Many a time I read that German wine labels are difficult to read and
confusing but on the other hand, nobody rants about French labels. It seems
everyone in the World reads French. As an Asian who doesn't understand both
languages, the two are as uninterpretable. So much has been raved about the
Sauternes but only few have heard about the Trockenbeerenauslese which is as
tasty. Who first come across botrytis? Was it not a German? Somehow the
whole world got the impression that the "best" wines come only from France,
paying through their nose for "top" Bordeauxs and Burgundies. In reality,
wines from Spain, Italy, Germany etc are as good in quality and cost a lot
less. In a recent blind tasting in France, French judges were astonished
when they realized the top wine voted was American. Many people's genuine
taste and liking are somewhat clouded by brands, trend and fashion. A good
example would be like some of the nouveau riches in China who bought French
classics like the Petrus to show that they are into sophisticated wine
drinking but privately drank them with some lemonade. An Italian Lambrusco
would have kept them happier for just a fraction of what they had spent.

Mike Tommasi wrote in
:

I think you are touching on a lot of interesting points in a very
confused manner.

I agree!!!

Given the above, and in the spirit of your email, trying to
extrapolate as generic a statement as possible from my limited but not
trivial wine experience, my impression is that in France I can drink
truly excellent wine at prices ranging from 5 to 12 Euro, while in
neighbouring Italy (and I am a native italian that spends a few days
every month there) for that price range it is almost impossible to
find anything comparable in quality. Note that 8 years ago I would
have firmly stated the opposite, wines prices in Italy have gone
throuhg the roof since.


So true also in Spain. 8 years ago (about the time I got interested in
wine), I could find very interesting wines in the 5 euros range. I learnt
a lot in the sub-1000 pesetas (equivalent to 6 euros) with wines from the
known and the emerging D.O.s. No longer. Plonk wines in that category
probably remain in the sub-7 euros (account for inflation, if you want)
but the good ones have even doubled its price.

80% of the new wines that arrive to the market are over 15 euros now in
Spain, it does not matter if it comes from a prestigious D.O. where land
is expensive or an emerging one. I would not care if the wine was good,
but 75% of the time, they are selling ordinaire wine in a nice bottle at
an outrageously price. And many of the wines carry an oak excedent that
the grapes did not merit in any way.

At the same time, dealers are bringing excellent wines from other
countries, and you can find austrian whites that are better than 90% of
the spanish whites at a fraction of the cost. I have even bought and
drunk Premier Cru Chablis from good vintages at prices in the 6-7 euros
frontier. Last week I bought a Bordeaux Superieur at 4,85 euros in El
Corte Ingles which was very, very nice. A good merlot based blend with a
touch of oak, not a single defect, and easy to drink. Ok, not La
Conseillante, but better than 99% of the spanish wine below 5 euros.

And then I started thinking of what I had written a couple of days
before, and went back to the shop and bought 6 more bottles to help this
good producer get out from the crisis. And my wallet, I must add.

Best,

S.

"Who first come across botrytis? Was it not a German? "

Er, I think it was a Hungarian from Tokaji.

"Somehow the
whole world got the impression that the "best" wines come only from
France,
paying through their nose for "top" Bordeauxs and Burgundies. In
reality,
wines from Spain, Italy, Germany etc are as good in quality and cost a
lot
less."

Well, using botrytized wines as an example doesn't really prove your
point- as a class TBAs are the most expensive wines in the world. Only
Yquem even comes close to the release prices of most top German TBAs.

" In a recent blind tasting in France, French judges were astonished
when they realized the top wine voted was American. "

Recent, or 1976?

While I am an admitted Francophile, I certainly appreciate the wines of
many countries, and prize the differences. One strength that France
does have, rivaled only by maybe Italy, is the large variance in styles
that are offered at "world-class" quality levels. The great thing about
France to me is not Petrus or DRC, but that almost every region offers
a world-class wine in a unique style. I know others would offer US or
Australia as examples, but to my tastes they offer fewer expressions of
styles (especially in whites) than France.

Five things I do not like about the French or what they call their
government
1, Collaboration with Nazi's in World War 2--In about 1943 when it was clear
the Axis was not going to run over the Allies a few back tracked and tried
to hide the deportations, work camps etc

2. Getting the US stuck in Indo-China--when we kicked the Japanese out in
1945, we let the French back in--instead of granting independence---How well
did that work?

