Although I was tempted to comment on the recent, heavily politically
oriented thread, I have restrained myself for once. (well, except for that
last)

I'm sipping a nicely aged bottle of 1988 Inglenook "Reserve Cask" Cabernet
($6US), and ignoring the Democratic National Convention that's straining to
burst forth from my de-energized TV. :^)

I plan to ignore the Republican Convention too - albeit over a different
bottle of wine. Please wake me up in time for the Crush (which appears to
be early this year), and then let me sleep until it's time to vote...

Tom S

On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 04:14:16 GMT, "Tom S"
wrote:

Although I was tempted to comment on the recent, heavily politically
oriented thread, I have restrained myself for once. (well, except for that
last)

I'm sipping a nicely aged bottle of 1988 Inglenook "Reserve Cask" Cabernet
($6US), and ignoring the Democratic National Convention that's straining to
burst forth from my de-energized TV. :^)

I plan to ignore the Republican Convention too - albeit over a different
bottle of wine. Please wake me up in time for the Crush (which appears to
be early this year), and then let me sleep until it's time to vote...

There's a lot to be said for non-partisanship, particularly in this
forum. But will you be drinking a more expensive wine when the
Republicans meet? ;-)

Vino
To reply, add "x" between
letters and numbers of
e-mail address.

Back to wine.... Oh yes, good idea!! I realized early on that I couldn't
*plonk* everyone who discusses politics here, otherwise, half my resources
would be gone. So I learned how to set up a message rule by subject, and now
the newsgroup is back to the way I discovered it 2-3 weeks ago (or
whenever).

*** A few newbie WINE questions, if I may ***

1) Now that I'm learning as much as I can about wine (reading some books,
going to wine-related sites, and of course, drinking wine), I run into a
little confusion almost immediately. Winecommune.com lists "Bordeaux blend"
under the category "varietals," whereas a book that I am reading lists
Medoc, Graves, Pomerol, etc. as the actual varietals. Which is correct?

Winecommune.com further divides Bordeaux blends into sub-categories,
however, these sub-categories (such as Pauillac, St. Julien, St. Estephe,
Margaux) do seem to be one level above the actual wineries* themselves
(however, there does seem to be a winery* named Margaux as well), yet not
exactly worthy of being labeled "varietal." Please explain!

2) Received my first two bottles of wine that I won on Winecommune.com. One
was perfect, but the other one had some (very slight) leakage (in transit
for 3 days, California to Chicago). Although the seller promises a full
refund if the wine is bad, he claims to have seen that happen before without
any problems. Suggests I let it settle for at least 3 days. I was planning
to keep it longer (WS: "Best after 2006"). Now my dilemma is if I try it
after 3 days, just to see if it's good or not (albeit, I will enjoy it, if
it is), I still have to buy another bottle if I want it for 2006, as
planned. So, if I do go with my original plan to cellar if for 2 years, are
my chances favorable that it still will be drinkable? It's a 1996
Pichon-Longueville Baron.

Thanks in advance

* One other question: Is my use of the word "winery" correct? I have also
seen "producer" used in, what I believe to be, a synonymous fashion. Am I
correct?


"Tom S" wrote in message
.com...
Although I was tempted to comment on the recent, heavily politically
oriented thread, I have restrained myself for once. (well, except for
that
last)

I'm sipping a nicely aged bottle of 1988 Inglenook "Reserve Cask" Cabernet
($6US), and ignoring the Democratic National Convention that's straining
to
burst forth from my de-energized TV. :^)

I plan to ignore the Republican Convention too - albeit over a different
bottle of wine. Please wake me up in time for the Crush (which appears to
be early this year), and then let me sleep until it's time to vote...

Tom S

In article , nobody@nowhere.
com says...

Back to wine.... Oh yes, good idea!! I realized early on that I couldn't
*plonk* everyone who discusses politics here, otherwise, half my resources
would be gone. So I learned how to set up a message rule by subject, and now
the newsgroup is back to the way I discovered it 2-3 weeks ago (or
whenever).

*** A few newbie WINE questions, if I may ***

1) Now that I'm learning as much as I can about wine (reading some books,
going to wine-related sites, and of course, drinking wine), I run into a
little confusion almost immediately. Winecommune.com lists "Bordeaux blend"
under the category "varietals," whereas a book that I am reading lists
Medoc, Graves, Pomerol, etc. as the actual varietals. Which is correct?

