Well, I just went and did something stupid and bought myself a bladder
press. It's only about 2/3 the capacity of my current #40 ratchet press, but
I figure it will be easier, faster and I really like the s/s basket. A
couple of questions:

How big is the threat of bladder puncture from leaving the stems in?

The manual advises sheathing the outside with a plastic bag to avoid being
drenched from the juice being pressed. Does it really come shooting out and
have to be contained? I was expecting more of an ooze and dribble down the
sides of the basket.

Oh, one more question. What's a fair asking price for a 10 year old #40
ratchet press?

Thanks
Brian

"Brian Lundeen" wrote in message
...
Well, I just went and did something stupid and bought myself a bladder
press.

That wasn't stupid! I promise that you'll throw rocks at your old ratchet
press after your first use.

How big is the threat of bladder puncture from leaving the stems in?

Nonexistent. Don't leave grape shears in it though!

The manual advises sheathing the outside with a plastic bag to avoid being
drenched from the juice being pressed. Does it really come shooting out
and
have to be contained? I was expecting more of an ooze and dribble down the
sides of the basket.

If you can find some, a coarse stainless steel screen lining the _inside_ is
a good idea. Without that, every once in awhile a geyser of must will come
shooting out the side - especially if you apply pressure too rapidly.

The short answer: Use the plastic bag!

BTW, once you reach full pressure (~3 bar) you can leave it under pressure
_overnight_! You'll be surprised how much more juice you'll get out of your
fruit, and this is the stuff with the most extract ("goodies"). You might
want to keep the heavy press fraction separate, but FWIW I never do. The
next day the pomace will be very dry - even without breaking it down and
re-mixing before re-pressing.

Tom S

"Tom S" wrote in message
om...

That wasn't stupid! I promise that you'll throw rocks at your old ratchet
press after your first use.

Well, no, I want it to look nice when I sell it. ;-)


BTW, once you reach full pressure (~3 bar) you can leave it under pressure
_overnight_! You'll be surprised how much more juice you'll get out of
your
fruit, and this is the stuff with the most extract ("goodies"). You might
want to keep the heavy press fraction separate, but FWIW I never do. The
next day the pomace will be very dry - even without breaking it down and
re-mixing before re-pressing.

Are you using your house water supply to inflate the bag? Do you start out
at a lower pressure and build up as the skins are pressed? How do you
control this, just shut the tap off and let it sit until the pressure drops?
The guy I'm buying it from just opens the tap and lets the relief valve
drain off water when it gets to 3 atm, but that seems very wasteful of
water.

Brian

"Brian Lundeen" wrote in message ...
"Tom S" wrote in message
om...

That wasn't stupid! I promise that you'll throw rocks at your old ratchet
press after your first use.

Well, no, I want it to look nice when I sell it. ;-)


BTW, once you reach full pressure (~3 bar) you can leave it under pressure
_overnight_! You'll be surprised how much more juice you'll get out of
your
fruit, and this is the stuff with the most extract ("goodies"). You might
want to keep the heavy press fraction separate, but FWIW I never do. The
next day the pomace will be very dry - even without breaking it down and
re-mixing before re-pressing.

Are you using your house water supply to inflate the bag? Do you start out
at a lower pressure and build up as the skins are pressed? How do you
control this, just shut the tap off and let it sit until the pressure drops?
The guy I'm buying it from just opens the tap and lets the relief valve
drain off water when it gets to 3 atm, but that seems very wasteful of
water.

Brian


Brian, I know you are asking Tom S, but here is my experience:

Are you using your house water supply to inflate the bag?

I do.

Do you start out
at a lower pressure and build up as the skins are pressed?

Yes. I try to keep a constant juice flow.

How do you
control this, just shut the tap off and let it sit until the pressure drops?

I regulate it by the water tap, starting off slowly, then gradually
increase it. I turn the water off when I get to 3 atm and wait about
15 min (I reuse the pomace).

The guy I'm buying it from just opens the tap and lets the relief valve
drain off water when it gets to 3 atm, but that seems very wasteful of
water.

Just turn off the water when the relief valve engages at 3 atm. Also,
to reiterate what Tom S said...definitely use the bag. I tried it
once without a bag and got a 360 degree juice spray.

-David

"Brian Lundeen" wrote in message
...
Are you using your house water supply to inflate the bag? Do you start out
at a lower pressure and build up as the skins are pressed? How do you
control this, just shut the tap off and let it sit until the pressure
drops?

Yes. Yes. And yes - sort of. I shut the valve on the press off until the
flow from the press slows to a trickle.

The guy I'm buying it from just opens the tap and lets the relief valve
drain off water when it gets to 3 atm, but that seems very wasteful of
water.

If the pressure regulator is set properly the relief valve never opens at
all. Sounds like he has the regulator set _above_ the relief valve set
point.

Tom S

I have adapted my bladder press to work on compressed air no leaking
water and if the bladder brakes I will not lose my must. I use a small
compressor with a valve in the line to shut of the compressor at
25psi.

"Tom S" wrote in message
m...


If the pressure regulator is set properly the relief valve never opens at
all. Sounds like he has the regulator set _above_ the relief valve set
point.