3.. Development of a nuclear arsenal--and selling to such stable governments
as North Korea, Pakistan, & Iran. Osama lives in Pakistan under tacit
acceptance by their government---if we cross the border to get him will it
sparks an overthrow of a friendly regime--do we want to give the jihads the
nukes sold to Pakistan by La Belle France

4. Letting the sale of French products like weapons and the purchase of oil
from the more anti-American countries lead to denunciation of Israel and/or
Zionism and the virtual carte blanche to bomb synagogues. Yes I know the
Rothschild are powerful but all they get is weak apologies & Lapin gets
stronger

5. (You thought I'd mention DeGaulle-nah) Getting the US & Brits involved
in the first World War over spheres of influence. If they kept their cool
in 1914 our boys never would have gone "Over There" ++++ as a bonus we got a
policy of financial retribution that destabilized Germany leading to the
rise of the Nazi's thanks to the other Allies outmaneuvering Woodrow Wilson
at Versailles.

The USA was helped by Lafayette in the late 1700's--we've been paying that
ungrateful country(see DeGaulle, Charles) with our soldiers blood ever
since. Oh yeah thanks for the Statute of Liberty, who paid to put it
up?--those cowboy US citizens the French mock. The French kept their
resources so they could plunder their colonies and afford public lynchings
like the Dreyfuss affair.

So as far as I'm concerned they can can take their Galois smokes & oeufs and
shove it. I love Bordeaux & the Rhone and the better reasonably priced
Burgs and drink them. I would not boycott them--boycotting is not an
American value but is a tradition our les Amis, Le Belle France.

So what if they sneer at our tourists while they bank our dollars. Yes they
make the world best wine and charge dearly for it while they slip some
Moroccan plonk into Burgundy bottles





"DaleW" wrote in message
oups.com...
"Who first come across botrytis? Was it not a German? "

Er, I think it was a Hungarian from Tokaji.

"Somehow the
whole world got the impression that the "best" wines come only from
France,
paying through their nose for "top" Bordeauxs and Burgundies. In
reality,
wines from Spain, Italy, Germany etc are as good in quality and cost a
lot
less."

Well, using botrytized wines as an example doesn't really prove your
point- as a class TBAs are the most expensive wines in the world. Only
Yquem even comes close to the release prices of most top German TBAs.

" In a recent blind tasting in France, French judges were astonished
when they realized the top wine voted was American. "

Recent, or 1976?

While I am an admitted Francophile, I certainly appreciate the wines of
many countries, and prize the differences. One strength that France
does have, rivaled only by maybe Italy, is the large variance in styles
that are offered at "world-class" quality levels. The great thing about
France to me is not Petrus or DRC, but that almost every region offers
a world-class wine in a unique style. I know others would offer US or
Australia as examples, but to my tastes they offer fewer expressions of
styles (especially in whites) than France.

Joe wrote on Mon, 2 Jan 2006 11:00:39 -0500:

JBR 2. Getting the US stuck in Indo-China--when we kicked the
JBR Japanese out in 1945, we let the French back in--instead
JBR of granting independence---How well did that work?

JBR 3.. Development of a nuclear arsenal--and selling to such
JBR stable governments as North Korea, Pakistan, & Iran.
JBR Osama lives in Pakistan under tacit acceptance by their
JBR government---if we cross the border to get him will it
JBR sparks an overthrow of a friendly regime--do we want to
JBR give the jihads the nukes sold to Pakistan by La Belle
JBR France

JBR 4. Letting the sale of French products like weapons and
JBR the purchase of oil from the more anti-American countries
JBR lead to denunciation of Israel and/or Zionism and the
JBR virtual carte blanche to bomb synagogues. Yes I know the
JBR Rothschild are powerful but all they get is weak apologies
JBR & Lapin gets stronger

JBR 5. (You thought I'd mention DeGaulle-nah) Getting the US
JBR & Brits involved in the first World War over spheres of
JBR influence. If they kept their cool in 1914 our boys never
JBR would have gone "Over There" ++++ as a bonus we got a
JBR policy of financial retribution that destabilized Germany
JBR leading to the rise of the Nazi's thanks to the other
JBR Allies outmaneuvering Woodrow Wilson at Versailles.

JBR The USA was helped by Lafayette in the late 1700's--we've
JBR been paying that ungrateful country(see DeGaulle, Charles)
JBR with our soldiers blood ever since. Oh yeah thanks for the
JBR Statute of Liberty, who paid to put it up?--those cowboy
JBR US citizens the French mock. The French kept their
JBR resources so they could plunder their colonies and afford
JBR public lynchings like the Dreyfuss affair.

