I'm back with another newbie question concerning a merlot kit wine from Brew
King.

The primary fermentation went well. SG was at 1.002 after 5 days. I then
racked into the secondary. Kit directions indicate that I should let it sit
for 10 days. The bubbles in the airlock were occuring every couple of
seconds at first. Now, after 3 days, a bubble happens every 45 seconds or
so. I'm inclined to think this is all normal, but wanted to check.

One reason I am a little concerned is that there is a fair amount of air
space in the carboy. Someone in this newsgroup mentioned that space is fine
as long as there was plenty of CO2. Is there enough still? How can I tell
when there is not enough? Should I disregard directions, check the SG to
see if it has stabilized at the right level a week early and rack again if
indicated?

By the way, the temperature is about 76F.

Thanks once again for your help
Dave

"Dave" wrote:
I'm back with another newbie question concerning a merlot kit wine from
Brew
King.

The primary fermentation went well. SG was at 1.002 after 5 days. I then
racked into the secondary. Kit directions indicate that I should let it
sit
for 10 days. The bubbles in the airlock were occuring every couple of
seconds at first. Now, after 3 days, a bubble happens every 45 seconds or
so. I'm inclined to think this is all normal, but wanted to check.

One reason I am a little concerned is that there is a fair amount of air
space in the carboy. Someone in this newsgroup mentioned that space is
fine
as long as there was plenty of CO2. Is there enough still? How can I
tell
when there is not enough? Should I disregard directions, check the SG to
see if it has stabilized at the right level a week early and rack again if
indicated?

By the way, the temperature is about 76F.

It is perfectly normal for the airlock activity to slow down as you
describe. It wouldn't hurt to top up to within an inch or two of the bottom
of the airlock now. However, I see no reason to rack early. For that matter,
I wouldn't rack until about one month after the airlock activity ceases
completely, no matter what the kit instructions say.

Checking the SG won't help. How do you know what the "right level" is? It
will be somewhere between 990-995 depending on the amount of (non-sugar)
solids. Cessation of airlock activity is the best indication if you don't
have a clinitest kit or equivalent to test residual sugar.

By the way, the temperature is about 76F.

Not here. It's been almost 95 in the shade.

Hi Negodki,

You mention waiting a month no matter what the kit says. I thought I'd ask
about that. The kit directions are

1. Primary for 5-7 days.
2. Rack
3. Secondary for 10-12 days.
4. Rack. Add sorbate, metabisulfate, and chitosan.
5. Stabilize for 10 days
6. Rack.
7. Clarify for 28 days
8. Rack.
9. Bulk age for 6 months or so

Right now I am on step #3. Would you still wait a month before adding in
the chemicals from step 4?

Thanks,
Dave

"Negodki" wrote in message
...
"Dave" wrote:
I'm back with another newbie question concerning a merlot kit wine from
Brew
King.

The primary fermentation went well. SG was at 1.002 after 5 days. I
then
racked into the secondary. Kit directions indicate that I should let it
sit
for 10 days. The bubbles in the airlock were occuring every couple of
seconds at first. Now, after 3 days, a bubble happens every 45 seconds
or
so. I'm inclined to think this is all normal, but wanted to check.

One reason I am a little concerned is that there is a fair amount of air
space in the carboy. Someone in this newsgroup mentioned that space is
fine
as long as there was plenty of CO2. Is there enough still? How can I
tell
when there is not enough? Should I disregard directions, check the SG
to
see if it has stabilized at the right level a week early and rack again
if
indicated?

By the way, the temperature is about 76F.

It is perfectly normal for the airlock activity to slow down as you
describe. It wouldn't hurt to top up to within an inch or two of the
bottom
of the airlock now. However, I see no reason to rack early. For that
matter,
I wouldn't rack until about one month after the airlock activity ceases
completely, no matter what the kit instructions say.

