Hi. Here I go with my first post to this group. I've enjoyed
following it for some time from the side lines.

Here's my question...

I am making about 3 gallons of an apple wine that I started with some
lovely fresh apples. All was going exceedingly well until this week
all seems to have stopped. I have been watching the batch carefully
and there is definitely nothing going on inside that carboy. The
spec.gravity has stopped at 1025, so it's not quite ready to finish
just yet.

I have done some reading about re-starting the fermentation process,
what I wanted was some opinions on what might be going on. I also
want to be bold and just outright ask "What WOULD happen if I just
added more yeast to the batch, obviously there is still sugar to feed
the yeast, etc?"

I realize this is my ignorance showing and I appreciate what guidance
can be offered in return.

Cheers, thanks.

Chris Mears
Charlottetown, PEI, Canada

hi chris & welcome... can you tell us please: what was yr starting SG &
what yeast did you use? did you taking any other readings like TA or pH?
also what else besides apples is in the 3 gals you've got going? You can
always pitch more yeast...but that could just stall too. More info will
allow your question to be answered more thoroughly. regards, bob


"chrismears" wrote in message
...
Hi. Here I go with my first post to this group. I've enjoyed
following it for some time from the side lines.

Here's my question...

I am making about 3 gallons of an apple wine that I started with some
lovely fresh apples. All was going exceedingly well until this week
all seems to have stopped. I have been watching the batch carefully
and there is definitely nothing going on inside that carboy. The
spec.gravity has stopped at 1025, so it's not quite ready to finish
just yet.

I have done some reading about re-starting the fermentation process,
what I wanted was some opinions on what might be going on. I also
want to be bold and just outright ask "What WOULD happen if I just
added more yeast to the batch, obviously there is still sugar to feed
the yeast, etc?"

I realize this is my ignorance showing and I appreciate what guidance
can be offered in return.

Cheers, thanks.

Chris Mears
Charlottetown, PEI, Canada

On Nov 23, 3:46 pm, chrismears wrote:
Hi. Here I go with my first post to this group. I've enjoyed
following it for some time from the side lines.

Here's my question...

I am making about 3 gallons of an apple wine that I started with some
lovely fresh apples. All was going exceedingly well until this week
all seems to have stopped. I have been watching the batch carefully
and there is definitely nothing going on inside that carboy. The
spec.gravity has stopped at 1025, so it's not quite ready to finish
just yet.

I have done some reading about re-starting the fermentation process,
what I wanted was some opinions on what might be going on. I also
want to be bold and just outright ask "What WOULD happen if I just
added more yeast to the batch, obviously there is still sugar to feed
the yeast, etc?"

I realize this is my ignorance showing and I appreciate what guidance
can be offered in return.

Cheers, thanks.

Chris Mears
Charlottetown, PEI, Canada

Well, first make sure it's warm enough, most yeasts work better from
20 to 30C. Just adding yeast to a stuck fermentation usually ends up
in more wasted yeast. You are better off building a starter and
feeding it into the batch a bit at a time (pull off some of the batch
and add it to the starter, not the other way around).

Joe.

On Nov 23, 7:13 pm, "bobdrob" wrote:
hi chris & welcome... can you tell us please: what was yr starting SG &
what yeast did you use? did you taking any other readings like TA or pH?
also what else besides apples is in the 3 gals you've got going? You can
always pitch more yeast...but that could just stall too. More info will
allow your question to be answered more thoroughly. regards, bob

Hi. The recipe is just a basic apples+water+sugar+yeast (+nutrient,
campden, etc). I didn't take any extra readings when I put this one
together, but the initial SG was at 1100. The batch is about a month
and a half old and has been a very slow product so far - the slow bit
I'm not at all worried with. It's being kept in my pantry, so it is
at about room temperature all the time.
Cheers
Chris

Well, first make sure it's warm enough, most yeasts work better from
20 to 30C. Just adding yeast to a stuck fermentation usually ends up
in more wasted yeast. You are better off building a starter and
feeding it into the batch a bit at a time (pull off some of the batch
and add it to the starter, not the other way around).

Joe.

