Hello;
These days, with loads of up tempo restos serving a huge number of tapa
sized dishes (as in, "Our 17-course menu degustation"), finding a wine that
will neatly cover all the said dishes is very close to impossible. Of
course, unless you are c 20 persons sharing the same menu.
Enter the Wine Menu. A selection of wines by glass, specially chosen by Our
Wine Waiter/Sommelier/Consultant/A Guy in the Barber Shop Who is Really
interested in Wines ...
These may be fairly good examples of the wine maker´s craft - and sometimes
they are not.
LAst week, Xina and self dauntlessly entered the Stockholm high octane
eatery of "Vassa Eggen", there to squander our patrimony and wits, what
little of these still remains. Needless to say, the resto had a menu (we
choose the 5-course version) and a wine menu. After a glass of decideldy
forgettable Grüner Veltliner, as an aperitif, we ... got another glass of
the same, name of which totally escapes me, except for it ending in the word
"Lam", but which had no redeeming features what soever, so let´s forget
about it. It was followed by a LAgrein from Elena Walch, 2003, very toasted,
almost like smelling the smoke from a very fine cigar ... but apart from
that, a very standard red.
And so on. A Pinot Noir from Oz (Dalwinnie, 2001) which tasted nothing like
any Pinot Noir I´ve had, funky, really, not as if the wine had gone bad -
rather like it wasn´t a very good wine. And so on.

This may qualify as the most uninspired wine menu I´ve had since Neichel in
Barcelona, a cronic underachiever by all accounts. And it cost ... SEK 600?
That translates inot USD 85 or EU 66, which, to my mind, is rather a lot of
money. It is, however, rather less than the average price of a bottle of
wine in the "Vassa Eggen"!

Now, my question, gentles all, is, what´s your take on the wine menu
phenonem ... phenomon ... wine menus?
Do you regularly get good glasses of wine, in small quantities, at
acceptable prices? Or do you get the feeling of a sort of, one size fits
all, we pour it, you drink it? Do you as a rule order the wine menu, if
there is one?

Your input is deeply appreciated.

Cheers

Nils Gustaf

--
Respond to nils dot lindgren at drchips dot se

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 16:05:51 GMT, "Nils Gustaf Lindgren"
wrote:

Hello;
These days, with loads of up tempo restos serving a huge number of tapa
sized dishes (as in, "Our 17-course menu degustation"), finding a wine that
will neatly cover all the said dishes is very close to impossible.

Enter the Wine Menu. A selection of wines by glass, specially chosen by Our
Wine Waiter/Sommelier/Consultant/A Guy in the Barber Shop Who is Really
interested in Wines ...

Forgive me for snipping your horror story, but it is on the verge of
becoming the common occurrence worldwide.

Two issues ago the Wine Spectator featured the "world's best
restaurant"--a small, and therefore very exclusive, place in the
Basque hillside a mere two hour mountain drive along treacherous roads
from Barcelona. The "big thing" was the incredible creativity of the
"world's greatest chef" who had a full blown chemistry lab to build
his gastronomic delights.

The standard fare was, as you describe, some sort of twenty-plus tapa
arrangement created to attack each and every one of the senses (except
for the "common".) One course (I couldn't make this up) was the
delivery of balloons filled with orange-blossom aroma which the
waiters released into the nose of the suitably dazzled patrons. (I
wonder if their were accompanying tunes played on the release by
controlling the aperture, thereby titillating the ear as well?--Turkey
in the Straw, or Fool on the Hill might be apropos.)

The lab was busy building a polyester "cream" for future dishes--I
don't know what Escoffier would think of synthesizing the real natural
product.

Apparently the trend among the trendiest is foams and gels and
non-foods. Frankly, I'm into the now old-school fresh and tasty
myself.

Certainly with twenty bites of totally different and usually
outrageous presentations, there is no such thing as an accompanying
wine. The very concept of one wine being around long enough to mature
in the glass, develop some nuance, offer more than one taste, etc. is
repugnant to this new style of "nouvelle cuisine".

I think it is only a matter of time before the cries of nudity among
the emperor will, hopefully, put a stop to this.

Meanwhile, I will continue to attend wine menu dinners which feature
producers with which I am familiar or horizontals of wines in which I
am interested. I appreciate menus that offer recommended accompaniment
wines by-the-glass, but approach them with trepidation at new
establishments which have not yet proven their trustworthiness.
Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com

In ,
Nils Gustaf Lindgren typed:

Now, my question, gentles all, is, what´s your take on the wine
menu
phenonem ... phenomon ... wine menus?
Do you regularly get good glasses of wine, in small quantities,
at
acceptable prices? Or do you get the feeling of a sort of, one
size
fits all, we pour it, you drink it?