JBR So as far as I'm concerned they can can take their Galois
JBR smokes & oeufs and shove it. I love Bordeaux & the Rhone
JBR and the better reasonably priced Burgs and drink them. I
JBR would not boycott them--boycotting is not an American
JBR value but is a tradition our les Amis, Le Belle France.

JBR So what if they sneer at our tourists while they bank our
JBR dollars. Yes they make the world best wine and charge
JBR dearly for it while they slip some Moroccan plonk into
JBR Burgundy bottles

JBR "DaleW" wrote in message
JBR
oups.com...
?? "Who first come across botrytis? Was it not a German? "
??
?? Er, I think it was a Hungarian from Tokaji.
??
?? "Somehow the
?? whole world got the impression that the "best" wines come
?? only from France, paying through their nose for "top"
?? Bordeauxs and Burgundies. In reality, wines from Spain,
?? Italy, Germany etc are as good in quality and cost
?? a lot less."
??
?? Well, using botrytized wines as an example doesn't really
?? prove your point- as a class TBAs are the most expensive
?? wines in the world. Only Yquem even comes close to the
?? release prices of most top German TBAs.
??
?? " In a recent blind tasting in France, French judges were
?? astonished when they realized the top wine voted was
?? American. "
??
?? Recent, or 1976?
??
?? While I am an admitted Francophile, I certainly appreciate
?? the wines of many countries, and prize the differences.
?? One strength that France does have, rivaled only by maybe
?? Italy, is the large variance in styles that are offered at
?? "world-class" quality levels. The great thing about France
?? to me is not Petrus or DRC, but that almost every region
?? offers a world-class wine in a unique style. I know others
?? would offer US or Australia as examples, but to my tastes
?? they offer fewer expressions of styles (especially in
?? whites) than France.
??

Joe, that must be one Lulu of a hangover to last until today!
(Unless, the post is a forgery.)

James Silverton.

No forgery--just payback time for inflicting Maurice Chevalier on
us-Actually I was chanalling Karl Rove.............
"James Silverton" not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.net wrote in message
. ..
Joe wrote on Mon, 2 Jan 2006 11:00:39 -0500:

JBR 2. Getting the US stuck in Indo-China--when we kicked the
JBR Japanese out in 1945, we let the French back in--instead
JBR of granting independence---How well did that work?

JBR 3.. Development of a nuclear arsenal--and selling to such
JBR stable governments as North Korea, Pakistan, & Iran.
JBR Osama lives in Pakistan under tacit acceptance by their
JBR government---if we cross the border to get him will it
JBR sparks an overthrow of a friendly regime--do we want to
JBR give the jihads the nukes sold to Pakistan by La Belle
JBR France

JBR 4. Letting the sale of French products like weapons and
JBR the purchase of oil from the more anti-American countries
JBR lead to denunciation of Israel and/or Zionism and the
JBR virtual carte blanche to bomb synagogues. Yes I know the
JBR Rothschild are powerful but all they get is weak apologies
JBR & Lapin gets stronger

JBR 5. (You thought I'd mention DeGaulle-nah) Getting the US
JBR & Brits involved in the first World War over spheres of
JBR influence. If they kept their cool in 1914 our boys never
JBR would have gone "Over There" ++++ as a bonus we got a
JBR policy of financial retribution that destabilized Germany
JBR leading to the rise of the Nazi's thanks to the other
JBR Allies outmaneuvering Woodrow Wilson at Versailles.

JBR The USA was helped by Lafayette in the late 1700's--we've
JBR been paying that ungrateful country(see DeGaulle, Charles)
JBR with our soldiers blood ever since. Oh yeah thanks for the
JBR Statute of Liberty, who paid to put it up?--those cowboy
JBR US citizens the French mock. The French kept their
JBR resources so they could plunder their colonies and afford
JBR public lynchings like the Dreyfuss affair.

JBR So as far as I'm concerned they can can take their Galois
JBR smokes & oeufs and shove it. I love Bordeaux & the Rhone
JBR and the better reasonably priced Burgs and drink them. I
JBR would not boycott them--boycotting is not an American
JBR value but is a tradition our les Amis, Le Belle France.

