Hello,

I'm posting this quesiton for my father (who makes some pretty darn
good wine in my opinion!) He's trying an oak barrel this time around,
and he is trying to find out how best to sterilize the barrel. He
thinks if he uses the usual sterilizers, there will be an aftertaste
left in the wood. Any suggestions? Thanks!

Frank Bell

Francis Bell wrote:

I'm posting this quesiton for my father (who makes some pretty darn
good wine in my opinion!) He's trying an oak barrel this time around,
and he is trying to find out how best to sterilize the barrel. He
thinks if he uses the usual sterilizers, there will be an aftertaste
left in the wood. Any suggestions? Thanks!

You can't sterilize a barrel... if the barrel is of sound history and
smells alright, it will need to be swelled with water before use. This
is all that needs to be done if it's a new barrel.

If it's a used _wine_ barrel, it's advaisable to fill it with a citric
acid & sulfite solution prior to use. Anything else and you risk ruining
the barrel. However, if your father knows the barrel's history and it
doesn't smell like vinegar on the inside, I would wager a simply
swelling would be fine... most sterilization treatements are pretty
harsh on the wood we pay so much for, so I advocate the gentlest of
treatements for barrels.

--
charles

"Once ... in the wilds of Afghanistan, I lost my corkscrew, and we were
forced to live on nothing but food and water for days."
- W.C. Fields

Thanks Charles! I'll pass that on. He's got a batch of grapes he's
smashing right now. He also asked me this morning to ask if you
(anyone) has any advice on making wine the old fashioned way. He
doesn't add any yeast or anything up front - just pick the grapes and
remove them from the vine, smash em, and let em ferment for a week.
Then he strains the juice and proceeds to the next step. I'm not real
sure yet what that is, this will be my first time having the
opportunity to make it with him. I'm looking forward to it. Thanks
again Charles!

Frank

On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:25:42 -0400, Charles H
wrote:

Francis Bell wrote:

I'm posting this quesiton for my father (who makes some pretty darn
good wine in my opinion!) He's trying an oak barrel this time around,
and he is trying to find out how best to sterilize the barrel. He
thinks if he uses the usual sterilizers, there will be an aftertaste
left in the wood. Any suggestions? Thanks!

You can't sterilize a barrel... if the barrel is of sound history and
smells alright, it will need to be swelled with water before use. This
is all that needs to be done if it's a new barrel.

If it's a used _wine_ barrel, it's advaisable to fill it with a citric
acid & sulfite solution prior to use. Anything else and you risk ruining
the barrel. However, if your father knows the barrel's history and it
doesn't smell like vinegar on the inside, I would wager a simply
swelling would be fine... most sterilization treatements are pretty
harsh on the wood we pay so much for, so I advocate the gentlest of
treatements for barrels.

Francis Bell wrote:

Thanks Charles! I'll pass that on. He's got a batch of grapes he's
smashing right now. He also asked me this morning to ask if you
(anyone) has any advice on making wine the old fashioned way. He
doesn't add any yeast or anything up front - just pick the grapes and
remove them from the vine, smash em, and let em ferment for a week.
Then he strains the juice and proceeds to the next step. I'm not real
sure yet what that is, this will be my first time having the
opportunity to make it with him. I'm looking forward to it. Thanks
again Charles!

No problem. I'm sure some others will chime in with different or better
advice... I haven't been at this as long as some folks who post here G

In regards to doing it "the old fashioned way" I personally like the
safety of cultured yeasts, but there are certainly some convincing
arguments for wild yeasts.

Things such as pH/acid testing, checking brix, etc are all things that
are certainly helpful in making better wine, however I'm sure your
father has a well developed sense of taste that helps him do this. I
suppose it comes down to how satisfied your father is with his wine...


--
charles

"Once ... in the wilds of Afghanistan, I lost my corkscrew, and we were
forced to live on nothing but food and water for days."
- W.C. Fields

Frank-I think it's OK to crush the grapes with foot power...I did it that
way for years. But, at a minimum I think he should drop by the homebrew
shop and by some cultured wine yeast. The shop keepers should be able to
help him decide on a yeast for the type grapes you are working with. Unless
you live in a famous winemaking region the local yeasts may not be up to the
job of completing fermentation and _ why_ take a chance on ruining your
wine.

Here's a great resource for all types of winemaking -
http://home.att.net/~lumeisenman/index.html
And here's a bonus. Lum is one of the resident experts on
rec.crafts.winemaking. You can post a question about anything associated
with winemaking and he will give you an answer. Not to single out
Lum...there are many who post here on r.c.w. that are very willing to help
out.

Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas


"Francis Bell" wrote in message
...
Thanks Charles! I'll pass that on. He's got a batch of grapes he's
smashing right now. He also asked me this morning to ask if you
(anyone) has any advice on making wine the old fashioned way. He
doesn't add any yeast or anything up front - just pick the grapes and
remove them from the vine, smash em, and let em ferment for a week.
Then he strains the juice and proceeds to the next step. I'm not real
sure yet what that is, this will be my first time having the
opportunity to make it with him. I'm looking forward to it. Thanks
again Charles!

Frank

On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:25:42 -0400, Charles H
wrote:

Francis Bell wrote:

I'm posting this quesiton for my father (who makes some pretty darn
good wine in my opinion!) He's trying an oak barrel this time around,
and he is trying to find out how best to sterilize the barrel. He
thinks if he uses the usual sterilizers, there will be an aftertaste
left in the wood. Any suggestions? Thanks!

You can't sterilize a barrel... if the barrel is of sound history and
smells alright, it will need to be swelled with water before use. This
is all that needs to be done if it's a new barrel.