My experience with the restaurants around here that have such a
menu is that the wines are hardly ever outstanding, but almost
always decent.


Do you as a rule order the wine
menu, if there is one?


Yes, probably more often than not. It's usually a good value, and
I almost always prefer having smaller amounts of multiple wines,
rather than one.

--
Ken Blake
Please reply to the newsgroup

Ed Rasimus wrote:
respectfully snipped

Apparently the trend among the trendiest is foams and gels and
non-foods. Frankly, I'm into the now old-school fresh and tasty
myself.

snip
Hi Ed,
I also avoid "trendy". To me, trendy refers to folks who have more
money than taste, or common sense. I would totally discount any
chefs who haven't heard of Julia Child.
I'm always on the lookout for restaurants that have good food and
a reasonable wine list.
In a pinch, I look for "Good eats, good beer". :-)

Dick R.

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 11:39:55 -0600, "Dick R." wrote:

Ed Rasimus wrote:
respectfully snipped

Apparently the trend among the trendiest is foams and gels and
non-foods. Frankly, I'm into the now old-school fresh and tasty
myself.

snip
Hi Ed,
I also avoid "trendy". To me, trendy refers to folks who have more
money than taste, or common sense. I would totally discount any
chefs who haven't heard of Julia Child.
I'm always on the lookout for restaurants that have good food and
a reasonable wine list.
In a pinch, I look for "Good eats, good beer". :-)

Dick R.

Next you'll be telling me to stop where the trucks are.

My rule of thumb on the road is to try to avoid chains and franchises,
but I also never eat at a place called "Mom's".

Today, when traveling, the Internet has made it easy to find good
dining. Almost every city has a Web page and you'll find the local
restaurants listed, usually categorized by ethnicity or style and
often with links to the particular establishment's page where you can
peruse the menu, wine list, etc. Many even let you make a dinner
reservation online. I've seldom gone wrong that way.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com

Nils Gustaf Lindgren wrote:
Hello;
These days, with loads of up tempo restos serving a huge number of
tapa
sized dishes (as in, "Our 17-course menu degustation"), finding a
wine that
will neatly cover all the said dishes is very close to impossible. Of

course, unless you are c 20 persons sharing the same menu.
Enter the Wine Menu. A selection of wines by glass, specially chosen
by Our
Wine Waiter/Sommelier/Consultant/A Guy in the Barber Shop Who is
Really
interested in Wines ...
These may be fairly good examples of the wine maker=B4s craft - and
sometimes
they are not.
LAst week, Xina and self dauntlessly entered the Stockholm high
octane
eatery of "Vassa Eggen", there to squander our patrimony and wits,
what
little of these still remains. Needless to say, the resto had a menu
(we
choose the 5-course version) and a wine menu. After a glass of
decideldy
forgettable Gr=FCner Veltliner, as an aperitif, we ... got another
glass of
the same, name of which totally escapes me, except for it ending in
the word
"Lam", but which had no redeeming features what soever, so let=B4s
forget
about it. It was followed by a LAgrein from Elena Walch, 2003, very
toasted,
almost like smelling the smoke from a very fine cigar ... but apart
from
that, a very standard red.
And so on. A Pinot Noir from Oz (Dalwinnie, 2001) which tasted
nothing like
any Pinot Noir I=B4ve had, funky, really, not as if the wine had gone
bad -
rather like it wasn=B4t a very good wine. And so on.

This may qualify as the most uninspired wine menu I=B4ve had since
Neichel in
Barcelona, a cronic underachiever by all accounts. And it cost ...
SEK 600?
That translates inot USD 85 or EU 66, which, to my mind, is rather a
lot of
money. It is, however, rather less than the average price of a bottle
of
wine in the "Vassa Eggen"!

Now, my question, gentles all, is, what=B4s your take on the wine menu

phenonem ... phenomon ... wine menus?
Do you regularly get good glasses of wine, in small quantities, at
acceptable prices? Or do you get the feeling of a sort of, one size
fits
all, we pour it, you drink it? Do you as a rule order the wine menu,
if
there is one?

Your input is deeply appreciated.

Cheers

Nils Gustaf

--
Respond to nils dot lindgren at drchips dot se

What a shame Nils! I thank my stars that I stick to Backficka most of
the times!

But seriously its the choice between a rock and a hard place. A small
group can only order one or two bottles which are unlikley to match a
degustation menu. Wines by the glasses (which is essentially what a
wine menu is, without the glamour) are very unlikely to be the
better-choice-wines simply because very few restaurant will have the
volume to use up bottles quickly enough and/or spend the money to have
proper interim storage.

