I was going to make a joke but pressed the Send button by accident. It
wasn't that funny so didn't seem worth the trouble trying again. Or
you could accept it as a zen contribution to the discussion.

As for the label... yes, it's a pretty good one. And what's inside is
even better ;-)

Pp

On Jul 4, 11:02*am, Billy wrote:
Would you care to elaborate on you post?
Chateau.pp? With a name like that, you are going to need one hell of a
good lable;-)

In article
,





*pp wrote:
On Jul 3, 10:21*pm, Billy wrote:
In article
,
*Joe Sallustio wrote:

On Jul 3, 9:08 am, "Pavel314" wrote:
"Billy" wrote in message

..
.

In article ,
"Pavel314" wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message

u...
In article ,
"Pavel314" wrote:

I've been googling to find a location that sells furmint grape
vines
without
any success. If anyone knows of a vendor, please post.

Thanks,

Paul

http://www.viticlonesupplies.com/id20.htm

Don't get excited, it looks like you'll be put on a waiting list.

You might give the University of California at Davis' viticulture
department a jingle. They might have a line on it (more likely
someone
who could or has imported it).

If you're planning on making a Tokaj style wine, you had best
learn
about botrytis cinerea, the mold that can turn a crop of white
grapes
into gold or garbage. It is botrytis cinerea (a.k.a. bunch rot)
that is
responsible for Sauternes, trokenbeerenausleses, and Tokaj.

Thanks, Billy, I wrote to them both. What I want to make is shipon,
a
Slovenian white wine made from furmint grapes. (In Slovenian, the
"sh"
sound
is indicated by an "s" with an inverted chevron on top, but I don't
have
that letter available in my email fonts.) Anyway, it used to *be
available
everywhere in Cleveland in the 1960's and 1970's but just isn't
imported
anymore, so I thought I'd grow my own.

Paul

Does it have a varietal flavor or is it the structure (fruitiness,
mouth
feel, tannins, ect.) of the wine that you like? If it was cheap, it
will
have been tank fermented (either a lined concret tank or stainless).
If
the weather is anything like Germany, the wines may be 6% to 11%
alcohol. I consider that consumer friendly. What did the one you have
taste like?

After 30 years, I remember it as having spicy tones and being very
crisp,
somewhat Gewurztraminer-ish. It was my favorite of the Slovenian
varieties.
I picked up some more recent descriptions on the Web:

"It has a lively, fruity, almost peppery nose with some grapey depth to
it.
The palate is really lively and fresh, with an exuberant fruity, spicy
character and a hint of spritz on the bright, acidic finish. This is a
very
pure, clean, minerally white that's full flavoured but zippy, and would
be a
versatile food wine. "

"The specialty of the area is Sipon: the must can achieve an
outstanding
content of aromatic oils and sugar, while the acids are less
aggressive."

I ordered the last seven bottles of Sipon in stock at Zachys in
Scarsdale,
NY, yesterday. They may be the last seven bottles in the U.S. I'll post
a
review when they arrive.

Paul

You could check with Cornell too but Traminette grows well here in the
Northeast and sounds very similar. *It's my favorite local white.

Joe

Traminette is a European hybrid (Joannes Seyve 23.416 x
'Gewürztraminer). It will be less good than a good gewürztraminer, which
can be exceptional, with distinctive aromas of rose oil. *

I suspect that furmint is more like a good pinot grigio.
--

Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind
Barshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&ref=patrick.nethttp://www.you
tube.com/watch?v=l0aEo59c7zU&feature=related- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

--

Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind Barshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&ref=patrick.nethttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo59c7zU&feature=related- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Jul 4, 1:21*am, Billy wrote:
In article
,
*Joe Sallustio wrote:





On Jul 3, 9:08 am, "Pavel314" wrote:
"Billy" wrote in message

...

In article ,
"Pavel314" wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Pavel314" wrote:

I've been googling to find a location that sells furmint grape vines
without
any success. If anyone knows of a vendor, please post.

Thanks,

Paul

http://www.viticlonesupplies.com/id20.htm

Don't get excited, it looks like you'll be put on a waiting list..

You might give the University of California at Davis' viticulture
department a jingle. They might have a line on it (more likely someone
who could or has imported it).

If you're planning on making a Tokaj style wine, you had best learn
about botrytis cinerea, the mold that can turn a crop of white grapes
into gold or garbage. It is botrytis cinerea (a.k.a. bunch rot) that is
responsible for Sauternes, trokenbeerenausleses, and Tokaj.

