After reading the comments about mold in primary fermentation stage; we
started 4 gallons of apple cider but the temp was bad and we had green mold
on top of the cider (just apple juice let to ferment by itself, no yeast or
other additives).

We ended up throwing it down the drain, but could we have saved the juice by
adding yeast???

Any comments/help would be appreciated. We're new at all this stuff!

Cathy

On Oct 25, 4:39 pm, "Cathy Boer" wrote:
After reading the comments about mold in primary fermentation stage; we
started 4 gallons of apple cider but the temp was bad and we had green mold
on top of the cider (just apple juice let to ferment by itself, no yeast or
other additives).

We ended up throwing it down the drain, but could we have saved the juice by
adding yeast???

Any comments/help would be appreciated. We're new at all this stuff!

Cathy

Yes, you could have saved it. Mold usually takes several days to take
hold, if you would have used one packet of wine yeast the juice would
begin fermenting sooner and would have made the environment less
hospitable to mold.

Joe

Kathy,

Bacterial spoilage can be corrected by adding sugar and re-fermenting.
I got this advice from a reputable winemaker. If wine has bacterial
spoilage either add it to next years batch or add sugar and referment.
Obviously the re-fermented batch will be stronger but it will be
drinkable. Use Champagne yeast if alcohol is already present. The
first time I used this advice was a couple days ago and it worked
great.

Bob


On Oct 25, 3:39 pm, "Cathy Boer" wrote:
After reading the comments about mold in primary fermentation stage; we
started 4 gallons of apple cider but the temp was bad and we had green mold
on top of the cider (just apple juice let to ferment by itself, no yeast or
other additives).

We ended up throwing it down the drain, but could we have saved the juice by
adding yeast???

Any comments/help would be appreciated. We're new at all this stuff!

Cathy

wrote:

Kathy,

Bacterial spoilage can be corrected by adding
sugar and re-fermenting. I got this advice from
a reputable winemaker. If wine has bacterial
spoilage either add it to next years batch or
add sugar and referment. Obviously the
re-fermented batch will be stronger but it will
be drinkable. Use Champagne yeast if alcohol is
already present. The first time I used this
advice was a couple days ago and it worked
great.

Bob

I do not think this is good advice. I suggest
Kathy not to take it.

A packet of wine yeast is NOT expensive.




On Oct 25, 3:39 pm, "Cathy Boer"
wrote:
After reading the comments about mold in
primary fermentation stage; we started 4
gallons of apple cider but the temp was bad and
we had green mold on top of the cider (just
apple juice let to ferment by itself, no yeast
or other additives).

We ended up throwing it down the drain, but
could we have saved the juice by adding
yeast???

Any comments/help would be appreciated. We're
new at all this stuff!

Cathy

Why is it not good advice? I'm not saying she shouldn't add yeast to
ferment. I'm saying that spoiled wine can be fixed. What is the worst
that can happen, pouring it down the drain anyway?

Bob


On Oct 25, 8:05 pm, "Paul E. Lehmann" wrote:
wrote:
Kathy,

Bacterial spoilage can be corrected by adding
sugar and re-fermenting. I got this advice from
a reputable winemaker. If wine has bacterial
spoilage either add it to next years batch or
add sugar and referment. Obviously the
re-fermented batch will be stronger but it will
be drinkable. Use Champagne yeast if alcohol is
already present. The first time I used this
advice was a couple days ago and it worked
great.

Bob

I do not think this is good advice. I suggest
Kathy not to take it.

A packet of wine yeast is NOT expensive.



On Oct 25, 3:39 pm, "Cathy Boer"
wrote:
After reading the comments about mold in
primary fermentation stage; we started 4
gallons of apple cider but the temp was bad and
we had green mold on top of the cider (just
apple juice let to ferment by itself, no yeast
or other additives).

We ended up throwing it down the drain, but
could we have saved the juice by adding
yeast???

Any comments/help would be appreciated. We're
new at all this stuff!