Hi. Is there a special starter I should use to re-start this? Room
temperature shouldn't be an issue - it's being kept in my pantry so it
is always warm enough. In other news, I have a second lovely batch
that is working out well; it is clearing now and I am looking forward
to bottling it soon.
Cheers
Chris

"chrismears" wrote in message
...
On Nov 23, 7:13 pm, "bobdrob" wrote:
hi chris & welcome... can you tell us please: what was yr starting SG
&
what yeast did you use? did you taking any other readings like TA or pH?
also what else besides apples is in the 3 gals you've got going? You can
always pitch more yeast...but that could just stall too. More info will
allow your question to be answered more thoroughly. regards, bob

Hi. The recipe is just a basic apples+water+sugar+yeast (+nutrient,
campden, etc). I didn't take any extra readings when I put this one
together, but the initial SG was at 1100. The batch is about a month
and a half old and has been a very slow product so far - the slow bit
I'm not at all worried with. It's being kept in my pantry, so it is
at about room temperature all the time.
Cheers
Chris

Uhhhm, if the original SG was 1.110, then your in the potential alky-hol
range of 20+ % , or as we like to refer to it, knockout juice! my cohorts &
i 've been making KO-J for a couple of years.Being in that range suggests
that yr yeasties gave it their all then gave up the ghost; if you're in that
range, restarting the yeast is an option that will involve propagating a
large, more alcohol tolerant batch to pitch & will take a few days to
accomplish. Alternatively, have you tasted it yet? If your culture partyed
itself into yeast-oblivion @ 20% potential alcohol, try it; it may have a
pleasant sweetness to it before it sends you down tipsy street. If this is
the case, fret no more- let it sit to clarify racking as usual, etc. We've
bottled 4 batches of incompletely fermented KO-J w/o a bottlebomb to date.
If that makes you nervous, then hit it w/ some potassium sorbate before
bottling. If you want to ferment to dryness, then start your yeast in about
a quart of non-sorbated juice. Once it gets going, add a cup of yr stuck
wine, let it culture & keep adding stuck winein 1-2 cup increments until you
get a vigorous & thriving gallon of yeast . Then pitch that... I like lalvin
1118 in KO-J settings. HTH

On Nov 24, 11:36 am, "bobdrob" wrote:
"chrismears" wrote in message

...

On Nov 23, 7:13 pm, "bobdrob" wrote:
hi chris & welcome... can you tell us please: what was yr starting SG
&
what yeast did you use? did you taking any other readings like TA or pH?
also what else besides apples is in the 3 gals you've got going? You can
always pitch more yeast...but that could just stall too. More info will
allow your question to be answered more thoroughly. regards, bob

Hi. The recipe is just a basic apples+water+sugar+yeast (+nutrient,
campden, etc). I didn't take any extra readings when I put this one
together, but the initial SG was at 1100. The batch is about a month
and a half old and has been a very slow product so far - the slow bit
I'm not at all worried with. It's being kept in my pantry, so it is
at about room temperature all the time.
Cheers
Chris

Uhhhm, if the original SG was 1.110, then your in the potential alky-hol
range of 20+ % , or as we like to refer to it, knockout juice! my cohorts &

Bobdrob, you might want to recheck your SG table. 1.100 SG is only
going to give you 13.4% alcohol, and 1.110 is 14.9%.

Chris, I had a stuck fermentation with some Peach I did a couple years
back. What I did to get it going was to prepare a new starter using
apple juice. Once that was going strong I add small amounts of the
stuck juice to this starter over the next three days until I had added
in the all the juice from the stuck fermentation. For the stuck
fermentation I used yeast that is good for restarting a stuck
fermentation. Options are Red Star Premier Curvee, Lalvin 43, Lalvin
EC-1118, Lalvin K1-V1116, etc. There are more listed at
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/strains.asp. Also add some yeast
energizer per package directions to ensure a strong starter. If you
use dry yeast make sure to re-hydrate it properly before addiing it to
your starter.

Here are some other links you might find useful:
http://www.yobrew.co.uk/stuck.php
http://www.grapestompers.com/article...rmentation.htm

Good Luck,
Steve

Hi. Is there a special starter I should use to re-start this? Room
temperature shouldn't be an issue - it's being kept in my pantry so it
is always warm enough.

Steve's post already gave you great advice and the correct value of
'potential alcohol' for 1.100SG. (My tables came from NBS so I know
they are right.) The only thing I would expand on is the amount of
time to give it to get going. Starters need to get going really well
before you add them to the total volume. I keep doubling the volume
of the starter and let it get back to fermenting strongly.

