I usually buy my grapes or juice from the Niagara Region here in Ontario
as I live near the area. Due to a terrible winter that resulted in
damaged vines and very low productivity of most viniferas I bought my
grapes and juices from a dealer that imports from the Sonoma Valley in
California.

I was very surprised to find my Gewurztraminer, Riesling and Pinot Gris
all had very low pH. They were 2.85, 2.60 and 2.57 respectively.
Unfortunately I do not yet know the TA as I am obtaining a new stock
solution of 1% tartaric so I can titrate my NaOH. I expect to know this
in a few days. The starting SG was in the low-average range at with the
Gewurz and Riesling at 1.090 and the Pinot Gris at 1.080 (fairly low).

Were they picked a little on the green sinde. Has anyone else had pH
levels in this range from California grapes.

Any thoughts would be appreciated and I know I can't do much without the
TA. The wines have been in a cool basement for about 2 weeks since
fermentation first started and are now just below 1.000 and of course
are really slowing down.

With thanks,

Glen Duff

"Glen Duff" wrote in message
...
I usually buy my grapes or juice from the Niagara Region here in Ontario
as I live near the area. Due to a terrible winter that resulted in
damaged vines and very low productivity of most viniferas I bought my
grapes and juices from a dealer that imports from the Sonoma Valley in
California.

I was very surprised to find my Gewurztraminer, Riesling and Pinot Gris
all had very low pH. They were 2.85, 2.60 and 2.57 respectively.
Unfortunately I do not yet know the TA as I am obtaining a new stock
solution of 1% tartaric so I can titrate my NaOH. I expect to know this
in a few days. The starting SG was in the low-average range at with the
Gewurz and Riesling at 1.090 and the Pinot Gris at 1.080 (fairly low).

Were they picked a little on the green sinde. Has anyone else had pH
levels in this range from California grapes.

Not since 1985, when the grower threw a fair (unfair?) amount of Emerald
Riesling into my Chardonnay, thinking I wouldn't notice.

Those grapes are clearly not ripe. The Gewurtz & Riesling are barely 21.°
Brix, and the Grigio is about right for making champagne! You're going to
need to acid adjust the juice or wine.

Back in 1985, I used KOH, followed by cold stabilization to drop out the
excess acid. That's pretty drastic and isn't legal for commercial wineries,
but it did the trick. K2CO3 is the officially sanctioned reagent for
deacidification, but all that foaming can get messy.

Any thoughts would be appreciated and I know I can't do much without the
TA.

Forget the TA. Just titrate the pH to something more reasonable, like 3.3
or so. Do it on a sample, chill out the bitartrate and see how it tastes.
Oh, and you might want to give the Brix a touch of the cane...

Tom S

Glen Duff wrote in message ...

--snip
and the Pinot Gris at 1.080 (fairly low).

I think that Tom is right on this. Bring the SG up on this wine or you
will not have something worthwhile in the end. I have had problems
with too low sugar on this kind of grapes too. I did it two ways. Used
the cane and bought some juice. In the end the latter was the way to
go. To me sugar always gives a certain detectable flavor. A small
amount of juice of the same wine made for no unruly taste. I used Brew
King, but I'm sure most others would go as good as well.

SG Brix

Those are odd values for California, this must have been annoying.
(You go to the West coast to get grapes and end up with the same stuff
you could habe gotten here in a few weeks with our awful weather). I
would still measure TA and use taste as a sanity check, but that is
the only step I would add to Tom's guidance. (Tom has been making wine
a lot longer than I; I almost always do exactly what he says....)

I have never seen a pH below 3 from California, but my stuff comes
from the hot Central Valley, if you can't get grapes to ripen there,
you need to grow something else, like bricks...
Regards,
Joe

Glen Duff wrote in message ...
I usually buy my grapes or juice from the Niagara Region here in Ontario
as I live near the area. Due to a terrible winter that resulted in
damaged vines and very low productivity of most viniferas I bought my
grapes and juices from a dealer that imports from the Sonoma Valley in
California.

I was very surprised to find my Gewurztraminer, Riesling and Pinot Gris
all had very low pH. They were 2.85, 2.60 and 2.57 respectively.
Unfortunately I do not yet know the TA as I am obtaining a new stock
solution of 1% tartaric so I can titrate my NaOH. I expect to know this
in a few days. The starting SG was in the low-average range at with the
Gewurz and Riesling at 1.090 and the Pinot Gris at 1.080 (fairly low).

Were they picked a little on the green sinde. Has anyone else had pH
levels in this range from California grapes.

Any thoughts would be appreciated and I know I can't do much without the
TA. The wines have been in a cool basement for about 2 weeks since
fermentation first started and are now just below 1.000 and of course
are really slowing down.

With thanks,

Glen Duff

Considering that pH is a logarithmic scale, those #s between 2.5 and
2.9 seem alarmingly low. Does the juice taste extremely tart? The
only wine/must I've had in that ball park was from little red
crabapples that most people find far too tart to eat (but I enjoy) and
even I found the juice far too tart to be enjoyable, and that was with
a lot of sugar added to make the SG about 1.100. I would be
suspicious that your pH measurements are out of wack, especially if
you find that the juice is not unpleasantly tart.

Good Luck!

Richard

PS. my finished crabapple wine is dry, and just too tart as is. I'll
be trying to sweeten some of it and perhaps do some blending
experiments too...

Glen Duff wrote in message ...
I usually buy my grapes or juice from the Niagara Region here in Ontario
as I live near the area. Due to a terrible winter that resulted in
damaged vines and very low productivity of most viniferas I bought my
grapes and juices from a dealer that imports from the Sonoma Valley in
California.

I was very surprised to find my Gewurztraminer, Riesling and Pinot Gris
all had very low pH. They were 2.85, 2.60 and 2.57 respectively.
Unfortunately I do not yet know the TA as I am obtaining a new stock
solution of 1% tartaric so I can titrate my NaOH. I expect to know this
in a few days. The starting SG was in the low-average range at with the
Gewurz and Riesling at 1.090 and the Pinot Gris at 1.080 (fairly low).

Were they picked a little on the green sinde. Has anyone else had pH
levels in this range from California grapes.

Any thoughts would be appreciated and I know I can't do much without the
TA. The wines have been in a cool basement for about 2 weeks since
fermentation first started and are now just below 1.000 and of course
are really slowing down.

With thanks,

Glen Duff