Cathy

wrote:

Why is it not good advice? I'm not saying she
shouldn't add yeast to ferment. I'm saying that
spoiled wine can be fixed. What is the worst
that can happen, pouring it down the drain
anyway?

Bob


On Oct 25, 8:05 pm, "Paul E. Lehmann"
wrote:

In my opinion, adding sugar and yeasts will merely
cover up the problem and not cure it. It also
leads to or supports sloppy winemaking practices.

It is also possible to have the spoilage
organism(s) spread to other places in the
location in which the wine is being made.

These are merely my opinions and of course
everyone has their own and do what they think is
best or works for them.


wrote:
Kathy,

Bacterial spoilage can be corrected by adding
sugar and re-fermenting. I got this advice
from a reputable winemaker. If wine has
bacterial spoilage either add it to next
years batch or add sugar and referment.
Obviously the re-fermented batch will be
stronger but it will be drinkable. Use
Champagne yeast if alcohol is already
present. The first time I used this advice
was a couple days ago and it worked great.

Bob

I do not think this is good advice. I suggest
Kathy not to take it.

A packet of wine yeast is NOT expensive.



On Oct 25, 3:39 pm, "Cathy Boer"
wrote:
After reading the comments about mold in
primary fermentation stage; we started 4
gallons of apple cider but the temp was bad
and we had green mold on top of the cider
(just apple juice let to ferment by itself,
no yeast or other additives).

We ended up throwing it down the drain, but
could we have saved the juice by adding
yeast???

Any comments/help would be appreciated.
We're new at all this stuff!

Cathy

The two Paul's in this thread would make good Republican Presidential
candidates. Instilling IRRATIONAL FEAR into anyone who ever came
across mold or a bad smelling wine. On the contrary, there are no
known pathogens that exist in wine. It's the reason the Board of
Health exempts wineries from reqiurements of section 20C. Has anyone
on this board heard of anyone getting sick from bad wine? Anyone?
Frederick mentioned the push down of the cap. Both Pauls have pushed
those "toxins" down into the wine hundreds of times and didn't even
know it. Those toxins are always there. Even SO2 doesn't kill them.
SO2 puts them in suspended animation until the SO2 levels drop. Bleach
would kill them but then there really would be "toxins" in the wine.
How many "toxins" have people drunk in this world when the SO2 levels
of the wine they are drinking become low?? Just because you can't see
them doesn't mean they are not there and it's ironic that the cap
keeps getting pushed into the fermenting must to kill them. Maybe the
fermentation does do something. Imagine that.

Bob


On Oct 25, 8:57 pm, Paul Arthur wrote:
On 2007-10-25, Cathy Boer wrote:

After reading the comments about mold in primary fermentation stage; we
started 4 gallons of apple cider but the temp was bad and we had green mold
on top of the cider (just apple juice let to ferment by itself, no yeast or
other additives).

We ended up throwing it down the drain, but could we have saved the juice by
adding yeast???

Any comments/help would be appreciated. We're new at all this stuff!

It depends on how advanced the mold is. If you catch it fairly
quickly and it's only on top, you can rack the must out from under the
mold (leaving behind a couple of inches to make sure you don't carry
the mold into the new fermenter) and pitch yeast. If it's been growing
for a while toss it, as the mold produces toxins that will have spread
throughout the must and cannot be easily removed.

--
I just forgot my whole philosophy of life!!!

I forgot to mention the crush. Grapes are never washed before the
crush. Do you realize how much bird shit is on those grapes? How much
echoli bacteria is in the musts before the fermentaion? How do the two
Pauls deal with that? Oh, that's right, they pitch the yeast.

