"Jack Schmidling" wrote:

Question is: what percent sugar is considered sweet? Like how sweet is a
Port wine?

The sensation of sweetness varies with acidity and alcohol level, and
becomes noticeable at about 0.75-1% residual sugar. Port wines typically
have 9 to 10 percent residual sugar, and alcohol levels of 18 to 20 percent.
"Specially sweetened" Concord wines have about 36 % sugar, and taste like
something one might put on pancakes.

On 11/2/03 12:20 PM, in article 3fa54c77$0$17172$afc38c87@, "Jack
Schmidling" wrote:

I am about to order a refractometer but can't seem to find the answer to a
basic question in the catalogs.

Obviously, I can measure the sugar content of the must or mash but can I
measure the sugar content after it starts fermenting?

In other words, is it affected by the presence of alcohol like a hydrometer
is?


From what I understand, a refractomer is only accurate on unfermented juice.

Just curious-I don't see Jack Schmidling's original post concerning
refractometers. Did it appear in the list of posts to r.c.w. on November
2, 2003?
Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas

"Negodki" wrote in message
...
"Jack Schmidling" wrote:

Question is: what percent sugar is considered sweet? Like how sweet is
a
Port wine?

The sensation of sweetness varies with acidity and alcohol level, and
becomes noticeable at about 0.75-1% residual sugar. Port wines typically
have 9 to 10 percent residual sugar, and alcohol levels of 18 to 20
percent.
"Specially sweetened" Concord wines have about 36 % sugar, and taste like
something one might put on pancakes.

"William Frazier" wrote in message
...
Just curious-I don't see Jack Schmidling's original post concerning
refractometers. Did it appear in the list of posts to r.c.w. on November
2, 2003?
Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas

Bill, here is the text of Jack's post. For some reason it doesn't appear in
the archives. Negodki.

Jack Schmidling" wrote in message
news:3fa54c77$0$17172$afc38c87@...
I am about to order a refractometer but can't seem to find the answer to a
basic question in the catalogs.

Obviously, I can measure the sugar content of the must or mash but can I
measure the sugar content after it starts fermenting?

In other words, is it affected by the presence of alcohol like a
hydrometer
is?

..........................

I made a small batch of raspberry wine this year and it really is an
interesting wine. The raspberry flavor really roars out.

I think it will be best as a fairly sweet wine so I am adding a little
sugar
at a time to coax it along.

Question is: what percent sugar is considered sweet? Like how sweet is a
Port wine?

This of course is why I am interested in the use of a refractometer at
this
point, to take the guess out of it.

js

This message sent from google....

As a point of interest, shopping around, I found a 0-32, ATC
refractometer for $39.95 at Valley Vinters 925 373 1688. At that
price, it doesn't much matter if it does everything I want.

After reading the info on alcohol and sugear testing, it occured to me
that all one had to do is boil a small sample of wine to get rid of
the alcohol and then top up the sample with distilled water. Bit of a
pain but still easier than dealing with large hydrometer samples which
don't realy work anyway.

...........


"Negodki"

Just curious-I don't see Jack Schmidling's original post concerning
refractometers......

I seem to have this problem with usenet. Most of my posts never get
to most
readers and the only way they get responses is if someone who does get
it
responds and quotes my original. This has been going on for a couple
of
years and it makes participating in usnet nearly useless.

I have the same problem on r.c.b. and hardly bother joining anymore.

When I have something really "profound" to say, I post it to google
groups
and everyone seems to get it.

Doubt if there is any connection, but I note that your return email is
hotmail and my spam blocker blocks all hotmail as it it 99.9% porno
spam.

Just for drill, I will post this from google so let me know if you get
either.

js

--
PHOTO OF THE WEEK http://schmidling.netfirms.com/weekly.htm
HOME: Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Sausage, Videos
http://schmidling.netfirms.com

Hello Jack - I didn't see your orgininal post so Negodki was nice enough to
post your questions.
That's a great price for a refractometer. Your boil and replace technique
is interesting and will probably get you close to the actual SG. Why not do
some side-by-side tests and report back.

With respect to sweetness The American Wine Society suggests that a sweet
wine should contain 3.1 to 6% residual sugar (specific gravity 1.012 to
1.024). Of course, perceived sweetness depends on your taster.

There is a method and formula that may allow direct use of a refractometer
to measure specific gravity of a fermenting must. This formula was proposed
by Louis Bonham on the HBD back in 1999. I worked with the formula a bit
years ago but I'm not sure how good the calculated SG agrees with the actual
SG. Again, some experiments would be in order.

