Check your acid levels closely... Mine were pretty high.

Later,
A.J.

On 30 Sep 2003 02:21:16 -0700, (glad heart) wrote:

>Thanks for your contributions everyone. I'm going to add a few litres
>of organic apple juice (preservative-free) for starters (should I use
>more?). I'll investigate all suggested ideas before I start.

I followed Stanley Anderson's recipe for closely. To make up for the
shortage of crab apples (basis 23 litres) I added to the must 3 x 909
ml Organic Apple Juice from the Health Food Store (no preservatives
added).

After 6 days in the primary there is still no evidence of
fermentation. I've added my third packet of Champagne yeast already
(EC-1118). Question: What gives? Any ideas?

Temp: 20 degrees C.

"glad heart" > wrote:
> I followed Stanley Anderson's recipe for closely. To make up for the
> shortage of crab apples (basis 23 litres) I added to the must 3 x 909
> ml Organic Apple Juice from the Health Food Store (no preservatives
> added).
>
> After 6 days in the primary there is still no evidence of
> fermentation. I've added my third packet of Champagne yeast already
> (EC-1118). Question: What gives? Any ideas?
>
> Temp: 20 degrees C.

Most likely thing is that the "no preservatives added" statement is somewhat
exaggerated, or you oversulfited, or your yeast is no good. And apple must
should burst into activity after 24 hours at the very most. Check the
sulfite levels if you have the proper test kit. Otherwise aerate the must.
Then make a yeast starter (check the recent archives at
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...fts.winemaking
for procedure), so you know the yeast is healthy before adding it to the
must.
While the starter is (hopefully) growing, check the sugar and acid and make
sure both are within limits.

And get the must temperature up to 25C.

Check your acid levels... I had that problem and found the acid level
way too high... I reduced the acid level and it took off.


On 12 Oct 2003 16:32:34 -0700, (glad heart) wrote:

>I followed Stanley Anderson's recipe for closely. To make up for the
>shortage of crab apples (basis 23 litres) I added to the must 3 x 909
>ml Organic Apple Juice from the Health Food Store (no preservatives
>added).
>
>After 6 days in the primary there is still no evidence of
>fermentation. I've added my third packet of Champagne yeast already
>(EC-1118). Question: What gives? Any ideas?
>
>Temp: 20 degrees C.

Thanks fellas for your comments.

Negodki: I've been wondering about sulfite levels too. Anderson's
recipe suggested sprinkling a sulfited water solution over apples
periodically when cutting them up to keep them from turning brown. I
stayed well within his max though. Later, I sanitized the must with a
1/4 tsp sulfite.

I received my new titrets kit and excitedly prepared to test when I
came to learn that in addition to the ampoules and titretor I also
need a valve assembly to draw up the must. So much for testing today.
You'd think they woulda known to set me up with complete kit. I've
been aerating. Thanks.

A.J.: TA reading is 7.9 g/l. Yes, too high, but is that off the map
too high or just not within ideal range. It's odd that Anderson's
recipe would call for addition of acid blend to a tart fruit like crab
apples. Intuitively I wondered so fortunately I used 2/3 of his
recommended addition.

How did you reduce the high acid level in your must? I have CaCO3
kicking around but I didn't know I could use that in the primary.
Maybe I should dump in the NaOH solution from my acid testing kit ;-)
Of course that's a facetious comment but you'd think there would be a
base out there compatible with a wine must that one could use to
easily reduce acidity.

TIA

"glad heart" > wrote:

> Negodki: I've been wondering about sulfite levels too. Anderson's
> recipe suggested sprinkling a sulfited water solution over apples
> periodically when cutting them up to keep them from turning brown. I
> stayed well within his max though. Later, I sanitized the must with a
> 1/4 tsp sulfite.

Citric acid (lemon juice) is used for the same purpose, but neither are
necessary. I've cut up 36 pounds of apples with an apple slicer and knife
without them browning noticeably. But that is also unnecessary. Just put
them in a 5-gallon bucket, and pound them butter-churn style with a (clean
and sterilized) 4x4 post. Or wrap the post in saran-wrap. Much quicker. And
ALWAYS ferment apple on the skins. Gives you the tannin which helps preserve
the wine, and (usually) makes it clear on it's own, and tastes better. (Only
my opinion of course.

