So my local supplier is out of the dry ML bacteria. This means that my
other local option is to by the liquid stuff at a rate of $8.50 per 5
gallons of wine. I have 130 gallons, so this is not economical. I
have some questions for the group:
1) Is there a supplier on the east coast (new England preferably) that
I can get the dry drom and have it shipped? I think some types need
to be frozen - so that is expensive to ship.
2) Are there any types that don't have to be frozen or cold during
transport?
3) Can I buy some of the expensive stuff locally and get by with less,
or grow more from it?
4) Any other ideas?

Thanks

wrote:

So my local supplier is out of the dry ML
bacteria. This means that my other local option
is to by the liquid stuff at a rate of $8.50 per
5
gallons of wine. I have 130 gallons, so this is
not economical. I have some questions for the
group: 1) Is there a supplier on the east coast
(new England preferably) that
I can get the dry drom and have it shipped? I
think some types need to be frozen - so that is
expensive to ship. 2) Are there any types that
don't have to be frozen or cold during
transport? 3) Can I buy some of the expensive
stuff locally and get by with less, or grow more
from it? 4) Any other ideas?

Thanks

Call Presque Isle (814) 725-1314

They will ship you some UPS Muy Pronto.

They are in East West Pennsylvania (the actual
name of the town) - near the New York State Line.
They are very good people to deal with.

I called them this week and had mine the next day.
They have a dry variety that is about $14 and will
do 65 gallons. The nutrient is also very
inexpensive - about $5

wrote:
So my local supplier is out of the dry ML bacteria. This means that my
other local option is to by the liquid stuff at a rate of $8.50 per 5
gallons of wine. I have 130 gallons, so this is not economical. I
have some questions for the group:
1) Is there a supplier on the east coast (new England preferably) that
I can get the dry drom and have it shipped? I think some types need
to be frozen - so that is expensive to ship.
2) Are there any types that don't have to be frozen or cold during
transport?
3) Can I buy some of the expensive stuff locally and get by with less,
or grow more from it?
4) Any other ideas?

Thanks


Hmmmmmmmm.... I haven't tried this approach; would this scale-up process
expand the ML bacteria population enough to work?...
How about buying one of the 5gal doses, put 5 gallons of your wine into
a carboy [make the ML culture most happy with wine at SO2 less than
20ppm, adjust pH to 3.6-3.9 with calcium carbonate, adjust temperature
to 72F-77F], add the liquid ML culture, install the airlock, wait a few
days, then add that 5 gallon culture back to the remaining 125 gallons.


Or you could culture the ML bacteria like some commercial wineries do,
if you have access to a small amount more grapes.
The one I have adapted, below, is based on the Scott Laboratories
standard build-up procedu
http://www.scottlaboratories.com/pro...rdBuild-Up.pdf

[Note, most wineries buy quick-build up ML yeast and use a different
procedu
http://www.scottlaboratories.com/pro...ckBuild-Up.pdf
]

You buy one dose of the liquid ML culture (125ml for 5 gallon dose).
Mix 1 quart of grape must (72F-77F, pH 3.6-3.9, SO2 less than 20ppm) and
1 quart of chlorine-free water (72F-77F). Add a little ML-friendly
yeast (D254 and RC212 are good candidates). Add your liquid ML culture
and wait three days.
Put this into a 2 gallon carboy, add 2 quarts of your wine (warmed to
72F-77F) and install airlock.
Repeat adding 2 quarts of your wine each day for two more days. You are
doing this to acclimate the expanding ML culture to the alcohol.
You now have 2 gallons of ML culture.
Wait 3-4 days, then pour this into your wine. If you wait too long, the
ML bacteria will starve, having eaten up most of the malic acid. You
can keep the culture alive by adding a couple of quarts of wine per day
until you are ready to use it, up to about a week. After that, the
volatile acids may become too high.

If I'm not mistaken, this should be enough active ML bacteria now to
inoculate your 130 gallons of wine.

Gene

----------------------------------------------

From the Wyeast web site:
http://www.wyeastlab.com/com_w_startercultures.cfm

Making a Starter Culture

Liquid yeast cultures can be expanded to inoculate larger volumes of
must. A small volume of liquid culture from Wyeast Laboratories can be
added to a small volume of must and allowed to ferment for 24 to 72
hours. This must can then be used to inoculate a larger volume of must.