JBR So what if they sneer at our tourists while they bank our
JBR dollars. Yes they make the world best wine and charge
JBR dearly for it while they slip some Moroccan plonk into
JBR Burgundy bottles

JBR "DaleW" wrote in message
JBR
oups.com...
?? "Who first come across botrytis? Was it not a German? "
??
?? Er, I think it was a Hungarian from Tokaji.
??
?? "Somehow the
?? whole world got the impression that the "best" wines come
?? only from France, paying through their nose for "top"
?? Bordeauxs and Burgundies. In reality, wines from Spain,
?? Italy, Germany etc are as good in quality and cost
?? a lot less."
??
?? Well, using botrytized wines as an example doesn't really
?? prove your point- as a class TBAs are the most expensive
?? wines in the world. Only Yquem even comes close to the
?? release prices of most top German TBAs.
??
?? " In a recent blind tasting in France, French judges were
?? astonished when they realized the top wine voted was
?? American. "
??
?? Recent, or 1976?
??
?? While I am an admitted Francophile, I certainly appreciate
?? the wines of many countries, and prize the differences.
?? One strength that France does have, rivaled only by maybe
?? Italy, is the large variance in styles that are offered at
?? "world-class" quality levels. The great thing about France
?? to me is not Petrus or DRC, but that almost every region
?? offers a world-class wine in a unique style. I know others
?? would offer US or Australia as examples, but to my tastes
?? they offer fewer expressions of styles (especially in
?? whites) than France.
??

Joe, that must be one Lulu of a hangover to last until today!
(Unless, the post is a forgery.)

James Silverton.

Is there a gremlin for Tongue in Cheek? Maybe we should have an alt.irony.
group.

"Mike Tommasi" wrote in message
...
James Silverton wrote:

Joe, that must be one Lulu of a hangover to last until today! (Unless,
the post is a forgery.)

Does not read like JBR to me, I thought the same thing.


--
Mike Tommasi - Six Fours, France
email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail

Can you suggest a lite quaff to have with crow?
"Mike Tommasi" wrote in message
...
Seemed a little heavy for tongue in cheek...

Joe "Beppe"Rosenberg wrote:
Is there a gremlin for Tongue in Cheek? Maybe we should have an
alt.irony.
group.

"Mike Tommasi" wrote in message
...

James Silverton wrote:

Joe, that must be one Lulu of a hangover to last until today! (Unless,
the post is a forgery.)

Does not read like JBR to me, I thought the same thing.


--
Mike Tommasi - Six Fours, France
email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail





--
Mike Tommasi - Six Fours, France
email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail

"Joe "Beppe"Rosenberg" skrev i melding
. ..
Can you suggest a lite quaff to have with crow?

Longwood Crow Eater Shiraz

Aussie Shiraz from tiny parcels of Mclaren vale fruit
"Truly cracking" is how senior buyer Thomas Woolrych describes this
gorgeously intense 100% Shiraz, adding that it recently scored top marks in
a buyers' tasting. Praise enough one would think but here's what Parker has
to say "a heady effort revealing rich black cherry and cassis notes, sweet
tannin, full-bodied and a long, lusty finish" and gave it 89 points.

:-) Anders

"Joe 'Beppe' Rosenberg" really let the dogs out when expounding.......

Five things I do not like about the French or what they call
their government...

1, Collaboration with Nazi's in World War 2

Hell's teeth, Joe. You conveniently forget that there were Americans who
collaborated with the Nazis.


2. Getting the US stuck in Indo-China

It was not the French who declared that the USA should become "The policeman
of the world".

Sixty years after WW2 you guys are still making stupid decisions on the name
of god and truth and right (and in the pursuit of the mighty $$$) - and
making an absolute meal of it. Wanna blame someone - take a long look in the
mirror!


3.. Development of a nuclear arsenal.

Oh, now this is the pot calling the kettle black! Take away the armaments
industry and the US economy is f#%&*d.


4. Letting the sale of clipped products like weapons and the purchase
of oil

Why is this different to the sale of American weapons and the US stealing
Iraqi oil?



5. Getting the US & Brits involved in the first World War....


I know exactly why the UK got involved and it had little to do with France.
The US sat on the fence for 3/4 of the war entirely missing the 'fun' which
was Gallipoli and the Somme among other little tiffs.

Joe, in our recent visit to France, more than once I stood in a village
square beside a memorial to those who lost their lives in WW1. I admit that
I choked back tears when I realised that in some incidences 50% of a towns
young men has perished.

