This has nothing to do with wine, wine storage, books, movies, comic-books.
Years of neglect, corruption and false bonhomie, have shown our politicians
of all stripes and position to be either inept or oblivious. Its like Mock J
singing Salt of The Earth over and over.

I sent this my to local paper . Pardon the interruption.


Disasters:
Nature's and Man Made


Watching on Television and the Newspapers, the effects of Hurricane K, I am
struck with the ferocity of Nature's phenomena especially juxtaposed against
a civilization that can not predict and thus control outcomes. We can
however do our best in cleaning up the mess and seeing to it our
infrastructures can deal with the consequences. To put in bluntly-are we
ready for a disaster? Are our buildings roads, dams, levees, maintained to
as to prevent not contribute to loss? Are our rescue resources; human,
transportation, lodging ready to act on Day One?

In a war against terror, a war for the hearts and minds of the Islamic
World, we preach order and democracy, yet the images of the last days has
been pictures of people without the means of escape, people of colour who've
been left to fend for themselves; prey for hunger, thirst and physical
danger. Where is the respect for our own citizens when we allow looting and
armed theft to go on under the TV cameras but not law enforcement's. In a
day or so we'll have all the troops, trucks, food and water the survivors
will need, but the images of people angry, frustrated and abandoned will
last longer. We denounced the looting of Baghdad a few years ago, but that
is what most of the world remembers from our invasion of Iraq; how long will
the images from Hurricane Katrina be replayed in the minds of friends, foes
and those we want to respect us?

Joseph B. Rosenberg

Good thought.

Unfortunately had our national guard been here at Home we would have had the
personnel there to enforce law/order. This only shows us how unprepared we
are due to the war effort. Because the national guard is now the
international guard we have little support on the home front and that scares
me.

Sorry to my off topic response.



"Joseph B. Rosenberg" wrote in message
...
This has nothing to do with wine, wine storage, books, movies,
comic-books.
Years of neglect, corruption and false bonhomie, have shown our
politicians
of all stripes and position to be either inept or oblivious. Its like Mock
J
singing Salt of The Earth over and over.

I sent this my to local paper . Pardon the interruption.


Disasters:
Nature's and Man Made


Watching on Television and the Newspapers, the effects of Hurricane K, I
am
struck with the ferocity of Nature's phenomena especially juxtaposed
against
a civilization that can not predict and thus control outcomes. We can
however do our best in cleaning up the mess and seeing to it our
infrastructures can deal with the consequences. To put in bluntly-are we
ready for a disaster? Are our buildings roads, dams, levees, maintained to
as to prevent not contribute to loss? Are our rescue resources; human,
transportation, lodging ready to act on Day One?

In a war against terror, a war for the hearts and minds of the Islamic
World, we preach order and democracy, yet the images of the last days has
been pictures of people without the means of escape, people of colour
who've
been left to fend for themselves; prey for hunger, thirst and physical
danger. Where is the respect for our own citizens when we allow looting
and
armed theft to go on under the TV cameras but not law enforcement's. In a
day or so we'll have all the troops, trucks, food and water the survivors
will need, but the images of people angry, frustrated and abandoned will
last longer. We denounced the looting of Baghdad a few years ago, but
that
is what most of the world remembers from our invasion of Iraq; how long
will
the images from Hurricane Katrina be replayed in the minds of friends,
foes
and those we want to respect us?

Joseph B. Rosenberg

In article , says...

This has nothing to do with wine, wine storage, books, movies, comic-books.
Years of neglect, corruption and false bonhomie, have shown our politicians
of all stripes and position to be either inept or oblivious. Its like Mock J
singing Salt of The Earth over and over.

I sent this my to local paper . Pardon the interruption.


Disasters:
Nature's and Man Made


Watching on Television and the Newspapers, the effects of Hurricane K, I am
struck with the ferocity of Nature's phenomena especially juxtaposed against
a civilization that can not predict and thus control outcomes. We can
however do our best in cleaning up the mess and seeing to it our
infrastructures can deal with the consequences. To put in bluntly-are we
ready for a disaster? Are our buildings roads, dams, levees, maintained to
as to prevent not contribute to loss? Are our rescue resources; human,
transportation, lodging ready to act on Day One?

In a war against terror, a war for the hearts and minds of the Islamic
World, we preach order and democracy, yet the images of the last days has
been pictures of people without the means of escape, people of colour who've
been left to fend for themselves; prey for hunger, thirst and physical
danger. Where is the respect for our own citizens when we allow looting and
armed theft to go on under the TV cameras but not law enforcement's. In a
day or so we'll have all the troops, trucks, food and water the survivors
will need, but the images of people angry, frustrated and abandoned will
last longer. We denounced the looting of Baghdad a few years ago, but that
is what most of the world remembers from our invasion of Iraq; how long will
the images from Hurricane Katrina be replayed in the minds of friends, foes
and those we want to respect us?