13% ABV for an apple wine might be a little heavy duty; if this died at around 9 or 10 % I might be happy with that. I show that as 1.022 to 1.029 S.G.

bobdrob,
I show 1.115 as 19.3 % ABV; I have the book at home that probably
takes them higher; I have spreadsheet I made on my work PC. I can
email you the spreadsheet.

Joe

On Nov 24, 10:27 am, chrismears wrote:
On Nov 23, 7:13 pm, "bobdrob" wrote:

hi chris & welcome... can you tell us please: what was yr starting SG &
what yeast did you use? did you taking any other readings like TA or pH?
also what else besides apples is in the 3 gals you've got going? You can
always pitch more yeast...but that could just stall too. More info will
allow your question to be answered more thoroughly. regards, bob

Hi. The recipe is just a basic apples+water+sugar+yeast (+nutrient,
campden, etc). I didn't take any extra readings when I put this one
together, but the initial SG was at 1100. The batch is about a month
and a half old and has been a very slow product so far - the slow bit
I'm not at all worried with. It's being kept in my pantry, so it is
at about room temperature all the time.
Cheers
Chris

For future reference, over a month at room temperature is too slow for
a healthy ferment, espically if there is still so much sugar left.
Most likely cause is there is not enough active yeast in the batch,
possibly also lack of nutrients. Definitely do a strong starter with a
new strong yeast and restart the ferment.

Pp

Joe Sallustio wrote:


Hi. Is there a special starter I should use to
re-start this? Room temperature shouldn't be
an issue - it's being kept in my pantry so it
is always warm enough.

Steve's post already gave you great advice and
the correct value of
'potential alcohol' for 1.100SG. (My tables
came from NBS so I know
they are right.) The only thing I would expand
on is the amount of
time to give it to get going. Starters need to
get going really well
before you add them to the total volume. I
keep doubling the volume of the starter and let
it get back to fermenting strongly.

13% ABV for an apple wine might be a little
heavy duty; if this died at around 9 or 10 % I
might be happy with that. I show that as 1.022
to 1.029 S.G.

bobdrob,
I show 1.115 as 19.3 % ABV; I have the book at
home that probably
takes them higher; I have spreadsheet I made on
my work PC. I can email you the spreadsheet.

Joe

Joe, are you sure of that? I quick check on my
program shows 1.115 SG to be equivalent to 15.78
Brix and the PA to be 15.78

On Nov 26, 11:46 am, "Paul E. Lehmann" wrote:
Joe Sallustio wrote:

Hi. Is there a special starter I should use to
re-start this? Room temperature shouldn't be
an issue - it's being kept in my pantry so it
is always warm enough.

Steve's post already gave you great advice and
the correct value of
'potential alcohol' for 1.100SG. (My tables
came from NBS so I know
they are right.) The only thing I would expand
on is the amount of
time to give it to get going. Starters need to
get going really well
before you add them to the total volume. I
keep doubling the volume of the starter and let
it get back to fermenting strongly.

13% ABV for an apple wine might be a little
heavy duty; if this died at around 9 or 10 % I
might be happy with that. I show that as 1.022
to 1.029 S.G.

bobdrob,
I show 1.115 as 19.3 % ABV; I have the book at
home that probably
takes them higher; I have spreadsheet I made on
my work PC. I can email you the spreadsheet.

Joe

Joe, are you sure of that? I quick check on my
program shows 1.115 SG to be equivalent to 15.78
Brix and the PA to be 15.78- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Same here - don't have the tables on me but last couple of years we
got some Zin and Petite Sirah grapes that were over 1.130. I remember
checking the PA on those and even that was definitely under 20% - not
that we fermented them that way!

Pp

I use this table: http://www.brsquared.org/wine/CalcInfo/HydSugAl.htm
which backs paul and joe's comments.

I have to admit though, I never quite understood how this can be if
0PA is 1.000 and I usually ferment down to around 0.990

Jim

On Nov 26, 8:36 pm, pp wrote:
On Nov 26, 11:46 am, "Paul E. Lehmann" wrote:



Joe Sallustio wrote:

Hi. Is there a special starter I should use to
re-start this? Room temperature shouldn't be
an issue - it's being kept in my pantry so it
is always warm enough.