Procedu

1. To create a starter culture one must first determine the final
volume of must that will be inoculated. The initial inoculum should be
0.5% of the total volume of the starter. For example: 1 liter of liquid
yeast from Wyeast would inoculate 200 liters of must. This will result
in a cell count of about 6.0 x 106 cells per ml.
2. Determine a propagation schedule to achieve the desired final
volume. Subsequent increases in volume should be in the range of 10 to
20 fold. For example: 1 liter of liquid yeast from Wyeast inoculates 200
liters of must, incubates for 72 hours, and then in turn inoculates 2000
liters of must.
3. Create initial starter culture. Incubate for 24 to 72 hours at
65° to 75°F (18° to 24°C).
4. Inoculate next or final volume of must. Incubate for 24 to 72
hours at 65° to 75°F (18° to 24°C) if increasing in volume again or set
to desired fermentation temperature if at final volume.
5. Aeration or oxygenation of the starter is essential for the
production of healthy yeast. Oxygen is used by the yeast to produce
sterols which are necessary for yeast growth. Oxygenation of must
increases the final cell density and improves the long term health of
the yeast culture.



It is important to understand that creating a starter can increase the
risk of infection by undesirable organisms. If non-sterile must is used,
then there are other organisms present that could multiply to
unacceptable levels. Use of either heat sterilized or sterile filtered
must or juice is recommended. Use of a broad spectrum yeast nutrient is
recommended for best results.

Wouldn't it just be easier to just use D254 or RC212 and don't add any
sulfites at the end of fermentation? MLF should be still going in the
fermentation. You don't need MLF bacteria. I've never used it and MLF
has never been a problem.

Bob

On Sep 26, 5:19 pm, gene wrote:
wrote:
So my local supplier is out of the dry ML bacteria. This means that my
other local option is to by the liquid stuff at a rate of $8.50 per 5
gallons of wine. I have 130 gallons, so this is not economical. I
have some questions for the group:
1) Is there a supplier on the east coast (new England preferably) that
I can get the dry drom and have it shipped? I think some types need
to be frozen - so that is expensive to ship.
2) Are there any types that don't have to be frozen or cold during
transport?
3) Can I buy some of the expensive stuff locally and get by with less,
or grow more from it?
4) Any other ideas?

Thanks

Hmmmmmmmm.... I haven't tried this approach; would this scale-up process
expand the ML bacteria population enough to work?...
How about buying one of the 5gal doses, put 5 gallons of your wine into
a carboy [make the ML culture most happy with wine at SO2 less than
20ppm, adjust pH to 3.6-3.9 with calcium carbonate, adjust temperature
to 72F-77F], add the liquid ML culture, install the airlock, wait a few
days, then add that 5 gallon culture back to the remaining 125 gallons.

Or you could culture the ML bacteria like some commercial wineries do,
if you have access to a small amount more grapes.
The one I have adapted, below, is based on the Scott Laboratories
standard build-up proceduhttp://www.scottlaboratories.com/pro...documents/Malo...

[Note, most wineries buy quick-build up ML yeast and use a different
proceduhttp://www.scottlaboratories.com/pro...documents/Malo...
]

You buy one dose of the liquid ML culture (125ml for 5 gallon dose).
Mix 1 quart of grape must (72F-77F, pH 3.6-3.9, SO2 less than 20ppm) and
1 quart of chlorine-free water (72F-77F). Add a little ML-friendly
yeast (D254 and RC212 are good candidates). Add your liquid ML culture
and wait three days.
Put this into a 2 gallon carboy, add 2 quarts of your wine (warmed to
72F-77F) and install airlock.
Repeat adding 2 quarts of your wine each day for two more days. You are
doing this to acclimate the expanding ML culture to the alcohol.
You now have 2 gallons of ML culture.
Wait 3-4 days, then pour this into your wine. If you wait too long, the
ML bacteria will starve, having eaten up most of the malic acid. You
can keep the culture alive by adding a couple of quarts of wine per day
until you are ready to use it, up to about a week. After that, the
volatile acids may become too high.

