"Louise Gagnon" wrote:

I'll probably use the radio/light motion detector next year. I have 2
yorkies so all the other deterrents (electricity, pepper etc.) are no good
for me since they are in the yard all day. When a raccoon does come into
the
yard at night I prefer not to let the dogs out since they're only 4 pounds
each, they think they're pit bulls and can take a raccoon but I think
they'd
come out of it bloody.

Louise,
If your yard is fenced, you can still use the electricity. Just run the
wire about 4" above the top of the fence. (Cut some 1' lengths of pvc pipe,
notch the top, and tie or nail them to the fence. Then string your wire
through the notches.) Yorkies are not going to jump or climb that high, and
if they do, you probably want to discourage them. But keep them away from
the raccoons. Coons can hurt a much larger animal if cornered.

"bwesley7" wrote in message
news:W5%fb.38600$sp2.6649@lakeread04...
I've got a few grape vines, but they aren't mature enough to attract
attention from coons -- but there are plenty of those critters around here
(southeast LA). After restocking my goldfish pond several times, and
having
it promptly emptied during nocturnal visits by one or more coons, I
conceded
defeat and made it a lily pond...

Racoons can do a lot of damage if left uncontrolled, and not just to
grapes,
goldfish or gardens. I work for a mid-size chemical manufacturer in Baton
Rouge area, and our $150-million plant was totally shut down on two
seperate
occassions as a result of coons climbing into major electrical
witchgear -- just enough left (mostly fur) to identify the culprit!

We put out traps and caught several -- the local Wildlife & Fisheries guys
picked them up and (supposedly) relocated them to less hazardous areas.

Good luck...

Bart

Yeah, and if that's not bad enough, I just got done running out back to the
grapes to scare off the dozen or so wild turkeys that we have around here.
Two of them flew but the rest just scurried away. They're hardly scared of
people! I've seen those SOBs bouncing like pogo sticks under my grapes,
gulping them down. This co-existence thing is kind of tough. : \
Ken A.

Robins are terrible. I have a flock of 50 or so practically living in the
vinyard. I thought I had 'em beat (shot 3 or 4 a week all summer with a
pellet gun ) but as soon as the sugar started going into the grapes, the
population explosion began. I have to harvest the grapes early to keep from
losing half. Picked pinot noir and pinot gris saturday, PN was 22.5 brix,
3.49 ph and 9 g/l TA. PG was22 brix, 3.35 ph and 6.2 g/l TA. There were some
slightly greenish seeds and I would have liked to let them hang another week
but what can you do? This is in Idaho at 2700 ft elevation. Any suggestions
about bird control measures? Have tried the bright streamers, inflatable
snakes, and I dislike nets (too expensive and this is supposed to be a
hobby! They are a lot of work!).

"Ken Anderson" wrote in message
et...
"bwesley7" wrote in message
news:W5%fb.38600$sp2.6649@lakeread04...
I've got a few grape vines, but they aren't mature enough to attract
attention from coons -- but there are plenty of those critters around
here
(southeast LA). After restocking my goldfish pond several times, and
having
it promptly emptied during nocturnal visits by one or more coons, I
conceded
defeat and made it a lily pond...

Racoons can do a lot of damage if left uncontrolled, and not just to
grapes,
goldfish or gardens. I work for a mid-size chemical manufacturer in
Baton
Rouge area, and our $150-million plant was totally shut down on two
seperate
occassions as a result of coons climbing into major electrical
witchgear -- just enough left (mostly fur) to identify the culprit!

We put out traps and caught several -- the local Wildlife & Fisheries
guys
picked them up and (supposedly) relocated them to less hazardous areas.

Good luck...

Bart

Yeah, and if that's not bad enough, I just got done running out back to
the
grapes to scare off the dozen or so wild turkeys that we have around here.
Two of them flew but the rest just scurried away. They're hardly scared of
people! I've seen those SOBs bouncing like pogo sticks under my grapes,
gulping them down. This co-existence thing is kind of tough. : \
Ken A.

Hi,
I have heard if you hang up CD on a string were they will spin in the wind
worries them.
Give us a use for all those damn AOL CD's.
AT least its cheap.
Cheers,
Dave

So far I have trapped 2 coons, 1 possum, and 6 squirrels - in the
city. Plus hundreds of yellow jackets. If you decide you like fuzzy
animals more than fruit, I suggest you buy grapes.
Tim
Quite simply, if I don't do something about the raccoons that have
discovered my grapes, there will be no wine for me. It's a nightly assault.
They spit the skins away - the ground under the vines is covered with them.
The canopy is disheveled from their climbing up the trunks and foraging. In
past posts, I see mention of box traps. Are there any other ways to deter
these critters? Can't bring myself to shoot, or trap them. Thanks.
Ken A.

