Cork Vs. Stelvin or screw caps

A quality producer in NZ does not think that Stelvin or Screw Cap works best
for long term aging wines....

http://www.temata.co.nz/noticeboard2.asp?aid=1

There are some that beleive TCA is an issue but that screw caps are not the
holy grail to fix this issue.

See link above.

"Richard Neidich" wrote ...........

A quality producer in NZ does not think that Stelvin or Screw Cap works
best for long term aging wines....


Dick, Te Mata is a long established producer with a stellar reputation -
their Coleraine (Bordeaux Blend); Elston (Chardonnay) & Bullnose (Syrah) all
feature among NZ best in each of those varietal categories - so there is no
doubting their credentials.

By co-incidence, I have recently spent two weeks in Hawkes Bay, and took the
opportunity to again visit Te Mata, and had a couple of glasses with
Nicholas Buck. (Mark Lipton and Ian Hoare will well remember our meeting
with this impressive young man).

We discussed the subject of cork vs screw cap at some length.

Much of their thinking is summed up in the last sentence of this article

"It is a changing world in the area of wine closures in recent years, but we
feel that we are offering the best closure for each wine style consistent
with our experience and **knowledge to date**."

And that is the key - they are *not* happy with traditional corks and
believe that the DIAM closure may offer the solution. Te Mata would
infinitiely prefer to use cork (in their ageworthy wines) but simply cannot
take the chance - it is like a lottery.

Please don't make the mistake of thinking that Oeneo's DIAM closure is
cork - they themselve call it a closure; and they are also keeping their
feet on both side of the fence - Oeneo also manufacture screwcap closures.

Just when does your first cheque arrive from the Lobby-for-Cork Institute
;-)

--

st.helier

No checks...just the anti Hoare, Proney and St. Hellier lobby. :-)

BTW..where has Ian been lately?

"st.helier" wrote in message
...
"Richard Neidich" wrote ...........

A quality producer in NZ does not think that Stelvin or Screw Cap works
best for long term aging wines....


Dick, Te Mata is a long established producer with a stellar reputation -
their Coleraine (Bordeaux Blend); Elston (Chardonnay) & Bullnose (Syrah)
all feature among NZ best in each of those varietal categories - so there
is no doubting their credentials.

By co-incidence, I have recently spent two weeks in Hawkes Bay, and took
the opportunity to again visit Te Mata, and had a couple of glasses with
Nicholas Buck. (Mark Lipton and Ian Hoare will well remember our meeting
with this impressive young man).

We discussed the subject of cork vs screw cap at some length.

Much of their thinking is summed up in the last sentence of this article

"It is a changing world in the area of wine closures in recent years, but
we feel that we are offering the best closure for each wine style
consistent with our experience and **knowledge to date**."

And that is the key - they are *not* happy with traditional corks and
believe that the DIAM closure may offer the solution. Te Mata would
infinitiely prefer to use cork (in their ageworthy wines) but simply
cannot take the chance - it is like a lottery.

Please don't make the mistake of thinking that Oeneo's DIAM closure is
cork - they themselve call it a closure; and they are also keeping their
feet on both side of the fence - Oeneo also manufacture screwcap closures.

Just when does your first cheque arrive from the Lobby-for-Cork Institute
;-)

--

st.helier

"Richard Neidich" asked......

BTW..where has Ian been lately?


Obviously, he and Jacquie are very busy (in the quiet season) working in/on
that little piece of paradise in the Correze before the tourist season
starts again.

I do note he surfaces occasionally with his words of wit and wisdom.

--

st.helier

To be accurate a direct quote from Temata web site is as follows:

"They are the new DIAM cork which is guaranteed to be free of cork taint. We
have been very happy with the performance of screwcaps on our Woodthorpe and
Rymer's Change wines during the last year. The screw cap closures remove any
chance of corkiness and every bottle is identical because air is completely
prevented from entering the bottle. We are yet to be convinced, however,
that screwcaps are the ideal closure for longer term cellaring, particularly
of red wines. "

Secondly St. Helier states:

"Please don't make the mistake of thinking that Oeneo's DIAM closure is
cork - they themselve call it a closure; and they are also keeping their
feet on both side of the fence - Oeneo also manufacture screwcap closures."

