"Quite frequently, I explain to customers in the restaurant that the
Italian peninsula is one of the most exciting regions in the world as
far as winemaking is concerned. Great wines are being produced from as
far south as Sicily to the extreme northern regions of Piedmont and
everywhere in between."

http://www.dellasantinas.com/newslet...ne%202003.html

These reviews are three years old written by the people who are selling
the wine...what you you expect them to write?



"Quite frequently, I explain to customers in the restaurant ,that the

Italian peninsula is one of the most exciting regions in the world as

far as winemaking is concerned. Great wines are being produced from
as
far south as Sicily to the extreme northern regions of Piedmont and
everywhere in between."

I thought these were restaurant owners.


Bi!! wrote:
These reviews are three years old written by the people who are selling
the wine...what you you expect them to write?



"Quite frequently, I explain to customers in the restaurant ,that the

Italian peninsula is one of the most exciting regions in the world as

far as winemaking is concerned. Great wines are being produced from
as
far south as Sicily to the extreme northern regions of Piedmont and
everywhere in between."

Do you actually read the links that you submit here? They are
restaurant owners but if you had actually read the link or gone to
their web page you would see that they have and online wine sales
program as the link that you submitted was a pre-order form for the
wines that they were touting for that month. Would you expect them to
be any more fair or accurate than Parker, WS, et al? At least Parker
has nothing to sell but his advice. Why you would give creedence to a
small restaurant owner in Sonoma who is trying to sell wines online is
beyond me. FWIW, the web page for this restaurant hasn't been updated
since 2003 so if you're going to quote a link from the web make sure
it's at least current.
http://www.dellasantinas.com


I thought these were restaurant owners.

Bi!! wrote:
Do you actually read the links that you submit here? They are
restaurant owners but if you had actually read the link or gone to
their web page you would see that they have and online wine sales
program as the link that you submitted was a pre-order form for the
wines that they were touting for that month. Would you expect them to
be any more fair or accurate than Parker, WS, et al?

Why would they be biased? Being restaurant owners, why would they would
be interested in giving bad advice? They don't have to please
advertisers for Opus One, for instance.

At least Parker
has nothing to sell but his advice. Why you would give creedence to a
small restaurant owner in Sonoma who is trying to sell wines online is
beyond me. FWIW, the web page for this restaurant hasn't been updated
since 2003 so if you're going to quote a link from the web make sure
it's at least current.



http://www.dellasantinas.com


I thought these were restaurant owners.

Are you that naive? They're selling wine!!! It's called MARKETING.
They have an internet mail order wine business running from their
restaurant...if it's still open. They would be biased because they're
not going to tell anybody that the wine is swill even if it is because
the point is to sell wine and food....good bad or otherwise. BTW, Opus
One sells every bottle it makes every year and doesn't have to
advertise. It is a highly allocated wine here in Ohio and I doubt if
you actually saw someone buying a whole case (it comes in 6 packs) of
it since the entire State only receives a small allotment each year and
very few wine stores in Columbus get much more than a 6 pack. I'm a
wine wholesaler in Columbus and I know virtually every retail store
owner in Columbus.


Bi!! wrote:
Do you actually read the links that you submit here? They are
restaurant owners but if you had actually read the link or gone to
their web page you would see that they have and online wine sales
program as the link that you submitted was a pre-order form for the
wines that they were touting for that month. Would you expect them to
be any more fair or accurate than Parker, WS, et al?

Scarpetti wrote
Why would they be biased? Being restaurant owners, why would they
would
be interested in giving bad advice? They don't have to please
advertisers for Opus One, for instance.

Bi!! wrote:
Are you that naive? They're selling wine!!! It's called MARKETING.
They have an internet mail order wine business running from their
restaurant...if it's still open. They would be biased because they're
not going to tell anybody that the wine is swill even if it is because
the point is to sell wine and food....good bad or otherwise. BTW, Opus
One sells every bottle it makes every year and doesn't have to
advertise. It is a highly allocated wine here in Ohio and I doubt if
you actually saw someone buying a whole case (it comes in 6 packs) of
it since the entire State only receives a small allotment each year and
very few wine stores in Columbus get much more than a 6 pack. I'm a
wine wholesaler in Columbus and I know virtually every retail store
owner in Columbus.

Well, maybe it was a mixed case I saw him buying. I wasn't that close
to see.

Regardless, Opus One is a big joke to the wine retailers. One clerk
just laughed when I pointed to it, and asked: 'What sort of customer
buys this stuff?'

I'm sure that this wine is not worth $165.

Why can't I get Il Falcone or Giacosa Grignolino? These wines were
readily available formerly.


Bi!! wrote:
Do you actually read the links that you submit here? They are
restaurant owners but if you had actually read the link or gone to
their web page you would see that they have and online wine sales
program as the link that you submitted was a pre-order form for the
wines that they were touting for that month. Would you expect them to
be any more fair or accurate than Parker, WS, et al?