Are you talking about commercial electric fences? Do they put out high
voltages, but won't kill you, like a car's coil? I don't know much about
electricity, but I believe the 220 in my garage can kill. And you're talking
800 volts?
Ken A.


It's not the volts that kill ya. it's the amps. This of this: a
static discharge (think touching a doorknob and getting a shock) is
usually measured in the 10's of KVolts.... asside from a but of
discomfort no problem. however, take even 15 volts, and a few amps
accross your heart, and say good bye.




email: dallyn_spam at yahoo dot com
please respond in this NG so others
can share your wisdom as well!

Be careful. 220V AC can certainly kill as can 800V AC. They both have
enough potential to force a substantial current through your heart, (under
the right circumstance) which is what Negodki correctly points out will kill
you. What makes the electric fences safe but uncomfortable to touch is the
FREQUENCY of the current. Something called the "skin effect" means that
higher frequency currents will tend to travel only on the outer part of a
conductor, i.e. not through the heart. This makes the shock non-lethal but
very unpleasant. The bottom line is don't try to rig up an electric fence
yourself, use a commercially available unit.

Regards,

John

"Negodki" wrote in message
...
"Ken Anderson" wrote:

Are you talking about commercial electric fences? Do they put out high
voltages, but won't kill you, like a car's coil? I don't know much about
electricity, but I believe the 220 in my garage can kill. And you're
talking
800 volts?

Amperage, not voltage kills. That's why you get a shock when you touch a
(firing) spark-plug wire (20-60,000 volts), but don't get hurt (unless you
bump your head on the hood jumping away).

Conversely, the 40-volts from a ringing telephone can kill you, if you
happen to be in the tub and someone drops the ringing phone in.

Standard "electric fence" transformers produce 800 volts a/c, and are
sufficient to deter small animals, deer, and humans. I think cattle and
horse fence transformers are about 1200-1600 volts, perhaps 2000. The 10Kv
fences are designed to kill anything which touches it, and are only used
in
very high-security installations. [They are illegal anywhere else, and you
wouldn't be able to purchase the transformers very easily.] It's mention
was
solely due to my hatred for raccoons, and a warped sense of humor. I
apologize if it offended your sensibilities.

Normally, one does not "electrify" the fence itself, but rather strings
the
hot-wire close to the ground, or just above fence level, using plastic
insulators, and grounds the transformer to the fence and the earth. Then
the
fence is not "hot", and doesn't pose a fire hazard if something touches
it.
When someone or something touches the hot-wire AND the fence (or wet
ground), they will receive a shock. Since the amperage is very low, and
the
current is A/C, the shock is just that --- a shock. It _will_ kill birds,
which is why the hot-wire should be far enough from the fence that the
bird
can't touch both, and rats (good riddance), but it will not kill dogs,
raccoons, squirrels, or larger mammals.

If you don't have a metal fence (e.g. chain-link), you need to install a
second "ground" wire, so that the intruder will touch both simultaneously.
For this to work, you need to determine the size of your target.

This would have been my suggestion, since a transformer and 500' roll of
wire can be purchased for about $25, and installed in a few hours (I used
sections of 3/4" pvc pipe as insulators). But I like the motion-detector
light and radio idea much better --- depending how large your vineyard is.

Since you say you are not familiar with electricity, and thus may not be
comfortable doing a bit of wiring, you can purchase (more expensive)
motion
detectors which have a standard plug in. Then you can plug that into an
extension cord, and plug the lamps and radio into it. Or, I will be happy
to
give you a quick course in wiring, and/or refer you to a website with
pictorial instructions.

I don't know what sort of vineyard you have, but I would envision having
at
least one detector in between each row, which can get pretty expensive
compared to the electric "fence". If it is a relatively small vineyard,
perhaps you can install the motion detector and lighting high enough to
cover everything with one or two fixtures.

Funny that you can't get tranquilizer darts because the government is afraid
you might use them on a person, but there's no problem getting .44 magnum
loads.

John

"Negodki" wrote in message
...
"Rick Vanderwal" wrote:

You might be surprised how your desire of being a good winemaker will
also
turn you into a good marksman as well! Good aim, good wine! poor aim,
no
wine? Of course you can use tranquilizers too! Would probably be
cheaper,
either tranq or .22 calibre, than getting an electric fence setup....