If I'm not mistaken, this should be enough active ML bacteria now to
inoculate your 130 gallons of wine.

Gene

----------------------------------------------

From the Wyeast web site:http://www.wyeastlab.com/com_w_startercultures.cfm

Making a Starter Culture

Liquid yeast cultures can be expanded to inoculate larger volumes of
must. A small volume of liquid culture from Wyeast Laboratories can be
added to a small volume of must and allowed to ferment for 24 to 72
hours. This must can then be used to inoculate a larger volume of must.

Procedu

1. To create a starter culture one must first determine the final
volume of must that will be inoculated. The initial inoculum should be
0.5% of the total volume of the starter. For example: 1 liter of liquid
yeast from Wyeast would inoculate 200 liters of must. This will result
in a cell count of about 6.0 x 106 cells per ml.
2. Determine a propagation schedule to achieve the desired final
volume. Subsequent increases in volume should be in the range of 10 to
20 fold. For example: 1 liter of liquid yeast from Wyeast inoculates 200
liters of must, incubates for 72 hours, and then in turn inoculates 2000
liters of must.
3. Create initial starter culture. Incubate for 24 to 72 hours at
65° to 75°F (18° to 24°C).
4. Inoculate next or final volume of must. Incubate for 24 to 72
hours at 65° to 75°F (18° to 24°C) if increasing in volume again or set
to desired fermentation temperature if at final volume.
5. Aeration or oxygenation of the starter is essential for the
production of healthy yeast. Oxygen is used by the yeast to produce
sterols which are necessary for yeast growth. Oxygenation of must
increases the final cell density and improves the long term health of
the yeast culture.

It is important to understand that creating a starter can increase the
risk of infection by undesirable organisms. If non-sterile must is used,
then there are other organisms present that could multiply to
unacceptable levels. Use of either heat sterilized or sterile filtered
must or juice is recommended. Use of a broad spectrum yeast nutrient is
recommended for best results.

wrote:

Wouldn't it just be easier to just use D254 or
RC212 and don't add any sulfites at the end of
fermentation? MLF should be still going in the
fermentation. You don't need MLF bacteria. I've
never used it and MLF has never been a problem.

Bob

As I understand it, there are different strains of
ML just as there are different strains of yeast.

Some of the "natural" strains can produce off
odors and tastes. Of course, there are those who
use the Natural yeast on the grapes also and do
not use a cultured wine yeast.

IMHO, it is best to innoculate with something
proven to be desirable rather than risk it. You
are correct, though, that more than likely given
enough time there will be a "natural" ML take
place. The result, however may not be to your
liking.

The price of the culture from the source I
mentioned is not all that expensive.



On Sep 26, 5:19 pm, gene
wrote:
wrote:
So my local supplier is out of the dry ML
bacteria. This means that my other local
option is to by the liquid stuff at a rate of
$8.50 per 5
gallons of wine. I have 130 gallons, so this
is not economical. I have some questions for
the group: 1) Is there a supplier on the east
coast (new England preferably) that
I can get the dry drom and have it shipped?
I think some types need to be frozen - so
that is expensive to ship. 2) Are there any
types that don't have to be frozen or cold
during transport? 3) Can I buy some of the
expensive stuff locally and get by with less,
or grow more from it? 4) Any other ideas?

Thanks

Hmmmmmmmm.... I haven't tried this approach;
would this scale-up process expand the ML
bacteria population enough to work?... How
about buying one of the 5gal doses, put 5
gallons of your wine into a carboy [make the ML
culture most happy with wine at SO2 less than
20ppm, adjust pH to 3.6-3.9 with calcium
carbonate, adjust temperature to 72F-77F], add
the liquid ML culture, install the airlock,
wait a few days, then add that 5 gallon culture
back to the remaining 125 gallons.

Or you could culture the ML bacteria like some
commercial wineries do, if you have access to a
small amount more grapes. The one I have
adapted, below, is based on the Scott
Laboratories standard build-up

proceduhttp://www.scottlaboratories.com/pro...documents/Malo...