Scarpetti wrote
Why would they be biased? Being restaurant owners, why would they
would
be interested in giving bad advice? They don't have to please
advertisers for Opus One, for instance.

FWIW, Opus One comes in wooden cases holding 6 bottles. It's worth is
what the market will bear and the market seems to bear a lot more than
$165. The wine is not a joke to retailers...it's a huge money maker.
They can charge more than State minimum and it never has to sit in
inventory. Quick turnover, large profit margins...I can see why it's
such a joke to retailers.

I didn't know that Giacosa made Grignolino and the Il Falcone is a
tough sell so I suspect that not much of it makes it to Ohio. I don't
carry either wine.


Bi!! wrote:
Are you that naive? They're selling wine!!! It's called MARKETING.
They have an internet mail order wine business running from their
restaurant...if it's still open. They would be biased because they're
not going to tell anybody that the wine is swill even if it is because
the point is to sell wine and food....good bad or otherwise. BTW, Opus
One sells every bottle it makes every year and doesn't have to
advertise. It is a highly allocated wine here in Ohio and I doubt if
you actually saw someone buying a whole case (it comes in 6 packs) of
it since the entire State only receives a small allotment each year and
very few wine stores in Columbus get much more than a 6 pack. I'm a
wine wholesaler in Columbus and I know virtually every retail store
owner in Columbus.

M Scarpetti wrote:
Well, maybe it was a mixed case I saw him buying. I wasn't that close
to see.

Regardless, Opus One is a big joke to the wine retailers. One clerk
just laughed when I pointed to it, and asked: 'What sort of customer
buys this stuff?'


I'm sure that this wine is not worth $165.


Why can't I get Il Falcone or Giacosa Grignolino? These wines were
readily available formerly.



- Hide quoted text -

Bi!! wrote:
FWIW, Opus One comes in wooden cases holding 6 bottles. It's worth is
what the market will bear and the market seems to bear a lot more than
$165. The wine is not a joke to retailers...it's a huge money maker.
They can charge more than State minimum and it never has to sit in
inventory. Quick turnover, large profit margins...I can see why it's
such a joke to retailers.

It's a joke from the price/quality standpoint.

I didn't know that Giacosa made Grignolino

One of the best I have ever had..

and the Il Falcone is a
tough sell so I suspect that not much of it makes it to Ohio.

Il Falcone a 'tough sell'? How so? Too many retailers let the wine
magazines inform their customers and 'mold' the market. Personal
service is not as good as I would like to see. Many retailers simply
stock what they think people want. So, you have little leadership on
the part of the props to do any 'selling'. To me, this makes little
sense. Why carry mostly wine that customers can buy anywhere? With a
little effort, you can turn a customer on to something that only you
carry. That customer will become a loyal one. Even if another shop
starts carrying it, the customer will tend to buy from the retailer
that provided the 'tip'.

I don't
carry either wine.

Too bad. When I was in Florence for a few day about 10 years ago,
tried to find some Grignolino, but the shops had mostly Tuscan wines
and some Piedmontese. When I was at the airport, I saw a woman carrying
some wine. Guess what it was! Grignolino!!! I was so mad I could
spit!!!!

In the 19th century, Grignolino was the most highly respected wine in
Piedmont.

Bi!! wrote:
Are you that naive? They're selling wine!!! It's called MARKETING.
They have an internet mail order wine business running from their
restaurant...if it's still open. They would be biased because they're
not going to tell anybody that the wine is swill even if it is because
the point is to sell wine and food....good bad or otherwise. BTW, Opus
One sells every bottle it makes every year and doesn't have to
advertise. It is a highly allocated wine here in Ohio and I doubt if
you actually saw someone buying a whole case (it comes in 6 packs) of
it since the entire State only receives a small allotment each year and
very few wine stores in Columbus get much more than a 6 pack. I'm a
wine wholesaler in Columbus and I know virtually every retail store
owner in Columbus.

M Scarpetti wrote:
Well, maybe it was a mixed case I saw him buying. I wasn't that close
to see.

Regardless, Opus One is a big joke to the wine retailers. One clerk
just laughed when I pointed to it, and asked: 'What sort of customer
buys this stuff?'


I'm sure that this wine is not worth $165.


Why can't I get Il Falcone or Giacosa Grignolino? These wines were
readily available formerly.



- Hide quoted text -

JEP62 wrote:
Quick turnover, large profit margins...I can see why it's
such a joke to retailers.

They're laughing all the way to the bank.

On six bottles a year?

It's a joke from the price/quality standpoint.

Having never tried the wine I don't know how you could say that. Polly.

It's American. No American wine can be worth $165.

