"Rainer ilgmann" wrote:

OK. I got it. But how many Brix let produce how much alcohol?
Grams or by volume?

Theoretically, potential alcohol = Brix x .6. In practice, it is less
because some of the solutes which affect the Brix are NOT sugar, and some of
the alcohol evaporates during fermentation. This discrepancy varies with the
type of fruit, the condition of the fruit, the temperature of the must, and
the phase of Jupiter's moons. Thus any formula is an approximation. Tables
were derived empirically using pure sugar and distilled water in a
temperature-controlled laboratory. The various formulas are derived from
those tables, with an adjustment to allow for the aforementioned variables.

Commonly used formula (all of which are approximations) a

potential alcohol = 0.6 * Brix -1
Drop in gravity / 7.36
Brix * 0.59
Brix * 0.57
Brix * 0.55
Brix * 0.54
((Brix-3) * SG) * 0.59

Use whichever you prefer.

For more detail, see:
http://members.tripod.com/~BRotter/C...o/HydSugAl.htm

(Joe Sallustio) wrote in message . com...
Opps. I missed this thread; apologies.

I have a standard reference on this subject; Polarimetry,
Saccharimetry and the Sugars by Bates, published by NBS (NIST) in
1944.

Here is the definition of 20 Brix from it:

21.606 grams of sucrose (table or beet sugar are 99 % sucrose; it's
close enough).

107.991 grams of solute (the quantity of sucrose above + distilled
water to this weight).

You description in parentheses means it is 107.991 grams of
_solution_, making it 86.385 g of _solute_.

Or, if the description in parentheses is wrong, it is 129.597 g of
solution.

Get your terms right.

equals (at 20C)

20.0 brix
or 1.083 S.G.

Compared to water at what temperature for your specific gravity?

(The liter is defined as 1000 cubic centimeters of pure water at a
specific temperature, this method ignores volume measurements and
sticks to weight, (mass actually) of both water and sucrose.)

No. In 1944, the liter was defined as the volume occupied by 1000
grams of water at maximum density. About 1000.028 cm³.

Today, a liter is 1000 cubic centimeters. Always. It has nothing
whatsoever to do with water.

A liter of water today is 999.972 g at maximum density, less at any
other temperature. It never makes it to 1000.000 g.

I have a spreadsheet on all of this I can post, but it's probably huge
for this venue. (I corrected it for the changes in definition of mass
in air since published, not that it's significant here.)

Probably not ever.

Gene Nygaard

Hmm -- we're talking about wine. If it's close enough and makes adequate
alcohol, that's enough for me!



--
Greg Cook
http://homepage.mac.com/gregcook/Wine

(remove spamblocker from my email address)

"Negodki" wrote in message
...
"Negodki" wrote:
Second, make up a 20º Brix solution (weigh 20 grams of sugar into a
measuring cup, add water to 100 ml, and stir well).

"Lum" wrote:
Brix is defined as grams of sugar per 100 GRAMS of liquid. A 20 Brix
solution can be easily made by adding 20 grams of sucrose to 80
milliliters of water. See Ough "Winemaking Basics," page 260.

"Negodki" wrote in message
I said, "Weigh 20 grams of sugar INTO a measuring cup, [then] add water
TO
100 ml". This is the standard laboratory method of making a solution of
any particularly (percentage) strength (although with very small
percentages
one makes a stronger solution in this fashion, and then dilutes to
achieve the
desired percentage).

Since 20 grams of sugar in solution will only displace 12.9 ml (at
standard temperature and pressure), you need to add 87.1 ml of water to
achieve
a 10% solution. This is precisely what the laboratory method does. Your
method
would yield 92.9 ml of 21.5 % solution!

I discussed this in a recent thread. The value of 0.645 ml per gram of
sugar is from The American Wine Society's book, and appears in many
other
sources. The laboratory procedure is from my college texts, and appears
in
thousands of other sources.

"Lum" wrote:
I stand by the method I posted and by the reference I quoted. Try it.

