As something fun to do, my friends and I have discussed pooling our
money on occasion to obtain and drink something like a Bordeaux first
growth, a Burgundy grand cru, a Penfolds Grange, 1963 or 1977 Vintage
Port, etc. We all love wine, but currently our financial situations do
not warrant purchasing these things on our own really, or at least,
very infrequently. $50 seems to be the upper limit for most of us, and
I've been known to splurge around in the $100 range on occasion, but
for wines meant to be shared, why not pool our resources for a truly
great bottle?

In order to turn such tasting events into a more frequent thing, we'd
like to start going in on them together, and then cooking a nice meal
to go with it. Recent discussions on what to buy first have centered
on the fact that hardly any $200 bottles are enjoyable upon release.
Of course, we can get older bottles through various channels, but that
can be difficult up here in Maine. The few stores in Portland (Maine)
that stock great wines from great, historic vintages keep them at warm,
retail storage for months on end.

If you had to select a bottle in this range to drink more or less
immediately, what would you choose? Or is finding a recent vintage
ready to drink not worth the effort? Should we just go straight to the
"used" market, so to speak, and search out properly aged bottles?

In that realm, what are some suggestions for circa $200 bottles to
drink? Note: we're pretty big Bordeaux/Barolo/Super Tuscan type
drinkers. We'd all also love to try Penfolds Grange sometime.

Thanks in advance,
- Chris

One word:

Gaja.


Chris Sprague wrote:
As something fun to do, my friends and I have discussed pooling our
money on occasion to obtain and drink something like a Bordeaux first
growth, a Burgundy grand cru, a Penfolds Grange, 1963 or 1977 Vintage
Port, etc. We all love wine, but currently our financial situations
do
not warrant purchasing these things on our own really, or at least,
very infrequently. $50 seems to be the upper limit for most of us,
and
I've been known to splurge around in the $100 range on occasion, but
for wines meant to be shared, why not pool our resources for a truly
great bottle?

In order to turn such tasting events into a more frequent thing, we'd
like to start going in on them together, and then cooking a nice meal
to go with it. Recent discussions on what to buy first have centered
on the fact that hardly any $200 bottles are enjoyable upon release.
Of course, we can get older bottles through various channels, but
that
can be difficult up here in Maine. The few stores in Portland
(Maine)
that stock great wines from great, historic vintages keep them at
warm,
retail storage for months on end.

If you had to select a bottle in this range to drink more or less
immediately, what would you choose? Or is finding a recent vintage
ready to drink not worth the effort? Should we just go straight to
the
"used" market, so to speak, and search out properly aged bottles?

In that realm, what are some suggestions for circa $200 bottles to
drink? Note: we're pretty big Bordeaux/Barolo/Super Tuscan type
drinkers. We'd all also love to try Penfolds Grange sometime.

Thanks in advance,
- Chris

You should be able to find a bottle of 1996 Grange for $200 and it's
reaching it's optimal drinking window provided that it was properly
stored.

Gaja indeed---talk about successful marketing. Gaja & Bruno Ceretto in
Piemonte and the Marchese della Incisa (Sassacaia) and Antinori have done
more to raise the prices of the best Italian wines then anyone, even Robert
Parker. When I first met Gaja in 1982 he was represented by a small
importer, Gabriella Cantoni who introduced his wines in most markets, he
told me then he thought if Bordeaux and Burgundy could command top dollar in
the American market, why should the best of Italy. At the time only Biondi
Santi approached the $100 mark. By the time I returned in 1985, Gaja had
already created his cru's and moved beyond Gabriella for distribution and
Bruno Ceretto told me that his 1982 Bricco Rocche Bricco Roche would retail
for $100 in the US. This is when Sassicaia was $70. They transformed the
pricing of Italian Wine and when Mark DeGrazia had his clients create great
Vino di Tavolas (aka Super-Tavola) like Clerico Arte and Il Palazzino Grosso
Sanese in barrique a whole new market exploded.

In 1985 Gaja squared off against the late Luigi Veronelli about his bottling
of Cabernet Sauvignon and chardonnay at an intimate dinner for 100 catered
by Gualitero Marchese at Vin Italy. Many of the producers there who sided
with Veronelli later produced barrique wine and even chardonnays!

