Jack,

Read a bit ago a couple of posts about using Splenda or Stevia to sweeten
wines. Someone mentioned that you were doing some tests with those
sweeteners. I have always avoided artifical sweenteners like poison as I
remember the old aspertame days ugh!

But recently the wife made me try the Splenda in my coffee and I was amazed!
Can't tell the difference from regular sugar.

So, if and when the tests are done would you be so kind to post to the group
your findings. I would be very interested in the conclusions you form.
Understandably long term stability tests will take a while to complete.

Thank you for willingness to help, the wealth of information on your website
and your passion for this hobby.

Have a great holiday

Tom

On Mon, 24 Nov 2003, Tom wrote:

Jack,
But recently the wife made me try the Splenda in my coffee and I was amazed!
Can't tell the difference from regular sugar.
Searching this group in google for a splenda thread will turn up
msg's from Greg Cook and I. I won't go into all the details, but I have
cider sweetened with Splenda that is a few years old (not sure the exact
age as it is written down at home). I haven't seen any problems
with it so far. Be aware that some spoilage organism can ferment
the maltodextrin that makes up the majority of Splenda (the balance being
sucralose).
Warren Place

On 11/24/03 3:20 PM, in article
, "Warren Place"
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Nov 2003, Tom wrote:

Jack,
But recently the wife made me try the Splenda in my coffee and I was amazed!
Can't tell the difference from regular sugar.
Searching this group in google for a splenda thread will turn up
msg's from Greg Cook and I. I won't go into all the details, but I have
cider sweetened with Splenda that is a few years old (not sure the exact
age as it is written down at home). I haven't seen any problems
with it so far. Be aware that some spoilage organism can ferment
the maltodextrin that makes up the majority of Splenda (the balance being
sucralose).
Warren Place


Warren,

Thanks for the update on your Splenda trials. It confirms my chemical
intuition that it would not ferment. I'm glad to hear the maltodextrin has
not been a problem for you. I was worried about that. I wish we could get
sucralose pure, but splenda is the next best thing. I believe that this is
the only solution for long term stability. All the other artificial
sweeteners have either an eventual fermentation problem (stevia), a chemical
stability problem (nutrasweet) or a taste problem (saccharin).

--
Greg Cook
http://homepage.mac.com/gregcook/Wine

(remove spamblocker from my email)

Tom, all I can give you are general comments right now. My notebooks
are at work right now, as I was going to run some of the stats through
our lab's statistician to make sure my methods and results are valid.

Do a Google search of Steevia (the brand of stevia I used) and you'll
get my earlier comments on it. It is stable for short term use in an
unfiltered, unstabilized wine, but utilizing it that way was a mistake
for reasons having nothing to do with stevia -- it was just silly not
to stabilize the wine first. It does break down and will ferment. If
the wine is stable, it will still break down after about three months
and does two things I have seen several times now. (1) It jeopardizes
the clarity of the wine. A brilliant wine will degrade into a clear
wine, no longer brilliant. A clear wine will ytake on a very slight
haze. There are no particulants and no cloudiness, but a very slight
haze that can be seen with a flashlight or laser pointer passed
through the bottle. (2) It can (but not always) develop a slight off
taste, almost metallic. I couldn't believe this, as this was not
evident until at least three months had passed. If the off taste
appears, it gets slightly worse after detection and then seems to
level off. I have noticed it most in citric-dominant wines, a couple
of times in malic wines, but not in tartaric wines (grape). (3) I
have noticed a very slight fizz a couple of times, almost like a
malolactic fermentation has finished in the bottle.

Having said all of that, I still say it is a good sweetener if you
just want to sweeten a wine for near-term consumption. I am assuming
you are using just the minimum amount necessary to balance a slightly
acidic or too alcoholic wine. It doesn't bring out fruit flavors the
way sugar will, but it does sweeten a wine. If you use too much, you
may indice a slightly off taste; I have never done this, but others
have reported it.

