In a local online wine group I manage, we've seen some different (and
strong) opinions lately as to what a "reasonable" or "fair" restaurant
markup for wine bottles should be.

The purpose of this message is to take this group’s quantitative pulse
on the issue.

The question is not whether a restaurant should be able to charge, in
a legal or regulatory sense, whatever it pleases for the products it
sells. I assume those of you answering this message live in a
quasi-free-market economy, so the premise is that the price should be
whatever the restaurant wants.

The inquiry here is more personal; it focuses on *your* subjective
perspective as a wine consumer. So, please take the time to think
about and answer the following question:

What is the *maximum* restaurant wine bottle mark-up from retail
prices that you consider to be reasonable or fair?

I started a poll on the subject, located at
http://home.earthlink.net/~leobueno/wine-markup.htm
(see sample format of poll and question below)

Please visit the poll if you are inclined to like those sorts of
things, or express your view in text here alt.food.wine, or better
yet, do both!.

Thanks.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Restaurant Wine Markup

What is the *maximum* restaurant wine bottle mark-up from retail
prices that you consider to be reasonable or fair?

50%
100%
150%
200%
250%
300%
350%
400%
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--
=================================================
Do you like wine? Do you live in South Florida?
Visit the MIAMI WINE TASTERS group at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/miamiWINE
=================================================

Here is the link to the poll's results

http://vote.sparklit.com/poll.spark/834355


On Sun, 09 May 2004 16:10:31 GMT, Leo Bueno
wrote:


In a local online wine group I manage, we've seen some different (and
strong) opinions lately as to what a "reasonable" or "fair" restaurant
markup for wine bottles should be.

The purpose of this message is to take this group’s quantitative pulse
on the issue.

The question is not whether a restaurant should be able to charge, in
a legal or regulatory sense, whatever it pleases for the products it
sells. I assume those of you answering this message live in a
quasi-free-market economy, so the premise is that the price should be
whatever the restaurant wants.

The inquiry here is more personal; it focuses on *your* subjective
perspective as a wine consumer. So, please take the time to think
about and answer the following question:

What is the *maximum* restaurant wine bottle mark-up from retail
prices that you consider to be reasonable or fair?

I started a poll on the subject, located at
http://home.earthlink.net/~leobueno/wine-markup.htm
(see sample format of poll and question below)

Please visit the poll if you are inclined to like those sorts of
things, or express your view in text here alt.food.wine, or better
yet, do both!.

Thanks.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Restaurant Wine Markup

What is the *maximum* restaurant wine bottle mark-up from retail
prices that you consider to be reasonable or fair?

50%
100%
150%
200%
250%
300%
350%
400%
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--
=================================================
Do you like wine? Do you live in South Florida?
Visit the MIAMI WINE TASTERS group at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/miamiWINE
=================================================

On Sun, 09 May 2004 16:10:31 GMT, Leo Bueno
wrote:

(snip)

What is the *maximum* restaurant wine bottle mark-up from retail
prices that you consider to be reasonable or fair?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

One question I've always had about this is why the mark-up should be
in the form of a percentage of the retail price. If the mark-up is
100%, a wine that retails for $20 in the store costs $40 in the
restaurant and one that retails at $75 costs $150. In the first case
the restaurant makes $20, in the second they make $75, but what have
they done differently? The restuarant likely bought both wines from a
wine distributor, stored them for a period of time varying from zero
to years, and presented them to you. Maybe the $75/bottle wine was
presented with a bit more fanfare -- or maybe not. Maybe the $75
bottle spent more time in the restaurant's wine celler -- or maybe
not. In any case, what did the restuarant do differently that was
worth $55?

A similar issue is tipping on the basis of a percentage of the check.
Is it more difficult for the waiter to serve the caviar than the
shrimp cocktail? There, I think it's the shrimp cocktail waiter that
gets short-changed more than the caviar waiter being over-tipped, but
it feels a bit odd to tip $50 on a $25 check which is what we should
probably do.