On one hand I abhor paying $200 for a bottle of Gaja's good stuff, but
salute him for evening the international playing field.

wrote in message
oups.com...
One word:

Gaja.


Chris Sprague wrote:
As something fun to do, my friends and I have discussed pooling our
money on occasion to obtain and drink something like a Bordeaux first
growth, a Burgundy grand cru, a Penfolds Grange, 1963 or 1977 Vintage
Port, etc. We all love wine, but currently our financial situations
do
not warrant purchasing these things on our own really, or at least,
very infrequently. $50 seems to be the upper limit for most of us,
and
I've been known to splurge around in the $100 range on occasion, but
for wines meant to be shared, why not pool our resources for a truly
great bottle?

In order to turn such tasting events into a more frequent thing, we'd
like to start going in on them together, and then cooking a nice meal
to go with it. Recent discussions on what to buy first have centered
on the fact that hardly any $200 bottles are enjoyable upon release.
Of course, we can get older bottles through various channels, but
that
can be difficult up here in Maine. The few stores in Portland
(Maine)
that stock great wines from great, historic vintages keep them at
warm,
retail storage for months on end.

If you had to select a bottle in this range to drink more or less
immediately, what would you choose? Or is finding a recent vintage
ready to drink not worth the effort? Should we just go straight to
the
"used" market, so to speak, and search out properly aged bottles?

In that realm, what are some suggestions for circa $200 bottles to
drink? Note: we're pretty big Bordeaux/Barolo/Super Tuscan type
drinkers. We'd all also love to try Penfolds Grange sometime.

Thanks in advance,
- Chris

On 20 May 2005 06:25:47 -0700, "Chris Sprague"
wrote:

As something fun to do, my friends and I have discussed pooling our
money on occasion to obtain and drink something like a Bordeaux first
growth, a Burgundy grand cru, a Penfolds Grange, 1963 or 1977 Vintage
Port, etc. We all love wine, but currently our financial situations do
not warrant purchasing these things on our own really, or at least,
very infrequently. $50 seems to be the upper limit for most of us, and
I've been known to splurge around in the $100 range on occasion, but
for wines meant to be shared, why not pool our resources for a truly
great bottle?

In order to turn such tasting events into a more frequent thing, we'd
like to start going in on them together, and then cooking a nice meal
to go with it. Recent discussions on what to buy first have centered
on the fact that hardly any $200 bottles are enjoyable upon release.
Of course, we can get older bottles through various channels, but that
can be difficult up here in Maine. The few stores in Portland (Maine)
that stock great wines from great, historic vintages keep them at warm,
retail storage for months on end.

If you had to select a bottle in this range to drink more or less
immediately, what would you choose? Or is finding a recent vintage
ready to drink not worth the effort? Should we just go straight to the
"used" market, so to speak, and search out properly aged bottles?

In that realm, what are some suggestions for circa $200 bottles to
drink? Note: we're pretty big Bordeaux/Barolo/Super Tuscan type
drinkers. We'd all also love to try Penfolds Grange sometime.

While some have already provided response, ranging from a single,
emphatic word, to a quick tour of the history of the Piemonte, it
sounds to me as though you and your friends are starting a wine club
to broaden your experience, pool your resources and share the
conversation, discussion and impressions of good-to-great wines. If
you weren't 2000 miles away, I'd invite myself to the group.

It seems as though you've listed a number of candidate areas to
explore already. Why not have a "planning meeting" (maybe on the model
of Bill Spohn's "brown bag" gatherings) in which all of the
participants meet around a meal or tasting theme? Everyone bring a
bottle in a $$ range you find acceptable for all of the players. While
enjoying the wines and talking about them, build a list of things
you'd like to try in that +/- $200 range. Decide how often you want to
gather for these events (monthly?) and then build a schedule for the
year.

Make decisions on food or accompaniment responsibilities--friendly
restaurant, home-cooking, simple finger-foods or whatever. Who's going
to foot the food bill? Who's going to cook? Is everyone comfortable
with allocation of costs and labor?

