Thanks again for all of the advice on my previous post,which will take
some digesting,but very informative.My technique so far has been as
follows.
1.Early in the summer I start taking out lateral side shoots so that I
do not get too much of a thick unmanageable hedge later on.I do not
take them all out as I wonder whether they will help the grapes grow
and mature later.I am still unclear as to whether this is correct and
whether I am inhibiting bud formation on those canes I leave for next
year.(I use Double Guyot cane pruning and leave a couple of canes
growing from near the old base for next years canes.)

2.I tie in the main shoots vertically early on to prevent them getting
tangled.Sometimes with the occasional strong winds,these blow
sideways,and I really need a better technique for tying in the
shoots.I use 2-ply string tied tightly round the horizontal wire,and
loosely round the vertical cane-however tight I tie onto the wire it
tends to move,and I think I need a better technique.One book I use
suggests twist ties(plastic coated wire),but surely they are difficult
to remove during pruning?

3.About the end of June(i.e.now) I start hedging by top cutting the
longest canes,and continue to take out some of the long side shoots(is
this correct?)-perhaps I should just hedge the vines top and sides?

4.During July and August I start leaf removal (not all ) around the
grape clusters to let the light and sulphur spray particularly into
the grape region.At the end of August I stop pruning and net against
bird attack(we have woodland all around and this is particularly
necessary quite early).

Thanks again,Michael.Any further advice very welcome.

michael wrote:

Thanks again for all of the advice on my
previous post,which will take some digesting,but
very informative.My technique so far has been as
follows. 1.Early in the summer I start taking
out lateral side shoots so that I do not get too
much of a thick unmanageable hedge later on.I do
not take them all out as I wonder whether they
will help the grapes grow and mature later.

Here is something to consider. At the field day
summer education meeting a few weeks ago, it was
brought up that in some cases it might make sense
to leave the lateral and cut out the main shoot.

I am
still unclear as to whether this is correct and
whether I am inhibiting bud formation on those
canes I leave for next year.(I use Double Guyot
cane pruning and leave a couple of canes growing
from near the old base for next years canes.)

This is the same system I am using. On some of my
older widely spaced vines I am retaining cordon
spur. I may consider infill planting later but
planting between older established vines may not
be the best thing to do.


2.I tie in the main shoots vertically early on
to prevent them getting tangled.Sometimes with
the occasional strong winds,these blow
sideways,and I really need a better technique
for tying in the shoots.

How do you have your wires? It is difficult to
see or explain without pictures.

I have three sets of parallel wires on both sides
of the post about 6 to 9 inches apart
horizontally and spaced about a foot apart
vertically.

You can get plastic "C" clips, which are often
used for attaching bird netting, and after the
shoots are long enough to go between the wires
merely "C" clip the two wires together. This
will hold the shoots in place without tying. I
learned this trick several weeks ago at the
summer educational meeting I mentioned.


I use 2-ply string tied
tightly round the horizontal wire,and loosely
round the vertical cane-however tight I tie onto
the wire it tends to move,and I think I need a
better technique.One book I use suggests twist
ties(plastic coated wire),but surely they are
difficult to remove during pruning?

3.About the end of June(i.e.now) I start hedging
by top cutting the longest canes,and continue to
take out some of the long side shoots(is this
correct?)-perhaps I should just hedge the vines
top and sides?

Sounds good to me.

4.During July and August I start leaf removal
(not all ) around the grape clusters to let the
light and sulphur spray particularly into the
grape region.

This depends on your growing season. I start
doing some very light initial leaf pulling on the
East side after fruit set or slightly before. I
make a couple passes during the season because as
the clusters mature they will hang instead of
being upright and different leaves will be in the
way of sunlight.

At the end of August I stop pruning
and net against bird attack(we have woodland all
around and this is particularly necessary quite
early).

In my area I have to net around the first week in
August. That is when verasion begins here and
that is when the birds get interested.


Thanks again,Michael.Any further advice very
welcome.

Sounds like you are on the right track.

On 26 Jun, 13:21, "Paul E. Lehmann" wrote:
michael wrote:
Thanks again for all of the advice on my
previous post,which will take some digesting,but
very informative.My technique so far has been as
follows. 1.Early in the summer I start taking
out lateral side shoots so that I do not get too
much of a thick unmanageable hedge later on.I do
not take them all out as I wonder whether they
will help the grapes grow and mature later.

Here is something to consider. *At the field day
summer education meeting a few weeks ago, it was
brought up that in some cases it might make sense
to leave the lateral and cut out the main shoot.

I am
still unclear as to whether this is correct and
whether I am inhibiting bud formation on those
canes I leave for next year.(I use Double Guyot
cane pruning and leave a couple of canes growing
from near the old base for next years canes.)

This is the same system I am using. *On some of my
older widely spaced vines I am retaining cordon
spur. *I may consider infill planting later but
planting between older established vines may not
be the best thing to do.



2.I tie in the main shoots vertically early on
to prevent them getting tangled.Sometimes with
the occasional strong winds,these blow
sideways,and I really need a better technique
for tying in the shoots.

How do you have your wires? *It is difficult to
see or explain without pictures. *

I have three sets of parallel wires on both sides
of the post about 6 to 9 inches apart
horizontally and spaced about a foot apart
vertically.