Regards,


Kent Feiler
www.KentFeiler.com

Kent Feiler wrote in
:

On Sun, 09 May 2004 16:10:31 GMT, Leo Bueno
wrote:

(snip)

What is the *maximum* restaurant wine bottle mark-up from retail
prices that you consider to be reasonable or fair?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

One question I've always had about this is why the mark-up should be
in the form of a percentage of the retail price. If the mark-up is
100%, a wine that retails for $20 in the store costs $40 in the
restaurant and one that retails at $75 costs $150. In the first case
the restaurant makes $20, in the second they make $75,


But then the mark up is usually on a sliding scale with 300% on the low end
wines going down to something close to 150% for the upper ends. In your
example an $8 bottle would go for $24 a $20 for more like $50 and the $75
for a little over a hundred.

In ,
Kent Feiler typed:

One question I've always had about this is why the mark-up
should be
in the form of a percentage of the retail price. If the
mark-up is
100%, a wine that retails for $20 in the store costs $40 in the
restaurant and one that retails at $75 costs $150. In the first
case
the restaurant makes $20, in the second they make $75, but what
have
they done differently? The restuarant likely bought both wines
from a
wine distributor, stored them for a period of time varying from
zero
to years, and presented them to you. Maybe the $75/bottle wine
was
presented with a bit more fanfare -- or maybe not. Maybe the
$75
bottle spent more time in the restaurant's wine celler -- or
maybe
not. In any case, what did the restuarant do differently that
was
worth $55?


The restaurant tied up a greater number of dollars in wine
inventory for the $75 bottle.

Tieing up money in inventory costs the restaurant more, and they
need to recoup that cost.

--
Ken Blake
Please reply to the newsgroup

Leo Bueno wrote:

What is the *maximum* restaurant wine bottle mark-up from retail
prices that you consider to be reasonable or fair?

50%
100%
150%
200%
250%
300%
350%
400%

Unfortunately, Leo, my preference is for a markup that is a fixed fee rather than a
percentage of the purchase price. However, as an upper limit, I'd say 150% come closest
for me. I tend to feel a sense of outrage when I see a 200% markup on a restaurant wine
list.

Mark Lipton

"Leo Bueno" wrote in message
news
What is the *maximum* restaurant wine bottle mark-up from retail
prices that you consider to be reasonable or fair?

50% is plenty for a wine that's available currently in wine shops. Much
beyond that begins to make me angry.

Tom S

Here in Chile it's usually about 100% markup. I think it's way too much.

At those markups I rarely drink wine at restaurants, and when I do, I
usually go only for good values.




"Leo Bueno" wrote in message
news

In a local online wine group I manage, we've seen some different (and
strong) opinions lately as to what a "reasonable" or "fair" restaurant
markup for wine bottles should be.

The purpose of this message is to take this group's quantitative pulse
on the issue.

The question is not whether a restaurant should be able to charge, in
a legal or regulatory sense, whatever it pleases for the products it
sells. I assume those of you answering this message live in a
quasi-free-market economy, so the premise is that the price should be
whatever the restaurant wants.

The inquiry here is more personal; it focuses on *your* subjective
perspective as a wine consumer. So, please take the time to think
about and answer the following question:

What is the *maximum* restaurant wine bottle mark-up from retail
prices that you consider to be reasonable or fair?

I started a poll on the subject, located at
http://home.earthlink.net/~leobueno/wine-markup.htm
(see sample format of poll and question below)

Please visit the poll if you are inclined to like those sorts of
things, or express your view in text here alt.food.wine, or better
yet, do both!.

Thanks.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------
Restaurant Wine Markup

What is the *maximum* restaurant wine bottle mark-up from retail
prices that you consider to be reasonable or fair?

50%
100%
150%
200%
250%
300%
350%
400%
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------


--
=================================================
Do you like wine? Do you live in South Florida?
Visit the MIAMI WINE TASTERS group at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/miamiWINE
=================================================

"Tom S" wrote in message
om...

"Leo Bueno" wrote in message
news
What is the *maximum* restaurant wine bottle mark-up from retail
prices that you consider to be reasonable or fair?