Checking the SG won't help. How do you know what the "right level" is? It
will be somewhere between 990-995 depending on the amount of (non-sugar)
solids. Cessation of airlock activity is the best indication if you don't
have a clinitest kit or equivalent to test residual sugar.

By the way, the temperature is about 76F.

Not here. It's been almost 95 in the shade.

"Dave" wrote:

Hi Negodki,

You mention waiting a month no matter what the kit says. I thought I'd
ask
about that. The kit directions are

1. Primary for 5-7 days.
2. Rack
3. Secondary for 10-12 days.
4. Rack. Add sorbate, metabisulfate, and chitosan.
5. Stabilize for 10 days
6. Rack.
7. Clarify for 28 days
8. Rack.
9. Bulk age for 6 months or so

Right now I am on step #3. Would you still wait a month before adding in
the chemicals from step 4?

Yes. I don't understand the point of only allowing it to stay in the
secondary for 10-12 days. Fermentation MIGHT stop in that period, or it
might continue for longer. With a red wine, I always wait about a month
AFTER fermentation halts before racking. Otherwise, you will need an
additional (and unnecessary) racking. After 12 days, very little sediment
will have precipitated, and (IMO) this is a wasted racking.

Similarly, I don't understand step 4. Sorbate is only needed when one wishes
to prevent residual (or added) sugar from fermenting. A Merlot should be
fermented to dryness and not sweetened, and there should be no need for the
sorbate. Chitosan is used to clear wine. Red wine shouldn't need any.

Once again, Step 5 seems premature. I wait several MONTHS between rackings.
Otherwise there is either nothing to rack, or another racking is needed
immediately. And, if there is nothing to rack (i.e. no sediment build up), I
don't.

But, I've never worked with kits. As strange as the instructions seem to me,
you may be better off following them. But they do seem very strange.

I just stabilized a wine that I started in February. I wanted to skip
that step because the wine looks and tastes fine, but I followed the
directions, put in the meta, did the sorbate and racked off to carboy
for final rest before bottling. So far, extra time has not had a
negative effect on any wine I have completed.

"Dave" wrote in message ...
Hi Negodki,

You mention waiting a month no matter what the kit says. I thought I'd ask
about that. The kit directions are

1. Primary for 5-7 days.
2. Rack
3. Secondary for 10-12 days.
4. Rack. Add sorbate, metabisulfate, and chitosan.
5. Stabilize for 10 days
6. Rack.
7. Clarify for 28 days
8. Rack.
9. Bulk age for 6 months or so

Right now I am on step #3. Would you still wait a month before adding in
the chemicals from step 4?

Thanks,
Dave

"Negodki" wrote in message
...
"Dave" wrote:
I'm back with another newbie question concerning a merlot kit wine from
Brew
King.

The primary fermentation went well. SG was at 1.002 after 5 days. I
then
racked into the secondary. Kit directions indicate that I should let it
sit
for 10 days. The bubbles in the airlock were occuring every couple of
seconds at first. Now, after 3 days, a bubble happens every 45 seconds
or
so. I'm inclined to think this is all normal, but wanted to check.

One reason I am a little concerned is that there is a fair amount of air
space in the carboy. Someone in this newsgroup mentioned that space is
fine
as long as there was plenty of CO2. Is there enough still? How can I
tell
when there is not enough? Should I disregard directions, check the SG
to
see if it has stabilized at the right level a week early and rack again
if
indicated?

By the way, the temperature is about 76F.

It is perfectly normal for the airlock activity to slow down as you
describe. It wouldn't hurt to top up to within an inch or two of the
bottom
of the airlock now. However, I see no reason to rack early. For that
matter,
I wouldn't rack until about one month after the airlock activity ceases
completely, no matter what the kit instructions say.

Checking the SG won't help. How do you know what the "right level" is? It
will be somewhere between 990-995 depending on the amount of (non-sugar)
solids. Cessation of airlock activity is the best indication if you don't
have a clinitest kit or equivalent to test residual sugar.