You can get plastic "C" clips, which are often
used for attaching bird netting, and after the
shoots are long enough to go between the wires
merely "C" clip the two wires together. *This
will hold the shoots in place without tying. *I
learned this trick several weeks ago at the
summer educational meeting I mentioned.

I use 2-ply string tied
tightly round the horizontal wire,and loosely
round the vertical cane-however tight I tie onto
the wire it tends to move,and I think I need a
better technique.One book I use suggests twist
ties(plastic coated wire),but surely they are
difficult to remove during pruning?

3.About the end of June(i.e.now) I start hedging
by top cutting the longest canes,and continue to
take out some of the long side shoots(is this
correct?)-perhaps I should just hedge the vines
top and sides?

Sounds good to me.



4.During July and August I start leaf removal
(not all ) around the grape clusters to let the
light and sulphur spray particularly into the
grape region.

This depends on your growing season. *I start
doing some very light initial leaf pulling on the
East side after fruit set or slightly before. *I
make a couple passes during the season because as
the clusters mature they will hang instead of
being upright and different leaves will be in the
way of sunlight.

At the end of August I stop pruning
and net against bird attack(we have woodland all
around and this is particularly necessary quite
early).

In my area I have to net around the first week in
August. *That is when verasion begins here and
that is when the birds get interested.



Thanks again,Michael.Any further advice very
welcome.

Sounds like you are on the right track.

Thanks for that.I have tried the plastic C-clips to tie my double
wires together.I find that this makes it more difficult to sort out
the crossing shoots and also makes it more difficult to spray so
effectively-but I do use them sometimes.However I mainly fall back on
tying with string.It seems that I use the same system as you-three
single wires 9" apart with the lowest about 18" from the ground,then
two sets of double wires about 6-9" apart-mine are rarely tight!,then
two more single wires with the top wire at about 5'6".
I am interested in your comment that you learned that it was better to
prune the leaders than take the side shoots out.What was the reason
given for this?Is it to do with the most efficient way to provide
energy to the growing clusters through these leaves.I can see why the
leaves on extension shoots 10'-20' away may have little effect.
Cheers,Michael

On Jun 26, 5:48*am, michael wrote:
Thanks again for all of the advice on my previous post,which will take
some digesting,but very informative.My technique so far has been as
follows.
1.Early in the summer I start taking out lateral side shoots so that I
do not get too much of a thick unmanageable hedge later on.I do not
take them all out as I wonder whether they will help the grapes grow
and mature later.I am still unclear as to whether this is correct and
whether I am inhibiting bud formation on those canes I leave for next
year.(I use Double Guyot cane pruning and leave a couple of canes
growing from near the old base for next years canes.)

2.I tie in the main shoots vertically early on to prevent them getting
tangled.Sometimes with the occasional strong winds,these blow
sideways,and I really need a better technique for tying in the
shoots.I use 2-ply string tied tightly round the horizontal wire,and
loosely round the vertical cane-however tight I tie onto the wire it
tends to move,and I think I need a better technique.One book I use
suggests twist ties(plastic coated wire),but surely they are difficult
to remove during pruning?

3.About the end of June(i.e.now) I start hedging by top cutting the
longest canes,and continue to take out some of the long side shoots(is
this correct?)-perhaps I should just hedge the vines top and sides?

4.During July and August I start leaf removal (not all ) around the
grape clusters to let the light and sulphur spray particularly into
the grape region.At the end of August I stop pruning and net against
bird attack(we have woodland all around and this is particularly
necessary quite early).

Thanks again,Michael.Any further advice very welcome.

You might want to try using one of those fake owl that the head move
around. It might help with the birds it doesn't stop them all but
helps cut back on the attack. You want to move it around very couples
weeks makes it seem real.

Mac

michael wrote:

On 26 Jun, 13:21, "Paul E. Lehmann"
wrote:
michael wrote:
Thanks again for all of the advice on my
previous post,which will take some
digesting,but very informative.My technique
so far has been as follows. 1.Early in the
summer I start taking out lateral side shoots
so that I do not get too much of a thick
unmanageable hedge later on.I do not take
them all out as I wonder whether they will
help the grapes grow and mature later.

Here is something to consider. *At the field
day summer education meeting a few weeks ago,
it was brought up that in some cases it might
make sense to leave the lateral and cut out the
main shoot.

I am
still unclear as to whether this is correct
and whether I am inhibiting bud formation on
those canes I leave for next year.(I use
Double Guyot cane pruning and leave a couple
of canes growing from near the old base for
next years canes.)

This is the same system I am using. *On some of
my older widely spaced vines I am retaining
cordon spur. *I may consider infill planting
later but planting between older established
vines may not be the best thing to do.



2.I tie in the main shoots vertically early
on to prevent them getting tangled.Sometimes
with the occasional strong winds,these blow
sideways,and I really need a better technique
for tying in the shoots.

How do you have your wires? *It is difficult to
see or explain without pictures.

I have three sets of parallel wires on both
sides of the post about 6 to 9 inches apart
horizontally and spaced about a foot apart
vertically.