If it's a used _wine_ barrel, it's advaisable to fill it with a citric
acid & sulfite solution prior to use. Anything else and you risk ruining
the barrel. However, if your father knows the barrel's history and it
doesn't smell like vinegar on the inside, I would wager a simply
swelling would be fine... most sterilization treatements are pretty
harsh on the wood we pay so much for, so I advocate the gentlest of
treatements for barrels.

I'm posting this quesiton for my father (who makes some pretty darn
good wine in my opinion!) He's trying an oak barrel this time around,
and he is trying to find out how best to sterilize the barrel. He
thinks if he uses the usual sterilizers, there will be an aftertaste
left in the wood. Any suggestions? Thanks!

My father probably made wine the same way as your father. He would
light a small piece of sulfur and hang it on a metal wire inside the
oak barrel. I still remember the choking smell. He would do this a
day before adding wine to the barrel and after washing the barrel. He
was also concerned with cleanliness with all his supplies and wine
bottles, always washing and rewashing with very hot water. He made
great wine too. I'm still drinking some of his '96 wine which has
held up well. The Brix on the wine he made was around 23 degrees.

"Francis Bell" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I'm posting this quesiton for my father (who makes some pretty darn
good wine in my opinion!) He's trying an oak barrel this time around,
and he is trying to find out how best to sterilize the barrel. He
thinks if he uses the usual sterilizers, there will be an aftertaste
left in the wood. Any suggestions?

Assuming that this is a new barrel, it doesn't require sterilizing. Fill it
with cold water to check for leaks, dump the water when it stops leaking and
fill it with wine immediately. Buy a silicone bung for the barrel. Don't
use a wooden bung. They tend to crack the bung stave, and they don't seal
as well.

It's very important to (a) keep the sulfite level of the wine at the correct
level, and (b) keep the barrel topped up. I recommend weekly tasting,
sniffing and topping to assure quality. Over time, the wine evaporates
through the staves causing the level in the barrel to drop. Also, the free
SO2 in the wine will slowly drop as the sulfite becomes oxidized to sulfate.
It's not unusual to have to add sulfite a couple of times per year.

Tom S

Just in case you're using a second hand barrel, you will want to kill off as
much of the bugs as possible (Brettanomyces, Acetobacter...). A winemaking
consultant from WineNet (he's on the management committee of our winery)
told me recently that some research has shown that completely filling the
barrel with 80°C water and leaving for around 15 minutes will significantly
reduce the microbial load, even killing Brett. You will never kill all of
them, and as Tom S stated, there is no substitute for surveillance.

This technique will also remove some oak flavour, but wineries generally
sell old barrels for two reasons: either they're too old and have no flavour
left, or they are showing signs of fouling. If the barrel has been sold for
the first reason, then you're not losing any oak flavour. If the second
reason, then you want to be absolutely sure you're killing everything. So
you can't go wrong.

Please don't use this technique on a new barrel! It is unneccessary.
However, we do chuck in around 30L of very hot water, roll it around and
then leave the barrel on one end for 20 minutes, before rolling it over and
leaving it on the other end. Similar to Tom S's suggestion, this will swell
the wood to prevent leaks. The technique is recommended by Tonnellerie
Radoux, and by a couple of other coopers that I can't remember right now (I
think one is Taransaud). You will lose some oak flavour, but not a lot - it
just smells like it!

Cheers,

Andrew

"Francis Bell" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I'm posting this quesiton for my father (who makes some pretty darn
good wine in my opinion!) He's trying an oak barrel this time around,
and he is trying to find out how best to sterilize the barrel. He
thinks if he uses the usual sterilizers, there will be an aftertaste
left in the wood. Any suggestions? Thanks!

Frank Bell

Wow, thank you all for the input! I'm copying and pasting them all
into a separate document to give to my dad, and I'm sure he'll
appreciate it. This is a great group, and I'll be perusing for advice
and tips. Thanks again!!

Frank

On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 06:57:12 GMT, "Andrew L Drumm"
wrote:

Just in case you're using a second hand barrel, you will want to kill off as
much of the bugs as possible (Brettanomyces, Acetobacter...). A winemaking
consultant from WineNet (he's on the management committee of our winery)
told me recently that some research has shown that completely filling the
barrel with 80°C water and leaving for around 15 minutes will significantly
reduce the microbial load, even killing Brett. You will never kill all of
them, and as Tom S stated, there is no substitute for surveillance.

This technique will also remove some oak flavour, but wineries generally
sell old barrels for two reasons: either they're too old and have no flavour
left, or they are showing signs of fouling. If the barrel has been sold for
the first reason, then you're not losing any oak flavour. If the second
reason, then you want to be absolutely sure you're killing everything. So
you can't go wrong.

Please don't use this technique on a new barrel! It is unneccessary.
However, we do chuck in around 30L of very hot water, roll it around and
then leave the barrel on one end for 20 minutes, before rolling it over and
leaving it on the other end. Similar to Tom S's suggestion, this will swell
the wood to prevent leaks. The technique is recommended by Tonnellerie
Radoux, and by a couple of other coopers that I can't remember right now (I
think one is Taransaud). You will lose some oak flavour, but not a lot - it
just smells like it!

Cheers,

Andrew

"Francis Bell" wrote in message
.. .
Hello,

I'm posting this quesiton for my father (who makes some pretty darn
good wine in my opinion!) He's trying an oak barrel this time around,
and he is trying to find out how best to sterilize the barrel. He
thinks if he uses the usual sterilizers, there will be an aftertaste
left in the wood. Any suggestions? Thanks!

Frank Bell