BTW, my grain mill is still going strong in it's third year. Nice machine.

Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas







Louis Bonham's equation for the specific gravity calculation is given
below:


SG=1.001843-0.002318474(OG)-0.000007775(OG^2)-0.000000034(OG^3)+0.00574(AG)+

0.00003344(AG^2)+0.000000086(AG^3)

Definitions:
SG estimated specific gravity of the sample ^2 = squared
OG Original gravity of the batch (in Brix) ^3 = cubed
AG Apparent Gravity of the sample (in Brix)

"Jack Schmidling" wrote in message
news:3fa66204$0$25753$afc38c87@...
I seem to have this problem with usenet. Most of my posts never get to
most
readers and the only way they get responses is if someone who does get it
responds and quotes my original. This has been going on for a couple of
years and it makes participating in usnet nearly useless.
I have the same problem on r.c.b. and hardly bother joining anymore.

I suspect the problem is with your newswriter, or with your ISP's interface
to that writer. You might contact them and describe the problem. Perhaps
there is a local solution.

When I have something really "profound" to say, I post it to google groups
and everyone seems to get it.

Problem there is it can take up to 9 hours for a message posted via google
to show up. Messages posted to google groups go directly to through their
web site (and from there to the various newsreaders), and do not use your
newswriter to post.

Doubt if there is any connection, but I note that your return email is
hotmail and my spam blocker blocks all hotmail as it it 99.9% porno spam.

Although that might prevent you from receiving my messages, it shouldn't
prevent _your_ messages from being posted --- unless you have some sort of
outgoing message filtering?

Just for drill, I will post this from google so let me know if you get
either.

I received both.

That's what I have always heard as well, but check out this article on
using a Refractometer in all stages of winemaking:

http://valleyvintner.com/Refrac_Hydro/Refract_Hydro.htm

-David

Greg Cook wrote in message .. .
On 11/2/03 12:20 PM, in article 3fa54c77$0$17172$afc38c87@, "Jack
Schmidling" wrote:

I am about to order a refractometer but can't seem to find the answer to a
basic question in the catalogs.

Obviously, I can measure the sugar content of the must or mash but can I
measure the sugar content after it starts fermenting?

In other words, is it affected by the presence of alcohol like a hydrometer
is?


From what I understand, a refractomer is only accurate on unfermented juice.

"Jack Schmidling" wrote in message
om...
After reading the info on alcohol and sugear testing, it occured to me
that all one had to do is boil a small sample of wine to get rid of
the alcohol and then top up the sample with distilled water. Bit of a
pain but still easier than dealing with large hydrometer samples which
don't realy work anyway.

Where did you get the idea that a hydrometer wouldn't work for this
application? Although I have a refractometer, I've used a hydrometer for
measuring Brix during fermentation for many years. It's quite easy to do,
and as accurate as it needs to be, which is ±1° Brix.

Your suggestion re boiling a sample to drive off the alcohol and adding back
water before measuring would surely work, and give you better precision, but
why do you need such precision in mid-fermentation? Numbers within a degree
or so are close enough at that point.

Tom S

(David D.) wrote in message om...
That's what I have always heard as well, but check out this article on
using a Refractometer in all stages of winemaking:

http://valleyvintner.com/Refrac_Hydro/Refract_Hydro.htm

-David


Thanks for the link, David. Great to be able to look at the results
from an actual comparison.

Interestingly enough if you look at their spreadsheet, the biggest
discrepancy between hydrometer and refractometer is at the beginnings
of fermentation before much alcohol has been produced. Their notes
suggest that this may be due to the excessive foaming during this
period making it difficult to get an accurate hydrometer reading
(couldn't they have driven off the CO2 somehow before reading?). Maybe
the refractometer is actually more accurate at these early stages when
readings are difficult with the hydrometer??

Miker

"Negodki" wrote in message ...

Andy,
These are the headers from Jack's original post, which did not get
archived (nor did it show up on Bill's newsreader). [I save received
newsgroup messages locally for 7 days, which is why it is still available to
me.] I don't see anything in the headers that would keep it from posting.
Do you?


Snip

No, I don't.

It could be that the server he's using is black listed for some reason.

Andy

On 3 Nov 2003, Jack Schmidling wrote:
As a point of interest, shopping around, I found a 0-32, ATC
refractometer for $39.95 at Valley Vinters 925 373 1688. At that
price, it doesn't much matter if it does everything I want.
I spent the extra $10 and got the professional model. It's
really sturdy.
Warren Place