Winecommune.com further divides Bordeaux blends into sub-categories,
however, these sub-categories (such as Pauillac, St. Julien, St. Estephe,
Margaux) do seem to be one level above the actual wineries* themselves
(however, there does seem to be a winery* named Margaux as well), yet not
exactly worthy of being labeled "varietal." Please explain!

The simple answer, Vincent, is that some wines are "named" for the main grape
(s) that went into the wine, i.e. Cabernet Sauvignon, Merlot, Chardonnay, etc
.., while others (Bordeaux - region, France is a perfect example) have place
names, i.e. St Estephe, Pauillac, Medoc, etc. In some cases the place goes
much farther in the name, Ch. ______, Medoc, Bordeaux. These wines are define
the place that the grapes came from (and very often the location where the
wine was actually produced), rather than the "blend" of grapes going into it,
usually Cabernet Sauvignon, Cabernet Franc, Merlot, Petite Verdot, Malbec. the
wine might be 100% CS, or M, or CF, or might be a combination of all five. The
producer (and to some extent the location) will dictate. Sometimes, the exact
percentage of the constituant varietals will be difficult to track down. In
other cases history will usually give you a strong clue.

A really rough "rule-of-thumb" is that much new world wine lists the varietal
(grape type), while much old world wine lists the place. Neither is "correct,"
it is just how each does it. Many US, CA producers are now doing blended
wines, that usually have proprietary names (rather than place names), that
work with the Bordeaux varietals, i.e. Cain 5, which usually uses all five
Bordeaux red varietals.

Others will be happy to give you very useful and excellent detail on just who
does what, with which.

2) Received my first two bottles of wine that I won on Winecommune.com. One
was perfect, but the other one had some (very slight) leakage (in transit
for 3 days, California to Chicago). Although the seller promises a full
refund if the wine is bad, he claims to have seen that happen before without
any problems. Suggests I let it settle for at least 3 days. I was planning
to keep it longer (WS: "Best after 2006"). Now my dilemma is if I try it
after 3 days, just to see if it's good or not (albeit, I will enjoy it, if
it is), I still have to buy another bottle if I want it for 2006, as
planned. So, if I do go with my original plan to cellar if for 2 years, are
my chances favorable that it still will be drinkable? It's a 1996
Pichon-Longueville Baron.

Interesting problem. If the merchant will replace the bottle, I think you
might be more pleased with that result. Wine that has had some leakage can
still be wonderful. If, however, you are going to lay it down for another 2
years, you could possibly have problems - not saying that you WILL, only that
you could. Drinking a still youthful Bordeaux early might not be the most
enlightening thing for you to do right now in your wine journey. OTOH, there
can be a great learning experience in doing so. I'd pop it, and pour a little
into a really large glass, doing all the normal tasting steps, before taking a
little sip, or three, and doing an evaluation. Letting it sit during a slow
dinner, and coming back to it from time-to-time and giving it a good swirl,
for a re-evaluation (don't top up the glass during this experiment), will
began to reveal the wine to you. If there are still "harsh elements" that you
are finding, you might want to decant the remainder, letting it sit in an
unsealed decanter for a few hours. Start the process all over with a glass
from the decanter, and gauge the "progress" of the wine. At the very least,
you should have a fun evening charting the evolution of the wine and THAT
experience, alone, should be worth the price of the bottle. After you've had a
few glasses (shared with a fun person(s), you can then decide whether to
acquire an additional bottle. By following the merchant's recommendation, and
being patient, they might well be willing to extend a financial courtesy to
you with respect to the second bottle - I surely would. If you are going to
cellar for another few years, maybe pick up two bottles, in case WS was off in
their "time-to-drink" speculation, and it still needs more time, OR, in case
they were right and you LOVE the wine! Wouldn't it be nice to have an
additional bottle in your cellar, if it's GREAT?

Thanks in advance

* One other question: Is my use of the word "winery" correct? I have also
seen "producer" used in, what I believe to be, a synonymous fashion. Am I
correct?

Usually they are synonymous. There are many possible levels of involvemnt in
the production of wine around the world. One may grow the grapes, extract the
juice, ferment it, bottle it, store it for some time, then sell the wine to an
exporter, or merchandiser, or handle even that, themselves. Other times,
someone grows, someone else crushes, someone else buys the juice and may make
the wine, or even re-sell the juice to one, who does. After the fermentation,
all sorts of roads can be taken with respect to getting the wine to the
consumer. The answer then, is "it depends," but for most purposes, they are
synoymous.