Bob

On Oct 26, 9:08 am, wrote:
The two Paul's in this thread would make good Republican Presidential
candidates. Instilling IRRATIONAL FEAR into anyone who ever came
across mold or a bad smelling wine. On the contrary, there are no
known pathogens that exist in wine. It's the reason the Board of
Health exempts wineries from reqiurements of section 20C. Has anyone
on this board heard of anyone getting sick from bad wine? Anyone?
Frederick mentioned the push down of the cap. Both Pauls have pushed
those "toxins" down into the wine hundreds of times and didn't even
know it. Those toxins are always there. Even SO2 doesn't kill them.
SO2 puts them in suspended animation until the SO2 levels drop. Bleach
would kill them but then there really would be "toxins" in the wine.
How many "toxins" have people drunk in this world when the SO2 levels
of the wine they are drinking become low?? Just because you can't see
them doesn't mean they are not there and it's ironic that the cap
keeps getting pushed into the fermenting must to kill them. Maybe the
fermentation does do something. Imagine that.

Bob

On Oct 25, 8:57 pm, Paul Arthur wrote:

On 2007-10-25, Cathy Boer wrote:

After reading the comments about mold in primary fermentation stage; we
started 4 gallons of apple cider but the temp was bad and we had green mold
on top of the cider (just apple juice let to ferment by itself, no yeast or
other additives).

We ended up throwing it down the drain, but could we have saved the juice by
adding yeast???

Any comments/help would be appreciated. We're new at all this stuff!

It depends on how advanced the mold is. If you catch it fairly
quickly and it's only on top, you can rack the must out from under the
mold (leaving behind a couple of inches to make sure you don't carry
the mold into the new fermenter) and pitch yeast. If it's been growing
for a while toss it, as the mold produces toxins that will have spread
throughout the must and cannot be easily removed.

--
I just forgot my whole philosophy of life!!!

Surface mold grows on the surface film for a reason. That is where
it finds the "living conditions" it requires. Relatively stable,
relatively dry, and abundant oxygen. Had you stirred the juice/must
2 or 3 times a day, you would have disrupted these "living
conditions" long enough for the yeast to get started. Even when the
yeast gets going, you need to keep stiring once or twice a day
so long as there remains any solids or foam on the surface that
might dry out enough to let the mold get reestablished.

When you see advice about things like stiring, pump over, punch
down, etc., take heed. There are always reasons for the things
we do. HTH

Frederick


"Cathy Boer" wrote in message
news:Q97Ui.35368$G25.34609@edtnps89...
After reading the comments about mold in primary fermentation stage; we
started 4 gallons of apple cider but the temp was bad and we had green
mold on top of the cider (just apple juice let to ferment by itself, no
yeast or other additives).

We ended up throwing it down the drain, but could we have saved the juice
by adding yeast???

Any comments/help would be appreciated. We're new at all this stuff!

Cathy

wrote:

The two Paul's in this thread would make good
Republican Presidential
candidates.

I would have to change my party affiliation before
I did that

Instilling IRRATIONAL FEAR into
anyone who ever came across mold or a bad
smelling wine.

If you want to drink bad smelling "wine", be my
guest. If you want to risk contaminating other
things in your winery, go ahead. I am not the
wine police I am merely making suggestions.

On the contrary, there are no
known pathogens that exist in wine.

I don't believe the "cider" had enough sugar to
make "wine". The words we

..."temp was bad and we had green mold on top of
the cider (just apple juice let to ferment by
itself, no yeast or other additives)."

It's the
reason the Board of Health exempts wineries from
reqiurements of section 20C. Has anyone on this
board heard of anyone getting sick from bad
wine? Anyone?

Sick, yes, deadly - life threatening ill no. Of
course, to the best of my knowledge, I have never
drunk a low alcohol beverage that had green mold
growing on it. To each his own. Happy wine -
errr - beverage making

Frederick mentioned the push down
of the cap. Both Pauls have pushed those
"toxins" down into the wine hundreds of times
and didn't even know it. Those toxins are always
there. Even SO2 doesn't kill them. SO2 puts them
in suspended animation until the SO2 levels
drop. Bleach would kill them but then there
really would be "toxins" in the wine. How many
"toxins" have people drunk in this world when
the SO2 levels of the wine they are drinking
become low?? Just because you can't see them
doesn't mean they are not there and it's ironic
that the cap keeps getting pushed into the
fermenting must to kill them. Maybe the
fermentation does do something. Imagine that.

