillsboro, VA. Nothing
like driving for a few hours to sample bad wine!

Lee

"LG1111" wrote; I'm just wondering if this is the way that chambourcin is
"supposed" to smell. Sort of like wet cardboard."

LG - Chambourcin does not smell like wet cardboard. Is your wine oxidized?
That's the smell I associate with oxidation.

Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas USA

MikeMTM wrote:

As to being foxy or not, Chambourcin is 7/8 vinifera, and hasn't a trace
of foxiness.

Foxiness is associated with vitis labrusca, not vitis raparia, which is
what the 1/8th of Chambourcin is.(I may be wrong though)

--
charles
Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
"I certainly do not drink all the time. I have to sleep you know."
- W.C. Fields

"Paul E. Lehmann" wrote in message
...
William wrote:
I have
three gallons of the stuff in my basement that I am saving for someone who
may like it. - Are you reading this Ray?

Translated, that means you are going to pawn it off on me, right?

Ray

Are any of you Marylanders going to the wine festival in the Highlandtown
neighborhood of Baltimore this coming (4/18) Sunday?

Paul



"LG1111" wrote in message
...
I made a batch of chambourcin from local Maryland grapes last year, and it
had
a funky, barnyard type smell...not at all floral or "grapey". Although
the
chemistries were OK, I figured that the wine wasn't worth keeping.
Recently,
though, I bought a bottle of commercially made Maryland chambourcin and it
has
the same off odor.

I've heard that non-vinifera grapes will often have "foxy" smells. What
are
people's experiences with these grapes? If this is the best I can expect,
then
I won't try them again this year.

Lee

Pavel314 wrote:

Are any of you Marylanders going to the wine festival in the Highlandtown
neighborhood of Baltimore this coming (4/18) Sunday?

Paul

No, I was not even aware there was one. Generally, I don't attend wine
festivals anymore. I have a LOT of wine in my basement and generally it is
a lot better than I have tasted at the festivals. What I have enjoyed are
impromptu not planned events where some fellow amateur winemakers bring
some of their wines to share





"LG1111" wrote in message
...
I made a batch of chambourcin from local Maryland grapes last year, and
it
had
a funky, barnyard type smell...not at all floral or "grapey". Although
the
chemistries were OK, I figured that the wine wasn't worth keeping.
Recently,
though, I bought a bottle of commercially made Maryland chambourcin and
it
has
the same off odor.

I've heard that non-vinifera grapes will often have "foxy" smells. What
are
people's experiences with these grapes? If this is the best I can
expect,
then
I won't try them again this year.

Lee

Yes. I have a pinot noir, and a grenache entered. Also a Maryland grown
seyval.

Should be good weather (finally).

Lee

On 4/15/2004 9:36 AM, LG1111 wrote:
Yes. I have a pinot noir, and a grenache entered. Also a Maryland grown
seyval.

Should be good weather (finally).

Lee

I have a Cabernet Sauvignon/Zinfandel blend entered. Coming in from
southern York County,PA

Steve

This is a fun festival, especially for those people who like urban old
neighorhoods. The words "pretentious" and "Highlandtown" simply can't be used
in the same sentence. The festival is organized by DePasquale's, an original
type Italian market. At the very least, the food should be good.

Lee

"Paul E. Lehmann" wrote in message ...
William wrote:

(LG1111) wrote in message
...
I made a batch of chambourcin from local Maryland grapes last year, and
it had
a funky, barnyard type smell...not at all floral or "grapey". Although
the chemistries were OK, I figured that the wine wasn't worth keeping.

Keep it. You can probably fix it.

Recently,
though, I bought a bottle of commercially made Maryland chambourcin and
it has the same off odor.

Phew!

I've heard that non-vinifera grapes will often have "foxy" smells. What
are
people's experiences with these grapes? If this is the best I can
expect, then I won't try them again this year.

Lee

Lee, this happens for a variety of reasons, I'm told. One reason is
not punching down the cap and stirring often during
masceration/fermentation.

I repaired two red wines with copper sulphate solution. But first I
tried Bocksin, without much effect.

Presque Isle can sell you the copper sulphate and they include
directions for use. Use only enough to take away the odor as it is
toxic. Did that get your attention?

Anyway, get it, use it acording to the directions, enjoy your wine
rather than pitching it.

IMHO, commercial wineries should not be selling wine with outhouse
smells.

bb

If only we could transmit smell over the internet......

We'd probably violate interstate commerce laws with that smell. ;^)

I do not think the funky, barnyard type smell is indicative of H2S.
Rotten eggs - yes for H2S ; barnyard probably = Brett.

Perhaps. But there's a way to rule out H2S.

Since the OP is in Maryland, if he will go to Hillsboro Winery located in
Northern Virginia - near the town of Hillsboro - and ask them for a taste
of what they are selling as Syrah, he will know now and forever what Brett
smells like. The winemaker there described the taste to a group of the
American Wine Society (AWS) as "A product of the fermentation process".
After the tasting, and telling him that I was a winemaker, he admitted to
me that it was Brett.

Ah, an honest winemaker.

You would be surprised at the people with the AWS
who thought it was just fine and tried to decide with which foods to pair
it. So much for the wine snobs - ha ha ha.

Yeh, I think they're kind of silly.

Another location - Windham
Winery - also near Hillsboro, VA. had three barrels of Brett infected 2002
Cabernet Franc. It was blended with the rest. It diluted the Brett so the
taste and smell is less pronounced.

Ooops. Now they just have more bad wine. Never blend a faulty wine
to make it better. You just end up with lots more faulty wine.

Instead of pitching it, I suggest he take it to somewhere like the winery I
mentioned and see if he can sell it

Naw, that would be illegal.

- or convince wine snobs that it is a
special smell brought about by particular care of the winemaker.

I'm not going to pick on the wine snobs to that degree, unless to
suggest they get get a really rank cheese to go with it.

I have
also tasted some commercial wines that were Brett infected, including some
French imports. Like I said, some like it in small quantities. I have
three gallons of the stuff in my basement that I am saving for someone who
may like it. - Are you reading this Ray?

Paul, again I suggest Lee try the copper sulphate solution. If it
works, then it was H2S, and he has a $2.00 solution. It it is brett,
he can dump it. It was worth $2.00 to me.