By the way, the temperature is about 76F.

Not here. It's been almost 95 in the shade.

Dave, The safest method when you are brand new is to follow the directions
to the T the first time. The advice you have been given is sound though. The
use of Sorbate in dry wine is just a foolproof way to prevent a
refermentation in the bottle of a wine that may still contain a small amount
of residual sugar. This happens in the kits more often due to the time
schedule being compacted into a month which in normally winemaking is
unrealistic. If all of the sugar is not consumed then the wine can start to
ferment again.
I say follow the directions perfectly this time, and then start
playing around the next time around. The biggest exception I would make is
waiting an extra month if you can stand it before bottling. This will not
only mature the wine, but it will also give it a chance to throw whatever
sediment it might have. However I remember making my first wine and didn't
want to wait an extra month, so it depends on your level of patience. A
strict rule though is once the fermentation is complete then "top up" -
meaning eliminate the vast majority of air space that comes into contact
with the wine. (inch or so) Good luck,
John Dixon
"Michael" wrote in message
om...
I just stabilized a wine that I started in February. I wanted to skip
that step because the wine looks and tastes fine, but I followed the
directions, put in the meta, did the sorbate and racked off to carboy
for final rest before bottling. So far, extra time has not had a
negative effect on any wine I have completed.

"Dave" wrote in message
...
Hi Negodki,

You mention waiting a month no matter what the kit says. I thought I'd
ask
about that. The kit directions are

1. Primary for 5-7 days.
2. Rack
3. Secondary for 10-12 days.
4. Rack. Add sorbate, metabisulfate, and chitosan.
5. Stabilize for 10 days
6. Rack.
7. Clarify for 28 days
8. Rack.
9. Bulk age for 6 months or so

Right now I am on step #3. Would you still wait a month before adding
in
the chemicals from step 4?

Thanks,
Dave

"Negodki" wrote in message
...
"Dave" wrote:
I'm back with another newbie question concerning a merlot kit wine
from
Brew
King.

The primary fermentation went well. SG was at 1.002 after 5 days.
I
then
racked into the secondary. Kit directions indicate that I should
let it
sit
for 10 days. The bubbles in the airlock were occuring every couple
of
seconds at first. Now, after 3 days, a bubble happens every 45
seconds
or
so. I'm inclined to think this is all normal, but wanted to check.

One reason I am a little concerned is that there is a fair amount of
air
space in the carboy. Someone in this newsgroup mentioned that space
is
fine
as long as there was plenty of CO2. Is there enough still? How can
I
tell
when there is not enough? Should I disregard directions, check the
SG
to
see if it has stabilized at the right level a week early and rack
again
if
indicated?

By the way, the temperature is about 76F.

It is perfectly normal for the airlock activity to slow down as you
describe. It wouldn't hurt to top up to within an inch or two of the
bottom
of the airlock now. However, I see no reason to rack early. For that
matter,
I wouldn't rack until about one month after the airlock activity
ceases
completely, no matter what the kit instructions say.

Checking the SG won't help. How do you know what the "right level" is?
It
will be somewhere between 990-995 depending on the amount of
(non-sugar)
solids. Cessation of airlock activity is the best indication if you
don't
have a clinitest kit or equivalent to test residual sugar.

By the way, the temperature is about 76F.

Not here. It's been almost 95 in the shade.

All good advise above so I will try not to repeat it. But I do not think
anyone addressed your question on head space. If the must was fermenting
fairly well for a period of time the CO2 will have displaced any O2 in the
head space so it is perfectly safe as long as you keep a good seal on it.
Now if you break that seal by removing the airlock and testing the wine
after it has pretty much finished fermenting and little new CO2 is being
generated then you should eliminated the head space as it will be
contaminated with O2 and will ruin you wine.

Ray

"Dave" wrote in message
...
I'm back with another newbie question concerning a merlot kit wine from
Brew
King.