Diam Cork has a web site and this is a product made from cork.
http://www.oeneoclosuresusa.com/prod...s_diamond.html

Their site indicates this starts with cork and they remove "Extraction of
haloanisoles responsible for the phenomenon known as "cork taint"
(releasable TCA, TeCA, PCA, TBA)"

Therefore this is cork or composite from cork.

I know you want to slam the cork industry but come on now...you can do it
with fact instead of fiction can't you? :-)





"st.helier" wrote in message
...
"Richard Neidich" wrote ...........

A quality producer in NZ does not think that Stelvin or Screw Cap works
best for long term aging wines....


Dick, Te Mata is a long established producer with a stellar reputation -
their Coleraine (Bordeaux Blend); Elston (Chardonnay) & Bullnose (Syrah)
all feature among NZ best in each of those varietal categories - so there
is no doubting their credentials.

By co-incidence, I have recently spent two weeks in Hawkes Bay, and took
the opportunity to again visit Te Mata, and had a couple of glasses with
Nicholas Buck. (Mark Lipton and Ian Hoare will well remember our meeting
with this impressive young man).

We discussed the subject of cork vs screw cap at some length.

Much of their thinking is summed up in the last sentence of this article

"It is a changing world in the area of wine closures in recent years, but
we feel that we are offering the best closure for each wine style
consistent with our experience and **knowledge to date**."

And that is the key - they are *not* happy with traditional corks and
believe that the DIAM closure may offer the solution. Te Mata would
infinitiely prefer to use cork (in their ageworthy wines) but simply
cannot take the chance - it is like a lottery.

Please don't make the mistake of thinking that Oeneo's DIAM closure is
cork - they themselve call it a closure; and they are also keeping their
feet on both side of the fence - Oeneo also manufacture screwcap closures.

Just when does your first cheque arrive from the Lobby-for-Cork Institute
;-)

--

st.helier

Dick, a couple of points:

(1) The name of the winery is Te Mata (I don't care if you take the ****
out of me by deliberately spelling my name wrong - but the indigenous
population of NZ are very particular about their language) and 100,000 of
them live in the US. You know the sort - they are seeking out Mike Tyson for
"stealing" their cultural heritage in copying their facial tattoos!! ;-)

(2) To be accurate a direct quote from Temata web site is as follows:

So that everyone can see the article here is the link

http://www.temata.co.nz/noticeboard2.asp?aid=1

(3) The DIAM closure is reconstituted cork particle - not cork in the
traditional sense.

(4) Contrary to what you think, or say, or express in this forum, *** I
am not anti-cork*** - I am very discriminatory - I just slam any cork
which adversely affects my wine!!!!!!!!

I don't give a damn about tradition. You have previously indicated that you
are/have been in the food packaging business.

I'll bet you would not stand for any form of packaging which tainted even as
little of 0.01% of your product, let alone 2% or 5% or more.

--

st.helier

Temata Tomata who cares.

The Te Mata winery does refer to this product as a Diam Cork.

Diam Cork indicates that is is made from Cork.

You stated it was not cork...but it is.

Case closed.

They do not call me dick for nothing.



"st.helier" wrote in message
...
Dick, a couple of points:

(1) The name of the winery is Te Mata (I don't care if you take the
**** out of me by deliberately spelling my name wrong - but the indigenous
population of NZ are very particular about their language) and 100,000 of
them live in the US. You know the sort - they are seeking out Mike Tyson
for "stealing" their cultural heritage in copying their facial tattoos!!
;-)

(2) To be accurate a direct quote from Temata web site is as follows:

So that everyone can see the article here is the link

http://www.temata.co.nz/noticeboard2.asp?aid=1

(3) The DIAM closure is reconstituted cork particle - not cork in the
traditional sense.

(4) Contrary to what you think, or say, or express in this forum, *** I
am not anti-cork*** - I am very discriminatory - I just slam any cork
which adversely affects my wine!!!!!!!!