You can get plastic "C" clips, which are often
used for attaching bird netting, and after the
shoots are long enough to go between the wires
merely "C" clip the two wires together. *This
will hold the shoots in place without tying. *I
learned this trick several weeks ago at the
summer educational meeting I mentioned.

I use 2-ply string tied
tightly round the horizontal wire,and loosely
round the vertical cane-however tight I tie
onto the wire it tends to move,and I think I
need a better technique.One book I use
suggests twist ties(plastic coated wire),but
surely they are difficult to remove during
pruning?

3.About the end of June(i.e.now) I start
hedging by top cutting the longest canes,and
continue to take out some of the long side
shoots(is this correct?)-perhaps I should
just hedge the vines top and sides?

Sounds good to me.



4.During July and August I start leaf removal
(not all ) around the grape clusters to let
the light and sulphur spray particularly into
the grape region.

This depends on your growing season. *I start
doing some very light initial leaf pulling on
the East side after fruit set or slightly
before. *I make a couple passes during the
season because as the clusters mature they will
hang instead of being upright and different
leaves will be in the way of sunlight.

At the end of August I stop pruning
and net against bird attack(we have woodland
all around and this is particularly necessary
quite early).

In my area I have to net around the first week
in August. *That is when verasion begins here
and that is when the birds get interested.



Thanks again,Michael.Any further advice very
welcome.

Sounds like you are on the right track.

Thanks for that.I have tried the plastic C-clips
to tie my double wires together.I find that this
makes it more difficult to sort out the crossing
shoots and also makes it more difficult to spray
so effectively-but I do use them
sometimes.However I mainly fall back on tying
with string.

I bought some plastic coated ties. They can be
undone and used year after year.


It seems that I use the same system
as you-three single wires 9" apart with the
lowest about 18" from the ground,then two sets
of double wires about 6-9" apart-mine are rarely
tight!,then two more single wires with the top
wire at about 5'6".

I am interested in your
comment that you learned that it was better to
prune the leaders than take the side shoots
out.

Sorry to mislead you. I did not mean in any way
to do this for all laterals. Sometimes though,
you may have a "bull cane" where this makes
sense. Bull canes have long internode spacing
the laterals have shorter ones with more leaves.
So far, I have not done this - because I have not
so far this year had a situation that waranted
it.

What was the reason given for this?Is it to
do with the most efficient way to provide energy
to the growing clusters through these leaves.I
can see why the leaves on extension shoots
10'-20' away may have little effect.
Cheers,Michael

You are in England, right?
What varieties are you growing?

"You are in England, right?"

That's another thing to consider. By the end of the year as the grapes
are ripening the sun is lower in the sky up there in England. You may
need all the leaves you can get. BTW, are you growing white wine?
White wine is more forgiving if your grapes don't ripen fully.

Bob

Jun 26, 11:16 am, "Paul E. Lehmann" wrote:
michael wrote:
On 26 Jun, 13:21, "Paul E. Lehmann"
wrote:
michael wrote:
Thanks again for all of the advice on my
previous post,which will take some
digesting,but very informative.My technique
so far has been as follows. 1.Early in the
summer I start taking out lateral side shoots
so that I do not get too much of a thick
unmanageable hedge later on.I do not take
them all out as I wonder whether they will
help the grapes grow and mature later.

Here is something to consider. At the field
day summer education meeting a few weeks ago,
it was brought up that in some cases it might
make sense to leave the lateral and cut out the
main shoot.

I am
still unclear as to whether this is correct
and whether I am inhibiting bud formation on
those canes I leave for next year.(I use
Double Guyot cane pruning and leave a couple
of canes growing from near the old base for
next years canes.)

This is the same system I am using. On some of
my older widely spaced vines I am retaining
cordon spur. I may consider infill planting
later but planting between older established
vines may not be the best thing to do.

2.I tie in the main shoots vertically early
on to prevent them getting tangled.Sometimes
with the occasional strong winds,these blow
sideways,and I really need a better technique
for tying in the shoots.

How do you have your wires? It is difficult to
see or explain without pictures.

I have three sets of parallel wires on both
sides of the post about 6 to 9 inches apart
horizontally and spaced about a foot apart
vertically.

You can get plastic "C" clips, which are often
used for attaching bird netting, and after the
shoots are long enough to go between the wires
merely "C" clip the two wires together. This
will hold the shoots in place without tying. I
learned this trick several weeks ago at the
summer educational meeting I mentioned.

I use 2-ply string tied
tightly round the horizontal wire,and loosely
round the vertical cane-however tight I tie
onto the wire it tends to move,and I think I
need a better technique.One book I use
suggests twist ties(plastic coated wire),but
surely they are difficult to remove during
pruning?

3.About the end of June(i.e.now) I start
hedging by top cutting the longest canes,and
continue to take out some of the long side
shoots(is this correct?)-perhaps I should
just hedge the vines top and sides?

Sounds good to me.

4.During July and August I start leaf removal
(not all ) around the grape clusters to let
the light and sulphur spray particularly into
the grape region.

This depends on your growing season. I start
doing some very light initial leaf pulling on
the East side after fruit set or slightly
before. I make a couple passes during the
season because as the clusters mature they will
hang instead of being upright and different
leaves will be in the way of sunlight.