Besides, I don't know why you pick on Opus One. It not like it's the
latest cult wine or anything. It's not even yesterday's news, it's last
decade's news.

Il Falcone a 'tough sell'? How so? Too many retailers let the wine
magazines inform their customers and 'mold' the market. Personal
service is not as good as I would like to see. Many retailers simply
stock what they think people want.

They stock what sells.

Most wine shops around Columbus carry significant amounts of Italian
wine at all price points. Even carry-outs carry Cavit Pinot Grigio. My
point was why say Il Falcone is a tough sell? It's a great value.


So, you have little leadership on
the part of the props to do any 'selling'. To me, this makes little
sense.

Ever been in wine retail?

Why carry mostly wine that customers can buy anywhere?

Because it puts food on the table.

With a little effort, you can turn a customer on to something that only you
carry.

With a little effort and a big financial risk. What if the wines don't
sell despite their best efforts. Are they going to throw all that money
down the drain? Until Italian wines are perceived in a better light in
the US, they just aren't going to sell as well as wines from other
countries. It's a financial risk to any retailer that stocks a lot. And
frankly, your hated Parker and WS have probably done more in getting
the word out in the US on quality Italian wines than anyone else
because they do have a big audience that read and follow their
recommendations.

Of course retailers are willing to take some risk if they think the
potential pay off is good enough but why should they choose Italian
wines. There are so many wines from around the world they can turn
their customers on to. Why should they pick Italian especially when the
perceived QPR is so low?

That customer will become a loyal one. Even if another shop
starts carrying it, the customer will tend to buy from the retailer
that provided the 'tip'.

Until another retailer starts selling it for less. Then the customer is
gone in most cases.

Not in many states. The price is fixed by law. In Ohio, it's 150% of
cost. $10 wholesale translates into $15 retail. In other words, there
is no price competition.


Andy

JEP62:
Certain retailers have reputations among consumers of having knowledge of
Italian wines and some rarities in stock. Same goes for Burgundy, Germany,
Spain etc. A wholesaler will make sure this store gets offers & samples
despite the sales volume of the store.

Many stores lacking the capital or resources to stock everything, decide to
appeal to a "niche" market.

That's why I was hired part time to work for a retailer--because I knew
Italian & California wine. Odds were if we didn't carry an Italian wine--it
was not available. Same thing with new wineries in California(this was in
the mid 1980's).

Later as a wholesaler & broker, that was my "rep". In wine shops I was
pointed out to customers as someone who brings in La Tutti de Fruiti just
for them. That's how I competed to the big boys---finding a niche that
raises the profile of the shop.

Any store that sells spirits, beer & wine is doing it for the money and do
have to curb their enthusiasms so their inventory of uncommon wines is wide
not deep. I saw one store stock up on Burgundy, because the owner loved it,
but very few consumers were buying Burgundy. The only was they got sold was
in a pre-bankruptcy sale!

"JEP62" wrote in message
oups.com...
Quick turnover, large profit margins...I can see why it's
such a joke to retailers.

They're laughing all the way to the bank.

It's a joke from the price/quality standpoint.

Having never tried the wine I don't know how you could say that. Polly.
Besides, I don't know why you pick on Opus One. It not like it's the
latest cult wine or anything. It's not even yesterday's news, it's last
decade's news.

Il Falcone a 'tough sell'? How so? Too many retailers let the wine
magazines inform their customers and 'mold' the market. Personal
service is not as good as I would like to see. Many retailers simply
stock what they think people want.

They stock what sells.

So, you have little leadership on
the part of the props to do any 'selling'. To me, this makes little
sense.

Ever been in wine retail?

Why carry mostly wine that customers can buy anywhere?

Because it puts food on the table.

With a little effort, you can turn a customer on to something that only
you
carry.

With a little effort and a big financial risk. What if the wines don't
sell despite their best efforts. Are they going to throw all that money
down the drain? Until Italian wines are perceived in a better light in
the US, they just aren't going to sell as well as wines from other
countries. It's a financial risk to any retailer that stocks a lot. And
frankly, your hated Parker and WS have probably done more in getting
the word out in the US on quality Italian wines than anyone else
because they do have a big audience that read and follow their
recommendations.

Of course retailers are willing to take some risk if they think the
potential pay off is good enough but why should they choose Italian
wines. There are so many wines from around the world they can turn
their customers on to. Why should they pick Italian especially when the
perceived QPR is so low?

That customer will become a loyal one. Even if another shop
starts carrying it, the customer will tend to buy from the retailer
that provided the 'tip'.

Until another retailer starts selling it for less. Then the customer is
gone in most cases.

Andy

Joe "Beppe"Rosenberg wrote:
JEP62:
Certain retailers have reputations among consumers of having knowledge of
Italian wines and some rarities in stock. Same goes for Burgundy, Germany,
Spain etc. A wholesaler will make sure this store gets offers & samples
despite the sales volume of the store.