> I received my new titrets kit and excitedly prepared to test when I
> came to learn that in addition to the ampoules and titretor I also
> need a valve assembly to draw up the must. So much for testing today.
> You'd think they woulda known to set me up with complete kit. I've
> been aerating. Thanks.

Just add sulfite until you can taste it, and then go back in time and add
half as much.

> It's odd that Anderson's recipe would call for addition of acid blend to a
tart fruit
> like crab apples. Intuitively I wondered so fortunately I used 2/3 of his
> recommended addition.

I've learned recently that there are also "sweet" crab apples!

> How did you reduce the high acid level in your must? I have CaCO3
> kicking around but I didn't know I could use that in the primary.
> Maybe I should dump in the NaOH solution from my acid testing kit ;-)
> Of course that's a facetious comment but you'd think there would be a
> base out there compatible with a wine must that one could use to
> easily reduce acidity.

CaCO3 or K2CO3 are the "preferred" additives for grape wines. I believe both
should be added as soon as possible, as that will leave the least amount of
noticeable flavour. Acid reduction was discussed in several recent threads.
Search the archives at
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...fts.winemaking.

However, with apples, especially with crab-apples, I strongly recommend
dilution with water for acid reduction. Apples have so much flavour that you
can press and do a second run (with the pressings) that has almost as rich a
flavour as the first. If you haven't yet begun the ferment, add the water
and readjust the SG. If you've already begun the ferment, bring the water to
your initial SG before adding it to the must. One part water to five parts
must will reduce the acidity by about 10% (which would reduced a .79 TA to
about .71, which is where you want to be). Although 1:5 is the maximum
dilution I would recommend for grapes, you can add more to apples. I add 1
gallon of water to 12 pounds of apples, and the wine is still robust and
full-bodied!

On 14 Oct 2003 15:35:57 -0700, (glad heart) wrote:

>Thanks fellas for your comments.
>
>A.J.: TA reading is 7.9 g/l. Yes, too high, but is that off the map
>too high or just not within ideal range. It's odd that Anderson's
>recipe would call for addition of acid blend to a tart fruit like crab
>apples. Intuitively I wondered so fortunately I used 2/3 of his
>recommended addition.
>
>How did you reduce the high acid level in your must? I have CaCO3
>kicking around but I didn't know I could use that in the primary.
>Maybe I should dump in the NaOH solution from my acid testing kit ;-)
>Of course that's a facetious comment but you'd think there would be a
>base out there compatible with a wine must that one could use to
>easily reduce acidity.

I added CaCO3... I have used it before and did not have any problems
that I noticed...

A.J. Rawls
Anchorage, Alaska, USA

glad heart wrote "I received my new titrets kit and excitedly prepared to
test when I
came to learn that in addition to the ampoules and titretor I also need a
valve assembly to draw up the must. So much for testing today. You'd think
they woulda known to set me up with complete kit."

Glad heart - you don't need anything besides the ampoule that comes with the
Titret kit. Attach the plastic tube to the ampoule, break the neck and
pinch just behind the ball in the plastic neck to draw up wine. Be sure to
have the plastic tube beneath the wine surface.

Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas

Bill is right about the ampoules and I would add to have the tube under the
surface of the wine before you break off the tip as sometimes I have seen
them draw in juice/air. I dont bother with the "valve" thing they offer and
just use them as Bill described. Follow the instructions and when it goes
perfectly clear flip the ampoule over and read the ppm of sulphite.HTH
John Dixon
"William Frazier" > wrote in message
...
>
> glad heart wrote "I received my new titrets kit and excitedly prepared to
> test when I
> came to learn that in addition to the ampoules and titretor I also need a
> valve assembly to draw up the must. So much for testing today. You'd
think
> they woulda known to set me up with complete kit."
>
> Glad heart - you don't need anything besides the ampoule that comes with
the
> Titret kit. Attach the plastic tube to the ampoule, break the neck and
> pinch just behind the ball in the plastic neck to draw up wine. Be sure
to
> have the plastic tube beneath the wine surface.
>
> Bill Frazier
> Olathe, Kansas
>
>

I just want to say thanks to everyone for your contributions to this
thread. Finally got the crab apple / apple must cooking 12 or 13 days
ago. It's had a nice cool fermentation and is now ready to be racked
into the secondary.

Negodki: your dilution idea worked perfectly. I diluted about 15%,
warmed up the must and used a yeast starter. Fired up easily. If it
turns out I'll send you a bottle.

Cheers,

Jim