At the end of August I stop pruning
and net against bird attack(we have woodland
all around and this is particularly necessary
quite early).

In my area I have to net around the first week
in August. That is when verasion begins here
and that is when the birds get interested.

Thanks again,Michael.Any further advice very
welcome.

Sounds like you are on the right track.

Thanks for that.I have tried the plastic C-clips
to tie my double wires together.I find that this
makes it more difficult to sort out the crossing
shoots and also makes it more difficult to spray
so effectively-but I do use them
sometimes.However I mainly fall back on tying
with string.

I bought some plastic coated ties. They can be
undone and used year after year.

It seems that I use the same system
as you-three single wires 9" apart with the
lowest about 18" from the ground,then two sets
of double wires about 6-9" apart-mine are rarely
tight!,then two more single wires with the top
wire at about 5'6".
I am interested in your
comment that you learned that it was better to
prune the leaders than take the side shoots
out.

Sorry to mislead you. I did not mean in any way
to do this for all laterals. Sometimes though,
you may have a "bull cane" where this makes
sense. Bull canes have long internode spacing
the laterals have shorter ones with more leaves.
So far, I have not done this - because I have not
so far this year had a situation that waranted
it.

What was the reason given for this?Is it to
do with the most efficient way to provide energy
to the growing clusters through these leaves.I
can see why the leaves on extension shoots
10'-20' away may have little effect.
Cheers,Michael

You are in England, right?
What varieties are you growing?

wrote:

"You are in England, right?"

That's another thing to consider. By the end of
the year as the grapes are ripening the sun is
lower in the sky up there in England. You may
need all the leaves you can get. BTW, are you
growing white wine? White wine is more forgiving
if your grapes don't ripen fully.

Bob

Bob, the summers in the northern latitudes have a
LOT of sunlight in the growing season. Ever been
to Anchorage and seen all the plants that grow
there in the summer? It is truly amazing.

Not all grapes require the "growing season" such
as Cabernet Sauvignon - as an example.



Jun 26, 11:16 am, "Paul E. Lehmann"
wrote:
michael wrote:
On 26 Jun, 13:21, "Paul E. Lehmann"
wrote:
michael wrote:
Thanks again for all of the advice on my
previous post,which will take some
digesting,but very informative.My
technique so far has been as follows.
1.Early in the summer I start taking out
lateral side shoots so that I do not get
too much of a thick unmanageable hedge
later on.I do not take them all out as I
wonder whether they will help the grapes
grow and mature later.

Here is something to consider. At the field
day summer education meeting a few weeks
ago, it was brought up that in some cases it
might make sense to leave the lateral and
cut out the main shoot.

I am
still unclear as to whether this is
correct and whether I am inhibiting bud
formation on those canes I leave for next
year.(I use Double Guyot cane pruning and
leave a couple of canes growing from near
the old base for next years canes.)

This is the same system I am using. On some
of my older widely spaced vines I am
retaining
cordon spur. I may consider infill planting
later but planting between older established
vines may not be the best thing to do.

2.I tie in the main shoots vertically
early on to prevent them getting
tangled.Sometimes with the occasional
strong winds,these blow sideways,and I
really need a better technique for tying
in the shoots.

How do you have your wires? It is difficult
to see or explain without pictures.

I have three sets of parallel wires on both
sides of the post about 6 to 9 inches apart
horizontally and spaced about a foot apart
vertically.

You can get plastic "C" clips, which are
often used for attaching bird netting, and
after the shoots are long enough to go
between the wires
merely "C" clip the two wires together.
This
will hold the shoots in place without tying.
I learned this trick several weeks ago at
the summer educational meeting I mentioned.

I use 2-ply string tied
tightly round the horizontal wire,and
loosely round the vertical cane-however
tight I tie onto the wire it tends to
move,and I think I need a better
technique.One book I use suggests twist
ties(plastic coated wire),but surely they
are difficult to remove during pruning?

3.About the end of June(i.e.now) I start
hedging by top cutting the longest
canes,and continue to take out some of the
long side shoots(is this correct?)-perhaps
I should just hedge the vines top and
sides?

Sounds good to me.

4.During July and August I start leaf
removal (not all ) around the grape
clusters to let the light and sulphur
spray particularly into the grape region.

This depends on your growing season. I
start doing some very light initial leaf
pulling on the East side after fruit set or
slightly
before. I make a couple passes during the
season because as the clusters mature they
will hang instead of being upright and
different leaves will be in the way of
sunlight.

At the end of August I stop pruning
and net against bird attack(we have
woodland all around and this is
particularly necessary quite early).

In my area I have to net around the first
week
in August. That is when verasion begins
here and that is when the birds get
interested.

Thanks again,Michael.Any further advice
very welcome.

Sounds like you are on the right track.

Thanks for that.I have tried the plastic
C-clips to tie my double wires together.I
find that this makes it more difficult to
sort out the crossing shoots and also makes
it more difficult to spray so effectively-but
I do use them sometimes.However I mainly fall
back on tying with string.

I bought some plastic coated ties. They can be
undone and used year after year.