Then research and discuss sources for these fine wines you're going to
schedule. Does Maine allow inter-state shipping? Then look to places
like Zachy's or D. Sokolin for online catalogs that are very likely to
hold your dream wines. Maybe it will require a road trip to NYC or
Boston to find a major retailer with the goods.

Have someone do the research on what you'll be expecting from these
special bottles. Maybe the individual who suggests the choice for the
gathering?

I would certainly have a list that contained a 1st growth Bordeaux, a
premier cru Burg, a Grange or similar high-end Oz, at some point a
premium Sauternes, a good vintage Port, a Barolo and/or a Brunello, a
fine bubbly (I'd lobby for Bollinger--but that's just me,) etc. etc.

That's your assignment--report due next month.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com

Right now at Gentile's wines here in Columbus there is a bottle of Gaja
Barbaresco (can't remember the vintage) for $199.99.

1565 King Avenue
Columbus, Ohio, 43213
United States
phone: (614) 486-3406

Ask for Roger or Stew

Chris Sprague wrote:
1) Maine prohibits interstate shipping, but that doesn't mean that
you
can't get wine shipped here. I've ordered from some of the bigger
online sellers with no problem.

2) I'll be in New York City next weekend. Perhaps I can pick up a
bottle there. What are the better stores?

3) The first time we did this, we had Bollinger. Nice suggestion

4) Your other suggestion of Sauternes is good, too. How long before
that bottle of 1998 Suduiraut in my cellar is ready to drink?

5) Thanks for the help! I think we really want to go with Grange
this
time, so what years are ready to drink that can be had for around
$200?

"Chris Sprague" skrev i melding
oups.com...
In order to turn such tasting events into a more frequent thing, we'd
like to start going in on them together, and then cooking a nice meal
to go with it. Recent discussions on what to buy first have centered
on the fact that hardly any $200 bottles are enjoyable upon release.

If you had to select a bottle in this range to drink more or less
immediately, what would you choose? Or is finding a recent vintage
ready to drink not worth the effort? Should we just go straight to the
"used" market, so to speak, and search out properly aged bottles?

Why not Vega Sicilia Unico? It is released ready to drink at about 10 years
age, so you should be able to get something like 1994 or earlier.
www.wine-searcher should direct you to an available bottle in the US, but
there are probably lower prices to be found elsewhere.
hth
Anders

"Chris Sprague" wrote in message
oups.com...
As something fun to do, my friends and I have discussed pooling our
money on occasion to obtain and drink something like a Bordeaux first
growth, a Burgundy grand cru, a Penfolds Grange, 1963 or 1977 Vintage
Port, etc. We all love wine, but currently our financial situations do
not warrant purchasing these things on our own really, or at least,
very infrequently. $50 seems to be the upper limit for most of us, and
I've been known to splurge around in the $100 range on occasion, but
for wines meant to be shared, why not pool our resources for a truly
great bottle?

In order to turn such tasting events into a more frequent thing, we'd
like to start going in on them together, and then cooking a nice meal
to go with it. Recent discussions on what to buy first have centered
on the fact that hardly any $200 bottles are enjoyable upon release.
Of course, we can get older bottles through various channels, but that
can be difficult up here in Maine. The few stores in Portland (Maine)
that stock great wines from great, historic vintages keep them at warm,
retail storage for months on end.

If you had to select a bottle in this range to drink more or less
immediately, what would you choose? Or is finding a recent vintage
ready to drink not worth the effort? Should we just go straight to the
"used" market, so to speak, and search out properly aged bottles?

In that realm, what are some suggestions for circa $200 bottles to
drink? Note: we're pretty big Bordeaux/Barolo/Super Tuscan type
drinkers. We'd all also love to try Penfolds Grange sometime.

Lots of good questions. You sound like a younger group than most of us
here - not that that's bad. I've been where you are now, but with a
somewhat smaller budget.

I think you should go straight to big California Cabernets. On a par
quality level, you'll get more bang for your buck than from comparable level
French wines. Don't pass up the occasional good deal on a nice Bordeaux
though.