That's (my) theory to it, one will of course have to look at the list
and hear about it to make a decision in a special situation.

Cheers

Ed Rasimus wrote:

Next you'll be telling me to stop where the trucks are.
My rule of thumb on the road is to try to avoid chains and franchises,
but I also never eat at a place called "Mom's".
Today, when traveling, the Internet has made it easy to find good
dining. Almost every city has a Web page and you'll find the local
restaurants listed, usually categorized by ethnicity or style and
often with links to the particular establishment's page where you can
peruse the menu, wine list, etc. Many even let you make a dinner
reservation online. I've seldom gone wrong that way.

I don't like Mom's either. Have you ever heard of the calendar rating
system. Country restaurants are rated by the number of calendars they
have hanging behind the cash register. Try that on the back roads of
Colorado Ed.

I traveled for 20 years and often found myself in cities that I did
not know a thing about. I discovered the fundamental theorem of travel
dinning the hard way. So here is the number one thing. Never, never
ask the desk clerk in a hotel where the best restaurant in town is.

In article , nils.
says...

Hello;
These days, with loads of up tempo restos serving a huge number of tapa
sized dishes (as in, "Our 17-course menu degustation"), finding a wine that
will neatly cover all the said dishes is very close to impossible. Of
course, unless you are c 20 persons sharing the same menu.
Enter the Wine Menu. A selection of wines by glass, specially chosen by Our
Wine Waiter/Sommelier/Consultant/A Guy in the Barber Shop Who is Really
interested in Wines ...

[SNIP]

Your input is deeply appreciated.

Cheers

Nils Gustaf

Fortunately, I've had good luck with what I term "Sommelier's Tasting" menus.
These have almost always accompanied a "Chef's Tasting" menu. From Charlie
Trotter's, to French Laundry, to Aureole, to name a few, I usually try both,
if available. In the last few years, I've only had one stinker and that was
locally at a WS Grand Award Winner, where they removed the Spigleaus and used
"restaurant-grade jelly jars" for the "Sommelier's tasting!" When I asked, I
was told that the better glasses were reserved for those having "good" wine.
Well, that was definitely the case, as none of these were "good" wines, and at
US$65/person + the chef's tasting ~US$125, it was not acceptable. It seemed
that the sommelier had gone into the cellar and was cleaning out the junk that
salespeople had dropped off - nothing was good (in the jelly jars, who can
really tell), and nothing paired with the food served. One out of maybe two-
dozen is pretty good odds, or pretty good luck on my part.

I think it is a great idea, BUT should be carefully thought out. It must not
be looked at as a way to mark the hell up out of poor wine, and serve it to
patrons in the hopes that they will be too dazzeled by the sheer # of items to
notice.

To Ed's comments, I have NOT had the orange flower blossom water balloons yet
- maybe next trip to Spain!

Sorry that you had a bad experience right off. Trust me, this can be a good
thing.

Hunt

Hi Nils,

Well, here in the hinterlands of North Carolina the concept of a "wine
menu" has not yet emerged. The closest is one restaurant that has a
huge "by the glass" offering.

The closest thing we have here from time to time is where a restaurant
might put on a "wine dinner" where, generally they are pushing the
wines of a given distributor as opposed to trulying working to create
the right match between wine and food.

I guess it boils down to having some knowledge of the establishment to
know if they are truly working on creative wine/food matching or, they
are simply doing a gimic to push a distributor's wines or simply
trying something new for the heck of it.


Art Stratemeyer
=============================
http://www.stratsplace.com
A Community Celebration the Joy of Wine,Gardening and the Arts

Cellar! Wine Software
http://www.cellarwinesoftware.com

In article , nils.
says...

Hello;
These days, with loads of up tempo restos serving a huge number of tapa
sized dishes (as in, "Our 17-course menu degustation"), finding a wine that
will neatly cover all the said dishes is very close to impossible. Of
course, unless you are c 20 persons sharing the same menu.
Enter the Wine Menu. A selection of wines by glass, specially chosen by Our
Wine Waiter/Sommelier/Consultant/A Guy in the Barber Shop Who is Really
interested in Wines ...
These may be fairly good examples of the wine maker´s craft - and sometimes
they are not.
[SNIP]

Cheers

Nils Gustaf

One somewhat similar wine list presentation, that I do like, is the "flight,"
of wines by the glass. Several restaurants go to great lengths to offer 3-4
wines, usually 1/2-glass pours, with themes. In the best examples, the wines
go well with the chef's work that day, or that week. A few, will group by
geography, or by varietal, or maybe by style, and give one the opportunity to
experience many wines, in small servings, with the fare. Most that I have seen
are priced at little more than a full glass of any of the wines. This usually
adds an element of great fun, to pair with the wine and food.