It seems that I use the same system
as you-three single wires 9" apart with the
lowest about 18" from the ground,then two
sets of double wires about 6-9" apart-mine
are rarely tight!,then two more single wires
with the top wire at about 5'6".
I am interested in your
comment that you learned that it was better
to prune the leaders than take the side
shoots out.

Sorry to mislead you. I did not mean in any
way
to do this for all laterals. Sometimes though,
you may have a "bull cane" where this makes
sense. Bull canes have long internode spacing
the laterals have shorter ones with more
leaves. So far, I have not done this - because
I have not so far this year had a situation
that waranted it.

What was the reason given for this?Is it to
do with the most efficient way to provide
energy to the growing clusters through these
leaves.I can see why the leaves on extension
shoots 10'-20' away may have little effect.
Cheers,Michael

You are in England, right?
What varieties are you growing?

So are you saying the north pole is the next great viticultual area
that has yet to be discovered?

Bob

On Jun 27, 8:30 pm, "Paul E. Lehmann" wrote:
wrote:
"You are in England, right?"

That's another thing to consider. By the end of
the year as the grapes are ripening the sun is
lower in the sky up there in England. You may
need all the leaves you can get. BTW, are you
growing white wine? White wine is more forgiving
if your grapes don't ripen fully.

Bob

Bob, the summers in the northern latitudes have a
LOT of sunlight in the growing season. Ever been
to Anchorage and seen all the plants that grow
there in the summer? It is truly amazing.

Not all grapes require the "growing season" such
as Cabernet Sauvignon - as an example.



Jun 26, 11:16 am, "Paul E. Lehmann"
wrote:
michael wrote:
On 26 Jun, 13:21, "Paul E. Lehmann"
wrote:
michael wrote:
Thanks again for all of the advice on my
previous post,which will take some
digesting,but very informative.My
technique so far has been as follows.
1.Early in the summer I start taking out
lateral side shoots so that I do not get
too much of a thick unmanageable hedge
later on.I do not take them all out as I
wonder whether they will help the grapes
grow and mature later.

Here is something to consider. At the field
day summer education meeting a few weeks
ago, it was brought up that in some cases it
might make sense to leave the lateral and
cut out the main shoot.

I am
still unclear as to whether this is
correct and whether I am inhibiting bud
formation on those canes I leave for next
year.(I use Double Guyot cane pruning and
leave a couple of canes growing from near
the old base for next years canes.)

This is the same system I am using. On some
of my older widely spaced vines I am
retaining
cordon spur. I may consider infill planting
later but planting between older established
vines may not be the best thing to do.

2.I tie in the main shoots vertically
early on to prevent them getting
tangled.Sometimes with the occasional
strong winds,these blow sideways,and I
really need a better technique for tying
in the shoots.

How do you have your wires? It is difficult
to see or explain without pictures.

I have three sets of parallel wires on both
sides of the post about 6 to 9 inches apart
horizontally and spaced about a foot apart
vertically.

You can get plastic "C" clips, which are
often used for attaching bird netting, and
after the shoots are long enough to go
between the wires
merely "C" clip the two wires together.
This
will hold the shoots in place without tying.
I learned this trick several weeks ago at
the summer educational meeting I mentioned.

I use 2-ply string tied
tightly round the horizontal wire,and
loosely round the vertical cane-however
tight I tie onto the wire it tends to
move,and I think I need a better
technique.One book I use suggests twist
ties(plastic coated wire),but surely they
are difficult to remove during pruning?

3.About the end of June(i.e.now) I start
hedging by top cutting the longest
canes,and continue to take out some of the
long side shoots(is this correct?)-perhaps
I should just hedge the vines top and
sides?

Sounds good to me.

4.During July and August I start leaf
removal (not all ) around the grape
clusters to let the light and sulphur
spray particularly into the grape region.

This depends on your growing season. I
start doing some very light initial leaf
pulling on the East side after fruit set or
slightly
before. I make a couple passes during the
season because as the clusters mature they
will hang instead of being upright and
different leaves will be in the way of
sunlight.

At the end of August I stop pruning
and net against bird attack(we have
woodland all around and this is
particularly necessary quite early).

In my area I have to net around the first
week
in August. That is when verasion begins
here and that is when the birds get
interested.

Thanks again,Michael.Any further advice
very welcome.

Sounds like you are on the right track.

Thanks for that.I have tried the plastic
C-clips to tie my double wires together.I
find that this makes it more difficult to
sort out the crossing shoots and also makes
it more difficult to spray so effectively-but
I do use them sometimes.However I mainly fall
back on tying with string.

I bought some plastic coated ties. They can be
undone and used year after year.

It seems that I use the same system
as you-three single wires 9" apart with the
lowest about 18" from the ground,then two
sets of double wires about 6-9" apart-mine
are rarely tight!,then two more single wires
with the top wire at about 5'6".
I am interested in your
comment that you learned that it was better
to prune the leaders than take the side
shoots out.

Sorry to mislead you. I did not mean in any
way
to do this for all laterals. Sometimes though,
you may have a "bull cane" where this makes
sense. Bull canes have long internode spacing
the laterals have shorter ones with more
leaves. So far, I have not done this - because
I have not so far this year had a situation
that waranted it.