Thanks, Billy, I wrote to them both. What I want to make is shipon, a
Slovenian white wine made from furmint grapes. (In Slovenian, the "sh"
sound
is indicated by an "s" with an inverted chevron on top, but I don't have
that letter available in my email fonts.) Anyway, it used to *be
available
everywhere in Cleveland in the 1960's and 1970's but just isn't imported
anymore, so I thought I'd grow my own.

Paul

Does it have a varietal flavor or is it the structure (fruitiness, mouth
feel, tannins, ect.) of the wine that you like? If it was cheap, it will
have been tank fermented (either a lined concret tank or stainless).. If
the weather is anything like Germany, the wines may be 6% to 11%
alcohol. I consider that consumer friendly. What did the one you have
taste like?

After 30 years, I remember it as having spicy tones and being very crisp,
somewhat Gewurztraminer-ish. It was my favorite of the Slovenian varieties.
I picked up some more recent descriptions on the Web:

"It has a lively, fruity, almost peppery nose with some grapey depth to it.
The palate is really lively and fresh, with an exuberant fruity, spicy
character and a hint of spritz on the bright, acidic finish. This is a very
pure, clean, minerally white that's full flavoured but zippy, and would be a
versatile food wine. "

"The specialty of the area is Sipon: the must can achieve an outstanding
content of aromatic oils and sugar, while the acids are less aggressive."

I ordered the last seven bottles of Sipon in stock at Zachys in Scarsdale,
NY, yesterday. They may be the last seven bottles in the U.S. I'll post a
review when they arrive.

Paul

You could check with Cornell too but Traminette grows well here in the
Northeast and sounds very similar. *It's my favorite local white.

Joe

Traminette is a European hybrid (Joannes Seyve 23.416 x
'Gewürztraminer). It will be less good than a good gewürztraminer, which
can be exceptional, with distinctive aromas of rose oil. *

I suspect that furmint is more like a good pinot grigio.
--

Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind Barshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&ref=patrick.nethttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo59c7zU&feature=related- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I make all of those from Northeastern US grapes and the Traminette is
by far the best when it comes to nose and spice notes. I get most of
this from near Fredonia which isn't too awful far from Cleveland. The
seller (Walkers) does buy in grapes from all over the northeast but
these are grown locally as I understand it. The Pinot Grigio could be
overcropped but all I can tell you is it wasn't even on a par with a
well made Chenin Blanc, it's just mediocre, not bad, not good. The
Gewurz has a very pronounce grapefruit note that I really don't care
for. The Traminette has come out like a nice Gewurz each time I made
it. I make these dry so they show the flaws. I may blend the Gewurz
or sweeten it to see how that turns out. I gave up on the pinot
grigio last year...

Once you plant it takes a couple years to see where things end up,I
was just speaking to the local region, not the variety in general.

Joe

Joe

In article
,
Joe Sallustio wrote:

On Jul 4, 1:21*am, Billy wrote:
In article
,
*Joe Sallustio wrote:





On Jul 3, 9:08 am, "Pavel314" wrote:
"Billy" wrote in message

..
.

In article ,
"Pavel314" wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message

u...
In article ,
"Pavel314" wrote:

I've been googling to find a location that sells furmint grape
vines
without
any success. If anyone knows of a vendor, please post.

Thanks,

Paul

http://www.viticlonesupplies.com/id20.htm

Don't get excited, it looks like you'll be put on a waiting list.

You might give the University of California at Davis' viticulture
department a jingle. They might have a line on it (more likely
someone
who could or has imported it).

If you're planning on making a Tokaj style wine, you had best
learn
about botrytis cinerea, the mold that can turn a crop of white
grapes
into gold or garbage. It is botrytis cinerea (a.k.a. bunch rot)
that is
responsible for Sauternes, trokenbeerenausleses, and Tokaj.

Thanks, Billy, I wrote to them both. What I want to make is shipon,
a
Slovenian white wine made from furmint grapes. (In Slovenian, the
"sh"
sound
is indicated by an "s" with an inverted chevron on top, but I don't
have
that letter available in my email fonts.) Anyway, it used to *be
available
everywhere in Cleveland in the 1960's and 1970's but just isn't
imported
anymore, so I thought I'd grow my own.