Splenda is another animal and almost a delight to use. I have never
had a malto-dextrose tainting problem, but I am aware of the
potential. Just keep everything very clean and you'll have the odds
on your side. It brings out fruitiness as it sweetens dry wines, just
as sugar does, but perhaps not as much. This is a difficult thing to
judge because I've only run one side-by-side comparison of the same
wine with both Splenda and sugar and I couldn't taste the difference
but two others chose the sugared wine for fruitiness in a blind
tasting. My complaint with it is that it doesn't seem to add any body
to a thing wine the way sugar does. I actually tried to measure this,
but doubt that I succeeded. That is what I'm having checked, but I've
been too busy at work to actually present the data for analysis. Even
so, I don't think it contributes to body or mouthfeel the way sugar
does.

I have slightly sweetened (1%) two wines with pure malto-dextrin. I
do not recommend it for every wine, but think it might be okay for
some. I hesitate to say more about it at this time as only one of the
two wines has gone past six-months and I haven't tasted it recently.

That's all I'm willing to say right now. Okay, one more thing. I
don't think any of these will prove to be better than sugar, but for
diabetics they may offer some potential.

Jack Keller, The Winemaking Home Page
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/

Jack-

Thanks for the info, I appreciate it. Sorry for misspelling your name,
(cousin spells it with the "a")

Happy Thanksgiving

Tom
"Jack Keller" wrote in message
om...
Tom, all I can give you are general comments right now. My notebooks
are at work right now, as I was going to run some of the stats through
our lab's statistician to make sure my methods and results are valid.

Do a Google search of Steevia (the brand of stevia I used) and you'll
get my earlier comments on it. It is stable for short term use in an
unfiltered, unstabilized wine, but utilizing it that way was a mistake
for reasons having nothing to do with stevia -- it was just silly not
to stabilize the wine first. It does break down and will ferment. If
the wine is stable, it will still break down after about three months
and does two things I have seen several times now. (1) It jeopardizes
the clarity of the wine. A brilliant wine will degrade into a clear
wine, no longer brilliant. A clear wine will ytake on a very slight
haze. There are no particulants and no cloudiness, but a very slight
haze that can be seen with a flashlight or laser pointer passed
through the bottle. (2) It can (but not always) develop a slight off
taste, almost metallic. I couldn't believe this, as this was not
evident until at least three months had passed. If the off taste
appears, it gets slightly worse after detection and then seems to
level off. I have noticed it most in citric-dominant wines, a couple
of times in malic wines, but not in tartaric wines (grape). (3) I
have noticed a very slight fizz a couple of times, almost like a
malolactic fermentation has finished in the bottle.

Having said all of that, I still say it is a good sweetener if you
just want to sweeten a wine for near-term consumption. I am assuming
you are using just the minimum amount necessary to balance a slightly
acidic or too alcoholic wine. It doesn't bring out fruit flavors the
way sugar will, but it does sweeten a wine. If you use too much, you
may indice a slightly off taste; I have never done this, but others
have reported it.

Splenda is another animal and almost a delight to use. I have never
had a malto-dextrose tainting problem, but I am aware of the
potential. Just keep everything very clean and you'll have the odds
on your side. It brings out fruitiness as it sweetens dry wines, just
as sugar does, but perhaps not as much. This is a difficult thing to
judge because I've only run one side-by-side comparison of the same
wine with both Splenda and sugar and I couldn't taste the difference
but two others chose the sugared wine for fruitiness in a blind
tasting. My complaint with it is that it doesn't seem to add any body
to a thing wine the way sugar does. I actually tried to measure this,
but doubt that I succeeded. That is what I'm having checked, but I've
been too busy at work to actually present the data for analysis. Even
so, I don't think it contributes to body or mouthfeel the way sugar
does.

I have slightly sweetened (1%) two wines with pure malto-dextrin. I
do not recommend it for every wine, but think it might be okay for
some. I hesitate to say more about it at this time as only one of the
two wines has gone past six-months and I haven't tasted it recently.

That's all I'm willing to say right now. Okay, one more thing. I
don't think any of these will prove to be better than sugar, but for
diabetics they may offer some potential.

Jack Keller, The Winemaking Home Page
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/