This is revisiting an old post of mine.

I plan to really up my game this September. I am buying 1400lbs of
grapes. (huge purchase for me)

And as the planning steps fill my everyday thoughts as they do, I
contemplate everything.

Many of you have answered previous questions and I thank you.

But I wonder still about MLF. Should I induce MLF?

I still don't know how i will come down on this.

My inclination is to do it.

My initial plan is to have (4) 32-gal primaries holding 25 gal each,
and nearing the end of alchoholic fermentation, induce MLF.

Thoughts?

My primaries.
http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pro...f0d551_300.jpg

Wayne Harris wrote:

This is revisiting an old post of mine.

I plan to really up my game this September. I
am buying 1400lbs of
grapes. (huge purchase for me)

And as the planning steps fill my everyday
thoughts as they do, I contemplate everything.

Many of you have answered previous questions and
I thank you.

But I wonder still about MLF. Should I induce
MLF?

I still don't know how i will come down on this.

My inclination is to do it.

My initial plan is to have (4) 32-gal primaries
holding 25 gal each, and nearing the end of
alchoholic fermentation, induce MLF.

Thoughts?

My primaries.

http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pro...f0d551_300.jpg

Unless you keep your pH low and or have a good
level of SO2 throughout the aging process, you
probably will have MLF whether you pitch it or
not.

The point is that there are natural MLF bacteria
on grapes brought in from the field. The
difference is that like yeasts, there are
different strains of MLF bacteria. Some native
MLF can produce good results and others NOT good
results. In my opinion, it is best to have
control of the MLF and choose a strain that has a
better chance of producing GOOD results.

I will be posting a summary of an article in the
May/June issue of "Practical Winery & Vineyard"
in a new thread when I get a chance to re-read
and type it up. It deals with Biogenic Amines
and Ethyl Carbamate.

"Practical Winery & Vineyard" is a good magazine
for the serious amateur or commercial grower /
winemaker. Some of the articles are indeed too
technical for beginners or non serious amateurs
but I usually always find articles of interest
that I can understand and find useful.

The article, in part, states that there could be
some compounds produced by "natural" yeast and
"natural" MLF bacteria that "may" not be good for
your health or produce some unpleasant side
effects. The article also brings up some issues
with extended maceration and pH values of 3.7 or
higher. Stay tuned.

The first question you need to answer - is MLF desirable in the variety
/ style of wine you're making.

IF you're making a still red wine, then generally MLF is desirable. ong
bottle aging requires maximum stability, so most still red wines are
put through MLF. If you're making a still white wine, the the question
becomes more stylistic. I tend to prefer my white wines very crisp - so
I do not induce MLF, and use lysozyme to suppress. But if I'm making a
rich, CA-style Chardonnay, then i might be inclined to put through MLF,
or partial MLF.

If I do choose to put a wine through MLF, I would argue for using a
commercial MLF bacteria. Otherwise, as Paul pointed out, you're playing
Russian roullette with whatever other malic consuming bacteria might
already be present.

Are your 1400 pounds all one variety?


On 2008-05-14 18:16:08 -0700, Wayne Harris said:

This is revisiting an old post of mine.

I plan to really up my game this September. I am buying 1400lbs of
grapes. (huge purchase for me)

And as the planning steps fill my everyday thoughts as they do, I
contemplate everything.

Many of you have answered previous questions and I thank you.

But I wonder still about MLF. Should I induce MLF?

I still don't know how i will come down on this.

My inclination is to do it.

My initial plan is to have (4) 32-gal primaries holding 25 gal each,
and nearing the end of alchoholic fermentation, induce MLF.

Thoughts?

My primaries.
http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pro...f0d551_300.jpg

On May 15, 11:38*am, AxisOfBeagles wrote:
The first question you need to answer - is MLF desirable in the variety
/ style of wine you're making.

IF you're making a still red wine, then generally MLF is desirable. ong
bottle aging requires maximum stability, so most still red wines are
put through MLF. If you're making a still white wine, the the question
becomes more stylistic. I tend to prefer my white wines very crisp - so
I do not induce MLF, and use lysozyme to suppress. But if I'm making a
rich, CA-style Chardonnay, then i might be inclined to put through MLF,
or partial MLF.