Bob


On Oct 25, 8:57 pm, Paul Arthur
wrote:
On 2007-10-25, Cathy Boer
wrote:

After reading the comments about mold in
primary fermentation stage; we started 4
gallons of apple cider but the temp was bad
and we had green mold on top of the cider
(just apple juice let to ferment by itself,
no yeast or other additives).

We ended up throwing it down the drain, but
could we have saved the juice by adding
yeast???

Any comments/help would be appreciated.
We're new at all this stuff!

It depends on how advanced the mold is. If you
catch it fairly quickly and it's only on top,
you can rack the must out from under the mold
(leaving behind a couple of inches to make sure
you don't carry
the mold into the new fermenter) and pitch
yeast. If it's been growing for a while toss
it, as the mold produces toxins that will have
spread throughout the must and cannot be easily
removed.

--
I just forgot my whole philosophy of life!!!

Cents everyone has 2 pennies of advice, here is mine. :*) (yes, I know I
spelled it wrong)

Adding yeast would have helped. Possibly adding sugar, but it depends on
the S.G. With yeast so inexpensive, I would never let fruit or grapes
ferment on their own, though I realize that's the way they did it 2000
years ago, they also didn't have $.99 yeast packets available.

Some of the best grapes and fruit for making wine is over ripe, meaning
all kinds of mold and stuff is happening to them.

I also agree with several comments above about catching it quickly (not
4 months later) and racking out the top mold.

IMHO.

My apple cider wine was made two years ago and will be in the bottle
another year before it's close to ready. But it is promising!

I do appreciate learning from everyone's 2 cents - I got a pocket full
of change now a-days.
DAve

Cathy Boer wrote:
After reading the comments about mold in primary fermentation stage; we
started 4 gallons of apple cider but the temp was bad and we had green mold
on top of the cider (just apple juice let to ferment by itself, no yeast or
other additives).

We ended up throwing it down the drain, but could we have saved the juice by
adding yeast???

Any comments/help would be appreciated. We're new at all this stuff!

Cathy

If you want to drink bad smelling "wine", be my
guest. If you want to risk contaminating other
things in your winery, go ahead. I am not the
wine police I am merely making suggestions.

I'm making suggestions myself based on my observations and experiences
combined with info given to me by a good winemaker. I'm not suggesting
drinking bad stuff, I'm suggesting a method to fix it.

"Sick, yes, deadly - life threatening ill no. Of
course, to the best of my knowledge, I have never
drunk a low alcohol beverage that had green mold
growing on it. To each his own. Happy wine -
errr - beverage making "

I haven't even heard of anyone getting sick. Like I said, I'm
suggesting ways to fix it not ways to drink it.



"On Oct 26, 11:54 am, "Paul E. Lehmann" wrote:
wrote:
The two Paul's in this thread would make good
Republican Presidential
candidates.

I would have to change my party affiliation before
I did that

Instilling IRRATIONAL FEAR into
anyone who ever came across mold or a bad
smelling wine.

If you want to drink bad smelling "wine", be my
guest. If you want to risk contaminating other
things in your winery, go ahead. I am not the
wine police I am merely making suggestions.

On the contrary, there are no
known pathogens that exist in wine.

I don't believe the "cider" had enough sugar to
make "wine". The words we

.."temp was bad and we had green mold on top of
the cider (just apple juice let to ferment by
itself, no yeast or other additives)."

It's the
reason the Board of Health exempts wineries from
reqiurements of section 20C. Has anyone on this
board heard of anyone getting sick from bad
wine? Anyone?

Sick, yes, deadly - life threatening ill no. Of
course, to the best of my knowledge, I have never
drunk a low alcohol beverage that had green mold
growing on it. To each his own. Happy wine -
errr - beverage making

Frederick mentioned the push down
of the cap. Both Pauls have pushed those
"toxins" down into the wine hundreds of times
and didn't even know it. Those toxins are always
there. Even SO2 doesn't kill them. SO2 puts them
in suspended animation until the SO2 levels
drop. Bleach would kill them but then there
really would be "toxins" in the wine. How many
"toxins" have people drunk in this world when
the SO2 levels of the wine they are drinking
become low?? Just because you can't see them
doesn't mean they are not there and it's ironic
that the cap keeps getting pushed into the
fermenting must to kill them. Maybe the
fermentation does do something. Imagine that.