The primary fermentation went well. SG was at 1.002 after 5 days. I then
racked into the secondary. Kit directions indicate that I should let it
sit
for 10 days. The bubbles in the airlock were occuring every couple of
seconds at first. Now, after 3 days, a bubble happens every 45 seconds or
so. I'm inclined to think this is all normal, but wanted to check.

One reason I am a little concerned is that there is a fair amount of air
space in the carboy. Someone in this newsgroup mentioned that space is
fine
as long as there was plenty of CO2. Is there enough still? How can I
tell
when there is not enough? Should I disregard directions, check the SG to
see if it has stabilized at the right level a week early and rack again if
indicated?

By the way, the temperature is about 76F.

Thanks once again for your help
Dave

"Ray" wrote in message
...
All good advise above so I will try not to repeat it. But I do not think
anyone addressed your question on head space. If the must was fermenting
fairly well for a period of time the CO2 will have displaced any O2 in the
head space so it is perfectly safe as long as you keep a good seal on it.
Now if you break that seal by removing the airlock and testing the wine
after it has pretty much finished fermenting and little new CO2 is being
generated then you should eliminated the head space as it will be
contaminated with O2 and will ruin you wine.

Ray


Thanks Ray. So simple it even makes sense.
Dave

Thanks John, Michael, and Negodki. I haven't figured out which path I'll
follow, but I'm in no hurry to drink the wine so letting it bulk age for a
while is definately going to happen. I appreciate all the advice and
insight.

Dave

"J Dixon" wrote in message
. net...
Dave, The safest method when you are brand new is to follow the directions
to the T the first time. The advice you have been given is sound though.
The
use of Sorbate in dry wine is just a foolproof way to prevent a
refermentation in the bottle of a wine that may still contain a small
amount
of residual sugar. This happens in the kits more often due to the time
schedule being compacted into a month which in normally winemaking is
unrealistic. If all of the sugar is not consumed then the wine can start
to
ferment again.
I say follow the directions perfectly this time, and then start
playing around the next time around. The biggest exception I would make is
waiting an extra month if you can stand it before bottling. This will not
only mature the wine, but it will also give it a chance to throw whatever
sediment it might have. However I remember making my first wine and didn't
want to wait an extra month, so it depends on your level of patience. A
strict rule though is once the fermentation is complete then "top up" -
meaning eliminate the vast majority of air space that comes into contact
with the wine. (inch or so) Good luck,
John Dixon
"Michael" wrote in message
om...
I just stabilized a wine that I started in February. I wanted to skip
that step because the wine looks and tastes fine, but I followed the
directions, put in the meta, did the sorbate and racked off to carboy
for final rest before bottling. So far, extra time has not had a
negative effect on any wine I have completed.

"Dave" wrote in message
...
Hi Negodki,

You mention waiting a month no matter what the kit says. I thought
I'd
ask
about that. The kit directions are

1. Primary for 5-7 days.
2. Rack
3. Secondary for 10-12 days.
4. Rack. Add sorbate, metabisulfate, and chitosan.
5. Stabilize for 10 days
6. Rack.
7. Clarify for 28 days
8. Rack.
9. Bulk age for 6 months or so

Right now I am on step #3. Would you still wait a month before
adding
in
the chemicals from step 4?

Thanks,
Dave

"Negodki" wrote in message
...
"Dave" wrote:
I'm back with another newbie question concerning a merlot kit wine
from
Brew
King.

The primary fermentation went well. SG was at 1.002 after 5 days.
I
then
racked into the secondary. Kit directions indicate that I should
let it
sit
for 10 days. The bubbles in the airlock were occuring every
couple
of
seconds at first. Now, after 3 days, a bubble happens every 45
seconds
or
so. I'm inclined to think this is all normal, but wanted to
check.