Here are a few links which discuss both the correct procedure and the
volume
of sugar in solution.

http://home.att.net/~jeffrey.d.mathi...de/percent.htm


http://www.hometrainingtools.com/art...ching-tip.html

http://www.coscosci.com/lab/test_solns.htm

http://www.uoregon.edu/~ch111/L21.htm

http://www.fao.org/docrep/V5030E/V5030E0f.htm

http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~bitterte/molar.html

20 grams of sugar do NOT displace 20 millilitres of water, as your formula
requires. If they did, adding sugar would not change the specific gravity
of
the solution! For the correct result, you must either compute the volume
of
water to be added to the 100 ml solution as V=100 ml - (20 grams sugar *
.645 ml /gram); or you must place the 20 gms of sugar in a graduated
cylinder, and add water until a level of 100 ml is reached. Your formula
_would_ work for combining two liquid volumes.

As also discussed in the other thread, the difference between 80 and 92 ml
is probably smaller than the combined inaccuracy of one's measuring cups,
scale, and procedure. But, I think it best to shoot for the correct result
anyway.

I just noticed your statement "Brix is defined as grams of sugar per 100
GRAMS of liquid", emphasizing GRAMS. This is only true because the
reference
liquid is water, and 1 gram of water displaces 1 milliliter of volume ---
by
definition (this is the basis of the entire metric system, and all our
formulae). You don't really think the "Brix" of 1 gram of sugar in 100
grams
of alcohol or mercury would be the same as it is in 100 grams of water?

More mistakes have been made due to typos, misprints and incomplete
explanations than any other cause.


Perhaps I should have said .......20 grams of sugar in 80 grams of water.
In any event, the Brix scale is in percent, grams of sugar per 100 grams of
solute. The units are (gram/gram). See....... Margalit "Concepts in Wine
Chemistry," page 10 or...... Zoecklein "Wine Analysis and Production," page
70.
lum

"Lum" wrote:

Perhaps I should have said .......20 grams of sugar in 80 grams of water.
In any event, the Brix scale is in percent, grams of sugar per 100 grams
of
solute. The units are (gram/gram). See....... Margalit "Concepts in Wine
Chemistry," page 10 or...... Zoecklein "Wine Analysis and Production,"
page
70.

You are correct, and the way you expressed it originally us correct, and I
am completely in error, and I already apologized to you in another post in
this thread.

I thought Brix was % sugar by weight = grams / ml x 100, but I guess (if it
was) we wouldn't call it Brix, but %sugar.

"Negodki" wrote in message
...
"Lum" wrote:

Perhaps I should have said .......20 grams of sugar in 80 grams of
water.
In any event, the Brix scale is in percent, grams of sugar per 100 grams
of
solute. The units are (gram/gram). See....... Margalit "Concepts in
Wine
Chemistry," page 10 or...... Zoecklein "Wine Analysis and Production,"
page
70.

You are correct, and the way you expressed it originally us correct, and I
am completely in error, and I already apologized to you in another post in
this thread.

I thought Brix was % sugar by weight = grams / ml x 100, but I guess (if
it
was) we wouldn't call it Brix, but %sugar.

No apology is necessary Negodki. The newsgroup is for exchanging different
ideas.
lum

I have a spreadsheet on all of this I can post, but it's probably huge
for this venue. (I corrected it for the changes in definition of mass
in air since published, not that it's significant here.)


Joe, send me a copy and I'll put it up on the FAQ.

Anyone else have a related document, I'd be happy to do the same.


clyde

On Thu, 9 Oct 2003 09:21:44 -0500, "Clyde Gill"
wrote:



I have a spreadsheet on all of this I can post, but it's probably huge
for this venue. (I corrected it for the changes in definition of mass
in air since published, not that it's significant here.)


Joe, send me a copy and I'll put it up on the FAQ.

Anyone else have a related document, I'd be happy to do the same.

Not really related, but if anyone is interested, I have a spreadsheet
and word template set I created that keeps track of batches, bottles,
etc. I can send to anyone or put up for post somewhere....


email: dallyn_spam at yahoo dot com
please respond in this NG so others
can share your wisdom as well!