Most of all - ENJOY!!!
Hunt


"Tom S" wrote in message
y.com...
Although I was tempted to comment on the recent, heavily politically
oriented thread, I have restrained myself for once. (well, except for
that
last)

I'm sipping a nicely aged bottle of 1988 Inglenook "Reserve Cask" Cabernet
($6US), and ignoring the Democratic National Convention that's straining
to
burst forth from my de-energized TV. :^)

I plan to ignore the Republican Convention too - albeit over a different
bottle of wine. Please wake me up in time for the Crush (which appears to
be early this year), and then let me sleep until it's time to vote...

Tom S

On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 13:49:14 GMT, "Vincent"
wrote:

*** A few newbie WINE questions, if I may ***

1) Now that I'm learning as much as I can about wine (reading some books,
going to wine-related sites, and of course, drinking wine), I run into a
little confusion almost immediately. Winecommune.com lists "Bordeaux blend"
under the category "varietals," whereas a book that I am reading lists
Medoc, Graves, Pomerol, etc. as the actual varietals. Which is correct?

Varietals are species of grapes. Cabernet sauvignon is a type of
grape. Chardonnay is a type of grape. Merlot is a type of grape.

Medoc, Graves, Pomeral, etc. are regions--geographic areas that
produce a specific style of wine. Depending upon the country there
will usually be some sort of controlling legislation with regard to
the use of one of these regional names. You'll see acronyms like DOC
to indicate an authorized use of a regional name.

Bordeaux tends to favor cabernet sauvignon and merlot as the basic
varietal, but they blend other grapes to develop their characteristic
style. (One bank of the river favors CS and the other leans to merlot,
but I never know whether that is looking upstream or downstream and am
too lazy to look it up this AM.) Regardless "Bordeaux blend" means a
mix of varietals similar to what is found in the Bordeaux region.

Winecommune.com further divides Bordeaux blends into sub-categories,
however, these sub-categories (such as Pauillac, St. Julien, St. Estephe,
Margaux) do seem to be one level above the actual wineries* themselves
(however, there does seem to be a winery* named Margaux as well), yet not
exactly worthy of being labeled "varietal." Please explain!

Again, you're mixing regions with grape species.

2) Received my first two bottles of wine that I won on Winecommune.com. One
was perfect, but the other one had some (very slight) leakage (in transit
for 3 days, California to Chicago). Although the seller promises a full
refund if the wine is bad, he claims to have seen that happen before without
any problems. Suggests I let it settle for at least 3 days. I was planning
to keep it longer (WS: "Best after 2006"). Now my dilemma is if I try it
after 3 days, just to see if it's good or not (albeit, I will enjoy it, if
it is), I still have to buy another bottle if I want it for 2006, as
planned. So, if I do go with my original plan to cellar if for 2 years, are
my chances favorable that it still will be drinkable? It's a 1996
Pichon-Longueville Baron.

If you're wine shipped in three days recently, it probably survived
quite nicely--it's been cool. Shipping by UPS ground is pretty
reliable, but try to stay away from mid-summer when wines can get
backed in the truck or mid-winter when they can freeze. Spring/fall
are ideal shipping times.

"Very slight" leakage would be undetectable and concealed by the
capsule. If you've got leakage dripped out beyond the capsule, that
seems more than very slight.

Settling after shipping is always a good idea. Don't expect full
quality of a good wine if you rip it out of the box and pull the cork
on the day it arrives.

If you plan to buy some quantity of the Pichon-Longqueville Baron for
cellaring, by all means taste in a week or so. If you only intend to
buy this one or two bottle shipment, then cross your fingers and put
it away for 2006.

Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
"Phantom Flights, Bangkok Nights"
Both from Smithsonian Books
***www.thunderchief.org

On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 13:49:14 GMT, "Vincent"
wrote:

*** A few newbie WINE questions, if I may ***

1) Now that I'm learning as much as I can about wine (reading some books,
going to wine-related sites, and of course, drinking wine), I run into a
little confusion almost immediately. Winecommune.com lists "Bordeaux blend"
under the category "varietals," whereas a book that I am reading lists
Medoc, Graves, Pomerol, etc. as the actual varietals. Which is correct?

Varietals are species of grapes. Cabernet sauvignon is a type of
grape. Chardonnay is a type of grape. Merlot is a type of grape.