50% is plenty for a wine that's available currently in wine shops. Much
beyond that begins to make me angry.

Tom S



I find that many places have almost a constant, rather than proportional,
markup. $10 bottles become $30, but $50 wines might well be only $70.

Kieran

On Sun, 9 May 2004 22:57:20 -0400, "Indirecto"
wrote:

Here in Chile it's usually about 100% markup. I think it's way too much.

Here in France a restaurant with 200% markup is considered very
reasonable. Usually markup is 300% or more.

Mike


Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail

"Kieran Dyke" wrote in message news:409f0667@news1...
I find that many places have almost a constant, rather than proportional,
markup. $10 bottles become $30, but $50 wines might well be only $70.

Ah! Grading "on the curve", eh?

Makes more sense to me. It doesn't cost any more to wash the stemware or
pull the cork for a cheap bottle than for a $$$$ one.

This all presumes that current vintages are being offered. Aged wines
obviously must be more expensive - and may be _very_ much moreso.

Tom S

I'd love to see 50% over retail, but one seldom sees that on East Coast.

I never quibble at 2X retail. I don't like 2.5X, but sometimes one pays. I
generally refuse to pay 3X. The exception might be at the low-end, I've paid
$24 for a good quality Muscadet that one can find for $8 at a restaurant known
for its shellfish; I did so happily (they used good stemware, and there are
costs involved in that).

Ideally a restaurant would lower the markup on an upper-end bottle, but it's
seldom the case. Mostly inconsequential to me- I could probably count the times
I've ordered a bottle over say $80 on my hands. In most good restaurants
there's some good wines available in the $30-60 range. It's easier for me to
enjoy a $40 wine that I know my local store carries for $20, than a $150 wine
that it carries for $75.
Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

Dale Williams wrote:
I'd love to see 50% over retail, but one seldom sees that on East Coast.

I never quibble at 2X retail. I don't like 2.5X, but sometimes one pays. I
generally refuse to pay 3X. The exception might be at the low-end, I've paid
$24 for a good quality Muscadet that one can find for $8 at a restaurant known
for its shellfish; I did so happily (they used good stemware, and there are
costs involved in that).

Ideally a restaurant would lower the markup on an upper-end bottle, but it's
seldom the case. Mostly inconsequential to me- I could probably count the times
I've ordered a bottle over say $80 on my hands. In most good restaurants
there's some good wines available in the $30-60 range. It's easier for me to
enjoy a $40 wine that I know my local store carries for $20, than a $150 wine
that it carries for $75.

Part of the problem for me is lack of sufficient knowledge.
Sure, sometimes I'll happen to see a bottle that I know, or two,
on a list; but in general I have to guess at what the start-price
might be, and then make a decision on buying. Not a problem if
there's a good wine waiter, but that's often not the case, alas.

[Thanks for the restaurant review, Dale. It's on the list for
maybe my anniversary in June, so I'll have to call/email pretty
soon!]

Ewan

That the real reason I canceled my trip to Spain and France. Wine was to
much at restaurants. :-)

Do they allow you to bring wine with you and if so what is corkage fees at
restaurants in France.

dick


"Mike Tommasi" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 9 May 2004 22:57:20 -0400, "Indirecto"
wrote:

Here in Chile it's usually about 100% markup. I think it's way too much.

Here in France a restaurant with 200% markup is considered very
reasonable. Usually markup is 300% or more.

Mike


Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail

"Leo Bueno" wrote in message
news


What is the *maximum* restaurant wine bottle mark-up from retail
prices that you consider to be reasonable or fair?


By retail, are you referring to the price I would pay buying direct from the
winery or the street price I'd pay at a wine shop/liquor store (generally
20-35% less than the full price from the winery)? For restaurant prices, my
price limit is double the winery price (or roughly triple the street price).
I will go that high for wines that are difficult to find or generally
unavailable in stores. But it grates on me to find common wines at double
the winery price. (And don't get me started on wine-by-the-glass pricing!)
I've been passing on wine in restaurants more often or bringing a bottle and
paying the corkage.