Just back from a Caribbean cruise on MSC Opera (Italian line) the wine list
was predominately Italian so I took a chance on a couple of previous
unkowns described in the wine list as:


Pinot Nero Vinificato Rosso doc Vigna Rasara "Il Montu" (2001?)
a very nice wine not a great one, but certainly pleasant enough that we
drank two bottles ;-).

Butafucco Roccolo delle Viole OP (a town, full name escapes) Nice light
fruity with no great qualities, a good wine, but not a great one.

Barbera d'Asti doc La Coumaleja I really liked this one figure it to be a
$10-12 US bottle of wine but a good QPR at that point. Actually would have
bought more if it hadn't been the last night when I tried it.

One I didn't try was Motefalco "Colpetrone" the wine guy didn't really want
to push it, but somehow I think it should have been at least as good as the
Buttafucco does anyone know?

Oh yes, we did have a 98 Bunello "Marchesato degli Alleramici" and it was a
very nice experience, too bad I was drinking and not writing!

jcoulter wrote:

[cut]

One I didn't try was Motefalco "Colpetrone" the wine guy didn't really want
to push it, but somehow I think it should have been at least as good as the
Buttafucco does anyone know?


Buttafuoco and Sagrantino are quite different wines.

One (buttafuoco) is made in Oltre Po Pavese (Lombardia, north od Italy).

Sagrantino is produced in Umbria, near Assisi (Umbria, in the centre of
Italy).


Montefalco "Colpetrone" maybe was "Sagrantino di Montefalco" by Colpetrone?

If it is so, you missed a great red wine, richly colored, fully
structured and ageworthy wine.


taken from:
http://www.selectedestates.com/scacciadiavoli.html


[Scacciadiavoli is another Sagrantino producer, but the matter does not
change]

"
What makes Sagrantino such a unique and highly promising wine grape are
its extraordinary and practically unrivalled content of total
polyphenols (anthocyanins and tannins), which make Sagrantino-based
wines some of the fullest-bodied, deepest-flavored and longest-lived red
wines of all.

The variety tends to easily accumulate sugar grapes. Measurements of 22
to 23 Babo (close to 14,5/15 degrees of potential alcohol by volume)
are not uncommon. Skins are so high in polyphenols that 4.000 to 5.000
mg./lt. are normal for grape. To give but a proof of Sagrantino's
awesome raw power as wine grape, it's worth reminding that the minimum
dry extract required by law for Sagrantino di Montefalco Secco Doc is as
high 26 gr./lt., and that oftentimes Sagrantino di Montefalco wines
attain a level of dry extract as high 40-45 gr./lt. ! (it suffices to
note that as an acclaimed and full-bodied wine as Chateau Margaux
1986 carried a "mere" 32 gr./lt. of dry extract). Given such tremendous
level of concentration, makes sense that in the old times Sagrantino was
vinified off-dry, to let a slight residual sugar balance the powerful
grip of tannins on the back palate.
"


Also, in Italy when you speak about "Sagrantino", the first brand name
is "Arnaldo Caprai".


my 2 cents

--
Giorgio68

Giorgio68 wrote in
:

jcoulter wrote:

[cut]

One I didn't try was Motefalco "Colpetrone" the wine guy didn't
really want to push it, but somehow I think it should have been at
least as good as the Buttafucco does anyone know?


Buttafuoco and Sagrantino are quite different wines.

One (buttafuoco) is made in Oltre Po Pavese (Lombardia, north od
Italy).

Sagrantino is produced in Umbria, near Assisi (Umbria, in the centre
of Italy).


Montefalco "Colpetrone" maybe was "Sagrantino di Montefalco" by
Colpetrone?


Well the note did say Umbria. So why didn't I take you along to help me
choose? ;-)

Thank you for the reply.

jcoulter wrote:

[cut]

Well the note did say Umbria. So why didn't I take you along to help me
choose? ;-)

Next time, go to the internet point and ask
(here or in the italian wine newsgroup, named it.hobby.vino)

Thank you for the reply.

You are welcome


Ciao!

--
Giorgio68

"Giorgio68" wrote in message
...
Skins are so high in polyphenols that 4.000 to 5.000
mg./lt. are normal for grape. To give but a proof of Sagrantino's
awesome raw power as wine grape, it's worth reminding that the minimum
dry extract required by law for Sagrantino di Montefalco Secco Doc is as
high 26 gr./lt., and that oftentimes Sagrantino di Montefalco wines
attain a level of dry extract as high 40-45 gr./lt. ! (it suffices to
note that as an acclaimed and full-bodied wine as Chateau Margaux
1986 carried a "mere" 32 gr./lt. of dry extract).

Hi, Giorgio -

I'm a little confused by these numbers. 4 to 5 mg./liter polyphenols sounds
reasonable, but 40-45 gr./liter of "dry extract"? What's that? Please
define "dry extract".

If it's dissolved solids, I would assume that number includes tartaric acid,
but that rarely exceeds 10 gr./liter (except, perhaps, in a German white
wine). Even 26 gr./liter sounds like a lot of dissolved solids for a wine
to contain - especially a dry wine. So what's all the rest of the dissolved
solids?

Tom S

Tom S wrote:

"Giorgio68" wrote in message
...

Skins are so high in polyphenols that 4.000 to 5.000
mg./lt. are normal for grape. To give but a proof of Sagrantino's
awesome raw power as wine grape, it's worth reminding that the minimum
dry extract required by law for Sagrantino di Montefalco Secco Doc is as
high 26 gr./lt., and that oftentimes Sagrantino di Montefalco wines
attain a level of dry extract as high 40-45 gr./lt. ! (it suffices to
note that as an acclaimed and full-bodied wine as Chateau Margaux
1986 carried a "mere" 32 gr./lt. of dry extract).


Hi, Giorgio -

I'm a little confused by these numbers. 4 to 5 mg./liter polyphenols sounds
reasonable, but 40-45 gr./liter of "dry extract"? What's that? Please
define "dry extract".


Hi Tom,


with "dry extract" we refer to the solid compounds in wine, such as
sugars, acids and tannins. The whole that remain after a 180°C heating.


If it's dissolved solids, I would assume that number includes tartaric acid,
but that rarely exceeds 10 gr./liter (except, perhaps, in a German white
wine).


It is so.


Even 26 gr./liter sounds like a lot of dissolved solids for a wine
to contain - especially a dry wine. So what's all the rest of the dissolved
solids?

Tom, the best answer to you is to try to taste a glass of Sagrantino.
In Italy we say "possente", so we can translate it as "powerful".

For instance, from the web site of a winemaker like Arnaldo Caprai we
get, for the Sagrantino 25:


http://snipurl.com/crl7


ANALYTICAL DATA - 2000 vintage
°Alcohol: 14.5 Vol
Total Acid.:5.3 g/l
Final pH:3.65
Phenolics:4200 mg/l
Extract:35,4 (total)


However, I am not able to give you more datails about the specific of
the rest


my 2 cents

--
Giorgio68