For $50 to $150 you can get some mind bending Napa Cabernets/Bordeaux
blends. Over that range, I'd recommend the usual (in alphabetical order):

Beringer (Private Reserve or Special Selection or ??)
Burgess Vintage Selection
BV Georges de Latour
Cakebread
Caymus Special Selection
Chateau Montelena
Clos du Val
Dunn
Freemark Abbey
Groth
Heitz "Martha's Vineyard"
Joseph Phelps ("Insignia" or "Backus Vineyard")
Louis Martini (try the Cabs, but _buy_ the Moscato Amabile! Oops - never
mind. They won't ship the Moscato. Bummer.)
Mayacamas
Mondavi Reserve
Opus One
Raymond
Ridge Monte Bello
Ritchie Creek
Sawyer
Shafer
Silverado
Silver Oak
Smith Madrone
Stag's Leap Wine Cellars
V Sattui (mail order only)

This is by no means a complete list. Those are just the ones I could
remember, that fall within your price band.

I could have mentioned Aurajo, Diamond Creek, Grace Family, Screaming Eagle
and a few others, but those are out of scope.

BTW, I like your 1963 Port idea. If you can find a bottle of the Quinto do
Noval it'd be a real treat! Also the 1994 Croft - but that's very different
in style. The '63 Quinta is elegant, complex, supple, fully resolved,
utterly gorgeous wine. The '94 Croft is a voluptuous, decadent, 44DD harlot
of a wine that takes no prisoners. Take your pick. ;^D

Tom S

Tom S wrote:
"Chris Sprague" wrote in message
oups.com...
As something fun to do, my friends and I have discussed pooling our
money on occasion to obtain and drink something like a Bordeaux first
growth, a Burgundy grand cru, a Penfolds Grange, 1963 or 1977 Vintage
Port, etc. We all love wine, but currently our financial situations
do not warrant purchasing these things on our own really, or at
least,
very infrequently. $50 seems to be the upper limit for most of us,
and I've been known to splurge around in the $100 range on occasion,
but
for wines meant to be shared, why not pool our resources for a truly
great bottle?

In order to turn such tasting events into a more frequent thing, we'd
like to start going in on them together, and then cooking a nice meal
to go with it. Recent discussions on what to buy first have centered
on the fact that hardly any $200 bottles are enjoyable upon release.
Of course, we can get older bottles through various channels, but
that can be difficult up here in Maine. The few stores in Portland
(Maine) that stock great wines from great, historic vintages keep
them at warm, retail storage for months on end.

If you had to select a bottle in this range to drink more or less
immediately, what would you choose? Or is finding a recent vintage
ready to drink not worth the effort? Should we just go straight to
the "used" market, so to speak, and search out properly aged bottles?

In that realm, what are some suggestions for circa $200 bottles to
drink? Note: we're pretty big Bordeaux/Barolo/Super Tuscan type
drinkers. We'd all also love to try Penfolds Grange sometime.

Lots of good questions. You sound like a younger group than most of
us here - not that that's bad. I've been where you are now, but with
a somewhat smaller budget.

I think you should go straight to big California Cabernets. On a par
quality level, you'll get more bang for your buck than from
comparable level French wines. Don't pass up the occasional good
deal on a nice Bordeaux though.

For $50 to $150 you can get some mind bending Napa Cabernets/Bordeaux
blends. Over that range, I'd recommend the usual (in alphabetical
order):

Beringer (Private Reserve or Special Selection or ??)
Burgess Vintage Selection
BV Georges de Latour
Cakebread
Caymus Special Selection
Chateau Montelena
Clos du Val
Dunn
Freemark Abbey
Groth
Heitz "Martha's Vineyard"
Joseph Phelps ("Insignia" or "Backus Vineyard")
Louis Martini (try the Cabs, but _buy_ the Moscato Amabile! Oops -
never mind. They won't ship the Moscato. Bummer.)
Mayacamas
Mondavi Reserve
Opus One
Raymond
Ridge Monte Bello
Ritchie Creek
Sawyer
Shafer
Silverado
Silver Oak
Smith Madrone
Stag's Leap Wine Cellars
V Sattui (mail order only)

This is by no means a complete list. Those are just the ones I could
remember, that fall within your price band.