With the greatest of respect Joe, tongue in cheek or not, it is about time
you got off your backside in Baltimore and crossed the Atlantic for a first
hand look-see - and leave those 'stars'n'strips' tinted spectacle behind.

You may find, like we did, that French hospitality was first class, and the
Frenchman-in-the-street could not do enough to assist us foreigners.

Hopefully, the nett effect of such personal research may be that you never
write such crap again.

Regards,

st.helier

Screw the crow--I'll take a lamb chop instead, I was drinking Austrailian
Shiraz 20 years ago. A ozian cork-dork came to Baltimore with wife who was
teaching in an exchange program bring many gems Grange, Old Leasinghams, on
& on which he served on many occasions. About 90% of Oz wines in MD were
Kendall-Jackson wannabees. "Dry" whites with some RS. Very Good stickies
and decent reds. By the time he left 12 months later, the wife & a few
bottles stayed. The winesales guys at these tastings told their bosses that
Oz was the next big thing, which moved things a long. My friend was going
to find Winemayven some wines to broker but I lost my big money making line
& I had to refocus on Italy.

Thank you Anders
"Anders Tørneskog" wrote in message
...

"Joe "Beppe"Rosenberg" skrev i melding
. ..
Can you suggest a lite quaff to have with crow?

Longwood Crow Eater Shiraz

Aussie Shiraz from tiny parcels of Mclaren vale fruit
"Truly cracking" is how senior buyer Thomas Woolrych describes this
gorgeously intense 100% Shiraz, adding that it recently scored top marks
in
a buyers' tasting. Praise enough one would think but here's what Parker
has
to say "a heady effort revealing rich black cherry and cassis notes, sweet
tannin, full-bodied and a long, lusty finish" and gave it 89 points.

:-) Anders

Hey Hellier...thats the way it is in our history books....

To bad your schools don't teach the truth :-)




"st.helier" wrote in message
...
"Joe 'Beppe' Rosenberg" really let the dogs out when expounding.......

Five things I do not like about the French or what they call
their government...

1, Collaboration with Nazi's in World War 2

Hell's teeth, Joe. You conveniently forget that there were Americans who
collaborated with the Nazis.


2. Getting the US stuck in Indo-China

It was not the French who declared that the USA should become "The
policeman of the world".

Sixty years after WW2 you guys are still making stupid decisions on the
name of god and truth and right (and in the pursuit of the mighty $$$) -
and making an absolute meal of it. Wanna blame someone - take a long look
in the mirror!


3.. Development of a nuclear arsenal.

Oh, now this is the pot calling the kettle black! Take away the armaments
industry and the US economy is f#%&*d.


4. Letting the sale of clipped products like weapons and the purchase
of oil

Why is this different to the sale of American weapons and the US stealing
Iraqi oil?



5. Getting the US & Brits involved in the first World War....


I know exactly why the UK got involved and it had little to do with
France.
The US sat on the fence for 3/4 of the war entirely missing the 'fun'
which was Gallipoli and the Somme among other little tiffs.

Joe, in our recent visit to France, more than once I stood in a village
square beside a memorial to those who lost their lives in WW1. I admit
that I choked back tears when I realised that in some incidences 50% of a
towns young men has perished.

With the greatest of respect Joe, tongue in cheek or not, it is about time
you got off your backside in Baltimore and crossed the Atlantic for a
first hand look-see - and leave those 'stars'n'strips' tinted spectacle
behind.

You may find, like we did, that French hospitality was first class, and
the Frenchman-in-the-street could not do enough to assist us foreigners.

Hopefully, the nett effect of such personal research may be that you never
write such crap again.

Regards,

st.helier

"Richard Neidich" wrote ....

Hey Hellier...thats the way it is in our history books....



Dick,

I've told you before - you really must stop reading comic books!!!!!!!!!!!

hny

st.helier

"st.helier" wrote:

"Joe 'Beppe' Rosenberg" really let the dogs out when
expounding...

[...]

Hopefully, the nett effect of such personal research may be that
you never write such crap again.

clapclapclap - *very* well roared, lion!

M.

That is blasphemy....:-)


"st.helier" wrote in message
...
"Richard Neidich" wrote ....

Hey Hellier...thats the way it is in our history books....



Dick,

I've told you before - you really must stop reading comic books!!!!!!!!!!!

hny

st.helier