Steve's post already gave you great advice and
the correct value of
'potential alcohol' for 1.100SG. (My tables
came from NBS so I know
they are right.) The only thing I would expand
on is the amount of
time to give it to get going. Starters need to
get going really well
before you add them to the total volume. I
keep doubling the volume of the starter and let
it get back to fermenting strongly.

13% ABV for an apple wine might be a little
heavy duty; if this died at around 9 or 10 % I
might be happy with that. I show that as 1.022
to 1.029 S.G.

bobdrob,
I show 1.115 as 19.3 % ABV; I have the book at
home that probably
takes them higher; I have spreadsheet I made on
my work PC. I can email you the spreadsheet.

Joe

Joe, are you sure of that? I quick check on my
program shows 1.115 SG to be equivalent to 15.78
Brix and the PA to be 15.78- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Same here - don't have the tables on me but last couple of years we
got some Zin and Petite Sirah grapes that were over 1.130. I remember
checking the PA on those and even that was definitely under 20% - not
that we fermented them that way!

Pp

Why is everybody calling me Joe these days? :-p

As for the 0.990 vs 1.000 difference, basically, you can think about
it as the table being designed so that instead of using the difference
between the starting and final sg points, you're only using the
starting point. In other words, the table is built with the assumption
that your wine ferments completely to dryness (because that's what PA
means) and gives you the PA values with that assumption.

Pp

On Nov 26, 1:37 pm, jim wrote:
I use this table:http://www.brsquared.org/wine/CalcInfo/HydSugAl.htm
which backs paul and joe's comments.

I have to admit though, I never quite understood how this can be if
0PA is 1.000 and I usually ferment down to around 0.990

Jim

On Nov 26, 8:36 pm, pp wrote:



On Nov 26, 11:46 am, "Paul E. Lehmann" wrote:

Joe Sallustio wrote:

Hi. Is there a special starter I should use to
re-start this? Room temperature shouldn't be
an issue - it's being kept in my pantry so it
is always warm enough.

Steve's post already gave you great advice and
the correct value of
'potential alcohol' for 1.100SG. (My tables
came from NBS so I know
they are right.) The only thing I would expand
on is the amount of
time to give it to get going. Starters need to
get going really well
before you add them to the total volume. I
keep doubling the volume of the starter and let
it get back to fermenting strongly.

13% ABV for an apple wine might be a little
heavy duty; if this died at around 9 or 10 % I
might be happy with that. I show that as 1.022
to 1.029 S.G.

bobdrob,
I show 1.115 as 19.3 % ABV; I have the book at
home that probably
takes them higher; I have spreadsheet I made on
my work PC. I can email you the spreadsheet.

Joe

Joe, are you sure of that? I quick check on my
program shows 1.115 SG to be equivalent to 15.78
Brix and the PA to be 15.78- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Same here - don't have the tables on me but last couple of years we
got some Zin and Petite Sirah grapes that were over 1.130. I remember
checking the PA on those and even that was definitely under 20% - not
that we fermented them that way!

Pp- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Heh sorry to miss you out. Thanks for the info.

I understand that PA starts with the potential. What I am getting at
is that SG and PA are given a common correlation as being discussed in
this thread. Yet, SG works on total movement (from initial to final
SG). So, what is the difference between a wine with PA of 15 that
finishes at SG 1.000 and a wine with a PA of 15 which finishes at
0.990?

That still *weirds me out* Many thanks and I hope this isn't too off
topic.

Jim

On Nov 27, 1:04 am, pp wrote:
Why is everybody calling me Joe these days? :-p

As for the 0.990 vs 1.000 difference, basically, you can think about
it as the table being designed so that instead of using the difference
between the starting and final sg points, you're only using the
starting point. In other words, the table is built with the assumption
that your wine ferments completely to dryness (because that's what PA
means) and gives you the PA values with that assumption.

Pp

On Nov 26, 1:37 pm, jim wrote:

I use this table:http://www.brsquared.org/wine/CalcInfo/HydSugAl.htm
which backs paul and joe's comments.

I have to admit though, I never quite understood how this can be if
0PA is 1.000 and I usually ferment down to around 0.990

Jim

On Nov 26, 8:36 pm, pp wrote:

On Nov 26, 11:46 am, "Paul E. Lehmann" wrote:

Joe Sallustio wrote:

Hi. Is there a special starter I should use to
re-start this? Room temperature shouldn't be
an issue - it's being kept in my pantry so it
is always warm enough.