There's a pressure regulator on the press itself, or am I misunderstanding?

Where is it, and how do you set it?

Brian

"Jim" wrote in message
...
I have adapted my bladder press to work on compressed air no leaking
water and if the bladder brakes I will not lose my must. I use a small
compressor with a valve in the line to shut of the compressor at
25psi.

Yes but compressed air is far, far, far, far more dangerous. Compressed gas
blows out it throws things. Compressed liquid blows out and it spits. That
is why hydraulic systems always use liquid rather than gas. This probably
will not change your mind but just to let others know -- this is not a good
idea.

Ray

"Negodki" wrote in message
...
Unless you press outdoors (where there are more insects and
bacteria to worry about

Umm, the grapes you are pressing were grown outdoors. Why would you worry
about it? That's what SO2 is for.

Brian

Negodki,

Jim has it right, I'm afraid. What Jim was getting at, is that gases,
_because_ they are compressible, store a great deal of energy to get
them under pressure.

Think of how long an air compressor must run in order to build up 30
psi in a bladder. All that time represents energy being stored up, just
as if one were compressing a spring. If a failure occurs, that energy
isn't released in the same gradual way it was stored, it comes out
immediately & explosively. Water, of course, doesn't compress and
reaches a pressure soon after filling its container. If a hydraulic
failure occurs, the only energy being released comes from the elasticity
of the container, not the medium. It's really an astounding difference
between the two. It's also somewhat counterintuitive, so convincing
people is difficult.

A while back, someone here wrote that he once arrived at a winery just
after an air-filled bladder press ruptured, presumably under normal
pressures. It shattered the thick, 3" wide oak staves of the press and
hurled pieces & must for about 50 feet, as I recall. It was remarked
that a person in the way would have been killed. This jives with what I
know about compressed gas: it's amazingly dangerous.

Please don't take these comments as criticism. It's just that a lot of
people were never taught how different the two are, and learn too late.

Besides, we need to keep all the good winemakers on this group alive &
posting.



Luck, Mike MTM

"Negodki" wrote:
Unless you press outdoors (where there are more insects and
bacteria to worry about

"Brian Lundeen" wrote:
Umm, the grapes you are pressing were grown outdoors. Why would you worry
about it? That's what SO2 is for.

Umm, I don't want insects or bacteria in my wine, sulphited or not.
Furthermore, I don't wish to add the levels of sulphite necessary to kill
the swarm of fruit flies that might find my lees an attractive place to nest
and lay their eggs. Nor is it desirable to add sulphite to the wine at the
time of the press, when fermentation is still occurring.

Vegetables are also grown outdoors. Yet most people wash the dirt and
insects from them before serving them to guests.

Thank you for the explanation, Mike. I'm convinced.

"MikeMTM" wrote in message
...
Negodki,

Jim has it right, I'm afraid. What Jim was getting at, is that gases,
_because_ they are compressible, store a great deal of energy to get
them under pressure.

Think of how long an air compressor must run in order to build up 30
psi in a bladder. All that time represents energy being stored up, just
as if one were compressing a spring. If a failure occurs, that energy
isn't released in the same gradual way it was stored, it comes out
immediately & explosively. Water, of course, doesn't compress and
reaches a pressure soon after filling its container. If a hydraulic
failure occurs, the only energy being released comes from the elasticity
of the container, not the medium. It's really an astounding difference
between the two. It's also somewhat counterintuitive, so convincing
people is difficult.

A while back, someone here wrote that he once arrived at a winery just
after an air-filled bladder press ruptured, presumably under normal
pressures. It shattered the thick, 3" wide oak staves of the press and
hurled pieces & must for about 50 feet, as I recall. It was remarked
that a person in the way would have been killed. This jives with what I
know about compressed gas: it's amazingly dangerous.

Please don't take these comments as criticism. It's just that a lot of
people were never taught how different the two are, and learn too late.

Besides, we need to keep all the good winemakers on this group alive &
posting.



Luck, Mike MTM

"Brian Lundeen" wrote in message
...

"Tom S" wrote in message
m...


If the pressure regulator is set properly the relief valve never opens
at
all. Sounds like he has the regulator set _above_ the relief valve set
point.

There's a pressure regulator on the press itself, or am I
misunderstanding?

Where is it, and how do you set it?

Well, _mine_ has one anyway. It's just before the gauge. I've never
fiddled with it.

Tom S

Tom S

As I said earlier the pressure relief valve is in the line from the
compressor and set at 25psi. When that pressure is reached the
compressor shuts down until the pressure drops and then it starts to
pump again. Commercial wineries use large horizontal bladder presses
which are filled with air to 25psi. and to my knowledge no one has bin
injured by one.

"Jim" wrote in message
...
Commercial wineries use large horizontal bladder presses
which are filled with air to 25psi. and to my knowledge no one has bin
injured by one.

That's not the same thing as a wood-slatted basket press. Tank presses are
made from stainless steel, and are surrounded by a second layer of steel
shrouding. They're _designed_ to run on compressed air. Basket presses are
not.

Tom S