Paul

Does it have a varietal flavor or is it the structure (fruitiness,
mouth
feel, tannins, ect.) of the wine that you like? If it was cheap, it
will
have been tank fermented (either a lined concret tank or stainless).
If
the weather is anything like Germany, the wines may be 6% to 11%
alcohol. I consider that consumer friendly. What did the one you have
taste like?

After 30 years, I remember it as having spicy tones and being very
crisp,
somewhat Gewurztraminer-ish. It was my favorite of the Slovenian
varieties.
I picked up some more recent descriptions on the Web:

"It has a lively, fruity, almost peppery nose with some grapey depth to
it.
The palate is really lively and fresh, with an exuberant fruity, spicy
character and a hint of spritz on the bright, acidic finish. This is a
very
pure, clean, minerally white that's full flavoured but zippy, and would
be a
versatile food wine. "

"The specialty of the area is Sipon: the must can achieve an
outstanding
content of aromatic oils and sugar, while the acids are less
aggressive."

I ordered the last seven bottles of Sipon in stock at Zachys in
Scarsdale,
NY, yesterday. They may be the last seven bottles in the U.S. I'll post
a
review when they arrive.

Paul

You could check with Cornell too but Traminette grows well here in the
Northeast and sounds very similar. *It's my favorite local white.

Joe

Traminette is a European hybrid (Joannes Seyve 23.416 x
'Gewürztraminer). It will be less good than a good gewürztraminer, which
can be exceptional, with distinctive aromas of rose oil. *

I suspect that furmint is more like a good pinot grigio.
--

Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind
Barshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&ref=patrick.nethttp://www.you
tube.com/watch?v=l0aEo59c7zU&feature=related- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I make all of those from Northeastern US grapes and the Traminette is
by far the best when it comes to nose and spice notes. I get most of
this from near Fredonia which isn't too awful far from Cleveland. The
seller (Walkers) does buy in grapes from all over the northeast but
these are grown locally as I understand it. The Pinot Grigio could be
overcropped but all I can tell you is it wasn't even on a par with a
well made Chenin Blanc, it's just mediocre, not bad, not good. The
Gewurz has a very pronounce grapefruit note that I really don't care
for. The Traminette has come out like a nice Gewurz each time I made
it. I make these dry so they show the flaws. I may blend the Gewurz
or sweeten it to see how that turns out. I gave up on the pinot
grigio last year...

Once you plant it takes a couple years to see where things end up,I
was just speaking to the local region, not the variety in general.

Joe

Great fun Joe. It has always amazed me how easy wine is to make.
You fermenting in 5 gal glass bottles or barrels? Used to be that white
grapes were ready at 21 to 23 brix and reds at 22 to 24 and a total acid
of about .7% but these days everybody is making wine for Robert Parker
which means soft, high alcohol wines that are picked at 24 to 28 brix.
This is a good time of year to have a cellar full of cool white wine.
It's a 101F outside as I type. It's no good for grapes, all they can do
in this heat is pump water for evaporative cooling. No energy for
ripening grapes.

To your health.
--

Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo...eature=related

In article
,
Joe Sallustio wrote:

The Traminette has come out like a nice Gewurz each time I made
it. I make these dry so they show the flaws.

Dry is how the Alsatians do it and it goes really well with quiche or
tarte flambée.
--

Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo...eature=related

On Jul 8, 7:08 pm, Billy wrote:
In article
,
Joe Sallustio wrote:



On Jul 4, 1:21 am, Billy wrote:
In article
,
Joe Sallustio wrote:

On Jul 3, 9:08 am, "Pavel314" wrote:
"Billy" wrote in message

..
.

In article ,
"Pavel314" wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message

u...
In article ,
"Pavel314" wrote:

I've been googling to find a location that sells furmint grape
vines
without
any success. If anyone knows of a vendor, please post.

Thanks,

Paul

http://www.viticlonesupplies.com/id20.htm

Don't get excited, it looks like you'll be put on a waiting list.

You might give the University of California at Davis' viticulture
department a jingle. They might have a line on it (more likely
someone
who could or has imported it).

If you're planning on making a Tokaj style wine, you had best
learn
about botrytis cinerea, the mold that can turn a crop of white
grapes
into gold or garbage. It is botrytis cinerea (a.k.a. bunch rot)
that is
responsible for Sauternes, trokenbeerenausleses, and Tokaj.

Thanks, Billy, I wrote to them both. What I want to make is shipon,
a
Slovenian white wine made from furmint grapes. (In Slovenian, the
"sh"
sound
is indicated by an "s" with an inverted chevron on top, but I don't
have
that letter available in my email fonts.) Anyway, it used to be
available
everywhere in Cleveland in the 1960's and 1970's but just isn't
imported
anymore, so I thought I'd grow my own.