[Note, most wineries buy quick-build up ML
[yeast and use a different

proceduhttp://www.scottlaboratories.com/pro...documents/Malo...
]

You buy one dose of the liquid ML culture
(125ml for 5 gallon dose). Mix 1 quart of grape
must (72F-77F, pH 3.6-3.9, SO2 less than 20ppm)
and
1 quart of chlorine-free water (72F-77F). Add
a little ML-friendly yeast (D254 and RC212 are
good candidates). Add your liquid ML culture
and wait three days. Put this into a 2 gallon
carboy, add 2 quarts of your wine (warmed to
72F-77F) and install airlock.
Repeat adding 2 quarts of your wine each day
for two more days. You are doing this to
acclimate the expanding ML culture to the
alcohol. You now have 2 gallons of ML culture.
Wait 3-4 days, then pour this into your wine.
If you wait too long, the
ML bacteria will starve, having eaten up most
of the malic acid. You can keep the culture
alive by adding a couple of quarts of wine per
day
until you are ready to use it, up to about a
week. After that, the volatile acids may
become too high.

If I'm not mistaken, this should be enough
active ML bacteria now to inoculate your 130
gallons of wine.

Gene

----------------------------------------------

From the Wyeast web

site:http://www.wyeastlab.com/com_w_startercultures.cfm

Making a Starter Culture

Liquid yeast cultures can be expanded to
inoculate larger volumes of must. A small
volume of liquid culture from Wyeast
Laboratories can be added to a small volume of
must and allowed to ferment for 24 to 72 hours.
This must can then be used to inoculate a
larger volume of must.

Procedu

1. To create a starter culture one must
first determine the final
volume of must that will be inoculated. The
initial inoculum should be 0.5% of the total
volume of the starter. For example: 1 liter of
liquid yeast from Wyeast would inoculate 200
liters of must. This will result in a cell
count of about 6.0 x 106 cells per ml.
2. Determine a propagation schedule to
achieve the desired final
volume. Subsequent increases in volume should
be in the range of 10 to 20 fold. For example:
1 liter of liquid yeast from Wyeast inoculates
200 liters of must, incubates for 72 hours, and
then in turn inoculates 2000 liters of must.
3. Create initial starter culture. Incubate
for 24 to 72 hours at
65° to 75°F (18° to 24°C).
4. Inoculate next or final volume of must.
Incubate for 24 to 72
hours at 65° to 75°F (18° to 24°C) if
increasing in volume again or set to desired
fermentation temperature if at final volume.
5. Aeration or oxygenation of the starter
is essential for the
production of healthy yeast. Oxygen is used by
the yeast to produce sterols which are
necessary for yeast growth. Oxygenation of must
increases the final cell density and improves
the long term health of the yeast culture.

It is important to understand that creating a
starter can increase the risk of infection by
undesirable organisms. If non-sterile must is
used, then there are other organisms present
that could multiply to unacceptable levels. Use
of either heat sterilized or sterile filtered
must or juice is recommended. Use of a broad
spectrum yeast nutrient is recommended for best
results.

Awesome. I called presque and they are sending some out on monday so
I wont have to worry about it sitting in a truck over a sunday. I
have most of the must in extended maceration right now. I am at 1
week post ferment and it hhas been warm, so the must is about 80. By
the time the ml culture gets here it will be in the 70s. I'll give it
a cople days on the must then press.
Thanks alot for the great suggestions.

Marc

Paul,

That's fair. I haven't had any problems with natural MLF. Maybe
because I keep the fermentation environment condusive to clean
fermentations. I'm not trying to talk anyone out of buying the MLF
bacteria, just saying it's not absolutely necessary in case he didn't
know.

Bob



On Sep 26, 9:46 pm, "Paul E. Lehmann" wrote:
wrote:
Wouldn't it just be easier to just use D254 or
RC212 and don't add any sulfites at the end of
fermentation? MLF should be still going in the
fermentation. You don't need MLF bacteria. I've
never used it and MLF has never been a problem.

Bob

As I understand it, there are different strains of
ML just as there are different strains of yeast.

Some of the "natural" strains can produce off
odors and tastes. Of course, there are those who
use the Natural yeast on the grapes also and do
not use a cultured wine yeast.

IMHO, it is best to innoculate with something
proven to be desirable rather than risk it. You
are correct, though, that more than likely given
enough time there will be a "natural" ML take
place. The result, however may not be to your
liking.

The price of the culture from the source I
mentioned is not all that expensive.