What was the reason given for this?Is it to
do with the most efficient way to provide
energy to the growing clusters through these
leaves.I can see why the leaves on extension
shoots 10'-20' away may have little effect.
Cheers,Michael

You are in England, right?
What varieties are you growing?

wrote:

So are you saying the north pole is the next
great viticultual area that has yet to be
discovered?

Bob

Visit Anchorage some time in the summer. You
would be amazed at the size and abundance of
things grown there in the summer. You would also
be amazed at the daylight hours in the summer.

Anchorage is not the North Pole, but I think you
get the idea.

Grapes are being grown commercially as far north
as Vancouver Island and in a region of British
Colombia. I am going to visit there this August.


On Jun 27, 8:30 pm, "Paul E. Lehmann"
wrote:
wrote:
"You are in England, right?"

That's another thing to consider. By the end
of the year as the grapes are ripening the
sun is lower in the sky up there in England.
You may
need all the leaves you can get. BTW, are
you growing white wine? White wine is more
forgiving if your grapes don't ripen fully.

Bob

Bob, the summers in the northern latitudes have
a
LOT of sunlight in the growing season. Ever
been to Anchorage and seen all the plants that
grow
there in the summer? It is truly amazing.

Not all grapes require the "growing season"
such as Cabernet Sauvignon - as an example.



Jun 26, 11:16 am, "Paul E. Lehmann"
wrote:
michael wrote:
On 26 Jun, 13:21, "Paul E. Lehmann"
wrote:
michael wrote:
Thanks again for all of the advice on
my previous post,which will take some
digesting,but very informative.My
technique so far has been as follows.
1.Early in the summer I start taking
out lateral side shoots so that I do
not get too much of a thick
unmanageable hedge later on.I do not
take them all out as I wonder whether
they will help the grapes grow and
mature later.

Here is something to consider. At the
field day summer education meeting a few
weeks ago, it was brought up that in some
cases it might make sense to leave the
lateral and cut out the main shoot.

I am
still unclear as to whether this is
correct and whether I am inhibiting bud
formation on those canes I leave for
next year.(I use Double Guyot cane
pruning and leave a couple of canes
growing from near the old base for next
years canes.)

This is the same system I am using. On
some of my older widely spaced vines I am
retaining
cordon spur. I may consider infill
planting later but planting between older
established vines may not be the best
thing to do.

2.I tie in the main shoots vertically
early on to prevent them getting
tangled.Sometimes with the occasional
strong winds,these blow sideways,and I
really need a better technique for
tying in the shoots.

How do you have your wires? It is
difficult to see or explain without
pictures.

I have three sets of parallel wires on
both sides of the post about 6 to 9
inches apart horizontally and spaced
about a foot apart vertically.

You can get plastic "C" clips, which are
often used for attaching bird netting,
and after the shoots are long enough to
go between the wires
merely "C" clip the two wires together.
This
will hold the shoots in place without
tying.
I learned this trick several weeks ago
at
the summer educational meeting I
mentioned.

I use 2-ply string tied
tightly round the horizontal wire,and
loosely round the vertical cane-however
tight I tie onto the wire it tends to
move,and I think I need a better
technique.One book I use suggests twist
ties(plastic coated wire),but surely
they are difficult to remove during
pruning?

3.About the end of June(i.e.now) I
start hedging by top cutting the
longest canes,and continue to take out
some of the long side shoots(is this
correct?)-perhaps I should just hedge
the vines top and sides?

Sounds good to me.

4.During July and August I start leaf
removal (not all ) around the grape
clusters to let the light and sulphur
spray particularly into the grape
region.

This depends on your growing season. I
start doing some very light initial leaf
pulling on the East side after fruit set
or slightly
before. I make a couple passes during
the season because as the clusters mature
they will hang instead of being upright
and different leaves will be in the way
of sunlight.

At the end of August I stop pruning
and net against bird attack(we have
woodland all around and this is
particularly necessary quite early).

In my area I have to net around the first
week
in August. That is when verasion begins
here and that is when the birds get
interested.

Thanks again,Michael.Any further advice
very welcome.

Sounds like you are on the right track.

Thanks for that.I have tried the plastic
C-clips to tie my double wires together.I
find that this makes it more difficult to
sort out the crossing shoots and also
makes it more difficult to spray so
effectively-but I do use them
sometimes.However I mainly fall back on
tying with string.

I bought some plastic coated ties. They can
be undone and used year after year.

It seems that I use the same system
as you-three single wires 9" apart with
the lowest about 18" from the ground,then
two sets of double wires about 6-9"
apart-mine are rarely tight!,then two more
single wires with the top wire at about
5'6". I am interested in your
comment that you learned that it was
better to prune the leaders than take the
side shoots out.

Sorry to mislead you. I did not mean in any
way
to do this for all laterals. Sometimes
though, you may have a "bull cane" where
this makes
sense. Bull canes have long internode
spacing the laterals have shorter ones with
more leaves. So far, I have not done this -
because I have not so far this year had a
situation that waranted it.

What was the reason given for this?Is it
to do with the most efficient way to
provide energy to the growing clusters
through these leaves.I can see why the
leaves on extension shoots 10'-20' away
may have little effect. Cheers,Michael

You are in England, right?
What varieties are you growing?

On 26 Jun, 17:16, "Paul E. Lehmann" wrote:
michael wrote:
On 26 Jun, 13:21, "Paul E. Lehmann"
wrote:
michael wrote:
Thanks again for all of the advice on my
previous post,which will take some
digesting,but very informative.My technique
so far has been as follows. 1.Early in the
summer I start taking out lateral side shoots
so that I do not get too much of a thick
unmanageable hedge later on.I do not take
them all out as I wonder whether they will
help the grapes grow and mature later.

Here is something to consider. *At the field
day summer education meeting a few weeks ago,
it was brought up that in some cases it might
make sense to leave the lateral and cut out the
main shoot.

I am
still unclear as to whether this is correct
and whether I am inhibiting bud formation on
those canes I leave for next year.(I use
Double Guyot cane pruning and leave a couple
of canes growing from near the old base for
next years canes.)

This is the same system I am using. *On some of
my older widely spaced vines I am retaining
cordon spur. *I may consider infill planting
later but planting between older established
vines may not be the best thing to do.

2.I tie in the main shoots vertically early
on to prevent them getting tangled.Sometimes
with the occasional strong winds,these blow
sideways,and I really need a better technique
for tying in the shoots.

How do you have your wires? *It is difficult to
see or explain without pictures.

I have three sets of parallel wires on both
sides of the post about 6 to 9 inches apart
horizontally and spaced about a foot apart
vertically.

You can get plastic "C" clips, which are often
used for attaching bird netting, and after the
shoots are long enough to go between the wires
merely "C" clip the two wires together. *This
will hold the shoots in place without tying. *I
learned this trick several weeks ago at the
summer educational meeting I mentioned.

I use 2-ply string tied
tightly round the horizontal wire,and loosely
round the vertical cane-however tight I tie
onto the wire it tends to move,and I think I
need a better technique.One book I use
suggests twist ties(plastic coated wire),but
surely they are difficult to remove during
pruning?

3.About the end of June(i.e.now) I start
hedging by top cutting the longest canes,and
continue to take out some of the long side
shoots(is this correct?)-perhaps I should
just hedge the vines top and sides?

Sounds good to me.

4.During July and August I start leaf removal
(not all ) around the grape clusters to let
the light and sulphur spray particularly into
the grape region.

This depends on your growing season. *I start
doing some very light initial leaf pulling on
the East side after fruit set or slightly
before. *I make a couple passes during the
season because as the clusters mature they will
hang instead of being upright and different
leaves will be in the way of sunlight.

At the end of August I stop pruning
and net against bird attack(we have woodland
all around and this is particularly necessary
quite early).

In my area I have to net around the first week
in August. *That is when verasion begins here
and that is when the birds get interested.

Thanks again,Michael.Any further advice very
welcome.

Sounds like you are on the right track.

Thanks for that.I have tried the plastic C-clips
to tie my double wires together.I find that this
makes it more difficult to sort out the crossing
shoots and also makes it more difficult to spray
so effectively-but I do use them
sometimes.However I mainly fall back on tying
with string.

I bought some plastic coated ties. *They can be
undone and used year after year.

It seems that I use the same system
as you-three single wires 9" apart with the
lowest about 18" from the ground,then two sets
of double wires about 6-9" apart-mine are rarely
tight!,then two more single wires with the top
wire at about 5'6".
I am interested in your
comment that you learned that it was better to
prune the leaders than take the side shoots
out.

Sorry to mislead you. *I did not mean in any way
to do this for all laterals. *Sometimes though,
you may have a "bull cane" where this makes
sense. *Bull canes have long internode spacing
the laterals have shorter ones with more leaves.
So far, I have not done this - because I have not
so far this year had a situation that waranted
it.

What was the reason given for this?Is it to
do with the most efficient way to provide energy
to the growing clusters through these leaves.I
can see why the leaves on extension shoots
10'-20' away may have little effect.
Cheers,Michael

You are in England, right?
What varieties are you growing?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hi Paul,
I grow five varieties of grapes in
Herefordshire,England,which is becoming a good climate for vines-we
have about 28" of rainfall annually and typically bright autumns.They
a

Bacchus-a white grape.Ripens early October

Schonburger-a white grape.Ripens mid october

Rondo-a red grape .Ripens late September.

Regent -a red grape .Ripens mid October.

Johanniter-a new white hybrid.

I have chosen the above varieties as they have all been developed in
Germany for early ripening.Rondo,Regent and Johanniter are 'new'
disease resistant varieties and do not suffer much from powdery
mildew.Bacchus and Schonburger are older hybrids which (when grown in
England)have won top prizes in European blind tastings.

I also know of some English vineyards who are beginning to plant
Cabernet sauvingnon,so our climate must be getting better.Typically
our rainfull is not that high,and we often have long dry spells-we are
on a s-facing limestone soil so our drainage is excellent also.
Cheers,Michael

Bacchus-a white variety that is popular in Germany

michael wrote:

On 26 Jun, 17:16, "Paul E. Lehmann"
wrote:
michael wrote:
On 26 Jun, 13:21, "Paul E. Lehmann"
wrote:
michael wrote:
Thanks again for all of the advice on my
previous post,which will take some
digesting,but very informative.My
technique so far has been as follows.
1.Early in the summer I start taking out
lateral side shoots so that I do not get
too much of a thick unmanageable hedge
later on.I do not take them all out as I
wonder whether they will help the grapes
grow and mature later.

Here is something to consider. *At the field
day summer education meeting a few weeks
ago, it was brought up that in some cases it
might make sense to leave the lateral and
cut out the main shoot.

I am
still unclear as to whether this is
correct and whether I am inhibiting bud
formation on those canes I leave for next
year.(I use Double Guyot cane pruning and
leave a couple of canes growing from near
the old base for next years canes.)

This is the same system I am using. *On some
of my older widely spaced vines I am
retaining cordon spur. *I may consider
infill planting later but planting between
older established vines may not be the best
thing to do.

2.I tie in the main shoots vertically
early on to prevent them getting
tangled.Sometimes with the occasional
strong winds,these blow sideways,and I
really need a better technique for tying
in the shoots.

How do you have your wires? *It is difficult
to see or explain without pictures.

I have three sets of parallel wires on both
sides of the post about 6 to 9 inches apart
horizontally and spaced about a foot apart
vertically.

You can get plastic "C" clips, which are
often used for attaching bird netting, and
after the shoots are long enough to go
between the wires merely "C" clip the two
wires together. *This will hold the shoots
in place without tying. *I learned this
trick several weeks ago at the summer
educational meeting I mentioned.

I use 2-ply string tied
tightly round the horizontal wire,and
loosely round the vertical cane-however
tight I tie onto the wire it tends to
move,and I think I need a better
technique.One book I use suggests twist
ties(plastic coated wire),but surely they
are difficult to remove during pruning?

3.About the end of June(i.e.now) I start
hedging by top cutting the longest
canes,and continue to take out some of the
long side shoots(is this correct?)-perhaps
I should just hedge the vines top and
sides?

Sounds good to me.

4.During July and August I start leaf
removal (not all ) around the grape
clusters to let the light and sulphur
spray particularly into the grape region.

This depends on your growing season. *I
start doing some very light initial leaf
pulling on the East side after fruit set or
slightly before. *I make a couple passes
during the season because as the clusters
mature they will hang instead of being
upright and different leaves will be in the
way of sunlight.

At the end of August I stop pruning
and net against bird attack(we have
woodland all around and this is
particularly necessary quite early).

In my area I have to net around the first
week in August. *That is when verasion
begins here and that is when the birds get
interested.

Thanks again,Michael.Any further advice
very welcome.

Sounds like you are on the right track.

Thanks for that.I have tried the plastic
C-clips to tie my double wires together.I
find that this makes it more difficult to
sort out the crossing shoots and also makes
it more difficult to spray so effectively-but
I do use them sometimes.However I mainly fall
back on tying with string.

I bought some plastic coated ties. *They can be
undone and used year after year.

It seems that I use the same system
as you-three single wires 9" apart with the
lowest about 18" from the ground,then two
sets of double wires about 6-9" apart-mine
are rarely tight!,then two more single wires
with the top wire at about 5'6".
I am interested in your
comment that you learned that it was better
to prune the leaders than take the side
shoots out.

Sorry to mislead you. *I did not mean in any
way to do this for all laterals. *Sometimes
though, you may have a "bull cane" where this
makes sense. *Bull canes have long internode
spacing the laterals have shorter ones with
more leaves. So far, I have not done this -
because I have not so far this year had a
situation that waranted it.

What was the reason given for this?Is it to
do with the most efficient way to provide
energy to the growing clusters through these
leaves.I can see why the leaves on extension
shoots 10'-20' away may have little effect.
Cheers,Michael

You are in England, right?
What varieties are you growing?- Hide quoted
text -

- Show quoted text -

Hi Paul,
I grow five varieties of grapes in
Herefordshire,England,which is becoming a good
climate for vines-we have about 28" of rainfall
annually and typically bright autumns.They a

Bacchus-a white grape.Ripens early October

Schonburger-a white grape.Ripens mid october

Rondo-a red grape .Ripens late September.

Regent -a red grape .Ripens mid October.

Johanniter-a new white hybrid.

I have chosen the above varieties as they have
all been developed in Germany for early
ripening.Rondo,Regent and Johanniter are 'new'
disease resistant varieties and do not suffer
much from powdery mildew.Bacchus and Schonburger
are older hybrids which (when grown in
England)have won top prizes in European blind
tastings.

I also know of some English vineyards who are
beginning to plant Cabernet sauvingnon,so our
climate must be getting better.Typically our
rainfull is not that high,and we often have long
dry spells-we are on a s-facing limestone soil
so our drainage is excellent also.
Cheers,Michael

Bacchus-a white variety that is popular in
Germany

That sounds interesting. Cabernet Sauvignon seems
to require a long hang time and around here
generally is not ready for harvest until mid to
late October - providing the killing frosts holds
off that long.

Cabernet Franc seems to be a good variety for
cooler climates. I tasted some excellent locally
grown Cabernet Franc when I visited Nova Scotia.
I was surprised to see vineyards there. I guess
the Gulf Stream really helps moderate the
climate.