Paul

Does it have a varietal flavor or is it the structure (fruitiness,
mouth
feel, tannins, ect.) of the wine that you like? If it was cheap, it
will
have been tank fermented (either a lined concret tank or stainless).
If
the weather is anything like Germany, the wines may be 6% to 11%
alcohol. I consider that consumer friendly. What did the one you have
taste like?

After 30 years, I remember it as having spicy tones and being very
crisp,
somewhat Gewurztraminer-ish. It was my favorite of the Slovenian
varieties.
I picked up some more recent descriptions on the Web:

"It has a lively, fruity, almost peppery nose with some grapey depth to
it.
The palate is really lively and fresh, with an exuberant fruity, spicy
character and a hint of spritz on the bright, acidic finish. This is a
very
pure, clean, minerally white that's full flavoured but zippy, and would
be a
versatile food wine. "

"The specialty of the area is Sipon: the must can achieve an
outstanding
content of aromatic oils and sugar, while the acids are less
aggressive."

I ordered the last seven bottles of Sipon in stock at Zachys in
Scarsdale,
NY, yesterday. They may be the last seven bottles in the U.S. I'll post
a
review when they arrive.

Paul

You could check with Cornell too but Traminette grows well here in the
Northeast and sounds very similar. It's my favorite local white.

Joe

Traminette is a European hybrid (Joannes Seyve 23.416 x
'Gewürztraminer). It will be less good than a good gewürztraminer, which
can be exceptional, with distinctive aromas of rose oil.

I suspect that furmint is more like a good pinot grigio.
--

Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind
Barshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&ref=patrick.nethttp://www.you
tube.com/watch?v=l0aEo59c7zU&feature=related- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I make all of those from Northeastern US grapes and the Traminette is
by far the best when it comes to nose and spice notes. I get most of
this from near Fredonia which isn't too awful far from Cleveland. The
seller (Walkers) does buy in grapes from all over the northeast but
these are grown locally as I understand it. The Pinot Grigio could be
overcropped but all I can tell you is it wasn't even on a par with a
well made Chenin Blanc, it's just mediocre, not bad, not good. The
Gewurz has a very pronounce grapefruit note that I really don't care
for. The Traminette has come out like a nice Gewurz each time I made
it. I make these dry so they show the flaws. I may blend the Gewurz
or sweeten it to see how that turns out. I gave up on the pinot
grigio last year...

Once you plant it takes a couple years to see where things end up,I
was just speaking to the local region, not the variety in general.

Joe

Great fun Joe. It has always amazed me how easy wine is to make.
You fermenting in 5 gal glass bottles or barrels? Used to be that white
grapes were ready at 21 to 23 brix and reds at 22 to 24 and a total acid
of about .7% but these days everybody is making wine for Robert Parker
which means soft, high alcohol wines that are picked at 24 to 28 brix.
This is a good time of year to have a cellar full of cool white wine.
It's a 101F outside as I type. It's no good for grapes, all they can do
in this heat is pump water for evaporative cooling. No energy for
ripening grapes.

To your health.
--

Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind Barshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&ref=patrick.nethttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo59c7zU&feature=related

Billy,
I use carboys and demijohns and usually ferment with heavy toast oak
chips or cubes. I don't understand the higher alcohol trend, balance
is balance. I have never made a wine over 14% ABV that didn't taste
hot; I just don't care for them. I have had a nice old vine Zin that
high but I didn't make it, my grapes aren't of that caliber.

Joe

In article
,
Joe Sallustio wrote:

On Jul 8, 7:08 pm, Billy wrote:
In article
,
Joe Sallustio wrote:



On Jul 4, 1:21 am, Billy wrote:
In article
,
Joe Sallustio wrote:

On Jul 3, 9:08 am, "Pavel314" wrote:
"Billy" wrote in message

.
au..
.

In article ,
"Pavel314" wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message

et.a
u...
In article ,
"Pavel314" wrote:

I've been googling to find a location that sells furmint
grape
vines
without
any success. If anyone knows of a vendor, please post.

Thanks,

Paul

http://www.viticlonesupplies.com/id20.htm

Don't get excited, it looks like you'll be put on a waiting
list.

You might give the University of California at Davis'
viticulture
department a jingle. They might have a line on it (more likely
someone
who could or has imported it).