Just a reflection on a similar idea,
Hunt

Hunt wrote:
In article , nils.
says...

Hello;
These days, with loads of up tempo restos serving a huge number of tapa
sized dishes (as in, "Our 17-course menu degustation"), finding a wine that
will neatly cover all the said dishes is very close to impossible. Of
course, unless you are c 20 persons sharing the same menu.
Enter the Wine Menu. A selection of wines by glass, specially chosen by Our
Wine Waiter/Sommelier/Consultant/A Guy in the Barber Shop Who is Really
interested in Wines ...


[SNIP]

Your input is deeply appreciated.

Cheers

Nils Gustaf


Fortunately, I've had good luck with what I term "Sommelier's Tasting" menus.
These have almost always accompanied a "Chef's Tasting" menu. From Charlie
Trotter's, to French Laundry, to Aureole, to name a few, I usually try both,
if available. In the last few years, I've only had one stinker and that was
locally at a WS Grand Award Winner, where they removed the Spigleaus and used
"restaurant-grade jelly jars" for the "Sommelier's tasting!" When I asked, I
was told that the better glasses were reserved for those having "good" wine.
Well, that was definitely the case, as none of these were "good" wines, and at
US$65/person + the chef's tasting ~US$125, it was not acceptable. It seemed
that the sommelier had gone into the cellar and was cleaning out the junk that
salespeople had dropped off - nothing was good (in the jelly jars, who can
really tell), and nothing paired with the food served. One out of maybe two-
dozen is pretty good odds, or pretty good luck on my part.

I'm with Hunt on this, Nils. The concept of the "wine menu" (used in
the French sense of the word menu) is still a rarity here, and usually
found only in restaurants with a strong interest in wine/food pairings.
Charlie Trotter's in Chicago has been doing this for years, and when I
partook of it for my 40th B-day, I was duly impressed with both the
choices and the pairings. However, I most recently encountered such an
opportunity at the restaurant Janos in Tucson (great meal, BTW) and
declined it because Jean was not interested in the "tasting menu" and
would have been left to fend for herself, wine-wise. Instead, we opted
for two half bottles: a 2001 Zind-Humbrecht Wintzenheim Gewürz (Indice 2
- Thank you, Olivier!) and a 2002 Cristom Pinot Noir, thereby
allowing us both to avail ourselves of two different, versatile wines
for our meal.

Mark Lipton

"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 16:05:51 GMT, "Nils Gustaf Lindgren"
wrote:

Hello;
These days, with loads of up tempo restos serving a huge number of tapa
sized dishes (as in, "Our 17-course menu degustation"), finding a wine
that
will neatly cover all the said dishes is very close to impossible.

Enter the Wine Menu. A selection of wines by glass, specially chosen by
Our
Wine Waiter/Sommelier/Consultant/A Guy in the Barber Shop Who is Really
interested in Wines ...

Forgive me for snipping your horror story, but it is on the verge of
becoming the common occurrence worldwide.

Two issues ago the Wine Spectator featured the "world's best
restaurant"--a small, and therefore very exclusive, place in the
Basque hillside a mere two hour mountain drive along treacherous roads
from Barcelona. The "big thing" was the incredible creativity of the
"world's greatest chef" who had a full blown chemistry lab to build
his gastronomic delights.

The standard fare was, as you describe, some sort of twenty-plus tapa
arrangement created to attack each and every one of the senses (except
for the "common".) One course (I couldn't make this up) was the
delivery of balloons filled with orange-blossom aroma which the
waiters released into the nose of the suitably dazzled patrons. (I
wonder if their were accompanying tunes played on the release by
controlling the aperture, thereby titillating the ear as well?--Turkey
in the Straw, or Fool on the Hill might be apropos.)

The lab was busy building a polyester "cream" for future dishes--I
don't know what Escoffier would think of synthesizing the real natural
product.

Apparently the trend among the trendiest is foams and gels and
non-foods. Frankly, I'm into the now old-school fresh and tasty
myself.

snipped
Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com

I guess this is Ferran Adria's El Bulli. I was thinking of eating there this
year. You have decidely put me off.

Ron Lel

In article , says...

Hunt wrote:
In article , nils.
says...

Hello;
These days, with loads of up tempo restos serving a huge number of tapa
sized dishes (as in, "Our 17-course menu degustation"), finding a wine that
will neatly cover all the said dishes is very close to impossible. Of
course, unless you are c 20 persons sharing the same menu.
Enter the Wine Menu. A selection of wines by glass, specially chosen by Our
Wine Waiter/Sommelier/Consultant/A Guy in the Barber Shop Who is Really
interested in Wines ...