Bob

On Oct 25, 8:57 pm, Paul Arthur
wrote:
On 2007-10-25, Cathy Boer
wrote:

After reading the comments about mold in
primary fermentation stage; we started 4
gallons of apple cider but the temp was bad
and we had green mold on top of the cider
(just apple juice let to ferment by itself,
no yeast or other additives).

We ended up throwing it down the drain, but
could we have saved the juice by adding
yeast???

Any comments/help would be appreciated.
We're new at all this stuff!

It depends on how advanced the mold is. If you
catch it fairly quickly and it's only on top,
you can rack the must out from under the mold
(leaving behind a couple of inches to make sure
you don't carry
the mold into the new fermenter) and pitch
yeast. If it's been growing for a while toss
it, as the mold produces toxins that will have
spread throughout the must and cannot be easily
removed.

--
I just forgot my whole philosophy of life!!!

wrote:

If you want to drink bad smelling "wine", be my
guest. If you want to risk contaminating other
things in your winery, go ahead. I am not the
wine police I am merely making suggestions.

I'm making suggestions myself based on my
observations and experiences combined with info
given to me by a good winemaker. I'm not
suggesting drinking bad stuff, I'm suggesting a
method to fix it.

"Sick, yes, deadly - life threatening ill no.
Of
course, to the best of my knowledge, I have
never drunk a low alcohol beverage that had
green mold
growing on it. To each his own. Happy wine -
errr - beverage making "

I haven't even heard of anyone getting sick.
Like I said, I'm suggesting ways to fix it not
ways to drink it.

I think Cathy has enough information to make her
decision.




"On Oct 26, 11:54 am, "Paul E. Lehmann"
wrote:
wrote:
The two Paul's in this thread would make good
Republican Presidential
candidates.

I would have to change my party affiliation
before I did that

Instilling IRRATIONAL FEAR into
anyone who ever came across mold or a bad
smelling wine.

If you want to drink bad smelling "wine", be my
guest. If you want to risk contaminating other
things in your winery, go ahead. I am not the
wine police I am merely making suggestions.

On the contrary, there are no
known pathogens that exist in wine.

I don't believe the "cider" had enough sugar to
make "wine". The words we

.."temp was bad and we had green mold on top of
the cider (just apple juice let to ferment by
itself, no yeast or other additives)."

It's the
reason the Board of Health exempts wineries
from reqiurements of section 20C. Has anyone
on this board heard of anyone getting sick
from bad wine? Anyone?

Sick, yes, deadly - life threatening ill no.
Of course, to the best of my knowledge, I have
never drunk a low alcohol beverage that had
green mold
growing on it. To each his own. Happy wine -
errr - beverage making

Frederick mentioned the push down
of the cap. Both Pauls have pushed those
"toxins" down into the wine hundreds of times
and didn't even know it. Those toxins are
always there. Even SO2 doesn't kill them. SO2
puts them in suspended animation until the
SO2 levels drop. Bleach would kill them but
then there really would be "toxins" in the
wine. How many "toxins" have people drunk in
this world when the SO2 levels of the wine
they are drinking become low?? Just because
you can't see them doesn't mean they are not
there and it's ironic that the cap keeps
getting pushed into the fermenting must to
kill them. Maybe the fermentation does do
something. Imagine that.

Bob

On Oct 25, 8:57 pm, Paul Arthur
wrote:
On 2007-10-25, Cathy Boer
wrote:

After reading the comments about mold in
primary fermentation stage; we started 4
gallons of apple cider but the temp was
bad and we had green mold on top of the
cider (just apple juice let to ferment by
itself, no yeast or other additives).

We ended up throwing it down the drain,
but could we have saved the juice by
adding yeast???

Any comments/help would be appreciated.
We're new at all this stuff!