Medoc, Graves, Pomeral, etc. are regions--geographic areas that
produce a specific style of wine. Depending upon the country there
will usually be some sort of controlling legislation with regard to
the use of one of these regional names. You'll see acronyms like DOC
to indicate an authorized use of a regional name.

Bordeaux tends to favor cabernet sauvignon and merlot as the basic
varietal, but they blend other grapes to develop their characteristic
style. (One bank of the river favors CS and the other leans to merlot,
but I never know whether that is looking upstream or downstream and am
too lazy to look it up this AM.) Regardless "Bordeaux blend" means a
mix of varietals similar to what is found in the Bordeaux region.

Winecommune.com further divides Bordeaux blends into sub-categories,
however, these sub-categories (such as Pauillac, St. Julien, St. Estephe,
Margaux) do seem to be one level above the actual wineries* themselves
(however, there does seem to be a winery* named Margaux as well), yet not
exactly worthy of being labeled "varietal." Please explain!

Again, you're mixing regions with grape species.

2) Received my first two bottles of wine that I won on Winecommune.com. One
was perfect, but the other one had some (very slight) leakage (in transit
for 3 days, California to Chicago). Although the seller promises a full
refund if the wine is bad, he claims to have seen that happen before without
any problems. Suggests I let it settle for at least 3 days. I was planning
to keep it longer (WS: "Best after 2006"). Now my dilemma is if I try it
after 3 days, just to see if it's good or not (albeit, I will enjoy it, if
it is), I still have to buy another bottle if I want it for 2006, as
planned. So, if I do go with my original plan to cellar if for 2 years, are
my chances favorable that it still will be drinkable? It's a 1996
Pichon-Longueville Baron.

If you're wine shipped in three days recently, it probably survived
quite nicely--it's been cool. Shipping by UPS ground is pretty
reliable, but try to stay away from mid-summer when wines can get
backed in the truck or mid-winter when they can freeze. Spring/fall
are ideal shipping times.

"Very slight" leakage would be undetectable and concealed by the
capsule. If you've got leakage dripped out beyond the capsule, that
seems more than very slight.

Settling after shipping is always a good idea. Don't expect full
quality of a good wine if you rip it out of the box and pull the cork
on the day it arrives.

If you plan to buy some quantity of the Pichon-Longqueville Baron for
cellaring, by all means taste in a week or so. If you only intend to
buy this one or two bottle shipment, then cross your fingers and put
it away for 2006.

Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
"Phantom Flights, Bangkok Nights"
Both from Smithsonian Books
***www.thunderchief.org

On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 08:52:49 -0600, Ed Rasimus
wrote:


Varietals are species of grapes. Cabernet sauvignon is a type of
grape. Chardonnay is a type of grape. Merlot is a type of grape.


PICKY actually all wine grapes are of the species vitis vinifera, or
hybrids thereof. /PICKY

Mike

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail

On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 08:52:49 -0600, Ed Rasimus
wrote:


Varietals are species of grapes. Cabernet sauvignon is a type of
grape. Chardonnay is a type of grape. Merlot is a type of grape.


PICKY actually all wine grapes are of the species vitis vinifera, or
hybrids thereof. /PICKY

Mike

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail

in article , Max Hauser at
wrote on 7/30/04 8:01 AM:



I would like to learn of other effective books for this purpose for
Anglophone readers. There's one in the last couple of years by a US
graduate of both the MW and MS programs (extremely unusual, and testimony to
his wine knowledge), thinner than Stevenson's, in a "coffee-table" format,
but I don't know it well or have the details handy. Maybe other people
experienced with this situation can recommend other sources?

-- Max



Is this the author you refer to? If so, do you recall which of his books
impressed you? Thanks.


From wine-expos.com:
Doug Frost is a Kansas City based wines and spirits writer and lecturer who
writes for numerous regional and national publications. His first book,
Uncorking Wine was released in 1996 to critical acclaim and his newest book,
On Wine, a Master Sommelier and Master of Wine Tells All, is recently
published by Rizzoli International. He holds the titles of both Master of Wine
and Master Sommelier, only the second person in history to have achieved both
these remarkable distinctions. Eleven years later, there are only three people
in the entire world with both titles. According to USA Today, "Frost likely
knows as much as anyone in the world about how to make, market, serve and
identify wines."

in article , Max Hauser at
wrote on 7/30/04 8:01 AM:



I would like to learn of other effective books for this purpose for
Anglophone readers. There's one in the last couple of years by a US
graduate of both the MW and MS programs (extremely unusual, and testimony to
his wine knowledge), thinner than Stevenson's, in a "coffee-table" format,
but I don't know it well or have the details handy. Maybe other people
experienced with this situation can recommend other sources?

