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  #1 (permalink)   Report Post  
Vino
 
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Default Sacramental Wine

I took a look at a bottle of the wine that my church (Episcopal) uses
for communion wine. It is purchased from a local Roman Catholic supply
store. The label has a logo which incorporates the words "Mont La
Salle Altar Wine". Everything else on the label is simple text in
various size fonts, all in upper case with one exception as noted. It
reads:

Pure California
Tokay (in script letters with the largest font on the label)
Approved for sacramental use
Alcohol 18.0% by volume
Cellared and bottled by
Mont La Salle Altar Wine Company
Sanger, California

The color of the wine is similar to a tawny Port and it is sweet.
Anyone have a clue as to what this is? It is obviously a fortified
wine, perhaps made in a manner similar to the way a Port is made but
using some variety of white grapes. I suppose that, like Burgundy,
etc., there is no prohibition against using the word Tokay, but it's
kind of meaningless. Perhaps some coloring is also added.

I'll not include any tasting notes here.

Vino
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  #2 (permalink)   Report Post  
Pantheras
 
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Vino wrote:
> I took a look at a bottle of the wine that my church (Episcopal) uses
> for communion wine. It is purchased from a local Roman Catholic supply
> store. The label has a logo which incorporates the words "Mont La
> Salle Altar Wine". Everything else on the label is simple text in
> various size fonts, all in upper case with one exception as noted. It
> reads:
>
> Pure California
> Tokay (in script letters with the largest font on the label)
> Approved for sacramental use
> Alcohol 18.0% by volume
> Cellared and bottled by
> Mont La Salle Altar Wine Company
> Sanger, California
>
> The color of the wine is similar to a tawny Port and it is sweet.
> Anyone have a clue as to what this is? It is obviously a fortified
> wine, perhaps made in a manner similar to the way a Port is made but
> using some variety of white grapes. I suppose that, like Burgundy,
> etc., there is no prohibition against using the word Tokay, but it's
> kind of meaningless. Perhaps some coloring is also added.



That is very interesting indeed. The Christian Brothers produce a lot
of different wine under the Mont La Salle label with such names as
Burgundy, Chablis, Sauterne, Tokay and Port and it is sold out side
the US. I found a Canadian advertisement for it. However it is only
sold to clergy so I guess that exempts it from the naming rules.
Or does it?
The Christian Brothers are all around the world to I would assume that
they ship this to their own locations at least.
This is some of our good Central Valley bulk wine. Competes with
with Wild Irish Rose, Night Train and Thunderbird.

  #3 (permalink)   Report Post  
Ian Hoare
 
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Salut/Hi Vino,

le/on Sun, 09 May 2004 00:51:05 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

>store. The label has a logo which incorporates the words "Mont La
>Salle Altar Wine". Everything else on the label is simple text in
>various size fonts, all in upper case with one exception as noted. It
>reads:
>
>Pure California
>Tokay (in script letters with the largest font on the label)
>Approved for sacramental use
>Alcohol 18.0% by volume
>Cellared and bottled by
>Mont La Salle Altar Wine Company
>Sanger, California


>The color of the wine is similar to a tawny Port and it is sweet.
>Anyone have a clue as to what this is?


Factually? No idea. However it sounds very much like the liquids sold as
"Tokay" in the Rutherglen area of Australia, though some of these are very
agreeable as wine.

>etc., there is no prohibition against using the word Tokay, but it's
>kind of meaningless. Perhaps some coloring is also added.


Apart from the fact that it's yet another example of US names using European
area names as if they were generic, possibly not. It may not be illegal in
the USA, but I would argue that it ought to be. Just as I would argue that
it ought to be illegal (and probably is) in Europe to use the name "Napa
Valley" for - say - Zinfandel.

>I'll not include any tasting notes here.


Very sensible, as transubstantiationalists would probably regard it as
blasphemous! Actually, I think the blasphemy - if it be such - is more in
using a morally reprehensible name for something that is destined for a holy
purpose.
--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website
  #4 (permalink)   Report Post  
Pumbaa
 
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Any special requirements for Episcopal wine? I don't guess it has to be
Kosher! However could the wine just as well be Morgan David concord grape
or box wine and be OK for church?

Only beer is legal to purchase in the county where I live in Mississippi.
That why they have a wall and a border checkpoint at the next country which
has all the booze. This keeps our children free from the evil grape just as
well as it works for crack, cannabis, tobacco, condoms, and other various
and sundry moral temptations. So far the local Priest has not been busted
for bootlegging!

"Vino" > wrote in message
...
> I took a look at a bottle of the wine that my church (Episcopal) uses
> for communion wine. It is purchased from a local Roman Catholic supply
> store. The label has a logo which incorporates the words "Mont La
> Salle Altar Wine". Everything else on the label is simple text in
> various size fonts, all in upper case with one exception as noted. It
> reads: <snip>



  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
jcoulter
 
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Ian Hoare > wrote in
:


>
>>I'll not include any tasting notes here.

>
> Very sensible, as transubstantiationalists would probably regard it as
> blasphemous! Actually, I think the blasphemy - if it be such - is more
> in using a morally reprehensible name for something that is destined
> for a holy purpose.


Oh dear! that is a bit of a problem isn't it? Better to stick to lambasting
Christ's tears (Lacryma Christi) than any other more substantial portions.


