A friend of mine asked this question a while ago but the question
didn't really get an answer I could use so I am going to try to
rephrase it to see if anyone can help. I live in the UK. Access to
reasonably priced wine grapes is extremely limited and I am not
wealthy at the moment. I could make expensive crushendo style kits
once a year - I have a gallon made from my parents-in-law's
grapes...

The red wines I like to buy are heavy, tannic and oaky. I also like
wines which are fruity and have bite. A simple smooth, oaky / berry
flavour is great too... I want to make a staple decent country red
wine, preferably one I can make all year round. The thing is that I
want it to have properties similar to the reds I like to buy. So I got
to thinking of how I might achieve this. So far my brain is saying
maybe an elderberry and blackberry base with a few canned
blackcherries, some raisins and some oak chips, a touch of tea even,
might make the kind of effect I want. I am only 18 months into my
winemaking career, so I have yet to taste more than 3 of the 30 wines
I have in progress. Within the next year I guess I might be able to
make more educated guesses.

This is probably a very common newbie question. Has anyone ever
devised a recipe with this aim in mind?

Jim

My story is much the same as yours. I've been trying to figure out how
to make "big" red wines at home like the commercial wines I usually
buy. Here in the States wine grape concentrates are readily available,
as are table grapes, and other fruit juice concentrates. My first few
batches made entirely from grape juice concentrate were ok, but
completely unimpressive. They reminded me of those three or four
dollar wines one can find at the grocery store.

I've experimented with Raisins as both an additive and a wine base;
the results didn't merit their continued use. I've also been
experimenting with a variety of berry blends in both country wines and
melomels. It's too early for me to comment on the results, but
blueberries and blackberries should be excellent ingredients for the
type of wine you are after.

I've read that an old (and illegal) trick in Burgundy is to add some
Elderberries to the grapes when making Pinot Noir. This led me to
experiment with Elderberries as a wine base. I recently finished a
batch that was made from: 1/3 Elderberry wine from concentrate, 1/3
Cabernet Sauvignon from concentrate, 1/6 from Black Seedless table
grapes, and 1/6 from mixed Vinifera from concentrate. At bottling,
this wine was showing a lot of promise; much "bigger" than my earlier
attempts. I'm looking forward to sampling it in a year. I already
have a second similar batch bulk aging.

My best advice is for you to experiment with the ingredients you have.
In time you will likely develop a recipe that will suit your tastes.

Regards,

Greg G.

On Dec 18, 4:29 am, wrote:
> My story is much the same as yours. I've been trying to figure out how
> to make "big" red wines at home like the commercial wines I usually
> buy. Here in the States wine grape concentrates are readily available,
> as are table grapes, and other fruit juice concentrates. My first few
> batches made entirely from grape juice concentrate were ok, but
> completely unimpressive. They reminded me of those three or four
> dollar wines one can find at the grocery store.
>
> I've experimented with Raisins as both an additive and a wine base;
> the results didn't merit their continued use. I've also been
> experimenting with a variety of berry blends in both country wines and
> melomels. It's too early for me to comment on the results, but
> blueberries and blackberries should be excellent ingredients for the
> type of wine you are after.
>
> I've read that an old (and illegal) trick in Burgundy is to add some
> Elderberries to the grapes when making Pinot Noir. This led me to
> experiment with Elderberries as a wine base. I recently finished a
> batch that was made from: 1/3 Elderberry wine from concentrate, 1/3
> Cabernet Sauvignon from concentrate, 1/6 from Black Seedless table
> grapes, and 1/6 from mixed Vinifera from concentrate. At bottling,
> this wine was showing a lot of promise; much "bigger" than my earlier
> attempts. I'm looking forward to sampling it in a year. I already
> have a second similar batch bulk aging.
>
> My best advice is for you to experiment with the ingredients you have.
> In time you will likely develop a recipe that will suit your tastes.
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg G.

Thanks Greg, yes I will continue to do so. Dried elderberries are so
ridiculously cheap that I can make a couple of dozen gallons of that a
year if I like it enough. I have a frozen blueberry wine on the go
that tastes pretty awesome and of course the blackberry wine is
gorgeous. Thanks for your input. I may be onto a winner with
elderberries, fresh blackberries - free except for cuts to my hands -
all summer and autumn and frozen blueberries with a touch of raisin to
add a vinosity to the batch. I might spend the next few years playing
with that, current (sic) results permitting.

Cheers again for the reply.

