"Aaron Puhala" wrote:
Thanks for the tip. I'll make sure I check and provide a little air if
necessary. How did your in-vessel stirred wines turn out? Did you stir
continuously?

I do periodic stirring (usually once every 2-3 days) using a food
turntable (see http://members.tripod.com/~BRotter/Surlie.htm for a
pic).
Stirring has given the wines more body and complexity and I'm quite
happy with the results (though it is a stylistic choice). I have had
some problems with wines going reductive, but if you monitor and
correct when the problem arises there's no problem.

Ben

"Michael Brill" wrote in message
om...
Haven't really thought about fining. Again, I've just been reading
what pinot pros do and it seems like the higher end produces don't
fine or filter.

That's true, but many of those wines throw a protein haze in the bottle. I
_really_ hate that!

BTW, why bentonite and not egg whites or some other
fining material?

Bentonite is very specific to proteins that cause cloudiness due to heat
instability. The other fining materials (egg whites, gelatin, isinglass)
are mostly to reduce tannins. All of them tend to promote clarity.

Tom S

Michael Brill wrote:
Yes, sort of. Actually a lot of the wine went directly from the
fermentor to barrel without a stopover in the press. This was done to
minimize oxygen contact and was accomplished by pushing a pasta
strainer down into the must and then taking the wine out of the pasta
strainer! So while there were no seeds or skins, I'm sure there's

Maybe I'm not following your procedure properly, but wouldn't this
method (with the strainer) introduce *more* oxygen than simply racking
directly? Why not just wait till the cap rises fully, rack (and press)
to another vessel, wait for particulate settling, then rack to barrel?

Haven't really thought about fining. Again, I've just been reading
what pinot pros do and it seems like the higher end produces don't
fine or filter. BTW, why bentonite and not egg whites or some other
fining material?

I would say a lot of those pros don't fine in good years when they
have (access to) excellent quality fruit. Bentonite is used for
protein stability, egg whites are used to reduce astringency - they
have different functions. Pinot is particularly susceptible to protein
haze due to its low tannin content. Egg white fining can be
particularly useful for fruit that's perhaps from a worse off year or
that has been slightly over extracted, pulling back a little on the
excess astringency there.

Tom S wrote:
Also, I've noticed that bentoniting tends to bring the fruit more to the
fore in Pinot Noir - most noticeably in the nose. Don't ask me why. I
can't rationalize that observation. It's just something I noticed.

Interesting observation Tom. I don't doubt it really. Isinglass is
widely reputed to give brighter fruit, and I'd incline to agree with
that from experience too.

Ben

(Ben Rotter) wrote in message . com...
Maybe I'm not following your procedure properly, but wouldn't this
method (with the strainer) introduce *more* oxygen than simply racking
directly? Why not just wait till the cap rises fully, rack (and press)
to another vessel, wait for particulate settling, then rack to barrel?

The goal was to minimize oxygen contact. So I took the strainer (it's
about a foot deep) and pushed it down into/through the cap and then
put a hose into the strainer to rack out. The only oxygen contact was
the very top of the strainer. The strainer kept things like seeds and
skins out. I think this was way less oxygen then putting it through a
press. I also racked most of it into barrel a bit sweet (about 2-3
brix) for extra protection.


I would say a lot of those pros don't fine in good years when they
have (access to) excellent quality fruit. Bentonite is used for
protein stability, egg whites are used to reduce astringency - they
have different functions. Pinot is particularly susceptible to protein
haze due to its low tannin content. Egg white fining can be
particularly useful for fruit that's perhaps from a worse off year or
that has been slightly over extracted, pulling back a little on the
excess astringency there.

So, despite being a winemaking neophyte, I actually was able to track
down shockingly good fruit. But it sounds like I should definitely do
some trials with bentonite to see how it impacts clarity and taste.

....Michael

"Michael Brill" wrote in message
om...
The goal was to minimize oxygen contact. So I took the strainer (it's
about a foot deep) and pushed it down into/through the cap and then
put a hose into the strainer to rack out. The only oxygen contact was
the very top of the strainer. The strainer kept things like seeds and
skins out. I think this was way less oxygen then putting it through a
press. I also racked most of it into barrel a bit sweet (about 2-3
brix) for extra protection.

At that stage of the process, the wine can actually benefit from a bit of
aeration/splashing. That helps to release the dissolved CO2, as well as the
traces of H2S that are produced in all fermentations. Once the wine is in
barrel it becomes more important to guard against air exposure, although
big, tannic reds are less sensitive than Pinot Noir.

From what I've gleaned from your comments in this thread, it sounds like you
went into barrel rather dirty. I'd recommend that you rack now or very soon
to get the wine off its gross lees. Leaving all that vegetable matter in
there won't improve your wine, and you may find the opposite true when it is
too late. Be sure to sulfite if ML is finished. My 2¢ worth.

Tom S

"Tom S" wrote in message m...
At that stage of the process, the wine can actually benefit from a bit of
aeration/splashing. That helps to release the dissolved CO2, as well as the
traces of H2S that are produced in all fermentations. Once the wine is in
barrel it becomes more important to guard against air exposure, although
big, tannic reds are less sensitive than Pinot Noir.

From what I've gleaned from your comments in this thread, it sounds like you
went into barrel rather dirty. I'd recommend that you rack now or very soon
to get the wine off its gross lees. Leaving all that vegetable matter in
there won't improve your wine, and you may find the opposite true when it is
too late. Be sure to sulfite if ML is finished. My 2¢ worth.

So the counter-argument is that the CO2 that remains in the wine
protects it and reduces SO2 requirements. I've seen this in a few
places - most notably the Beaux Freres website
(http://www.beauxfreres.com/technique.htm). Most of my research has
been around pinot where the cool kids seem to age on gross lees and
never rack. I understand this is dangerous (as I've experienced with
a barrel of syrah), but the argument is that the lees does improve the
wine. Like most of winemaking I've found that there are always two
contrary opinions from people whose opinions I respect. It's quite
maddening.

(Michael Brill) wrote in message . com...

Like most of winemaking I've found that there are always two
contrary opinions from people whose opinions I respect. It's quite
maddening.

But if everyone made wine the same way, the world would be much less interesting :-)

Andy