One reason I am a little concerned is that there is a fair amount
of
air
space in the carboy. Someone in this newsgroup mentioned that
space
is
fine
as long as there was plenty of CO2. Is there enough still? How
can
I
tell
when there is not enough? Should I disregard directions, check
the
SG
to
see if it has stabilized at the right level a week early and rack
again
if
indicated?

By the way, the temperature is about 76F.

It is perfectly normal for the airlock activity to slow down as you
describe. It wouldn't hurt to top up to within an inch or two of the
bottom
of the airlock now. However, I see no reason to rack early. For that
matter,
I wouldn't rack until about one month after the airlock activity
ceases
completely, no matter what the kit instructions say.

Checking the SG won't help. How do you know what the "right level"
is?
It
will be somewhere between 990-995 depending on the amount of
(non-sugar)
solids. Cessation of airlock activity is the best indication if you
don't
have a clinitest kit or equivalent to test residual sugar.

By the way, the temperature is about 76F.

Not here. It's been almost 95 in the shade.

Dave --

The time periods mentioned in the instructions are just a frame of
reference... they also say to check the SG before doing anything. If the SG
does not reach the point it should (below 0.995) then let it go longer. Your
best bet is to follow the directions on this one and then, after reading
this newsgroup and the references cited here, experimenting with future kits
to improve your product.

Negodki, remember, this is a kit wine, the standards for wine from whole
grapes are different and the markets are also different. Wine kits are
marketed more toward the beginning winemaker and thus are designed to allow
for mistakes and a lack of patience. The sorbate is added to prevent
fermentation and ensure a still wine in a six week period. You can certainly
allow time to ensure the complete fermentation of the wine, the times
mentioned in the instructions are guidance for a six-week wine.

---------------------------------------------
Mike Polo
remove noharvest. to reply

The word bipartisan usually means some larger-than-usual deception is being
carried out.


George Carlin
"Negodki" wrote in message
...
"Dave" wrote:

Hi Negodki,

You mention waiting a month no matter what the kit says. I thought I'd
ask
about that. The kit directions are

1. Primary for 5-7 days.
2. Rack
3. Secondary for 10-12 days.
4. Rack. Add sorbate, metabisulfate, and chitosan.
5. Stabilize for 10 days
6. Rack.
7. Clarify for 28 days
8. Rack.
9. Bulk age for 6 months or so

Right now I am on step #3. Would you still wait a month before adding
in
the chemicals from step 4?

Yes. I don't understand the point of only allowing it to stay in the
secondary for 10-12 days. Fermentation MIGHT stop in that period, or it
might continue for longer. With a red wine, I always wait about a month
AFTER fermentation halts before racking. Otherwise, you will need an
additional (and unnecessary) racking. After 12 days, very little sediment
will have precipitated, and (IMO) this is a wasted racking.

Similarly, I don't understand step 4. Sorbate is only needed when one
wishes
to prevent residual (or added) sugar from fermenting. A Merlot should be
fermented to dryness and not sweetened, and there should be no need for
the
sorbate. Chitosan is used to clear wine. Red wine shouldn't need any.

Once again, Step 5 seems premature. I wait several MONTHS between
rackings.
Otherwise there is either nothing to rack, or another racking is needed
immediately. And, if there is nothing to rack (i.e. no sediment build up),
I
don't.

But, I've never worked with kits. As strange as the instructions seem to
me,
you may be better off following them. But they do seem very strange.

I have done several Merlot kits. I have one ready for bottling now and started
a Chardonnay and a Merlot last night. The instructions provide are fool proof
..Follow them and you will be pleased.

I have successfully experimented with adding additional sugar to raise the
alcohol level before primary fermintation. I have gotten it as high as 15%. Now
I try to reach 13.5 to 14%. (using about 4 lbs. of sugar). I have begun adding
1/2 cup of French oak for a more defined finish.

I am really enjoying the simplicity of the kits and the quality of wine that
can be achieved. The biggest problem I have is that my friends and family are
also enjoying them.