This is my first attempt at an icewine style dessert wine made with botrytis
affected grapes. (Sauvignon Blanc). The wine has been bulk aging for about
a year in glass or variable capacity stainless. The problem is I can't get
it to clear. Here's what I've done so far:

1. The juice was freeze fractioned (frozen, then the juice drained off
until the drained portion reached about 40 degrees brix.
2. The juice was fined pre-fermentation with isinglass at the
recommendation of a rep from Iniskillin.
3. Added lots of tartaric to get good acid to balance the sweetness.
4. Fermented with low alcohol tolerant yeast to about 9-10% abv.
5. Chilled and racked a few times to stop fermentation. (Fermentation has
definitely stopped.)
6. Fined with Bentonite.
7. Racked and added pectic enzyme.
8. Bulk aged 6 months.
9. Added more of a different type of pectic enzyme after a trial showed a
slight improvement in clarity.
10. Fined and counter fined with Chitosan and Kieselsol.
11. Bulk aged a few more months.

The wine tastes great, like a non-oxidized style Tokaji. It's still very
cloudy though. I've tried aging at low temperatures, and all of the above
finings, and it still won't clear. I've heard that botrytis affected wines
can be difficult to clear due to the formation of glucans, which are pectin
like substances that aren't affected by pectic enzymes. Does anyone have
any experience or ideas on getting this stuff to clear?

Thanks,

John

This is my first attempt at an icewine style dessert wine made with
botrytis
affected grapes. (Sauvignon Blanc). The wine has been bulk aging for
about
a year in glass or variable capacity stainless. The problem is I can't
get
it to clear. Here's what I've done so far:

1. The juice was freeze fractioned (frozen, then the juice drained off
until the drained portion reached about 40 degrees brix.
2. The juice was fined pre-fermentation with isinglass at the
recommendation of a rep from Iniskillin.
3. Added lots of tartaric to get good acid to balance the sweetness.
4. Fermented with low alcohol tolerant yeast to about 9-10% abv.
5. Chilled and racked a few times to stop fermentation. (Fermentation has
definitely stopped.)
6. Fined with Bentonite.
7. Racked and added pectic enzyme.
8. Bulk aged 6 months.
9. Added more of a different type of pectic enzyme after a trial showed a
slight improvement in clarity.
10. Fined and counter fined with Chitosan and Kieselsol.
11. Bulk aged a few more months.

The wine tastes great, like a non-oxidized style Tokaji. It's still very
cloudy though. I've tried aging at low temperatures, and all of the above
finings, and it still won't clear. I've heard that botrytis affected
wines
can be difficult to clear due to the formation of glucans, which are
pectin
like substances that aren't affected by pectic enzymes. Does anyone have
any experience or ideas on getting this stuff to clear?

Thanks,

John


Hi John,

I'm not sure if it would help after the fact, but gall tannins (one brand
name is Galalcool) is suppose to help with bot wines when added at crush.

It's curious to me why you would add pectic enzyme after settling the
grape!? I tend to add to free run just after crush and to the press
fraction in the press.

clyde

"Clyde Gill" wrote in message
...

Hi John,

I'm not sure if it would help after the fact, but gall tannins (one brand
name is Galalcool) is suppose to help with bot wines when added at crush.

It's curious to me why you would add pectic enzyme after settling the
grape!? I tend to add to free run just after crush and to the press
fraction in the press.

clyde

Hi Clyde,

I actually did add pectic enzyme just after crush, I just forgot to note
it in my post. The other additions were in an attempt to help clear the
wine, which wasn't clearing to my satisfaction at the time I added them. I
tend to add the minimum recommended amount at crush, so my thinking was that
there was room to add more to help clear the wine later. I'm guessing that
the haze I have now isn't pectic since it's still there.

Thanks for the info, I'll read up on gall tannins,

John

John,
Have you tried Sparkalloid? If not I would give it a trial in a sample
bottle. I have found that it is an excellent fining agent that is fairly
benign. HTH
John Dixon
"John DeFiore" wrote in message
...

"Clyde Gill" wrote in message
...

Hi John,

I'm not sure if it would help after the fact, but gall tannins (one
brand
name is Galalcool) is suppose to help with bot wines when added at
crush.

It's curious to me why you would add pectic enzyme after settling the
grape!? I tend to add to free run just after crush and to the press
fraction in the press.

clyde

Hi Clyde,

I actually did add pectic enzyme just after crush, I just forgot to note
it in my post. The other additions were in an attempt to help clear the
wine, which wasn't clearing to my satisfaction at the time I added them.
I
tend to add the minimum recommended amount at crush, so my thinking was
that
there was room to add more to help clear the wine later. I'm guessing
that
the haze I have now isn't pectic since it's still there.

Thanks for the info, I'll read up on gall tannins,

John

"J Dixon" wrote:

Have you tried Sparkalloid? If not I would give it a trial in a
sample
bottle. I have found that it is an excellent fining agent that is fairly
benign. HTH

Do you know what is in Sparkalloid? I'm very hesitant to use "proprietary"
products with "secret" ingredients. They may work fine (pun not intended),
but I don't want (e.g.) clam shells and possum guts in my wine, even if I
can't taste it. At least I know what's in bentonite, egg whites, tea, and
oak.

