My brother is turning 30 this year (06 May), and being a fellow wine
drinker, I felt that it would be nice to get him a bottle of wine from his
birth year - 1975 (and I hope he doesn't read this NG!).

From what I understand, 1975 was only a vintage in the Duoro due to the
threat of nationalization, so Ports from 1975 are on the light side and may
be nearing or past the end of their lives. I'd still consider one if I was
reasonably sure that it would be worth drinking.

Bordeaux seems to be very tannic, though some seem to be showing well.
Some of my contenders here a

Ch. Gloria
Ch. Talbot
Branaire Ducru

I would not rule out wines from other regions/countries. Both of us have
varied tastes, and in addition to Port and Bordeaux, he is particularly fond
of Brunello and Rioja, if that helps. I'm looking to keep it under $125 or
so, if possible.

Thanks!

- Chris Sprague

I am not a big fan of most of the red Bordeauxs from 1975, although
there are some decent ones and many have lasted well. However the
Sauternes from 1975 can be outstanding. Since a little Sauternes can go
a long way, you could consider the 1/2 bottle size. The outstanding
Yquem may be over your price limit, but Climens and Suduiraut are also
outstanding, and many of the others are not far behind. Finding a good
75 red or white Burgundy is likely to be risky. There were a lot of top
German Rieslings made in 75, but only the best auslesen and higher
grades are likely to be of interest now in most cases. A few 75
Champagnes were outstanding, but only the best such as Krug are likely
to be interesting now, and these are likely over your price limit. A few
of the best Brunellos from 75 are still holding well, but some of these
likely are over your price limit. Some of the 75 Tokaji Aszu , 5 putts
or higher, is very good and still holding well. The 75 Oporto was a bit
weak in general, but The Taylor has been reported to be very good with
many years of life left. The 75 Cabernet Sauvignon from California was a
bit weak in general, but a few of the best ones are still of interest.
Some of the 75 Australian reds probably have lasted, but I do not have
information about them at hand.

Of course storage is all important for wines nearing 30 years of age, so
you must be extremely careful about the source of your wine.

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(Cwdjrx _) wrote:

I am not a big fan of most of the red Bordeauxs from 1975,
although there are some decent ones and many have lasted well.

From those that Parker recommends, these are the ones that I would
put on the safe side:

Cos, Haut-Marbuzet, Lynch-Bages, Pichon-Lalande (vinified by
Michel Delon of Léoville Las Cases in this vintage!), Ducru,
Léoville-Barton and Las Cases, Talbot, Haut-Brion, La Mission,
Canon, Troplong-Mondot.

Finding a good 75 red or white Burgundy is likely to be risky.

Don't know about the whites, but *avoid* the reds. 1975 was a
terrible vintage: rot, rot, rot. I don't think any really long
lasting red Burgundy was made.

"Michael Pronay" wrote in message...
(Cwdjrx _) wrote:

I am not a big fan of most of the red Bordeauxs from 1975,
although there are some decent ones and many have lasted well.

From those that Parker recommends, these are the ones that I would
put on the safe side:

Cos, Haut-Marbuzet, Lynch-Bages, Pichon-Lalande (vinified by
Michel Delon of Léoville Las Cases in this vintage!), Ducru,
Léoville-Barton and Las Cases, Talbot, Haut-Brion, La Mission,
Canon, Troplong-Mondot.

We're currently working our way through a case of the 1975 La Lagune. Really
nice. There's lots of sediment, and it's a bit tannicky at first, but we
strain through a coffee filter and aeriate it for about 90 minutes (in an
original rinsed and dried bottle), and it drinks quite nice.

Are the Parker ratings current? I'm looking for a good source for
non-outdated ratings. I now use WS, but they are medicore at best in keeping
their numbers up-to-date. I have enjoyed a large number of wines (Bordeaux)
either not in their database or way outdated (e.g., "Drink now until 1999").
One would think after 1999 they'd try it again. Who is the best at keeping
their ratings current?

Can somebody with access to one of these updated ratings please tell me what
they say about the 1966 Pichon-Baron and the 1975 La Lagune (for comparison
to my own experience). Would that be an online system or a book?

Thanks in advance.

\/

"Vincent" wrote:

Are the Parker ratings current?

The wines are from his latest Bordeaux book, from the beginning,
where he assesses the vintages in depth, and where he lists the
most successful wines. (I did not put down the first growths,
however, because they obviously transcend the buyer's budget.)

M.

From Michael's notes:
From those that Parker recommends, these are the ones that I would
put on the safe side:
Cos, Haut-Marbuzet, Lynch-Bages, Pichon-Lalande Ducru, Léoville-Barton
and Las Cases, Talbot, Haut-Brion, La Mission, Canon, Troplong-Mondot.

Michael - you omitted some nice drinkers. The 75 Beychevelle and Branaire
continue to hold up, and even modest wines like the Boyd Cantenac and Gloria
offer pleasure. The Barton is now drinking well, and the LasCases has only come
around in the last couple of years - no rush there!

(I did not put down the first growths,
however, because they obviously transcend the buyer's budget.)

So does the absolutely killer La Mission! If you can find it for less than $500
US you are doing well.

"Michael Pronay"...

The wines are from his latest Bordeaux book, from the beginning,
where he assesses the vintages in depth, and where he lists the
most successful wines. (I did not put down the first growths,
however, because they obviously transcend the buyer's budget.)

