Hello,
I started two 5 gallon batches of Welch's Grape juice wine per Jack
Keller's recipe. The initial hydrometer reading was around 1.098 or approx.
13% alcohol. I made it directly in the carboy and covered it with a paper
towel as per the instructions. The fermentation went fine for the first 5
or 6 days and then I removed the paper towel and replaced it with a
fermentation lock Since doing this the fermentation has slowed down a lot.
It is currently about 5% PA and only drops about 1/2% every two or three
days. Doesn't it need oxygen to ferment? I think the only reason it hasn't
stopped is because I have given it a little stir when I check it. My
intentions were to add a stabilizer when I reached around 1 or 2% PA to end
up with a 11% wine and a little sweetness.
My question is that, is it normal for it to ferment this slow? and is it
going to stop all together on me? Most of the time when I start a wine in
the buckets they ferment most of the way to dry in the buckets (around 5 - 7
days) and then they have no problem fermenting to dry after racking them to
the carboy and adding a fermentation lock. Maybe I've been doing it wrong
all along and they should be do most of the fermenting in the carboy?
Thanks for you help.
Tom and Shelley

On 11/23/03 2:16 PM, in article
. net, "Tom and Shelley"
wrote:

Hello,
I started two 5 gallon batches of Welch's Grape juice wine per Jack
Keller's recipe. The initial hydrometer reading was around 1.098 or approx.
13% alcohol. I made it directly in the carboy and covered it with a paper
towel as per the instructions. The fermentation went fine for the first 5
or 6 days and then I removed the paper towel and replaced it with a
fermentation lock Since doing this the fermentation has slowed down a lot.
It is currently about 5% PA and only drops about 1/2% every two or three
days. Doesn't it need oxygen to ferment? I think the only reason it hasn't
stopped is because I have given it a little stir when I check it. My
intentions were to add a stabilizer when I reached around 1 or 2% PA to end
up with a 11% wine and a little sweetness.
My question is that, is it normal for it to ferment this slow? and is it
going to stop all together on me? Most of the time when I start a wine in
the buckets they ferment most of the way to dry in the buckets (around 5 - 7
days) and then they have no problem fermenting to dry after racking them to
the carboy and adding a fermentation lock. Maybe I've been doing it wrong
all along and they should be do most of the fermenting in the carboy?
Thanks for you help.
Tom and Shelley



A couple of issues come to mind. Is it in a cool environment? This will slow
down fermentation. To kick it up, you could move it some place warmer. The
other issue may be a lack of nutrients. It is possible the commercial juice
does not have enough for the yeast to really flourish. You could add some
yeast nutrients and see if that helps.

Another issue you will want to consider is when you add your stabilizers. It
will not halt fermentation immediately (sometimes not at all). This is
because they do not kill the yeast, but only prevent them from reproducing.
Thus, any live yeast will happily continue to ferment away until they reach
the end of their life cycle. If you have a lot of yeast and an active
fermentation, you may end up a lot lower in sugar than you intend. You could
try to add your stabilizers when the sugar is a couple percent higher than
you want in the end. A better way may be to chill your wine to close to 30
degrees or so and let the yeast stop and settle out at the alcohol/sugar
level you want. When it has cleared well, rack it (still cold) to remove the
yeast-laden lees. Then add your stabilizers.

The best method is to plan for the amount of alcohol you want and ferment to
dryness. When the wine has cleared and you are getting close to bottling,
stabilize and sweeten to taste.

--
Greg Cook
http://homepage.mac.com/gregcook/Wine

(remove spamblocker from my email)

Greg answered most of your issues but on the "needing air": Yeast need air
early on to reproduce and build up the colony. After the ferment is going
good they no longer need air and the air will damage the wine so it should
be blocked with the air lock. Some batches are just slower than others. I
have not made a pure Welch's batch but I intend to. Maybe someone with
experience can comment on it being a little slower than other wines.