Steve's post already gave you great advice and
the correct value of
'potential alcohol' for 1.100SG. (My tables
came from NBS so I know
they are right.) The only thing I would expand
on is the amount of
time to give it to get going. Starters need to
get going really well
before you add them to the total volume. I
keep doubling the volume of the starter and let
it get back to fermenting strongly.

13% ABV for an apple wine might be a little
heavy duty; if this died at around 9 or 10 % I
might be happy with that. I show that as 1.022
to 1.029 S.G.

bobdrob,
I show 1.115 as 19.3 % ABV; I have the book at
home that probably
takes them higher; I have spreadsheet I made on
my work PC. I can email you the spreadsheet.

Joe

Joe, are you sure of that? I quick check on my
program shows 1.115 SG to be equivalent to 15.78
Brix and the PA to be 15.78- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Same here - don't have the tables on me but last couple of years we
got some Zin and Petite Sirah grapes that were over 1.130. I remember
checking the PA on those and even that was definitely under 20% - not
that we fermented them that way!

Pp- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

jim wrote:

Heh sorry to miss you out. Thanks for the info.

I understand that PA starts with the potential.
What I am getting at is that SG and PA are given
a common correlation as being discussed in
this thread. Yet, SG works on total movement
(from initial to final
SG). So, what is the difference between a wine
with PA of 15 that finishes at SG 1.000 and a
wine with a PA of 15 which finishes at 0.990?

That still *weirds me out* Many thanks and I
hope this isn't too off topic.

Ray Calvert had a discussion on this point about a
year ago with another poster. I don't think it
was ever resolved.

In my calculations I use formulae that were
developed by UC Davis. Of course, this does not
mean that they are bullet proof.

In order to resolve this, I think someone (who
actually cares enough - or is interested enough)
to actually do an experiment and ferment a wine
with a known initial SG and a final SG (both
corrected for temperature - preferably with a
high initial SG and a very low final SG) and send
the finished wine to a certified lab for results
of PA. The test is not all that expensive,
especially considering all the controversy about
the topic.




Jim

On Nov 27, 1:04 am, pp
wrote:
Why is everybody calling me Joe these days? :-p

As for the 0.990 vs 1.000 difference,
basically, you can think about it as the table
being designed so that instead of using the
difference between the starting and final sg
points, you're only using the starting point.
In other words, the table is built with the
assumption that your wine ferments completely
to dryness (because that's what PA means) and
gives you the PA values with that assumption.

Pp

On Nov 26, 1:37 pm, jim
wrote:

I use this

table:http://www.brsquared.org/wine/CalcInfo/HydSugAl.htm
which backs paul and joe's comments.

I have to admit though, I never quite
understood how this can be if 0PA is 1.000
and I usually ferment down to around 0.990

Jim

On Nov 26, 8:36 pm, pp
wrote:

On Nov 26, 11:46 am, "Paul E. Lehmann"
wrote:

Joe Sallustio wrote:

Hi. Is there a special starter I
should use to
re-start this? Room temperature
shouldn't be an issue - it's being
kept in my pantry so it is always warm
enough.

Steve's post already gave you great
advice and the correct value of
'potential alcohol' for 1.100SG. (My
tables came from NBS so I know
they are right.) The only thing I
would expand on is the amount of
time to give it to get going. Starters
need to get going really well
before you add them to the total
volume. I keep doubling the volume of
the starter and let it get back to
fermenting strongly.

13% ABV for an apple wine might be a
little heavy duty; if this died at
around 9 or 10 % I
might be happy with that. I show that
as 1.022 to 1.029 S.G.

bobdrob,
I show 1.115 as 19.3 % ABV; I have the
book at home that probably
takes them higher; I have spreadsheet I
made on
my work PC. I can email you the
spreadsheet.

Joe

Joe, are you sure of that? I quick check
on my program shows 1.115 SG to be
equivalent to 15.78 Brix and the PA to be
15.78- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Same here - don't have the tables on me but
last couple of years we got some Zin and
Petite Sirah grapes that were over 1.130. I
remember checking the PA on those and even
that was definitely under 20% - not that we
fermented them that way!

Pp- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -