What does everyone here use for sanitizing? I've been using bleach
and One Step cleanser. I've heard sulphites are best but I don't know
where to buy them.

Thanks for any help
e-spice

On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 20:17:19 -0500, e-spice e-spice wrote:

What does everyone here use for sanitizing? I've been using bleach
and One Step cleanser. I've heard sulphites are best but I don't know
where to buy them.

Thanks for any help
e-spice


Well, sulphites are NOT best. There are stronger/better sanitizers
available. I believe that Iodophor is stronger, and it does not have
the awful sulphurous smell.

Sodium metabisulphite is available at wine supple stores.

Steve

I have some Iodophor but I had heard it was better for beer making,
not wine making.

-e

On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 20:18:34 -0800, Steve Waller
wrote:

On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 20:17:19 -0500, e-spice e-spice wrote:

What does everyone here use for sanitizing? I've been using bleach
and One Step cleanser. I've heard sulphites are best but I don't know
where to buy them.

Thanks for any help
e-spice


Well, sulphites are NOT best. There are stronger/better sanitizers
available. I believe that Iodophor is stronger, and it does not have
the awful sulphurous smell.

Sodium metabisulphite is available at wine supple stores.

Steve

e-spice wrote in message
...
I have some Iodophor but I had heard it was better for beer making,
not wine making.

If it's good for beer making it is certainly good for winemaking.

My personal preference is a product called Star San from 5 Star Chemicals.
It is an acid based sanitizer, easy to use, works quickly (2 min contact),
does not need to be rinsed off or dried, stores well in solution in a
covered container for months. I generally mix up a 5 gallon bucket's worth
(1 oz of Star San) to have on hand for soaking. It foams like crazy but you
don't need to worry about leaving the foam behind. It will not affect the
taste, aroma or fermentation.

Here in Canada, it can be ordered from Paddock Wood
http://www.paddockwood.com/catalog_chemicals.html

I don't know who carries it in the States.

Brian

Personally, I'm a bleach fan, but it's hard to work with (eats your
clothes or any other organic exposed to it)( oh, and hard to rinse).
I was wondering about using oxyclean. Any one play with this?


Jim L.

"jim l" wrote in message
om...
Personally, I'm a bleach fan, but it's hard to work with (eats your
clothes or any other organic exposed to it)( oh, and hard to rinse).

Then why are you a fan? The only good thing that can be said about bleach
is, it's cheap. Iodophor and Star San (my personal choice) are both very
effective sanitizers that are much less hassle to deal with.

I was wondering about using oxyclean. Any one play with this?

OxyClean is a cleaner, not a sanitizer, and I'm told does a good job. For
winemaking purposes, it is probably sufficient. Brewers should use an actual
sanitizer.

Brian

"Brian Lundeen" wrote:
...The only good thing that can be said about bleach
is, it's cheap. Iodophor and Star San (my personal choice) are both very
effective sanitizers that are much less hassle to deal with.

Where is the "hassle" in using bleach? It's not that difficult to avoid
splashing it on clothing and carpeting, and it does a good job ---
inexpensively. It needs to be rinsed off well, but (IMO) so do the ones
that _say_ they don't.

OxyClean is a cleaner, not a sanitizer, and I'm told does a good job. For
winemaking purposes, it is probably sufficient. Brewers should use an
actual
sanitizer.

Why? If the equipment is washed and rinsed thoroughly, no bacteria should
remain. I.e. there should be nothing to "sanitize". Properly used, soap and
water is just as effective as the more expensive "anti-bacterial"
"sanitizers".

I clean with soap and water and use an oxyclean-type product for tough
jobs, and then sanitize with iodophor and occasionally bleach.

Soap and water only removes dirt and grime so sanitizers can get in to
do their work. Soap will not kill all bacteria, germs, etc.

I keep seeing the rumor here that iodophor is ok for beer making but
not wine, but no one seems to be able to back this up with any facts
or references. Anyone?

"Negodki" wrote in message
...
Where is the "hassle" in using bleach? It's not that difficult to avoid
splashing it on clothing and carpeting, and it does a good job ---
inexpensively. It needs to be rinsed off well, but (IMO) so do the ones
that _say_ they don't.

Ahh, a cynic. Well, believe what you want, many thousands of homebrewers who
do not rinse off their no-rinse sanitizers with no ill effects will disagree
with you.

As for bleach, the hassle comes from requiring longer contact times, and
having to rinse well. Over the years I have heard more complaints of
problems from improper use of bleach than any other sanitizer. Star San is
effective, affordable, easy to use, and has no risk (if directions are
followed) of adversely affecting the taste or aroma of the wine, or
fermentation capabilities of the yeast. Just because something is good,
doesn't mean that something else can't be better.

Why? If the equipment is washed and rinsed thoroughly, no bacteria should
remain. I.e. there should be nothing to "sanitize". Properly used, soap
and
water is just as effective as the more expensive "anti-bacterial"
"sanitizers".

As I said, for winemaking purposes clean is sufficient. Sulfites in the
wine, the lower pH and higher alcohol levels, all contribute to making it
resistant to any bacteria that might remain. Move into the world of beer,
you might find the results less desirable..

Brian

"Miker" wrote in message
om...

I keep seeing the rumor here that iodophor is ok for beer making but
not wine, but no one seems to be able to back this up with any facts
or references. Anyone?

I don't understand how that could possibly be. It sanitizes better than a
sulfite rinse, which is what many winemakers use. I've seen it argued the
other way, that sulfites aren't a good enough sanitizer for use in brewing.

Brian

Miker wrote "I keep seeing the rumor here that iodophor is ok for beer
making but
not wine, but no one seems to be able to back this up with any facts or
references. Anyone?"

There's nothing wrong with using iodophor to sanitize wine bottles. Use the
proper dilution, drain well and all you have left is a few drops of dilute
iodophor at most. In beer making (oops...almost used the brewing
word...wouldn't want to confuse anyone) circles there have been plenty of
experiments conducted to see if iodophor residue can be detected. The short
answer is no.

Now, I've observed an interesting thing with iodophor. In the past I would
sanitize beer bottles, empty and let the bottles drip dry overnight. The
next evening the bottles were totally dry. I would prime and fill beer into
these bottles. My usual routine is to drink a beer and immediately rinse
the bottle so they don't build up residue and become hard to clean (same for
wine bottles). I noticed a thin film on the bottle wall of iodophor
sanitized bottles that had been dried overnight. This "problem" was traced
back to the complete drying...a thin film of iodophor remained in these
bottles. It's unsightly to pour a beer and have flakes of film end up in
your otherwise perfect pilsner. So, now days, when I use iodophor, I treat
the bottles, drain well and fill immediately with beer. That way any
iodophor residue is dissolved in the beer and no film is attached to the
bottle wall.

Sorry to bring up a beer subject but the I expect the same "problem" would
develop if you happen to treat wine bottles with iodophor and let them
totally dry before filling with wine.

Actually I don't sanitize wine bottles at all anymore. If you clean wine
bottles well after use and store them inverted, the alcohol, low pH and
sulfite is adequate to protect your wine.

Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas

iodophor

Brian, I can't find the threads that brought this up, but I think some
people were arguing that iodophor affects the flavor of wine (unlike
beer) even in very low concentrations. No one seems to be able to back
this up, however.

I'm like you, Bill. I clean both wine and beer bottles as soon as
they're empty. I'm not so worried about sanitizing wine bottles for
the reasons you mention, but I do run them through the dishwasher on
the hot dry cycle before bottling just as I do with beer bottles. (By
the way, I didn't know "beer" and "brew" were considered four letter
words on this forum)

I use iodophor to sanitize carboys before use and for sanitizing
racking canes, hoses and other stuff before and after racking, but to
tell you the truth I always rinse them in hot water even though I know
its not necessary. Maybe this defeats the purpose of this no-rinse
sanitizer, but it seems to work for me.

Ahh, a cynic.

Ahh, a believer. There's more than one in every graveyard.
If a product is called no-rinse and kills things, I'd rinse!

The beauty of chlorine is that it's actually recommended
for sterilizing water in the backwoods. The same goes for
iodine, so I'd trust products based on that as well.

Like a friend said, "I didn't get this cynical all by my
myself".

Don S

Don, that just shows your ignorance of the chemistry. No rinse sanitizers
are designed to break down once there's little volume left. With Iodophor, I
believe the Iodine combines and dissipates as a gas. I can't say how Star
San works but it works on the same theory (becoming innocuous after the
volume of solution has been removed).

Chlorine can cause some nasty off flavors with very low taste thresholds in
brewing. I don't know if it takes the boiling temps of brewing to bring them
out or if they will affect wines. I do know that you need higher
concentrations, longer contact times and a complete dry or rinse to remove
the chlorine. Iodophor and StarSan don't require a rinse.

-Danno
--
email me at s_danno at msn dot com
---------------------------------------------------------


"Don S" wrote in message
om...
Ahh, a cynic.

Ahh, a believer. There's more than one in every graveyard.
If a product is called no-rinse and kills things, I'd rinse!

The beauty of chlorine is that it's actually recommended
for sterilizing water in the backwoods. The same goes for
iodine, so I'd trust products based on that as well.

Like a friend said, "I didn't get this cynical all by my
myself".

Don S

There is a significant difference between the "chemistry" claimed by the
manufacturers of such products and reality. Chlorine bleach (actually sodium
hypochlorite) is inexpensive, effective, and rinses out easily. Rinse water
is cheap as well. If you are happy with "no-rinse" products, and are not
bothered by the measurable residuals left by those products, fine. I'd
rather rinse, and (since I'm rinsing anyway) use an inexpensive solution.

"danno" wrote in message
...
Don, that just shows your ignorance of the chemistry. No rinse sanitizers
are designed to break down once there's little volume left. With Iodophor,
I
believe the Iodine combines and dissipates as a gas. I can't say how Star
San works but it works on the same theory (becoming innocuous after the
volume of solution has been removed).

Chlorine can cause some nasty off flavors with very low taste thresholds
in
brewing. I don't know if it takes the boiling temps of brewing to bring
them
out or if they will affect wines. I do know that you need higher
concentrations, longer contact times and a complete dry or rinse to remove
the chlorine. Iodophor and StarSan don't require a rinse.

-Danno
--
email me at s_danno at msn dot com
---------------------------------------------------------


"Don S" wrote in message
om...
Ahh, a cynic.

Ahh, a believer. There's more than one in every graveyard.
If a product is called no-rinse and kills things, I'd rinse!

The beauty of chlorine is that it's actually recommended
for sterilizing water in the backwoods. The same goes for
iodine, so I'd trust products based on that as well.

Like a friend said, "I didn't get this cynical all by my
myself".

Don S