Joseph B. Rosenberg

Dear Beppe,

I did not SNIP anything, as I agree with your words, wholeheartedly. Also, as
one with a very "vested" interest in that area of the world, I am deeply
saddened. I've hung on every word, and every image on FOX, CNN & the US
national news. I have placed "blame" many times over. In the first few hours
of the second disaster, and that is what New Orleans is, my family had
formulated several plans for the intervention, and relief, and now, four days
later, some are being implemented. I am very sad at the lapse of time, but
then buracracy runs slowly.

Thank you for your perspective on the events. I appreciate that others care,
even if they do not have family, or friends in harm's way.

The good note is that all of our family has been accounted for, and now we are
working to connect with our friends affected by these two disasters.

Also, Phoenix hospitals are rallying to offer any support necessary to the
stricken areas in MS, AL and LA.

Again, thank you for your thoughts,
Hunt

In article . net,
says...

Good thought.

Unfortunately had our national guard been here at Home we would have had the
personnel there to enforce law/order. This only shows us how unprepared we
are due to the war effort. Because the national guard is now the
international guard we have little support on the home front and that scares
me.

Sorry to my off topic response.

Richard,

One note, the call from LA for national support was actually three days in
coming. The guard units around the country have been mobilized, and have begun
arriving in two days. Yes, the timing was all wrong, but because the Guard
cannot act on its own, much time was lost, basically due to the lack of a
disaster plan by the government of Louisiana.

A sad note indeed, and thank you very much for your concern,
Hunt

Joseph B. Rosenberg wrote:
This has nothing to do with wine, wine storage, books, movies, comic-books.
Years of neglect, corruption and false bonhomie, have shown our politicians
of all stripes and position to be either inept or oblivious. Its like Mock J
singing Salt of The Earth over and over.

I sent this my to local paper . Pardon the interruption.


Disasters:
Nature's and Man Made


Watching on Television and the Newspapers, the effects of Hurricane K, I am
struck with the ferocity of Nature's phenomena especially juxtaposed against
a civilization that can not predict and thus control outcomes. We can
however do our best in cleaning up the mess and seeing to it our
infrastructures can deal with the consequences. To put in bluntly-are we
ready for a disaster? Are our buildings roads, dams, levees, maintained to
as to prevent not contribute to loss? Are our rescue resources; human,
transportation, lodging ready to act on Day One?

In a war against terror, a war for the hearts and minds of the Islamic
World, we preach order and democracy, yet the images of the last days has
been pictures of people without the means of escape, people of colour who've
been left to fend for themselves; prey for hunger, thirst and physical
danger. Where is the respect for our own citizens when we allow looting and
armed theft to go on under the TV cameras but not law enforcement's. In a
day or so we'll have all the troops, trucks, food and water the survivors
will need, but the images of people angry, frustrated and abandoned will
last longer. We denounced the looting of Baghdad a few years ago, but that
is what most of the world remembers from our invasion of Iraq; how long will
the images from Hurricane Katrina be replayed in the minds of friends, foes
and those we want to respect us?

Joseph B. Rosenberg


Amen!
D

"Richard Neidich" wrote

Unfortunately had our national guard been here at Home we would have had
the personnel there to enforce law/order. This only shows us how
unprepared we are due to the war effort.
Because the national guard is now the international guard we have little
support on the home front and that scares me.

Dick, I would be more scared that I lived in a country which needed armed
protection in the first place.

You see, if this disaster occurred in most other civilised countries in this
world, armed criminals would not be taking pot-shots at their fellow man
during their darkest hours.

There is something radically rotten with the core of US society, when this
sort of thing happens.

Tragically, all too many cannot smell it.

I applaud your words Joe Rosenberg - you country needs more like you!

--

st.helier

(And before any red-blooded Americans consider coming down here and kicking
the snot out of this overtly direct kiwi, consider this. Notwithstanding the
fact that for 20 years, your government has bullied us in a futile attempt
to abandon our nuclear free policy; NZers have already pledged $2 for every
man, woman and child in our tiny backwater in aid for your first world
country with a third world problem!)

On 3 Sep 2005 02:33:48 GMT, (Hunt) said:

] The good note is that all of our family has been accounted for, and now we are
] working to connect with our friends affected by these two disasters.