If you're planning on making a Tokaj style wine, you had best
learn
about botrytis cinerea, the mold that can turn a crop of white
grapes
into gold or garbage. It is botrytis cinerea (a.k.a. bunch
rot)
that is
responsible for Sauternes, trokenbeerenausleses, and Tokaj.

Thanks, Billy, I wrote to them both. What I want to make is
shipon,
a
Slovenian white wine made from furmint grapes. (In Slovenian,
the
"sh"
sound
is indicated by an "s" with an inverted chevron on top, but I
don't
have
that letter available in my email fonts.) Anyway, it used to be
available
everywhere in Cleveland in the 1960's and 1970's but just isn't
imported
anymore, so I thought I'd grow my own.

Paul

Does it have a varietal flavor or is it the structure
(fruitiness,
mouth
feel, tannins, ect.) of the wine that you like? If it was cheap,
it
will
have been tank fermented (either a lined concret tank or
stainless).
If
the weather is anything like Germany, the wines may be 6% to 11%
alcohol. I consider that consumer friendly. What did the one you
have
taste like?

After 30 years, I remember it as having spicy tones and being very
crisp,
somewhat Gewurztraminer-ish. It was my favorite of the Slovenian
varieties.
I picked up some more recent descriptions on the Web:

"It has a lively, fruity, almost peppery nose with some grapey
depth to
it.
The palate is really lively and fresh, with an exuberant fruity,
spicy
character and a hint of spritz on the bright, acidic finish. This
is a
very
pure, clean, minerally white that's full flavoured but zippy, and
would
be a
versatile food wine. "

"The specialty of the area is Sipon: the must can achieve an
outstanding
content of aromatic oils and sugar, while the acids are less
aggressive."

I ordered the last seven bottles of Sipon in stock at Zachys in
Scarsdale,
NY, yesterday. They may be the last seven bottles in the U.S. I'll
post
a
review when they arrive.

Paul

You could check with Cornell too but Traminette grows well here in
the
Northeast and sounds very similar. It's my favorite local white.

Joe

Traminette is a European hybrid (Joannes Seyve 23.416 x
'Gewürztraminer). It will be less good than a good gewürztraminer,
which
can be exceptional, with distinctive aromas of rose oil.

I suspect that furmint is more like a good pinot grigio.
--

Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind
Barshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&ref=patrick.nethttp://www
.you
tube.com/watch?v=l0aEo59c7zU&feature=related- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I make all of those from Northeastern US grapes and the Traminette is
by far the best when it comes to nose and spice notes. I get most of
this from near Fredonia which isn't too awful far from Cleveland. The
seller (Walkers) does buy in grapes from all over the northeast but
these are grown locally as I understand it. The Pinot Grigio could be
overcropped but all I can tell you is it wasn't even on a par with a
well made Chenin Blanc, it's just mediocre, not bad, not good. The
Gewurz has a very pronounce grapefruit note that I really don't care
for. The Traminette has come out like a nice Gewurz each time I made
it. I make these dry so they show the flaws. I may blend the Gewurz
or sweeten it to see how that turns out. I gave up on the pinot
grigio last year...

Once you plant it takes a couple years to see where things end up,I
was just speaking to the local region, not the variety in general.

Joe

Great fun Joe. It has always amazed me how easy wine is to make.
You fermenting in 5 gal glass bottles or barrels? Used to be that white
grapes were ready at 21 to 23 brix and reds at 22 to 24 and a total acid
of about .7% but these days everybody is making wine for Robert Parker
which means soft, high alcohol wines that are picked at 24 to 28 brix.
This is a good time of year to have a cellar full of cool white wine.
It's a 101F outside as I type. It's no good for grapes, all they can do
in this heat is pump water for evaporative cooling. No energy for
ripening grapes.

To your health.
--

Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind
Barshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&ref=patrick.nethttp://www.you
tube.com/watch?v=l0aEo59c7zU&feature=related

Billy,
I use carboys and demijohns and usually ferment with heavy toast oak
chips or cubes. I don't understand the higher alcohol trend, balance
is balance. I have never made a wine over 14% ABV that didn't taste
hot; I just don't care for them. I have had a nice old vine Zin that
high but I didn't make it, my grapes aren't of that caliber.

Joe

I agree. Higher grape sugars make for nice sipping wines but 21% to 24%
make for better table wines, IMHO.

Harvest for sparkling wines will start in about a month here. Better
start cleaning your equipment ;-)
--

Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo...eature=related