Why in fact I do know what Sparkalloid is, and have actually use it to fine
wine. Here is one "internet reference" and I personally recommend it as I
have use it to fine hundreds of gallons of White Wine. HTH

John Dixon

Sparkolloid (proteins / metal ions)

AKA: Celite. Calcined diatomaceous earth. Kieselguhr. Siliceous rock.

Composition: Crystalline Silica, quartz aluminasilicate, cristobalite. It
contains colloidal compounds which make it gel, and the silica is derived
from the preserved skeletons of marine animals found in dry seabeds.
Complex of various polysaccharides and diatomaceous earth. The diatom is a
microscopic organism in colonial algae that has a silicified skeleton.

Methodology: attracts negatively charged particles and removes the surface
charges which allow agglomeration of the colloidal particles then settling
due to gravity.

Effects: Clarifies a broad pectrum of hazes. Good at removing hazes left
from using other fining agents and in removing cations such as copper.
Little effect on flavour or colour. Most wines are easier to filter. Noted
for working when other fining agents have failed. Also provides a compact
sediment bed, pressing down other fining agents and increasing yield. Used
as a coating medium for filter pads, to decrease porosity.

Uses: Positively charged fining agent for beer and wine. To use, stir 25 g
of Sparkolloid into 1 litre of briskly boiling water. (Use 40ml of water per
gram of Sparkalloid.) Boil for three minutes, stirring well to completely
dissolve. All of the translucent globules must be dissolved and the mixture
should be smooth and creamy. Use 12.5 ml of the prepared solution for every
litre of wine (about 300 ml for 23 litres). This equates to a dry solids
basis of 0.13 to 0.4 grams / Litre. Stir thoroughly into wine, leave for 2
weeks, then rack off sediment. Store remaining solution in tightly sealed
bottle. Will keep for 6 months or more. 5 ml (one teaspoon) = approximately
1.2 g. The solution is best added to the wine while hot.

Optimum Temperatu 10-25oC. Does better in the lower end of the range.

Contra-indications: Preparation for use is not straight forward. Should be
filtered after use. In the U.S. the wine must be filtered to be sold as
commercial wines after use of Sparkalloid. Cold mix Sparkalloid is not as
effect as the hot mixed version. Do not use in conjunction with gelatin.

"Negodki" wrote in message
...
"J Dixon" wrote:

Have you tried Sparkalloid? If not I would give it a trial in a
sample
bottle. I have found that it is an excellent fining agent that is fairly
benign. HTH

Do you know what is in Sparkalloid? I'm very hesitant to use
"proprietary"
products with "secret" ingredients. They may work fine (pun not intended),
but I don't want (e.g.) clam shells and possum guts in my wine, even if I
can't taste it. At least I know what's in bentonite, egg whites, tea, and
oak.

"John DeFiore" wrote in message
...
This is my first attempt at an icewine style dessert wine made with
botrytis

Did your grapes become infected with botrytis on their own or did you
inoculate them?

Paul

"Negodki" wrote in message
...
"J Dixon" wrote:

Have you tried Sparkalloid? If not I would give it a trial in a
sample
bottle. I have found that it is an excellent fining agent that is fairly
benign. HTH

Do you know what is in Sparkalloid? I'm very hesitant to use
"proprietary"
products with "secret" ingredients. They may work fine (pun not intended),
but I don't want (e.g.) clam shells and possum guts in my wine, even if I
can't taste it. At least I know what's in bentonite, egg whites, tea, and
oak.


Sparkalloid (Scott Labs) and Klearmore are polysaccharides on diatomaceous
earth carriers. In solution, they are positively charged, and both are
relatively benign fining materials.
lum

Thanks, John, I will do a trial and see what happens.

John

"J Dixon" wrote in message
et...
John,
Have you tried Sparkalloid? If not I would give it a trial in a
sample
bottle. I have found that it is an excellent fining agent that is fairly
benign. HTH
John Dixon
"John DeFiore" wrote in message
...

"Clyde Gill" wrote in message
...

Hi John,

I'm not sure if it would help after the fact, but gall tannins (one
brand
name is Galalcool) is suppose to help with bot wines when added at
crush.

It's curious to me why you would add pectic enzyme after settling the
grape!? I tend to add to free run just after crush and to the press
fraction in the press.

clyde

Hi Clyde,

I actually did add pectic enzyme just after crush, I just forgot to
note
it in my post. The other additions were in an attempt to help clear the
wine, which wasn't clearing to my satisfaction at the time I added them.
I
tend to add the minimum recommended amount at crush, so my thinking was
that
there was room to add more to help clear the wine later. I'm guessing
that
the haze I have now isn't pectic since it's still there.

Thanks for the info, I'll read up on gall tannins,

John

I bought them from a grower who experienced natural botrytis infection.

Regards,

John
"Pavel314" wrote in message
...

"John DeFiore" wrote in message
...
This is my first attempt at an icewine style dessert wine made with
botrytis

Did your grapes become infected with botrytis on their own or did you
inoculate them?

Paul