It depends on how advanced the mold is. If
you catch it fairly quickly and it's only on
top, you can rack the must out from under
the mold (leaving behind a couple of inches
to make sure you don't carry
the mold into the new fermenter) and pitch
yeast. If it's been growing for a while
toss it, as the mold produces toxins that
will have spread throughout the must and
cannot be easily removed.

--
I just forgot my whole philosophy of life!!!

You can never have enough info. If she makes a decision based on the
limited info presented here, I will guarantee it will be an ill-
informed decision.

Bob


On Oct 30, 11:56 am, "Paul E. Lehmann" wrote:
wrote:
If you want to drink bad smelling "wine", be my
guest. If you want to risk contaminating other
things in your winery, go ahead. I am not the
wine police I am merely making suggestions.

I'm making suggestions myself based on my
observations and experiences combined with info
given to me by a good winemaker. I'm not
suggesting drinking bad stuff, I'm suggesting a
method to fix it.

"Sick, yes, deadly - life threatening ill no.
Of
course, to the best of my knowledge, I have
never drunk a low alcohol beverage that had
green mold
growing on it. To each his own. Happy wine -
errr - beverage making "

I haven't even heard of anyone getting sick.
Like I said, I'm suggesting ways to fix it not
ways to drink it.

I think Cathy has enough information to make her
decision.



"On Oct 26, 11:54 am, "Paul E. Lehmann"
wrote:
wrote:
The two Paul's in this thread would make good
Republican Presidential
candidates.

I would have to change my party affiliation
before I did that

Instilling IRRATIONAL FEAR into
anyone who ever came across mold or a bad
smelling wine.

If you want to drink bad smelling "wine", be my
guest. If you want to risk contaminating other
things in your winery, go ahead. I am not the
wine police I am merely making suggestions.

On the contrary, there are no
known pathogens that exist in wine.

I don't believe the "cider" had enough sugar to
make "wine". The words we

.."temp was bad and we had green mold on top of
the cider (just apple juice let to ferment by
itself, no yeast or other additives)."

It's the
reason the Board of Health exempts wineries
from reqiurements of section 20C. Has anyone
on this board heard of anyone getting sick
from bad wine? Anyone?

Sick, yes, deadly - life threatening ill no.
Of course, to the best of my knowledge, I have
never drunk a low alcohol beverage that had
green mold
growing on it. To each his own. Happy wine -
errr - beverage making

Frederick mentioned the push down
of the cap. Both Pauls have pushed those
"toxins" down into the wine hundreds of times
and didn't even know it. Those toxins are
always there. Even SO2 doesn't kill them. SO2
puts them in suspended animation until the
SO2 levels drop. Bleach would kill them but
then there really would be "toxins" in the
wine. How many "toxins" have people drunk in
this world when the SO2 levels of the wine
they are drinking become low?? Just because
you can't see them doesn't mean they are not
there and it's ironic that the cap keeps
getting pushed into the fermenting must to
kill them. Maybe the fermentation does do
something. Imagine that.

Bob

On Oct 25, 8:57 pm, Paul Arthur
wrote:
On 2007-10-25, Cathy Boer
wrote:

After reading the comments about mold in
primary fermentation stage; we started 4
gallons of apple cider but the temp was
bad and we had green mold on top of the
cider (just apple juice let to ferment by
itself, no yeast or other additives).

We ended up throwing it down the drain,
but could we have saved the juice by
adding yeast???

Any comments/help would be appreciated.
We're new at all this stuff!

It depends on how advanced the mold is. If
you catch it fairly quickly and it's only on
top, you can rack the must out from under
the mold (leaving behind a couple of inches
to make sure you don't carry
the mold into the new fermenter) and pitch
yeast. If it's been growing for a while
toss it, as the mold produces toxins that
will have spread throughout the must and
cannot be easily removed.

--
I just forgot my whole philosophy of life!!!

Sadly there seems to be a degree of derision on this thread as well as
the useful opinions and information. The information is useful, the
derision is not.