That at least is some very good news. Best wishes.

-E
--
Emery Davis
You can reply to
by removing the well known companies

With out a doubt there is something wrong. Its called poverty. The
majority of the people that seem to stay behind in New Orleans were black,
impoverished people, likely undereducated, that did not have the means to
leave. It is sad.

I agree that it would be a shame for the need to armed persons but the
reality is the National Guard is usually called out for these types of
issues. My guess is had their been 15000 in the streets the evacuation
would have been more complete in advance of the hurricane. Secondly had they
been there right afterwars we would not have had the civil unrest.

I am very saddened by the loss of so many lives, property, jobs. It will
take a long time for this city to recover and the people to get their lives
back in order.



"st.helier" wrote in message
...
"Richard Neidich" wrote

Unfortunately had our national guard been here at Home we would have had
the personnel there to enforce law/order. This only shows us how
unprepared we are due to the war effort.
Because the national guard is now the international guard we have little
support on the home front and that scares me.

Dick, I would be more scared that I lived in a country which needed armed
protection in the first place.

You see, if this disaster occurred in most other civilised countries in
this world, armed criminals would not be taking pot-shots at their fellow
man during their darkest hours.

There is something radically rotten with the core of US society, when this
sort of thing happens.

Tragically, all too many cannot smell it.

I applaud your words Joe Rosenberg - you country needs more like you!

--

st.helier

(And before any red-blooded Americans consider coming down here and
kicking the snot out of this overtly direct kiwi, consider this.
Notwithstanding the fact that for 20 years, your government has bullied us
in a futile attempt to abandon our nuclear free policy; NZers have already
pledged $2 for every man, woman and child in our tiny backwater in aid for
your first world country with a third world problem!)

st.helier wrote:
"Richard Neidich" wrote

Unfortunately had our national guard been here at Home we would have had
the personnel there to enforce law/order. This only shows us how
unprepared we are due to the war effort.
Because the national guard is now the international guard we have little
support on the home front and that scares me.


Dick, I would be more scared that I lived in a country which needed armed
protection in the first place.

You see, if this disaster occurred in most other civilised countries in this
world, armed criminals would not be taking pot-shots at their fellow man
during their darkest hours.

There is something radically rotten with the core of US society, when this
sort of thing happens.

Tragically, all too many cannot smell it.

I applaud your words Joe Rosenberg - you country needs more like you!

--

st.helier

(And before any red-blooded Americans consider coming down here and kicking
the snot out of this overtly direct kiwi, consider this. Notwithstanding the
fact that for 20 years, your government has bullied us in a futile attempt
to abandon our nuclear free policy; NZers have already pledged $2 for every
man, woman and child in our tiny backwater in aid for your first world
country with a third world problem!)



I believe that it is just a little too short sighted and arrogant to
think that the actions of a few ignorant individuals constitutes the
"core" of ANY society.

It's strikingly funny how every time something bad happens to the US
people blame the country, the people, the government, whatever. If the
same or a similar situation happens somewhere else in the world it is
simply a "natural disaster."

Far too often those that know too little speak too often.

Mike, I do think that there were several key issues here with the blame game
that are factors in all this:

1) Go to factcheck.org and you will find starting in 2001 the budget was
cut dramatically on the levee project. In fact over a 80% cut from
2001-2005. They knew the levees would breach.

2) Shortage of national guard to aid security

3) Shortage of leadership local, state and fed.

4) To much bureaucracy red tape with Local, state, fed.

5) WE THE PEOPLE elect officials that are NOT qualified. We need to pay
more attention at local levels.

We are all guilty here.

What burns me is that with all the above points if this was anywhere else in
the world we would have been there in 1-2 days with assistance. But in this
country we cannot respond as fast.

Snip

Mike Said:

"I believe that it is just a little too short sighted and arrogant to think
that the actions of a few ignorant individuals constitutes the "core" of ANY
society.

It's strikingly funny how every time something bad happens to the US people
blame the country, the people, the government, whatever. If the same or a
similar situation happens somewhere else in the world it is simply a
"natural disaster."

Far too often those that know too little speak too often."

"Mike" wrote in message

I believe that it is just a little too short sighted and arrogant to think
that the actions of a few ignorant individuals constitutes the "core" of
ANY society.

It's strikingly funny how every time something bad happens to the US
people blame the country, the people, the government, whatever. If the
same or a similar situation happens somewhere
else in the world it is simply a "natural disaster."