[SNIP]

Your input is deeply appreciated.

Cheers

Nils Gustaf


Fortunately, I've had good luck with what I term "Sommelier's Tasting"
menus.
These have almost always accompanied a "Chef's Tasting" menu. From Charlie
Trotter's, to French Laundry, to Aureole, to name a few, I usually try
both,
if available. In the last few years, I've only had one stinker and that was
locally at a WS Grand Award Winner, where they removed the Spigleaus and
used
"restaurant-grade jelly jars" for the "Sommelier's tasting!" When I asked,
I
was told that the better glasses were reserved for those having "good"
wine.
Well, that was definitely the case, as none of these were "good" wines, and
at

US$65/person + the chef's tasting ~US$125, it was not acceptable. It seemed
that the sommelier had gone into the cellar and was cleaning out the junk
that

salespeople had dropped off - nothing was good (in the jelly jars, who can
really tell), and nothing paired with the food served. One out of maybe
two-
dozen is pretty good odds, or pretty good luck on my part.

I'm with Hunt on this, Nils. The concept of the "wine menu" (used in
the French sense of the word menu) is still a rarity here, and usually
found only in restaurants with a strong interest in wine/food pairings.
Charlie Trotter's in Chicago has been doing this for years, and when I
partook of it for my 40th B-day, I was duly impressed with both the
choices and the pairings. However, I most recently encountered such an
opportunity at the restaurant Janos in Tucson (great meal, BTW) and
declined it because Jean was not interested in the "tasting menu" and
would have been left to fend for herself, wine-wise. Instead, we opted
for two half bottles: a 2001 Zind-Humbrecht Wintzenheim Gewürz (Indice 2
- Thank you, Olivier!) and a 2002 Cristom Pinot Noir, thereby
allowing us both to avail ourselves of two different, versatile wines
for our meal.

Mark Lipton

Ah, the half-bottle list. So nicely done by some, a true after-thought by
others. Since I dine most often with just my wife, I look first at half-
bottles, then at by the glass, if there is no wine-tasting-menu choice. What a
rare find it is to see a really full list of the little guys! Just as you and
Jean did, it allows one much more freedom to chose wines based on the course,
and not have to try and find the quintessential wine for starters and
divergent main courses. I always give a special thank-you to the server, when
there is a good selection in the half-bottle list, so they can report that
some diners do appreciate the time and the effort on someone's part. It
usually indicates that this "someone" is rather serious about the diner's
pleasure and about wine. OTOH, it is obvious from some of these lists, that
the half is considered a poor step-child, and some even whisk away the good
glasses, when a half is ordered, as though that wine is not worthy of better.
The good places do it right and usually sell me 3-4 halfs, as though I were
ordering a magnum of Ch Latour. I really appreciate that.

Hunt

Art Stratemeyer wrote:
Hi Nils,

Well, here in the hinterlands of North Carolina the concept of a
"wine
menu" has not yet emerged. The closest is one restaurant that has a
huge "by the glass" offering.

The closest thing we have here from time to time is where a
restaurant
might put on a "wine dinner" where, generally they are pushing the
wines of a given distributor as opposed to trulying working to create
the right match between wine and food.

I guess it boils down to having some knowledge of the establishment
to
know if they are truly working on creative wine/food matching or,
they
are simply doing a gimic to push a distributor's wines or simply
trying something new for the heck of it.

I thought that The Fearrington House in Chapel Hill had a wine menu.

In article ,
says...

Hi Nils,

Well, here in the hinterlands of North Carolina the concept of a "wine
menu" has not yet emerged. The closest is one restaurant that has a
huge "by the glass" offering.

The closest thing we have here from time to time is where a restaurant
might put on a "wine dinner" where, generally they are pushing the
wines of a given distributor as opposed to trulying working to create
the right match between wine and food.

I guess it boils down to having some knowledge of the establishment to
know if they are truly working on creative wine/food matching or, they
are simply doing a gimic to push a distributor's wines or simply
trying something new for the heck of it.


Art Stratemeyer
=============================
http://www.stratsplace.com
A Community Celebration the Joy of Wine,Gardening and the Arts

Cellar! Wine Software
http://www.cellarwinesoftware.com

First, Art, a question: NC used to have some interesting liquor laws (I'm
going back many years here, so things most likely have changed). How do the
state's laws regarding restaurants and wine read? Is there one state
distributor, with big list for all restaurants to choose from?

As for the "featured wine," for me a 4 color glossy "table-talker" is usually
a bad sign.

Hunt