Problem is, it's not that easy to hit a raccoon, especially for someone
who
isn't a practiced shooter. And tranquilizer darts are more difficult to
obtain (and much more expensive) than bullets. I think you need to be a
licensed vet to obtain them. [The government is afraid you might use them
on
a person.]

Furthermore, raccoons are nocturnal animals. Unless one wishes to spend
every night until harvest standing watch in the vineyard, shooting them
isn't a very practical solution.

I wonder if it would help to ask them nicely to stay away?

I use those CD's for Christmas tree ornaments.
Tim
Hi,
I have heard if you hang up CD on a string were they will spin in the wind
worries them.
Give us a use for all those damn AOL CD's.
AT least its cheap.
Cheers,
Dave

"Lazurus106" wrote:

Give us a use for all those damn AOL CD's.

Yeah, but do you hate robins enough to make them use AOL?

What seems to work well (for bird control) in this area is those little
multi-coloured propeller things they sell at "party stores". Mount a few on
posts, or on a string. But you need some wind to turn them, or it doesn't
scare the birds away, so this is only a good solution where there is a
constant breeze.

Most insecticides will also kill birds, but this is not a good solution,
since birds control the insects much better than do insecticides.

"John DeFiore" wrote:

Be careful. 220V AC can certainly kill as can 800V AC. They both have
enough potential to force a substantial current through your heart, (under
the right circumstance) which is what Negodki correctly points out will
kill
you. What makes the electric fences safe but uncomfortable to touch is
the
FREQUENCY of the current. Something called the "skin effect" means that
higher frequency currents will tend to travel only on the outer part of a
conductor, i.e. not through the heart. This makes the shock non-lethal
but
very unpleasant. The bottom line is don't try to rig up an electric fence
yourself, use a commercially available unit.

Good point. I assumed that my suggestion implied purchasing a commercial
transformer (available at feed stores and some hardware stores), and not
trying to rig one up oneself, or trying to splice into the 880 feed lines on
the electric poles. But if you know how to build an a/c transformer, you
probably know how to build a safe one.

"John DeFiore" wrote:

Funny that you can't get tranquilizer darts because the government is
afraid
you might use them on a person, but there's no problem getting .44 magnum
loads.

That irony was my reason for parenthetically mentioning it.

"Ken Anderson" wrote in message
et...
Quite simply, if I don't do something about the raccoons that have
discovered my grapes, there will be no wine for me. It's a nightly
assault.
They spit the skins away - the ground under the vines is covered with
them.
The canopy is disheveled from their climbing up the trunks and foraging.
In
past posts, I see mention of box traps. Are there any other ways to deter
these critters? Can't bring myself to shoot, or trap them. Thanks.
Ken A.


A foot-high electric fence. Seems the commonest approach around here
(western Oregon) for racoons that get in fish ponds anyway. Doesn't need
much charge to discourage them, and you can just step over it.

Now if you had a deer problem it would be more of a challenge. I know of
one case where a buck liked grapes so much that he would just bull his way
past an electric fence to get in. A hunter friend of mine with a night
scope, and a special "nuisiance animal" permit obtained by the the vinyard
owner, ended this career of crime. It amazed me the the the buck would just
push right by the wire, getting zapped the whole time, to get in.

--arne

Hi: I found that spreading dog fur liberally under the wire, especially
around the trunk helped.

Joe
"Ken Anderson" wrote in message
et...
Quite simply, if I don't do something about the raccoons that have
discovered my grapes, there will be no wine for me. It's a nightly
assault.
They spit the skins away - the ground under the vines is covered with
them.
The canopy is disheveled from their climbing up the trunks and foraging.
In
past posts, I see mention of box traps. Are there any other ways to deter
these critters? Can't bring myself to shoot, or trap them. Thanks.
Ken A.

But then you'd have to trap a dog or shoot the bugger to get the fur to
spread around the perimeter! And you're right back to square one!!!!!!

Rick




"Joe Yudelson" wrote in message
...
Hi: I found that spreading dog fur liberally under the wire, especially
around the trunk helped.

Joe
"Ken Anderson" wrote in message
et...
Quite simply, if I don't do something about the raccoons that have
discovered my grapes, there will be no wine for me. It's a nightly
assault.
They spit the skins away - the ground under the vines is covered with
them.
The canopy is disheveled from their climbing up the trunks and foraging.
In
past posts, I see mention of box traps. Are there any other ways to
deter
these critters? Can't bring myself to shoot, or trap them. Thanks.
Ken A.