Mike, Perhaps I should let sleeping dogs lie, but I simply cannot help
myself, perhaps it is the short-sightedness and arrogance (I plead guilty to
both charges - your honour!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

A few ignorant individuals? Is that all? We are talking about armed
criminals shooting at police, paramedics and their fellow citizens here,
aren't we?

And, no, it is definitely *not* funny in any way - and please don't say that
you actually condone this sort of action, because it certainly reads as
though you are defending this as "the American way" of dealing with a
natural disaster.

Hey - elsewhere in the world, natural disasters occur, and people "pull
together" - hell's teeth man, a civil war in Aceh was put aside in the name
of humanity, whilst both sides (and the rest of the world) rushed to the aid
of the Tsunami disaster.

OK - no doubt there were lootings, but, not even the Tamil Tigers declared
war on their own Sri Lankan enemies during their hour of need.

Of course, Katrina *was* a disaster of monumental proportions - but Mike,
please understand that this is a very small world.

Joe Beppe can pass wind in Baltimore, and we will know about it here in New
Zealand in minutes.

Maybe you would like to hush up this sort of abhorrent behaviour -
particularly as the US stands as this paragon of democratic virtue (in its
own eyes anyhow).

You say....


Far too often those that know too little speak too often.


Well, where I come from, free speech is *true* freedom - and we treasure the
right to speak out.

You may not like it, but your beloved US *does* have double standards when
it comes to free trade, and your government *does* bully smaller allies like
New Zealand, just because we, as a nation choose to say "no" to nuclear
weapons and power.

I choose to exercise my right to free speech, because if I do not, and bow
to those who would rather this whole thing was *not* aired, then, one day,
we just may loose that right - and it won't be our enemies which extinguish
that right - it will be our (so called) friends.

--

st.helier

The real issue here is poverty and lack of education.

Criminal element is found in all communities. The poor and uneducated
really own nothing. New Orleans had 25% below the poverty line.

It was a shame but that was only a few in reality.

If there were 250000 left to evacuate make 100 with guns shooting. Very
small % but bad news nonetheless.

"st.helier" wrote in message
...
"Mike" wrote in message

I believe that it is just a little too short sighted and arrogant to
think that the actions of a few ignorant individuals constitutes the
"core" of ANY society.

It's strikingly funny how every time something bad happens to the US
people blame the country, the people, the government, whatever. If the
same or a similar situation happens somewhere
else in the world it is simply a "natural disaster."

Mike, Perhaps I should let sleeping dogs lie, but I simply cannot help
myself, perhaps it is the short-sightedness and arrogance (I plead guilty
to both charges - your honour!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

A few ignorant individuals? Is that all? We are talking about armed
criminals shooting at police, paramedics and their fellow citizens here,
aren't we?

And, no, it is definitely *not* funny in any way - and please don't say
that you actually condone this sort of action, because it certainly reads
as though you are defending this as "the American way" of dealing with a
natural disaster.

Hey - elsewhere in the world, natural disasters occur, and people "pull
together" - hell's teeth man, a civil war in Aceh was put aside in the
name of humanity, whilst both sides (and the rest of the world) rushed to
the aid of the Tsunami disaster.

OK - no doubt there were lootings, but, not even the Tamil Tigers declared
war on their own Sri Lankan enemies during their hour of need.

Of course, Katrina *was* a disaster of monumental proportions - but Mike,
please understand that this is a very small world.

Joe Beppe can pass wind in Baltimore, and we will know about it here in
New Zealand in minutes.

Maybe you would like to hush up this sort of abhorrent behaviour -
particularly as the US stands as this paragon of democratic virtue (in its
own eyes anyhow).

You say....


Far too often those that know too little speak too often.


Well, where I come from, free speech is *true* freedom - and we treasure
the right to speak out.

You may not like it, but your beloved US *does* have double standards when
it comes to free trade, and your government *does* bully smaller allies
like New Zealand, just because we, as a nation choose to say "no" to
nuclear weapons and power.

I choose to exercise my right to free speech, because if I do not, and bow
to those who would rather this whole thing was *not* aired, then, one day,
we just may loose that right - and it won't be our enemies which
extinguish that right - it will be our (so called) friends.

--

st.helier

Salut/Hi Richard Neidich,

le/on Mon, 12 Sep 2005 11:40:41 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

The real issue here is poverty and lack of education.

No Dick, the real issue here is that this whole thread is entirely off
topic.


--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

True you are.

Quick Question...if the entire thread says in Subject line "Way off Topic"
is that allowed?" "Should it be?"

"Ian Hoare" wrote in message
...
Salut/Hi Richard Neidich,

le/on Mon, 12 Sep 2005 11:40:41 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

The real issue here is poverty and lack of education.