On Sep 26, 5:19 pm, gene
wrote:
wrote:
So my local supplier is out of the dry ML
bacteria. This means that my other local
option is to by the liquid stuff at a rate of
$8.50 per 5
gallons of wine. I have 130 gallons, so this
is not economical. I have some questions for
the group: 1) Is there a supplier on the east
coast (new England preferably) that
I can get the dry drom and have it shipped?
I think some types need to be frozen - so
that is expensive to ship. 2) Are there any
types that don't have to be frozen or cold
during transport? 3) Can I buy some of the
expensive stuff locally and get by with less,
or grow more from it? 4) Any other ideas?

Thanks

Hmmmmmmmm.... I haven't tried this approach;
would this scale-up process expand the ML
bacteria population enough to work?... How
about buying one of the 5gal doses, put 5
gallons of your wine into a carboy [make the ML
culture most happy with wine at SO2 less than
20ppm, adjust pH to 3.6-3.9 with calcium
carbonate, adjust temperature to 72F-77F], add
the liquid ML culture, install the airlock,
wait a few days, then add that 5 gallon culture
back to the remaining 125 gallons.

Or you could culture the ML bacteria like some
commercial wineries do, if you have access to a
small amount more grapes. The one I have
adapted, below, is based on the Scott
Laboratories standard build-up

proceduhttp://www.scottlaboratories.com/pro...documents/Malo...

[Note, most wineries buy quick-build up ML
[yeast and use a different

proceduhttp://www.scottlaboratories.com/pro...documents/Malo...

]

You buy one dose of the liquid ML culture
(125ml for 5 gallon dose). Mix 1 quart of grape
must (72F-77F, pH 3.6-3.9, SO2 less than 20ppm)
and
1 quart of chlorine-free water (72F-77F). Add
a little ML-friendly yeast (D254 and RC212 are
good candidates). Add your liquid ML culture
and wait three days. Put this into a 2 gallon
carboy, add 2 quarts of your wine (warmed to
72F-77F) and install airlock.
Repeat adding 2 quarts of your wine each day
for two more days. You are doing this to
acclimate the expanding ML culture to the
alcohol. You now have 2 gallons of ML culture.
Wait 3-4 days, then pour this into your wine.
If you wait too long, the
ML bacteria will starve, having eaten up most
of the malic acid. You can keep the culture
alive by adding a couple of quarts of wine per
day
until you are ready to use it, up to about a
week. After that, the volatile acids may
become too high.

If I'm not mistaken, this should be enough
active ML bacteria now to inoculate your 130
gallons of wine.

Gene

----------------------------------------------

From the Wyeast web

site:http://www.wyeastlab.com/com_w_startercultures.cfm



Making a Starter Culture

Liquid yeast cultures can be expanded to
inoculate larger volumes of must. A small
volume of liquid culture from Wyeast
Laboratories can be added to a small volume of
must and allowed to ferment for 24 to 72 hours.
This must can then be used to inoculate a
larger volume of must.

Procedu

1. To create a starter culture one must
first determine the final
volume of must that will be inoculated. The
initial inoculum should be 0.5% of the total
volume of the starter. For example: 1 liter of
liquid yeast from Wyeast would inoculate 200
liters of must. This will result in a cell
count of about 6.0 x 106 cells per ml.
2. Determine a propagation schedule to
achieve the desired final
volume. Subsequent increases in volume should
be in the range of 10 to 20 fold. For example:
1 liter of liquid yeast from Wyeast inoculates
200 liters of must, incubates for 72 hours, and
then in turn inoculates 2000 liters of must.
3. Create initial starter culture. Incubate
for 24 to 72 hours at
65° to 75°F (18° to 24°C).
4. Inoculate next or final volume of must.
Incubate for 24 to 72
hours at 65° to 75°F (18° to 24°C) if
increasing in volume again or set to desired
fermentation temperature if at final volume.
5. Aeration or oxygenation of the starter
is essential for the
production of healthy yeast. Oxygen is used by
the yeast to produce sterols which are
necessary for yeast growth. Oxygenation of must
increases the final cell density and improves
the long term health of the yeast culture.