Ray

"Tom and Shelley" wrote in message
link.net...
Hello,
I started two 5 gallon batches of Welch's Grape juice wine per Jack
Keller's recipe. The initial hydrometer reading was around 1.098 or
approx.
13% alcohol. I made it directly in the carboy and covered it with a paper
towel as per the instructions. The fermentation went fine for the first 5
or 6 days and then I removed the paper towel and replaced it with a
fermentation lock Since doing this the fermentation has slowed down a
lot.
It is currently about 5% PA and only drops about 1/2% every two or three
days. Doesn't it need oxygen to ferment? I think the only reason it
hasn't
stopped is because I have given it a little stir when I check it. My
intentions were to add a stabilizer when I reached around 1 or 2% PA to
end
up with a 11% wine and a little sweetness.
My question is that, is it normal for it to ferment this slow? and is
it
going to stop all together on me? Most of the time when I start a wine in
the buckets they ferment most of the way to dry in the buckets (around 5 -
7
days) and then they have no problem fermenting to dry after racking them
to
the carboy and adding a fermentation lock. Maybe I've been doing it wrong
all along and they should be do most of the fermenting in the carboy?
Thanks for you help.
Tom and Shelley

"Ray" wrote:
Greg answered most of your issues but on the "needing air": Yeast need
air
early on to reproduce and build up the colony. After the ferment is going
good they no longer need air and the air will damage the wine so it should
be blocked with the air lock. Some batches are just slower than others.
I
have not made a pure Welch's batch but I intend to. Maybe someone with
experience can comment on it being a little slower than other wines.

Welch's (like some of its competitors) contains 120ppm K2S2O5 (potassium
metabisulphite). It needs aeration.

With proper sugar and acid adjustments, in a loosely-covered primary,
stirred twice daily, it will ferment to dryness within 3-5 days (at
75-80ºF). In a carboy, it will take much longer, and (with the same sugar
levels) tends to stick.

"Tom and Shelley" wrote in message
link.net...
Hello,
I started two 5 gallon batches of Welch's Grape juice wine per Jack
Keller's recipe. The initial hydrometer reading was around 1.098 or
approx.
13% alcohol. I made it directly in the carboy and covered it with a paper
towel as per the instructions. The fermentation went fine for the first 5
or 6 days and then I removed the paper towel and replaced it with a
fermentation lock Since doing this the fermentation has slowed down a
lot.
It is currently about 5% PA and only drops about 1/2% every two or three
days. Doesn't it need oxygen to ferment? I think the only reason it
hasn't
stopped is because I have given it a little stir when I check it. My
intentions were to add a stabilizer when I reached around 1 or 2% PA to
end
up with a 11% wine and a little sweetness.
My question is that, is it normal for it to ferment this slow? and is
it
going to stop all together on me? Most of the time when I start a wine in
the buckets they ferment most of the way to dry in the buckets (around 5 -
7
days) and then they have no problem fermenting to dry after racking them
to
the carboy and adding a fermentation lock. Maybe I've been doing it wrong
all along and they should be do most of the fermenting in the carboy?
Thanks for you help.
Tom and Shelley


Well, I've had a Welch's fermentation going for about 3 months now. Living
in the northeast Us, and being a conservationist, my cellar temperature is
in the 50s at best, so slow going is expected. So, I just make bigger
batches! I prefer the taste of slow, cool ferments anyway.

Tom (or Shelley), the others have already made the most salient
comments, but the first thing I'd do is check your fermentation
temperature and then go to
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/strains.asp and see if it is optimum
for the yeast you are using. Of course, I don't list the optimum for
all strains, but most of the ones you are liable to use in the States
are indicated. You didn't mention what strain you are using or I
would have already checked it for you.

Welch's usually ferments pretty evenly. You may have a nutrient
deficiency, as has been mentioned, in which case a half-teaspoon of
nutrients dissolved in a half-cup of the wine and stirred back in will
help. On the other hand, there is nothing wrong with a fermentation
that slows down, as long as it doesn't stop. I don't care how fast a
wine ferments, I'm not going to rack it until it has been in the
carboy for a month anyway. More potentially good wine is ruined from
hurrying it than from forgetting it for a while.

Good luck, and let us know how it turns out.