Jim

"jim" > wrote in message
...
>A friend of mine asked this question a while ago but the question
> didn't really get an answer I could use so I am going to try to
> rephrase it to see if anyone can help. I live in the UK. Access to
> reasonably priced wine grapes is extremely limited and I am not
> wealthy at the moment. I could make expensive crushendo style kits
> once a year - I have a gallon made from my parents-in-law's
> grapes...
>
> The red wines I like to buy are heavy, tannic and oaky. I also like
> wines which are fruity and have bite. A simple smooth, oaky / berry
> flavour is great too... I want to make a staple decent country red
> wine, preferably one I can make all year round. The thing is that I
> want it to have properties similar to the reds I like to buy. So I got
> to thinking of how I might achieve this. So far my brain is saying
> maybe an elderberry and blackberry base with a few canned
> blackcherries, some raisins and some oak chips, a touch of tea even,
> might make the kind of effect I want. I am only 18 months into my
> winemaking career, so I have yet to taste more than 3 of the 30 wines
> I have in progress. Within the next year I guess I might be able to
> make more educated guesses.
>
> This is probably a very common newbie question. Has anyone ever
> devised a recipe with this aim in mind?
>
> Jim

I make an elderberry blend that turned out very well. I started making wine
about 12 years ago because we had several Concord and Delaware vines on the
property and most of the fruit was going to waste; you can only eat so many
grapes in a season. The wines were nice and fruity with a good bouquet but I
wanted more "depth" to the taste.

Noticing that we also had several elderberry bushes growing here and there,
I was reminded of the elderberry wine motif from "Arsenic and Old Lace." So
I ended up experimenting with pure elderberry wine, elderberry melomels and
the grape/elderberry blend which I call "Isaac Wine."

The 2001 recipe can be found at:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/rbfarm/mwine.html

This recipe calls for boiling the elderberries but I've taken to adding the
elderberries raw in more recent vintages with no noticeable difference.

By strange coincidence, I pulled a bottle of my 2002 Isaac for dinner last
night. It had aged well. Maybe next time I'll try one of the last few
bottles of the 2001 Isaac.

You mentioned blackberries; I made a 3-gallon batch this year with equal
parts of elderberries, blackberries and Concords. I'll post the results in a
year or so.

Paul

On Dec 23, 2:31 pm, "Pavel314" > wrote:
> "jim" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> >A friend of mine asked this question a while ago but the question
> > didn't really get an answer I could use so I am going to try to
> > rephrase it to see if anyone can help. I live in the UK. Access to
> > reasonably priced wine grapes is extremely limited and I am not
> > wealthy at the moment. I could make expensive crushendo style kits
> > once a year - I have a gallon made from my parents-in-law's
> > grapes...
>
> > The red wines I like to buy are heavy, tannic and oaky. I also like
> > wines which are fruity and have bite. A simple smooth, oaky / berry
> > flavour is great too... I want to make a staple decent country red
> > wine, preferably one I can make all year round. The thing is that I
> > want it to have properties similar to the reds I like to buy. So I got
> > to thinking of how I might achieve this. So far my brain is saying
> > maybe an elderberry and blackberry base with a few canned
> > blackcherries, some raisins and some oak chips, a touch of tea even,
> > might make the kind of effect I want. I am only 18 months into my
> > winemaking career, so I have yet to taste more than 3 of the 30 wines
> > I have in progress. Within the next year I guess I might be able to
> > make more educated guesses.
>
> > This is probably a very common newbie question. Has anyone ever
> > devised a recipe with this aim in mind?
>
> > Jim
>
> I make an elderberry blend that turned out very well. I started making wine
> about 12 years ago because we had several Concord and Delaware vines on the
> property and most of the fruit was going to waste; you can only eat so many
> grapes in a season. The wines were nice and fruity with a good bouquet but I
> wanted more "depth" to the taste.
>
> Noticing that we also had several elderberry bushes growing here and there,
> I was reminded of the elderberry wine motif from "Arsenic and Old Lace." So
> I ended up experimenting with pure elderberry wine, elderberry melomels and
> the grape/elderberry blend which I call "Isaac Wine."
>
> The 2001 recipe can be found at:
>
> http://mywebpages.comcast.net/rbfarm/mwine.html
>
> This recipe calls for boiling the elderberries but I've taken to adding the
> elderberries raw in more recent vintages with no noticeable difference.
>
> By strange coincidence, I pulled a bottle of my 2002 Isaac for dinner last
> night. It had aged well. Maybe next time I'll try one of the last few
> bottles of the 2001 Isaac.
>
> You mentioned blackberries; I made a 3-gallon batch this year with equal
> parts of elderberries, blackberries and Concords. I'll post the results in a
> year or so.
>
> Paul

Very interesting, thanks for sharing the info Paul. I will let you
know how my blackberry wine gets on too. If it continues as it is it
should be wonderful.

Jim