Yes, there are several wine shopes close to each other in the
Tri-Village area of Columbus, (Grandview, Marble Cliff. and Upper
Arlington). Each shop carries different mixes of wines, though of
course some lines of wine will be found at all of the shops. Why do I
go to some shops rather than others? Taken together, these four or five
shops cover a lot of territory. Each one does not have to carry an
enormous range of less popular or obscure wines, but if each carries a
few, that's good enough for most purposes. The main problem is not with
the retailers but with the distributors. If I want a particular wine,
most of these retailers can get it in a day or two if the distributor
carries it.

Many stores lacking the capital or resources to stock everything, decide to
appeal to a "niche" market.

Correct. I know some stores that carry lots of German wines that few
other stores bother with.

That's why I was hired part time to work for a retailer--because I knew
Italian & California wine. Odds were if we didn't carry an Italian wine--it
was not available. Same thing with new wineries in California (this was in
the mid 1980's).

Later as a wholesaler & broker, that was my "rep". In wine shops I was
pointed out to customers as someone who brings in La Tutti de Fruiti just
for them. That's how I competed to the big boys---finding a niche that
raises the profile of the shop.

Precisely.

Any store that sells spirits, beer & wine is doing it for the money and do
have to curb their enthusiasms so their inventory of uncommon wines is wide
not deep.

Correct. That's why you find 50 bottles of Pinot Grigio and hardly
anything else in Italian whites.

I saw one store stock up on Burgundy, because the owner loved it,
but very few consumers were buying Burgundy. The only was they got sold was
in a pre-bankruptcy sale!

"Beppe"

I agree with what you say. There are certainly stores that fit this
mold, but I would suggest they are a small percentage. The average
retailer must carry what the customer wants if they want to stay in
business. They may bring in and push a few new things but they just
can't afford to go too far.

Many years ago, I worked in liquor retail for a relatively large chain.
We had a reputation for carrying high end wines with a wide selection
for those that were interested.

95% of our customers were not interested and wanted their shot and a
beer after work or a gallon of Gallo for the weekend cookout. These
were the bread and butter customers that kept the store profitable and
they were just as important (or even more important) to the owner as
the guy that bought first growth Bordeaux.

First rule of retail, you have to sell what people want to buy.

Andy

JEP62 wrote:
wrote:

On six bottles a year?

I don't know any retailer that is going to sneeze at $330 (if not more)
for taking no risk and doing no work. Just get the wine and out it
goes. And hopefully become the go to store for people that are willing
to spend more than $5.99 for 1.5 liters even if the $5.99 guy is his
bread and butter customer.

It's American. No American wine can be worth $165.

Why do you have to come up with such assinine statements? It really
shows your total lack of knowledge in wines.

I have never tasted any American wine that approached the better wines
of Italy, Spain, or F_____.

Most wine shops around Columbus carry significant amounts of Italian
wine at all price points. Even carry-outs carry Cavit Pinot Grigio. My
point was why say Il Falcone is a tough sell? It's a great value.

Who's promoting it?

Who's promoting most imports?

Not in many states. The price is fixed by law. In Ohio, it's 150% of
cost. $10 wholesale translates into $15 retail. In other words, there
is no price competition.

I've never looked at the Ohio laws, but usually those laws set a
minimum markup not a set price.

The markup is set at three levels. Pretty much means price fixing.
There are hardly any wines under $9 these days, from anywhere.

One of the reason some retailers carry more obscure wine is because
they can take a higher mark up as there is no local competition.

The markup is the same on the obsure ones.

If
they can get customers interested, they have a higher profit margin so
it's worth taking a risk on an unknown. The problem is that as soon as
it becomes popular, other stores start to carry it and the original
retailer is forced to reduce the mark up to the minimum or lose the
customers.

Andy

wrote:

I have never tasted any American wine that approached the better wines
of Italy, Spain, or F_____.

That's an empty statement. Means less than nothing since you claim to
only drink Italian wines. Your lack of experience doesn't prove your
point.

I could easily say; I've never met an Ohio resident that has shown even
a basic understanding of good wine.

Who's promoting most imports?

It depends. Many times it's the winery itself through advertising or
more commonly through various wine tastings. Importers promote certain
wines, as do wholesalers.

My rhetorical question was supposed to get you to think rather than
reply. If no one is promoting the wine, what incentive does the
retailer have to risk money to stock it.

The markup is set at three levels. Pretty much means price fixing.

Again, I don't know Ohio's laws, but it doesn't work this way in other
states.

There are hardly any wines under $9 these days, from anywhere.

In other states there certainly are. Many choices from around the word.


The markup is the same on the obsure ones.

Not in most states. It sounds like your problem is with the way Ohio
does things rather than the way things work in a (semi) free market
society.

Andy