M.

I might like to purchase this book, depending on what it contains.

What (if anything) does it say about 1966 Pichon-Baron?
What (if anything) does it say about 1975 La Lagune?

Thanks in advance

Michael Pronay states: "Don't know about the whites, but *avoid* the
reds. 1975 was a terrible vintage: rot, rot, rot. I don't think any
really long lasting red Burgundy was made."

I do not recall ever tasting a 1975 red Burgundy. They had a terrible
repution in the US. However some of the whites were not bad if carefull
selected. I did not mention any, because even the best likely are too
old and/or expensive for the birthday wine. I did taste the 1975 Le
Montrachet from Thevenin. Unfortunately my notes are marked only R.
Thevenin, and there is Rene and Roland, so I am not sure which applies
to the wine I tasted. At one time Roland T. had exclusive distribution
rights for the D. de Ch. de Puligny-Montrachet wines, which included 1/5
ha of Le Montrachet. I believe this tiny plot of Le Montrachet was
bought by DRC quite a while ago. Anyway the wine I had at about 7 years
old was rather concentrated and had considerable merit, but it was a
little flat, and I doubt very much if it would be worth drinking today.

I also had several bottles of Moreau's Clos des Hospices 1975 Chablis.
This was very hard and austure at first. It required about 10 years to
develop and was still drinking well at 15 years. But again, I doubt if
it would be of much interest now.

Of course in Bordeaux, Petrus 1975 has a very high reputation by many,
but the price is so high that I did not mention it.

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A couple of '75 Bdx I've found to be quite good (and reasonably inexpensive)
have been the Talbot and the Gruaud-Larose.

Even less expensive, I was shocked that a '75 Giscours was showing well, as
it's not a favorite estate. But definitely at 'drink up" stage.

And on the slightly pricier end, my note re the 1975 Palmer from few months
ago:
-slightly "high-toned", but amazing complex and complete wine. Still a touch
tannic, but great fruit balancing some apparent acidity, and loads of secondary
aromas of leather, tobacco, and more. I recently told someone that to my tastes
Palmer is overrated, as even top vintages like 1983 have left me unmoved. Can't
say that anymore. My WOTN


Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

PS Obviously with 30 year old wines, provenance and bottle condition are
everything!
Dale

Dale Williams
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(Cwdjrx _) wrote:

I also had several bottles of Moreau's Clos des Hospices 1975
Chablis. This was very hard and austure at first. It required
about 10 years to develop and was still drinking well at 15
years. But again, I doubt if it would be of much interest now.

Funny, then same wine, one year younger, was one of the very first
bottles of serious white wine I ever acquired. Must have been
around 1978. Drunk in the first half of the 1990s (and always
stored well) it completely over the hill, nastily oxidized. With
the knowledge of today I don't know whether it was the wine or the
cork (premature random oxidation). At the time I thought the wine
should have been drunk by 1980. (But then the 1976 burgundies from
that hot year were know to be fat and flabby, so maybe it was the
wine.)

M.

"Vincent" wrote:

[Parker's "Bordeaux"]

What (if anything) does it say about 1966 Pichon-Baron?

"It is impossible to find a first class wine between 1961 and
1981" (my retranslation from the German edition).

What (if anything) does it say about 1975 La Lagune?

"Some vintages of the 1970s can be surprising, especially when
stored impeccably: The 1978, always first class (88/100, l.t.
2/89), the 1976 (88/100, l.t. 12/89), the 1975 (87/100, l.t.
1/01), and the 1970 (87/100, l.t. 1/01 from a magnum). They were
all solidly vinified, classic Clarets that still can provide much
leasure, provided the bottles were kept decently. The 1960s were
largely disappointing. (Same remark.)

Given that Robert Parker is quite strict with translations, I
guess this very much should come near to the original.

Can anybody veryfy? (My own English copy seems to have vanished
for the moment).

M.

amnspam (Dale Williams) wrote:

Even less expensive, I was shocked that a '75 Giscours was
showing well, as it's not a favorite estate.

Giscours 1975, how could I have forgotten! It's the second best of
the 1970s, close to the mammoth 1970 (when well-stored).

M.

Clive Coates gave extensive Bordeaux rating charts in the September 2004
issue of the vine. He rates on a 20 point scale. Here are the 1975 reds
that he rated 17 or above. All are ready to drink, but most should hold
a while longer. I find Coates tends to fall between Parker and Broadbent
in his likes in wines.

Latour 18; Haut-Brion 18.5; Cheval Blanc 18.5; Petrus 19.5;
Grand-Puy-Lacoste 17.5; Lynch-Bages 17.5; Leo. Las Cases 17.5;
Gruaud-Larose 17; Ducru-Beaucaillou 17; Palmer 19; Montrose 17;
La-Mission-Haut-Brion 19.5; Canon 17.5; La Conseillante19.

But many of the 1975s did not turn out very well. Here are some of
Coates' low ratings: Lafite 14; Margaux 13; Pichon-Baron 12;
Duhart-Milon 12; Lagrange 12.5; Brane-Cantenac 12; Cantmerle 12; Clos
L'Eglise 12.5.

Buying 1975 shortly after relase turned out to be very risky. And the
hype in the US about the oustanding "classic" 1975 vintage led many to
pay very high prices for Lafite and such.



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