It is important to understand that creating a
starter can increase the risk of infection by
undesirable organisms. If non-sterile must is
used, then there are other organisms present
that could multiply to unacceptable levels. Use
of either heat sterilized or sterile filtered
must or juice is recommended. Use of a broad
spectrum yeast nutrient is recommended for best
results.

wrote:

Paul,

That's fair. I haven't had any problems with
natural MLF. Maybe
because I keep the fermentation environment
condusive to clean fermentations. I'm not trying
to talk anyone out of buying the MLF bacteria,
just saying it's not absolutely necessary in
case he didn't know.

Bob

One of the other problems I see is that the
"natural" ML is unpredictable as to when it might
occur. It may happen during the primary
fermentation or during the spring time and or
perhaps after you have bottled.

I say if it works for you or others, and you are
happy with the results, keep doing what works for
you.

I like to have a little more control over it since
like you said, it is likely to happen anyhow. I
like it to happen early so I can sulphite my wine
without worrying about getting the sulphite
levels to high to prevent or inhibit ML.




On Sep 26, 9:46 pm, "Paul E. Lehmann"
wrote:
wrote:
Wouldn't it just be easier to just use D254
or RC212 and don't add any sulfites at the
end of fermentation? MLF should be still
going in the fermentation. You don't need MLF
bacteria. I've never used it and MLF has
never been a problem.

Bob

As I understand it, there are different strains
of ML just as there are different strains of
yeast.

Some of the "natural" strains can produce off
odors and tastes. Of course, there are those
who use the Natural yeast on the grapes also
and do not use a cultured wine yeast.

IMHO, it is best to innoculate with something
proven to be desirable rather than risk it. You
are correct, though, that more than likely
given enough time there will be a "natural" ML
take
place. The result, however may not be to your
liking.

The price of the culture from the source I
mentioned is not all that expensive.





On Sep 26, 5:19 pm, gene
wrote:
wrote:
So my local supplier is out of the dry ML
bacteria. This means that my other local
option is to by the liquid stuff at a rate
of $8.50 per 5
gallons of wine. I have 130 gallons, so
this
is not economical. I have some questions
for the group: 1) Is there a supplier on
the east coast (new England preferably)
that I can get the dry drom and have it
shipped? I think some types need to be
frozen - so that is expensive to ship. 2)
Are there any types that don't have to be
frozen or cold during transport? 3) Can I
buy some of the expensive stuff locally
and get by with less, or grow more from
it? 4) Any other ideas?

Thanks

Hmmmmmmmm.... I haven't tried this approach;
would this scale-up process expand the ML
bacteria population enough to work?... How
about buying one of the 5gal doses, put 5
gallons of your wine into a carboy [make the
ML culture most happy with wine at SO2 less
than 20ppm, adjust pH to 3.6-3.9 with
calcium carbonate, adjust temperature to
72F-77F], add the liquid ML culture, install
the airlock, wait a few days, then add that
5 gallon culture back to the remaining 125
gallons.

Or you could culture the ML bacteria like
some commercial wineries do, if you have
access to a small amount more grapes. The
one I have adapted, below, is based on the
Scott Laboratories standard build-up


proceduhttp://www.scottlaboratories.com/pro...documents/Malo...

[Note, most wineries buy quick-build up ML
[yeast and use a different


proceduhttp://www.scottlaboratories.com/pro...documents/Malo...

]

You buy one dose of the liquid ML culture
(125ml for 5 gallon dose). Mix 1 quart of
grape must (72F-77F, pH 3.6-3.9, SO2 less
than 20ppm) and
1 quart of chlorine-free water (72F-77F).
Add a little ML-friendly yeast (D254 and
RC212 are good candidates). Add your liquid
ML culture and wait three days. Put this
into a 2 gallon carboy, add 2 quarts of your
wine (warmed to 72F-77F) and install
airlock. Repeat adding 2 quarts of your wine
each day
for two more days. You are doing this to
acclimate the expanding ML culture to the
alcohol. You now have 2 gallons of ML
culture. Wait 3-4 days, then pour this into
your wine. If you wait too long, the
ML bacteria will starve, having eaten up
most
of the malic acid. You can keep the culture
alive by adding a couple of quarts of wine
per day
until you are ready to use it, up to about a
week. After that, the volatile acids may
become too high.