Jack Keller, The Winemaking Home Page
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/

Hello again,
Sorry it has taken me this long to reply. I've been working 2 jobs and
I have a friend in the Hospital so I've been running around a lot this week.
I am pretty bad at keeping records and to be honest I'm not sure what
yeast I used. I know it was a Red Star dry yeast and it was either the
Pastuer Red or a Montrochet.
The first batch (Concord Grape) was started on 11/02/03 with a brix of
1.098. After 5 days I put the airlock on and the fermentation began to
slow. Currently the brix is about 1.040 and has been right around that for
the past 4 or 5 days. It seems that it may have stopped.
The second batch (Niagra Grape) was started on 11/9/03 with a brix a
little high around 1.11. Again, after 5 days I put the airlock on.
Currently the brix is about 1.070 but I have not been checking it as often
to see if it has stopped or not.
The two carboys are in my basement sitting on the basement floor (on top
of an couple sheets of cardboard). I never had any problems getting
anything else to ferment there but it is getting colder. The basement temp
us pretty stable but it may have dropped a few degrees this fall. Right now
the temp is around 65 degrees. If this is the problem then I have an old
waterbed heater that can be set from 70 - 100 degrees. I could either set
the carboys on this or wrap it around them. I would have to do a little
testing first to see is those settings are accurate.
As far as nutrients, I followed Jack Keller's recipe. If needed I could
add some more to both batches.
Thanks again for you help.
Tom


"Jack Keller" wrote in message
om...
Tom (or Shelley), the others have already made the most salient
comments, but the first thing I'd do is check your fermentation
temperature and then go to
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/strains.asp and see if it is optimum
for the yeast you are using. Of course, I don't list the optimum for
all strains, but most of the ones you are liable to use in the States
are indicated. You didn't mention what strain you are using or I
would have already checked it for you.

Welch's usually ferments pretty evenly. You may have a nutrient
deficiency, as has been mentioned, in which case a half-teaspoon of
nutrients dissolved in a half-cup of the wine and stirred back in will
help. On the other hand, there is nothing wrong with a fermentation
that slows down, as long as it doesn't stop. I don't care how fast a
wine ferments, I'm not going to rack it until it has been in the
carboy for a month anyway. More potentially good wine is ruined from
hurrying it than from forgetting it for a while.

Good luck, and let us know how it turns out.

Jack Keller, The Winemaking Home Page
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/

Hello again,
Sorry it has taken me this long to reply. I've been working 2 jobs and
I have a friend in the Hospital so I've been running around a lot this week.
I am pretty bad at keeping records and to be honest I'm not sure what
yeast I used. I know it was a Red Star dry yeast and it was either the
Pastuer Red or a Montrochet.
The first batch (Concord Grape) was started on 11/02/03 with a brix of
1.098. After 5 days I put the airlock on and the fermentation began to
slow. Currently the brix is about 1.040 and has been right around that for
the past 4 or 5 days. It seems that it may have stopped.
The second batch (Niagra Grape) was started on 11/9/03 with a brix a
little high around 1.11. Again, after 5 days I put the airlock on.
Currently the brix is about 1.070 but I have not been checking it as often
to see if it has stopped or not.
The two carboys are in my basement sitting on the basement floor (on top
of an couple sheets of cardboard). I never had any problems getting
anything else to ferment there but it is getting colder. The basement temp
us pretty stable but it may have dropped a few degrees this fall. Right now
the temp is around 65 degrees. If this is the problem then I have an old
waterbed heater that can be set from 70 - 100 degrees. I could either set
the carboys on this or wrap it around them. I would have to do a little
testing first to see is those settings are accurate.
As far as nutrients, I followed Jack Keller's recipe. If needed I could
add some more to both batches.
Thanks again for you help.
Tom

"Tom and Shelley" wrote in message
link.net...
Hello,
I started two 5 gallon batches of Welch's Grape juice wine per Jack
Keller's recipe. The initial hydrometer reading was around 1.098 or
approx.
13% alcohol. I made it directly in the carboy and covered it with a paper
towel as per the instructions. The fermentation went fine for the first 5
or 6 days and then I removed the paper towel and replaced it with a
fermentation lock Since doing this the fermentation has slowed down a
lot.
It is currently about 5% PA and only drops about 1/2% every two or three
days. Doesn't it need oxygen to ferment? I think the only reason it
hasn't
stopped is because I have given it a little stir when I check it. My
intentions were to add a stabilizer when I reached around 1 or 2% PA to
end
up with a 11% wine and a little sweetness.
My question is that, is it normal for it to ferment this slow? and is
it
going to stop all together on me? Most of the time when I start a wine in
the buckets they ferment most of the way to dry in the buckets (around 5 -
7
days) and then they have no problem fermenting to dry after racking them
to
the carboy and adding a fermentation lock. Maybe I've been doing it wrong
all along and they should be do most of the fermenting in the carboy?
Thanks for you help.
Tom and Shelley