If I do choose to put a wine through MLF, I would argue for using a
commercial MLF bacteria. Otherwise, as Paul pointed out, you're playing
Russian roullette with whatever other malic consuming bacteria might
already be present.

Are your 1400 pounds all one variety?

On 2008-05-14 18:16:08 -0700, Wayne Harris said:



This is revisiting an old post of mine.

I plan to really up my game this September. *I am buying 1400lbs of
grapes. *(huge purchase for me)

And as the planning steps fill my everyday thoughts as they do, I
contemplate everything.

Many of you have answered previous questions and I thank you.

But I wonder still about MLF. *Should I induce MLF?

I still don't know how i will come down on this.

My inclination is to do it.

My initial plan is to have (4) 32-gal primaries holding 25 gal each,
and nearing the end of alchoholic fermentation, induce MLF.

Thoughts?

My primaries.
http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pro...-4dcb-8ad3...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thanks,
My 1400lbs is all Lodi California Cabernet Sauvignon. I plan on
using

Wayne Harris wrote:

On May 15, 11:38*am, AxisOfBeagles
wrote:
The first question you need to answer - is MLF
desirable in the variety / style of wine you're
making.

IF you're making a still red wine, then
generally MLF is desirable. ong bottle aging
requires maximum stability, so most still red
wines are put through MLF. If you're making a
still white wine, the the question becomes more
stylistic. I tend to prefer my white wines very
crisp - so I do not induce MLF, and use
lysozyme to suppress. But if I'm making a rich,
CA-style Chardonnay, then i might be inclined
to put through MLF, or partial MLF.

If I do choose to put a wine through MLF, I
would argue for using a commercial MLF
bacteria. Otherwise, as Paul pointed out,
you're playing Russian roullette with whatever
other malic consuming bacteria might already be
present.

Are your 1400 pounds all one variety?

On 2008-05-14 18:16:08 -0700, Wayne Harris
said:



This is revisiting an old post of mine.

I plan to really up my game this September.
I am buying 1400lbs of grapes. *(huge
purchase for me)

And as the planning steps fill my everyday
thoughts as they do, I contemplate
everything.

Many of you have answered previous questions
and I thank you.

But I wonder still about MLF. *Should I
induce MLF?

I still don't know how i will come down on
this.

My inclination is to do it.

My initial plan is to have (4) 32-gal
primaries holding 25 gal each, and nearing
the end of alchoholic fermentation, induce
MLF.

Thoughts?

My primaries.

http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pro...-4dcb-8ad3...-
Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thanks,
My 1400lbs is all Lodi California Cabernet
Sauvignon. I plan on using

Have you gotten grapes from there before?
What style of wine do you like - old world or new
world?

My guess is that they will be high brix, low acid
and high pH.

I commend you on making a lot of wine and going
for the gusto. Since you are, and have a lot of
money and time invested, it might be worthwhile
to have some chemistries run by a commercial lab
and lower your risk of producing a flabby, high
alcohol, high pH wine that may not be what you
want or expect.

On May 15, 9:25*pm, "Paul E. Lehmann" wrote:
Wayne Harris wrote:
On May 15, 11:38*am, AxisOfBeagles
wrote:
The first question you need to answer - is MLF
desirable in the variety / style of wine you're
making.

IF you're making a still red wine, then
generally MLF is desirable. ong bottle aging
requires maximum stability, so most still red
wines are put through MLF. If you're making a
still white wine, the the question becomes more
stylistic. I tend to prefer my white wines very
crisp - so I do not induce MLF, and use
lysozyme to suppress. But if I'm making a rich,
CA-style Chardonnay, then i might be inclined
to put through MLF, or partial MLF.

If I do choose to put a wine through MLF, I
would argue for using a commercial MLF
bacteria. Otherwise, as Paul pointed out,
you're playing Russian roullette with whatever
other malic consuming bacteria might already be
present.

Are your 1400 pounds all one variety?

On 2008-05-14 18:16:08 -0700, Wayne Harris
said:

This is revisiting an old post of mine.