No Dick, the real issue here is that this whole thread is entirely off
topic.


--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

A few ignorant individuals? Is that all? We are talking about armed
criminals shooting at police, paramedics and their fellow citizens here,
aren't we?

Yes, it was a _few_ individuals and that's exactly who you're talking
about... armed _criminals_, not regular, law abiding citizens. And they were
an _infinitesimal_ minority of the people who were trapped in New Orleans.
Unfortunately, our media concentrated on that aspect of this monumental
tragedy rather than other, less sensational stories like neighbors helping
neighbors... and complete strangers as well, in an _any_ way they could. For
a look at what's really happening, directly from where it's happening, I
might suggest you check out this site:

http://www.gulfcoastnews.com/GCNKatrina2b.htm

and I quote:

"There have been mistakes and trouble getting help both to us and to New
Orleans. But the scale of the disaster is not something that is easy to
appreciate until you see it. It is frankly amazing that so much help is
already on the ground and everyone here knows that. We all are beginning to
stand back up after Katrina's blow and we will move forward.
It is also clear that people are amazingly resilient. Acts of kindness and
generosity are everywhere and not just here but from folks far away, who
have sent supplies and help in time and labor. It is America and the
American Way at its finest and most noble....More later."


To suggest that the _criminals_ (who simple did what criminals always do)
are somehow representative of the "core" of American society in this tragic
situation is both ignorant and xenophobic.


And, no, it is definitely *not* funny in any way - and please don't say
that
you actually condone this sort of action, because it certainly reads as
though you are defending this as "the American way" of dealing with a
natural disaster.

I don't believe you are truly familiar with just how we Americans are
_really_ dealing with this disaster... in fact, I _know_ you're not.

Hey - elsewhere in the world, natural disasters occur, and people "pull
together" - hell's teeth man, a civil war in Aceh was put aside in the
name
of humanity, whilst both sides (and the rest of the world) rushed to the
aid
of the Tsunami disaster.

Again, you don't seem to understand what's really happening. You don't hear
about all the doctors, firemen, EMT's, ect. who are volunteering from all
over our country and going down there to help. You don't hear about the
displaced families being taken in by complete strangers in states thousands
of miles away. You don't hear about neighbors banding together to help each
other survive in the most primitive conditions imaginable.

But feel free to go ahead and pass judgment on an entire country based on
the actions of less that 500 of it's residents. After all, you have the
freedom to be as ignorant as you want to be.

OK - no doubt there were lootings, but, not even the Tamil Tigers declared
war on their own Sri Lankan enemies during their hour of need.

Of course, Katrina *was* a disaster of monumental proportions - but Mike,
please understand that this is a very small world.

You might want to keep in mind that we are a very large country as well (the
area affected is larger than Great Britain) so by sheer size and population,
we're going to have more hard core criminals who are going to do what they
_always_ do... commit crimes. By the same token, our media did what they
_always_ do, exploit the sensational, lurid story for ratings. That concept
was pioneered here in the U.S by an Aussie bloke I believe... Rupert
Murdoch, owner of Fox network.

Maybe you would like to hush up this sort of abhorrent behavior -
particularly as the US stands as this paragon of democratic virtue (in its
own eyes anyhow).

We didn't hush it up, the very worst of our society was shown on newsclip
after newsclip for all the world to see. And as difficult as this may be for
you to believe, we don't all think the U.S is the paragon of democratic
virtue. We were a deeply divided nation before this happened and under our
current government, we'll remain that way. But even a divided as we are now,
the _vast_ majority of us are pulling together to help in ways you could
obviously never understand.

Far too often those that know too little speak too often.


Well, where I come from, free speech is *true* freedom - and we treasure
the
right to speak out.

As do we. Again, you're free to be as ignorant as you want to be.

You may not like it, but your beloved US *does* have double standards when
it comes to free trade, and your government *does* bully smaller allies
like
New Zealand, just because we, as a nation choose to say "no" to nuclear
weapons and power.

Welcome to the real world. Guess what, we're not perfect. Neither are New
Zealanders, the French, the Chinese or any other nationality for that
matter.

I choose to exercise my right to free speech, because if I do not, and bow
to those who would rather this whole thing was *not* aired, then, one day,
we just may loose that right - and it won't be our enemies which
extinguish
that right - it will be our (so called) friends.

On Usenet, I always try to find some point to agree on, even with those who
I disagree with... or find disagreeable. Your above quote is a good place to
end my attempt to cure your ignorance.

Somehow, I doubt I'll succeed.