If I'm not mistaken, this should be enough
active ML bacteria now to inoculate your 130
gallons of wine.

Gene


----------------------------------------------

From the Wyeast web


site:http://www.wyeastlab.com/com_w_startercultures.cfm



Making a Starter Culture

Liquid yeast cultures can be expanded to
inoculate larger volumes of must. A small
volume of liquid culture from Wyeast
Laboratories can be added to a small volume
of must and allowed to ferment for 24 to 72
hours. This must can then be used to
inoculate a larger volume of must.

Procedu

1. To create a starter culture one must
first determine the final
volume of must that will be inoculated. The
initial inoculum should be 0.5% of the total
volume of the starter. For example: 1 liter
of liquid yeast from Wyeast would inoculate
200 liters of must. This will result in a
cell count of about 6.0 x 106 cells per ml.
2. Determine a propagation schedule to
achieve the desired final
volume. Subsequent increases in volume
should be in the range of 10 to 20 fold. For
example: 1 liter of liquid yeast from Wyeast
inoculates 200 liters of must, incubates for
72 hours, and then in turn inoculates 2000
liters of must.
3. Create initial starter culture.
Incubate for 24 to 72 hours at
65° to 75°F (18° to 24°C).
4. Inoculate next or final volume of
must. Incubate for 24 to 72
hours at 65° to 75°F (18° to 24°C) if
increasing in volume again or set to desired
fermentation temperature if at final volume.
5. Aeration or oxygenation of the
starter is essential for the
production of healthy yeast. Oxygen is used
by the yeast to produce sterols which are
necessary for yeast growth. Oxygenation of
must increases the final cell density and
improves the long term health of the yeast
culture.

It is important to understand that creating
a starter can increase the risk of infection
by undesirable organisms. If non-sterile
must is used, then there are other organisms
present that could multiply to unacceptable
levels. Use of either heat sterilized or
sterile filtered must or juice is
recommended. Use of a broad spectrum yeast
nutrient is recommended for best results.

On Sep 26, 3:48 pm, wrote:
So my local supplier is out of the dry ML bacteria. This means that my
other local option is to by the liquid stuff at a rate of $8.50 per 5
gallons of wine. I have 130 gallons, so this is not economical. I
have some questions for the group:
1) Is there a supplier on the east coast (new England preferably) that
I can get the dry drom and have it shipped? I think some types need
to be frozen - so that is expensive to ship.
2) Are there any types that don't have to be frozen or cold during
transport?
3) Can I buy some of the expensive stuff locally and get by with less,
or grow more from it?
4) Any other ideas?

Thanks

Call my supplier. I don't know if they ship but they have ML freeze
dried cultures.
Ed Marchetti
AFTEK, Inc.
740 Driving Park Ave.
Rochester, NY 14613
Phone: (585)458-7550
Fax: (585)458-7476

This man has been VERY good to me- they supply many of the wineries in
the Fingerlakes region in NY. If push comes to shove I can drop a
frozen packet of ML culture in an envelope and get it off to you- I
bought from last year in anticipation of this year (lower price & I'd
gotten burned with not being able to get cultures in time....)

Let me know how Ed works out-

Jason

wrote:

So my local supplier is out of the dry ML bacteria. This means that my
other local option is to by the liquid stuff at a rate of $8.50 per 5
gallons of wine. I have 130 gallons, so this is not economical. I
have some questions for the group:
1) Is there a supplier on the east coast (new England preferably) that
I can get the dry drom and have it shipped? I think some types need
to be frozen - so that is expensive to ship.
2) Are there any types that don't have to be frozen or cold during
transport?
3) Can I buy some of the expensive stuff locally and get by with less,
or grow more from it?
4) Any other ideas?

Thanks

1. Use Vinflora Oenos, this stuff works, and the preparation is easy.
Just open the packet and sprinkle in.

2. Get a vessel going well at say 78degrees F.

3.Spread this wine around at a rate of 2 percent innoculum into other
tanks, once it is going.

4. Once the vessel is through malo, rack off the lees. Spread the lees
around to tanks which are not through malolactic. Add sulphur dioxide to
the vessel that you rack into.


Presque Isle are a good supplier. The other is Gusmer Cellulo.