I don't give a damn about tradition. You have previously indicated that
you are/have been in the food packaging business.

I'll bet you would not stand for any form of packaging which tainted even
as little of 0.01% of your product, let alone 2% or 5% or more.

--

st.helier

And one final point....I would be willing to try this product if I could
find in USA even with its new closure.

Change is not always for the better. It sounds like Te Mata winery took
their time, studied and realized that Stelvin and other srew caps are not
the answer to quality reds that are long term keepers.

I applaud the fact that they studied it instead of listening to the few that
are simply anti cork and pro stelvin.

Sorry....that is true however.

Mike Pronay and Ian would probably state Stelvin is the cure for TCA,
Cancer, Heart and everything. I on the otherhand beleive the proof is in
the pudding and there is not any doubt that the Plumpjack that I had the
stelvin aged differently under Stelvin vs. Cork.



"st.helier" wrote in message
...
Dick, a couple of points:

(1) The name of the winery is Te Mata (I don't care if you take the
**** out of me by deliberately spelling my name wrong - but the indigenous
population of NZ are very particular about their language) and 100,000 of
them live in the US. You know the sort - they are seeking out Mike Tyson
for "stealing" their cultural heritage in copying their facial tattoos!!
;-)

(2) To be accurate a direct quote from Temata web site is as follows:

So that everyone can see the article here is the link

http://www.temata.co.nz/noticeboard2.asp?aid=1

(3) The DIAM closure is reconstituted cork particle - not cork in the
traditional sense.

(4) Contrary to what you think, or say, or express in this forum, *** I
am not anti-cork*** - I am very discriminatory - I just slam any cork
which adversely affects my wine!!!!!!!!

I don't give a damn about tradition. You have previously indicated that
you are/have been in the food packaging business.

I'll bet you would not stand for any form of packaging which tainted even
as little of 0.01% of your product, let alone 2% or 5% or more.

--

st.helier

Will have to order from California. The local distributor in NC no longer
is maintaining stock on this winery. They said it did not catch on here.
Te Mata.

Found it in Southern Cal so I will order. Amazing the price here vs NZ.
$49. US for Cab/Merlot.


"st.helier" wrote in message
...
"Richard Neidich" wrote
And one final point....I would be willing to try this product if I could
find in USA even with its new closure.


Dick, As previously indicated, the top Te Mata Wines which will be bottled
under DIAM a

Coleraine (Cabernet/Merlot)
Elston (Chardonnay)
Bullnose (Syrah)

I have no idea if these wines are available in your neck of the woods,
but, from the Te Mata website, their US distributor is:

American Estates Wines
19 Hillside Avenue Summit
New Jersey 07901
USA
Tel (+1 908) 273 5060
Fax (+1 908) 273 5068

www.eAmericanEstates.com

I recommend each as a first rate example of the wines of the Hawkes Bay
region of New Zealand.
--

st.helier

"Richard Neidich" wrote .....


Found it in Southern Cal so I will order. Amazing the price here vs NZ.
$49. US for Cab/Merlot.


$US49 sounds like a very good price for Coleraine - it retails here for
$NZ60-65

--

st.helier

Richard N said:

Found it in Southern Cal so I will order. Amazing the price here vs NZ.
$49. US for Cab/Merlot.

Pleased to be able to sell some of our wine in the US.
We need the money......balance of payments deficit $10billion and rising.

Don't forget to write us a TN.....

cheers greybeard

The imported in NJ gave me the name of the local distributor in NC called
Dioniases in the Raleigh area.

I told the local retailer to contact them and they did as they deal with
them regularly.

The local rep indicated it was not available.

I am contacting the importer as their local dist does not care to
distribute.

Meanwhile I am ordering from California retailer to try.


"greybeard" wrote in message
news:1142032191.617666@ftpsrv1...
Richard N said:

Found it in Southern Cal so I will order. Amazing the price here vs NZ.
$49. US for Cab/Merlot.

Pleased to be able to sell some of our wine in the US.
We need the money......balance of payments deficit $10billion and rising.

Don't forget to write us a TN.....

cheers greybeard