I plan to really up my game this September.
I am buying 1400lbs of grapes. *(huge
purchase for me)

And as the planning steps fill my everyday
thoughts as they do, I contemplate
everything.

Many of you have answered previous questions
and I thank you.

But I wonder still about MLF. *Should I
induce MLF?

I still don't know how i will come down on
this.

My inclination is to do it.

My initial plan is to have (4) 32-gal
primaries holding 25 gal each, and nearing
the end of alchoholic fermentation, induce
MLF.

Thoughts?

My primaries.

http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pro...7600-4dcb-8ad3...
Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thanks,
My 1400lbs is all Lodi California Cabernet
Sauvignon. *I plan on using

Have you gotten grapes from there before?
What style of wine do you like - old world or new
world?

My guess is that they will be high brix, low acid
and high pH. *

I commend you on making a lot of wine and going
for the gusto. *Since you are, and have a lot of
money and time invested, it might be worthwhile
o have some chemistries run by a commercial lab
and lower your risk of producing a flabby, high
alcohol, high pH wine that may not be what you
want or expect.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I can check my own S02, TA, SG, and Alcohol.

at 100 gallons, think i should still have it measured at a commercial
lab?
Any labs you have worked with?

Wayne Harris wrote:

On May 15, 9:25*pm, "Paul E. Lehmann"
wrote:
Wayne Harris wrote:
On May 15, 11:38*am, AxisOfBeagles
wrote:
The first question you need to answer - is
MLF desirable in the variety / style of wine
you're making.

IF you're making a still red wine, then
generally MLF is desirable. ong bottle aging
requires maximum stability, so most still
red wines are put through MLF. If you're
making a still white wine, the the question
becomes more stylistic. I tend to prefer my
white wines very crisp - so I do not induce
MLF, and use lysozyme to suppress. But if
I'm making a rich, CA-style Chardonnay, then
i might be inclined to put through MLF, or
partial MLF.

If I do choose to put a wine through MLF, I
would argue for using a commercial MLF
bacteria. Otherwise, as Paul pointed out,
you're playing Russian roullette with
whatever other malic consuming bacteria
might already be present.

Are your 1400 pounds all one variety?

On 2008-05-14 18:16:08 -0700, Wayne Harris
said:

This is revisiting an old post of mine.

I plan to really up my game this
September. I am buying 1400lbs of grapes.
(huge purchase for me)

And as the planning steps fill my everyday
thoughts as they do, I contemplate
everything.

Many of you have answered previous
questions and I thank you.

But I wonder still about MLF. *Should I
induce MLF?

I still don't know how i will come down on
this.

My inclination is to do it.

My initial plan is to have (4) 32-gal
primaries holding 25 gal each, and nearing
the end of alchoholic fermentation, induce
MLF.

Thoughts?

My primaries.


http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pro...7600-4dcb-8ad3...
Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thanks,
My 1400lbs is all Lodi California Cabernet
Sauvignon. *I plan on using

Have you gotten grapes from there before?
What style of wine do you like - old world or
new world?

My guess is that they will be high brix, low
acid and high pH.

I commend you on making a lot of wine and going
for the gusto. *Since you are, and have a lot
of money and time invested, it might be
worthwhile o have some chemistries run by a
commercial lab and lower your risk of producing
a flabby, high alcohol, high pH wine that may
not be what you want or expect.- Hide quoted
text -

- Show quoted text -

I can check my own S02, TA, SG, and Alcohol.

at 100 gallons, think i should still have it
measured at a commercial lab?
Any labs you have worked with?

I do not have SO2 apparatus (on my Christmas wish
list). If you have confidence in your analysis
and have good equipment then that is fine.

In the past I have used Vinquiry out in
California. I have recently discovered that the
Enology Department at Virginia Tech will do lab
analysis also and their price is better - and
they are close to me.

On May 21, 3:46*pm, "Paul E. Lehmann" wrote:
Wayne Harris wrote:
On May 15, 9:25*pm, "Paul E. Lehmann"
wrote:
Wayne Harris wrote:
On May 15, 11:38*am, AxisOfBeagles
wrote:
The first question you need to answer - is
MLF desirable in the variety / style of wine
you're making.