I could have mentioned Aurajo, Diamond Creek, Grace Family, Screaming
Eagle and a few others, but those are out of scope.

BTW, I like your 1963 Port idea. If you can find a bottle of the
Quinto do Noval it'd be a real treat! Also the 1994 Croft - but
that's very different in style. The '63 Quinta is elegant, complex,
supple, fully resolved, utterly gorgeous wine. The '94 Croft is a
voluptuous, decadent, 44DD harlot of a wine that takes no prisoners.
Take your pick. ;^D

Tom S

Shafer Hillside Select is truly nectar of the gods....

- John

1989 Grange is close to its best now, but I've no idea about US prices.

"Chris Sprague" wrote in message
oups.com...
1) Maine prohibits interstate shipping, but that doesn't mean that you
can't get wine shipped here. I've ordered from some of the bigger
online sellers with no problem.

2) I'll be in New York City next weekend. Perhaps I can pick up a
bottle there. What are the better stores?

3) The first time we did this, we had Bollinger. Nice suggestion

4) Your other suggestion of Sauternes is good, too. How long before
that bottle of 1998 Suduiraut in my cellar is ready to drink?

5) Thanks for the help! I think we really want to go with Grange this
time, so what years are ready to drink that can be had for around $200?

wrote in message
oups.com...


I think you should go straight to big California Cabernets.

Choke....spit...cough...gag...vomit....

Excellent! More for the rest of us. :^)

Tom S

Tom S wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...


I think you should go straight to big California Cabernets.

Choke....spit...cough...gag...vomit....

Excellent! More for the rest of us. :^)

Tom S

The worst of the worst...undrinkable wines made by morons for idiots....

Ms Leebee wrote:
Mat wrote:

snip

I can suggest an Australian site that might be a bit of help.

www.nicks.com.au


Do you work for Nicks, Nic... err.. Mat ... ?




No.

If you'd been around here a bit longer you probably would have noted my
mentioning Dan Murphys [ http://danmurphys.com.au ] every 3rd post.

Dan's is good for mass produced bulk stuff, and occaisionaly some
mid-range to premium stuff, and beer and spirits, but Nick's is a real
old world type of merchant, rather than a mega conglomerate, sell em
cheap and sell em by the truckload is the Dans business model.

He wants your business so he'll bend over backwards to help you out. And
his prices are very close to Dan's. In fact the two things I've gone to
the effort of price matching were *$2 [on a ~$15 bottle] and $3 [on a
~$30 bottle] cheaper* at Nicks.

And he guarantees everything in his shop. Which is in contrast to Dans
who sell anything regardless of quality.

And I signed up for Dans mailing list. About 3 years ago. Emails to
date: 0. Except for the reply to my inquiry as to why I hadn't recieved
any email "We only send out emails occaisionally for special offers",
very occaisionally apparently.

Sign up for Nick's mailing list. Its full of great wines and tasting
notes etc. Its a joy to see it in the inbox.

If you get a chance go to the shop in Malvern. Its a tiny pokey little
place, but the range there is magnificent. And he'll pop something open
for you for tasting usually. He's a funny old character. Part of the
charm of the place I think.

And the website is chockers with information and tasting notes etc. Its
great.



As he said when I mentioned Dan Murphys "They might poke you after a
couple of weeks of you being on the floor to see what the smell is, but
apart from that they're not very helpful nor knowledgeable".

The sad part is Nick's is miles away, or I'd be there at least once a
fortnight, if not more.




So, in short, no.

But you can tell I get a bit excited by Nick's.

Chris Sprague wrote:
1) Maine prohibits interstate shipping, but that doesn't mean that
you
can't get wine shipped here. I've ordered from some of the bigger
online sellers with no problem.


Not any more it doesn't!

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dorf/20050523.html

Rob

wrote in message
oups.com...
California Cabs? NEVER!

First of all, the CS is not a good food wine. Secondly, no wine made in
California can approach the heights of Italian reds.

How would _you_ know? You have stated numerous times that you drink *only*
Italian wines, and don't participate in wine tastings!

You are, therefore, ineligible to weigh in on this topic.

And you're dead wrong anyway. So THERE!

Tom S