-- Max



Is this the author you refer to? If so, do you recall which of his books
impressed you? Thanks.


From wine-expos.com:
Doug Frost is a Kansas City based wines and spirits writer and lecturer who
writes for numerous regional and national publications. His first book,
Uncorking Wine was released in 1996 to critical acclaim and his newest book,
On Wine, a Master Sommelier and Master of Wine Tells All, is recently
published by Rizzoli International. He holds the titles of both Master of Wine
and Master Sommelier, only the second person in history to have achieved both
these remarkable distinctions. Eleven years later, there are only three people
in the entire world with both titles. According to USA Today, "Frost likely
knows as much as anyone in the world about how to make, market, serve and
identify wines."

in article , Max Hauser at
wrote on 7/30/04 8:01 AM:



I would like to learn of other effective books for this purpose for
Anglophone readers. There's one in the last couple of years by a US
graduate of both the MW and MS programs (extremely unusual, and testimony to
his wine knowledge), thinner than Stevenson's, in a "coffee-table" format,
but I don't know it well or have the details handy. Maybe other people
experienced with this situation can recommend other sources?

-- Max



Is this the author you refer to? If so, do you recall which of his books
impressed you? Thanks.


From wine-expos.com:
Doug Frost is a Kansas City based wines and spirits writer and lecturer who
writes for numerous regional and national publications. His first book,
Uncorking Wine was released in 1996 to critical acclaim and his newest book,
On Wine, a Master Sommelier and Master of Wine Tells All, is recently
published by Rizzoli International. He holds the titles of both Master of Wine
and Master Sommelier, only the second person in history to have achieved both
these remarkable distinctions. Eleven years later, there are only three people
in the entire world with both titles. According to USA Today, "Frost likely
knows as much as anyone in the world about how to make, market, serve and
identify wines."

Tom S wrote:
Although I was tempted to comment on the recent, heavily politically
oriented thread, I have restrained myself for once. (well, except for that
last)

I'm sipping a nicely aged bottle of 1988 Inglenook "Reserve Cask" Cabernet
($6US), and ignoring the Democratic National Convention that's straining to
burst forth from my de-energized TV. :^)

I plan to ignore the Republican Convention too - albeit over a different
bottle of wine. Please wake me up in time for the Crush (which appears to
be early this year), and then let me sleep until it's time to vote...

Tom S


It's very easy to ignore US politics when you are in the UK with a nice
bottle of Cote Rotie 1996... Am I alone? Can't think of anything UK
specific to exclude anyone either.

Lloyd

Tom S wrote:
Although I was tempted to comment on the recent, heavily politically
oriented thread, I have restrained myself for once. (well, except for that
last)

I'm sipping a nicely aged bottle of 1988 Inglenook "Reserve Cask" Cabernet
($6US), and ignoring the Democratic National Convention that's straining to
burst forth from my de-energized TV. :^)

I plan to ignore the Republican Convention too - albeit over a different
bottle of wine. Please wake me up in time for the Crush (which appears to
be early this year), and then let me sleep until it's time to vote...

Tom S


It's very easy to ignore US politics when you are in the UK with a nice
bottle of Cote Rotie 1996... Am I alone? Can't think of anything UK
specific to exclude anyone either.

Lloyd

Ed Rasimus wrote:

(One bank of the river favors CS and the other leans to merlot,
but I never know whether that is looking upstream or downstream
and am too lazy to look it up this AM.)

Left and right bank *always* refers to where the water goes:
downstream. Left bank (Médoc, Graves) is predominantly Cabernet;
right bank and "between-the-banks" (Entre-deux-Mers) is Merlot
country.

M.

Ed Rasimus wrote:

(One bank of the river favors CS and the other leans to merlot,
but I never know whether that is looking upstream or downstream
and am too lazy to look it up this AM.)

Left and right bank *always* refers to where the water goes:
downstream. Left bank (Médoc, Graves) is predominantly Cabernet;
right bank and "between-the-banks" (Entre-deux-Mers) is Merlot
country.

M.