IF you're making a still red wine, then
generally MLF is desirable. ong bottle aging
requires maximum stability, so most still
red wines are put through MLF. If you're
making a still white wine, the the question
becomes more stylistic. I tend to prefer my
white wines very crisp - so I do not induce
MLF, and use lysozyme to suppress. But if
I'm making a rich, CA-style Chardonnay, then
i might be inclined to put through MLF, or
partial MLF.

If I do choose to put a wine through MLF, I
would argue for using a commercial MLF
bacteria. Otherwise, as Paul pointed out,
you're playing Russian roullette with
whatever other malic consuming bacteria
might already be present.

Are your 1400 pounds all one variety?

On 2008-05-14 18:16:08 -0700, Wayne Harris
said:

This is revisiting an old post of mine.

I plan to really up my game this
September. I am buying 1400lbs of grapes.
(huge purchase for me)

And as the planning steps fill my everyday
thoughts as they do, I contemplate
everything.

Many of you have answered previous
questions and I thank you.

But I wonder still about MLF. *Should I
induce MLF?

I still don't know how i will come down on
this.

My inclination is to do it.

My initial plan is to have (4) 32-gal
primaries holding 25 gal each, and nearing
the end of alchoholic fermentation, induce
MLF.

Thoughts?

My primaries.

http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pro...7600-4dcb-8ad3...
Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thanks,
My 1400lbs is all Lodi California Cabernet
Sauvignon. *I plan on using

Have you gotten grapes from there before?
What style of wine do you like - old world or
new world?

My guess is that they will be high brix, low
acid and high pH.

I commend you on making a lot of wine and going
for the gusto. *Since you are, and have a lot
of money and time invested, it might be
worthwhile o have some chemistries run by a
commercial lab and lower your risk of producing
a flabby, high alcohol, high pH wine that may
not be what you want or expect.- Hide quoted
text -

- Show quoted text -

I can check my own S02, TA, SG, and Alcohol.

at 100 gallons, think i should still have it
measured at a commercial lab?
Any labs you have worked with?

I do not have SO2 apparatus (on my Christmas wish
list). *If you have confidence in your analysis
and have good equipment then that is fine.

In the past I have used Vinquiry out in
California. *I have recently discovered that the
Enology Department at Virginia Tech will do lab
analysis also and their price is better - and
they are close to me.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

this is all i use for my S02
http://morewinemaking.com/view_product/19506/103333
Confidence?

Who needs confidence when i am still blissfully ignorant of what can
go wrong....

lol

thanks for the tip, I will look into both.

On May 21, 5:06*pm, Wayne Harris wrote:
On May 21, 3:46*pm, "Paul E. Lehmann" wrote:





Wayne Harris wrote:
On May 15, 9:25*pm, "Paul E. Lehmann"
wrote:
Wayne Harris wrote:
On May 15, 11:38*am, AxisOfBeagles
wrote:
The first question you need to answer - is
MLF desirable in the variety / style of wine
you're making.

IF you're making a still red wine, then
generally MLF is desirable. ong bottle aging
requires maximum stability, so most still
red wines are put through MLF. If you're
making a still white wine, the the question
becomes more stylistic. I tend to prefer my
white wines very crisp - so I do not induce
MLF, and use lysozyme to suppress. But if
I'm making a rich, CA-style Chardonnay, then
i might be inclined to put through MLF, or
partial MLF.

If I do choose to put a wine through MLF, I
would argue for using a commercial MLF
bacteria. Otherwise, as Paul pointed out,
you're playing Russian roullette with
whatever other malic consuming bacteria
might already be present.

Are your 1400 pounds all one variety?

On 2008-05-14 18:16:08 -0700, Wayne Harris
said:

This is revisiting an old post of mine.

I plan to really up my game this
September. I am buying 1400lbs of grapes.
(huge purchase for me)

And as the planning steps fill my everyday
thoughts as they do, I contemplate
everything.

Many of you have answered previous
questions and I thank you.

But I wonder still about MLF. *Should I
induce MLF?