I am not sure myself as to whether all byproducts of bacterial
spoilage are neutralised when the alcohol levels rise high enough to
kill the infection. I couldn't find much online about it and I don't
know whether many of these byproducts are poisonous either.
Information and opinion given by long-term winemakers on this thread
is interesting though and does help to form a strategy as well as
opinion.

I'd be interesting to hear more on this subject. Perhaps the lack of
testimony from people quoting a negative experience shows that there
is rarely a problem with procedures suggested. Perhaps it just shows
that they haven't read this thread yet.

Jim (a newb)



On Oct 31, 2:28 pm, wrote:
You can never have enough info. If she makes a decision based on the
limited info presented here, I will guarantee it will be an ill-
informed decision.

Bob

On Oct 30, 11:56 am, "Paul E. Lehmann" wrote:

wrote:
If you want to drink bad smelling "wine", be my
guest. If you want to risk contaminating other
things in your winery, go ahead. I am not the
wine police I am merely making suggestions.

I'm making suggestions myself based on my
observations and experiences combined with info
given to me by a good winemaker. I'm not
suggesting drinking bad stuff, I'm suggesting a
method to fix it.

"Sick, yes, deadly - life threatening ill no.
Of
course, to the best of my knowledge, I have
never drunk a low alcohol beverage that had
green mold
growing on it. To each his own. Happy wine -
errr - beverage making "

I haven't even heard of anyone getting sick.
Like I said, I'm suggesting ways to fix it not
ways to drink it.

I think Cathy has enough information to make her
decision.

"On Oct 26, 11:54 am, "Paul E. Lehmann"
wrote:
wrote:
The two Paul's in this thread would make good
Republican Presidential
candidates.

I would have to change my party affiliation
before I did that

Instilling IRRATIONAL FEAR into
anyone who ever came across mold or a bad
smelling wine.

If you want to drink bad smelling "wine", be my
guest. If you want to risk contaminating other
things in your winery, go ahead. I am not the
wine police I am merely making suggestions.

On the contrary, there are no
known pathogens that exist in wine.

I don't believe the "cider" had enough sugar to
make "wine". The words we

.."temp was bad and we had green mold on top of
the cider (just apple juice let to ferment by
itself, no yeast or other additives)."

It's the
reason the Board of Health exempts wineries
from reqiurements of section 20C. Has anyone
on this board heard of anyone getting sick
from bad wine? Anyone?

Sick, yes, deadly - life threatening ill no.
Of course, to the best of my knowledge, I have
never drunk a low alcohol beverage that had
green mold
growing on it. To each his own. Happy wine -
errr - beverage making

Frederick mentioned the push down
of the cap. Both Pauls have pushed those
"toxins" down into the wine hundreds of times
and didn't even know it. Those toxins are
always there. Even SO2 doesn't kill them. SO2
puts them in suspended animation until the
SO2 levels drop. Bleach would kill them but
then there really would be "toxins" in the
wine. How many "toxins" have people drunk in
this world when the SO2 levels of the wine
they are drinking become low?? Just because
you can't see them doesn't mean they are not
there and it's ironic that the cap keeps
getting pushed into the fermenting must to
kill them. Maybe the fermentation does do
something. Imagine that.

Bob

On Oct 25, 8:57 pm, Paul Arthur
wrote:
On 2007-10-25, Cathy Boer
wrote:

After reading the comments about mold in
primary fermentation stage; we started 4
gallons of apple cider but the temp was
bad and we had green mold on top of the
cider (just apple juice let to ferment by
itself, no yeast or other additives).

We ended up throwing it down the drain,
but could we have saved the juice by
adding yeast???

Any comments/help would be appreciated.
We're new at all this stuff!

It depends on how advanced the mold is. If
you catch it fairly quickly and it's only on
top, you can rack the must out from under
the mold (leaving behind a couple of inches
to make sure you don't carry
the mold into the new fermenter) and pitch
yeast. If it's been growing for a while
toss it, as the mold produces toxins that
will have spread throughout the must and
cannot be easily removed.

--
I just forgot my whole philosophy of life!!!