There is a very interesting article in Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA, 101,
17593(2004) that shows very good evidence that wine probably was made
about 9000 years ago. There is a brief article concerning this and other
evidence on pp 32-33 of the Jan 3 issue of Chemical and Engineerng News,
the news journal of the American Chemical Society. These journals should
be available at very large city libraries and at most universities that
do research in science and engineering.

Chemical analysis of 9000 year old pottery fragments found at the
Neolithic village of Jiahu in northern China support the suggestion that
the jars they came from contained a fermented mixture of rice,
fruit(grape or hawthorn fruit) and honey. The analysis showed evidence
of beeswax whch indicated that honey probably was used. There also is
evidence that rice was used. Compounds associated with modern wines were
looked for, especially tartaric acid, which was found. Both grape and
hawthorn fruit seeds have been found at the Jiahu site. Hawthorn fruit
contains about 4 times as much tartaric acid as grapes. Thus the fruit
used in the brew could have been grapes, hawthorn fruit, or a mixture of
both.

Also studied was liquid that was still present in tightly lidded 3000
year old bronze containers from the ancient city of Anyang in China.
This site was dated at about 1250-1000 BC. At the site, 52 of 90 brass
containers still contained liquid. It is thought that oxidation of
copper around the lid produced a perfect seal and thus retained the
liquid. These liquids were different from the evidence at the much older
site. No beeswax was detected, indicating that honey was not used. Also
there were only traces of tartaric acid, indicatig that grapes and
hawthorne fruit probably were not used. It is thoght these drinks were
produced by the use of molds to break down the carbohydrates of rice
into simple sugars, an ancient Chinese method that is called amylolysis
fermentation.

Although itis not certain, the evidence suggests that fermented
beverages were develoed independently in China and the Middle East.

There were no tasting notes for the liquid in the sealed bronze
containers. Likely it was somewhat toxic after being in contact with
bronze for so long. I suspect the tasting note miight have said "brassy"
if the brew had been tasted.



My mailbox is always full to avoid spam. To contact me, erase
from my email address. Then add . I do not
check this box every day, so post if you need a quick response.

In article ,
says...

There is a very interesting article in Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA, 101,
17593(2004) that shows very good evidence that wine probably was made
about 9000 years ago.
[SNIP interesting article]
It is thoght these drinks were
produced by the use of molds to break down the carbohydrates of rice
into simple sugars, an ancient Chinese method that is called amylolysis
fermentation.



I believe that I might have had some "rice wine" from that vintage... at least
it tasted like it! Maybe I just do not appreciate rice wine, all that much.

Hunt

PS thanks for the article.

Hey, I disrember dat wine, it was called "Lao Tsu's Rice Dyno-mite" and it
went well with some mu shu muskrat. In dose days dey weren;t much on
restaurants or carry outs, as dey still lived in rent controlled caves and
had to use a lot of bamboo to make a fire, the Dyno-mite helped with the
eatin but still youse was hungry a few sun cycles later. My second cousin,
Fong Shin Oon, he peddled da Dyno-mite cave to cave and gave me da mid east
franchise. Stuff never did catch on in Caanan.

J.Murray Fefferman
Worlds Oldest Wineperson
as told to


--
Joe "Beppe" Rosenberg

Mr Fefferman, known in ancient times as Mr Vino, started his wine career in
Neanderthal times when he catered Sidney the Fire Guy's first cookout in
what is now Jordan or Israel depending on your interpretation of UN actions.
To accompany the menu of roasted goat and chick peas, Murray selected a
syrah-muscat blend produced by Haasan ben Haasan who owned a grape arbor and
camel delousing center.

Murray also provided barrel fermented falernum and late harvest mavrodaphne
for the last supper, catered the meals on the Nina Pinta and Santa Maria,
found claret for Thomas Jefferson, bual for J Wilkes Booth and sold Amaretto
to Alphonse Capone. Currently, Mr Fefferman lives in semi retirement with
his twenty second wife, Lars(he is very nearsighted) in Boca Raton, but does
some consulting work for the Viagra Institute and Kialbasa Appreciation
Center in Pontiac, Michigan.




"Hunt" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

There is a very interesting article in Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA, 101,
17593(2004) that shows very good evidence that wine probably was made
about 9000 years ago.
[SNIP interesting article]
It is thoght these drinks were
produced by the use of molds to break down the carbohydrates of rice
into simple sugars, an ancient Chinese method that is called amylolysis
fermentation.



I believe that I might have had some "rice wine" from that vintage... at
least
it tasted like it! Maybe I just do not appreciate rice wine, all that
much.

Hunt

PS thanks for the article.

In article , says...

Hey, I disrember dat wine, it was called "Lao Tsu's Rice Dyno-mite" and it
went well with some mu shu muskrat. In dose days dey weren;t much on
restaurants or carry outs, as dey still lived in rent controlled caves and
had to use a lot of bamboo to make a fire, the Dyno-mite helped with the
eatin but still youse was hungry a few sun cycles later. My second cousin,
Fong Shin Oon, he peddled da Dyno-mite cave to cave and gave me da mid east
franchise. Stuff never did catch on in Caanan.

J.Murray Fefferman
Worlds Oldest Wineperson
as told to


--
Joe "Beppe" Rosenberg

Mr Fefferman, known in ancient times as Mr Vino, started his wine career in
Neanderthal times when he catered Sidney the Fire Guy's first cookout in
what is now Jordan or Israel depending on your interpretation of UN actions.
To accompany the menu of roasted goat and chick peas, Murray selected a
syrah-muscat blend produced by Haasan ben Haasan who owned a grape arbor and
camel delousing center.

Murray also provided barrel fermented falernum and late harvest mavrodaphne
for the last supper, catered the meals on the Nina Pinta and Santa Maria,
found claret for Thomas Jefferson, bual for J Wilkes Booth and sold Amaretto
to Alphonse Capone. Currently, Mr Fefferman lives in semi retirement with
his twenty second wife, Lars(he is very nearsighted) in Boca Raton, but does
some consulting work for the Viagra Institute and Kialbasa Appreciation
Center in Pontiac, Michigan.




"Hunt" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

There is a very interesting article in Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA, 101,
17593(2004) that shows very good evidence that wine probably was made
about 9000 years ago.
[SNIP interesting article]
It is thoght these drinks were
produced by the use of molds to break down the carbohydrates of rice
into simple sugars, an ancient Chinese method that is called amylolysis
fermentation.

Beppe! I've missed the humor. Your last dozen, or so, posts have all be
straight, addressing the issues raised.

Thanks for the laughs,
Hunt