I still don't know how i will come down on
this.

My inclination is to do it.

My initial plan is to have (4) 32-gal
primaries holding 25 gal each, and nearing
the end of alchoholic fermentation, induce
MLF.

Thoughts?

My primaries.

http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pro...7600-4dcb-8ad3....
Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thanks,
My 1400lbs is all Lodi California Cabernet
Sauvignon. *I plan on using

Have you gotten grapes from there before?
What style of wine do you like - old world or
new world?

My guess is that they will be high brix, low
acid and high pH.

I commend you on making a lot of wine and going
for the gusto. *Since you are, and have a lot
of money and time invested, it might be
worthwhile o have some chemistries run by a
commercial lab and lower your risk of producing
a flabby, high alcohol, high pH wine that may
not be what you want or expect.- Hide quoted
text -

- Show quoted text -

I can check my own S02, TA, SG, and Alcohol.

at 100 gallons, think i should still have it
measured at a commercial lab?
Any labs you have worked with?

I do not have SO2 apparatus (on my Christmas wish
list). *If you have confidence in your analysis
and have good equipment then that is fine.

In the past I have used Vinquiry out in
California. *I have recently discovered that the
Enology Department at Virginia Tech will do lab
analysis also and their price is better - and
they are close to me.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

this is all i use for my S02http://morewinemaking.com/view_product/19506/103333
Confidence?

Who needs confidence when i am still blissfully ignorant of what can
go wrong....

lol

thanks for the tip, I will look into both.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Speaking of Christmas Gifts.
Look what just made my wish list.

http://www.infowine.com/default.asp?scheda=6670

clipped the unrelated stuff

I can check my own S02, TA, SG, and Alcohol.
at 100 gallons, think i should still have it
measured at a commercial lab?
Any labs you have worked with?
I do not have SO2 apparatus (on my Christmas wish
list). If you have confidence in your analysis
and have good equipment then that is fine.
In the past I have used Vinquiry out in
California. I have recently discovered that the
Enology Department at Virginia Tech will do lab
analysis also and their price is better - and
they are close to me.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
this is all i use for my S02http://morewinemaking.com/view_product/19506/103333
Confidence?

Who needs confidence when i am still blissfully ignorant of what can
go wrong....

lol

thanks for the tip, I will look into both.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Speaking of Christmas Gifts.
Look what just made my wish list.

http://www.infowine.com/default.asp?scheda=6670

I'd substitute the EM Sciences Reflectoquant instead of that one on my
Christmas list.
http://www.emdchemicals.com/analytic...lectoquant.pdf

I'm still a skeptic about the accuracy of the 'all-in-one' wine analysis
methodology from that vendor (having used the big brother machine a
couple of years ago with sometimes frustrating results).
It's precision (i.e. repeatability) was good, but the accuracy was
spotty. Alcohol in the wine caused the other wine component numbers to
shift (relative to single-component wine industry 'tried-and-true'
laboratory analysis methods). So, while I was satisfied with it for
doing grape must analysis, the results weren't (for me, YMMV) very
believable as a mid-ferment monitor nor for grape must versus finished
wine comparisons.

A published reference which echoes my frustrations appeared recently in
the Analytical Chemistry research journal of the American Chemical Society

http://pubs.acs.org/subscribe/journa...ure_bauer.html

Read the "Challenges" section of that article.

Also, it took a LOT of independent samples to develop reasonable
calibration of the instrument. And when the detector took a dump
mid-crush, it was start-all-over-with-the-calibration-time. Twas not a
happy experience. Good thing we had our traditional analysis methods
equipment as back-up.

The accuracy of the Reflectoquant is, IMHO, good enough for home
winemaking. A number of us do Reflectoquant analysis at our local home
winemaking shop ( http://www.thebeveragepeople.com/winemaking.htm ) for
our hobby wines [separate tests using specialized test strips for malic
acid and free SO2; other useful tests (tartaric acid, total acidity,
ammonia) can also be done on this colorimetric analyzer].
And it's not too expensive (under $1000) to consider purchasing the
instrument, for those (especially groups of home winemakers to share)
who do not have one locally available for use as a service.

Gene