  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
Cwdjrx _
 
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At one time in the US, "Tokay", "Port", "Sherry", and "Angelica" were
fortified wines made from just about any cheap grape available. Before
Thunderbird and such came along, the cheapest versions of the mentioned
wines were often associated with street bums, because they offered the
cheapest drunk available. The high sugar content even had a little food
value, although very unbalanced. There were a few drinkable wines with
the mentioned names made that sold at a higher price, but all of the
cheap, nasty wine sold under these names did not help sell the few
drinkable examples.

  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
Tom S
 
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"Ian Hoare" > wrote in message
...
> I would argue that
> it ought to be illegal (and probably is) in Europe to use the name "Napa
> Valley" for - say - Zinfandel.


??? Now you have confused me, Ian. Are you saying that someone in Europe
who produced Zinfandel there should not call it "Napa Valley" or "Napa
Valley Zinfandel"? Either is a bit unlikely I'd say. Do Europeans even
grow something sold as Zinfandel, or could that now be considered to be a
California proprietary name?

> >I'll not include any tasting notes here.

>
> Very sensible, as transubstantiationalists would probably regard it as
> blasphemous!


LOL! Good one. :^D

Actually, I think the blasphemy - if it be such - is more in
> using a morally reprehensible name for something that is destined for a

holy
> purpose.


Blasphemy requires deliberate intent to blaspheme, which is a very high
standard to obtain. I doubt that the average parish priest is at all aware
of the European sensitivity about use of their place names in such fashion,
so this doesn't count as blasphemy. Those who are (aware) probably consider
it a very venial matter indeed, and not at all relevant to whether wine
thusly labeled should be consecrated. The overriding consideration is
whether the wine in question _tastes_ good enough to be worthy of
consecration.

Tom S


  #8 (permalink)   Report Post  
Bill
 
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Tom S wrote:

> ??? Now you have confused me, Ian. Are you saying that someone in Europe
> who produced Zinfandel there should not call it "Napa Valley" or "Napa
> Valley Zinfandel"? Either is a bit unlikely I'd say. Do Europeans even
> grow something sold as Zinfandel, or could that now be considered to be a
> California proprietary name?


The Italians are producing a wine labeled Zinfandel that is exported
to the US. I have no idea if they are selling it in the EU. Maybe they
are competing with Gallo White Zinfandel which is sold in the EU.

  #9 (permalink)   Report Post  
Anders Tørneskog
 
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"Tom S" > skrev i melding
om...
>
> .. Do Europeans even
> grow something sold as Zinfandel, or could that now be considered to be a
> California proprietary name?
>

Zinfandel is a grape and as such could be grown anywhere. What should be
illegal is 'Napa' which is not anywhere in Europe.
Anders


  #10 (permalink)   Report Post  
Ian Hoare
 
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Salut/Hi Tom S,

le/on Sun, 09 May 2004 15:53:45 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

>
>"Ian Hoare" > wrote in message
.. .
>> I would argue that
>> it ought to be illegal (and probably is) in Europe to use the name "Napa
>> Valley" for - say - Zinfandel.

>
>??? Now you have confused me, Ian.


Sorry about that, Tom.

> Are you saying that someone in Europe who produced Zinfandel there should not call it "Napa Valley" or "Napa
>Valley Zinfandel"?


Primarily the former, because Napa Valley is a geographical entity in the
USA, and as such it should not be used as if it were a wine type. If someone
in Europe used clones of Californian Zin and made a good wine from it, I
don't really see that they should - or could - be prevented from calling it
Zinfandel.


> Either is a bit unlikely I'd say.


I'd certainly hope so, though calling a European Zin "Napa Valley" is
exactly parallel to calling an Alsace Pinot Gris "Tokay" or a Californian
Altar wine "Tokay" (extending the argument to Champagne, Burgundy, and all
the rest of the wines to which I've referred ad nauseam).

> Do Europeans even grow something sold as Zinfandel,


I believe so, though I've not seen it.

>Blasphemy requires deliberate intent to blaspheme, which is a very high
>standard to obtain.


Does it? I didn't know that. I wonder if that's the same everywhere.


--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website


  #11 (permalink)   Report Post  
Bill
 
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Anders Tørneskog wrote:
> "Tom S" > skrev i melding
> om...


>>.. Do Europeans even
>>grow something sold as Zinfandel, or could that now be considered to be a
>>California proprietary name?

>
> Zinfandel is a grape and as such could be grown anywhere. What should be
> illegal is 'Napa' which is not anywhere in Europe.
> Anders


I think the Italians have grapes that they call Primivito in the
vineyards but label the wine Zinfandel to market it in the US.
I was not talking about legalities just marketing.




  #12 (permalink)   Report Post  
pavane
 
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"Bill" > wrote in message
...
>
> I think the Italians have grapes that they call Primivito in the
> vineyards but label the wine Zinfandel to market it in the US.
> I was not talking about legalities just marketing.
>


When the US FDA allowed the interchangeability of "zinfandel"
and "primitivo" based on the DNA near-identicality of the two
grapes the Italians began legally to label what had been only
allowed to be called "primitivo" as "zinfandel" for importation
into the US.
There are now "Primitivo" wines from California, and "Zinfandel"
from Italy and (of course) Australia, to name just two of them.

pavane


  #13 (permalink)   Report Post  
Tom S
 
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"Ian Hoare" > wrote in message
...
> >Blasphemy requires deliberate intent to blaspheme, which is a very high
> >standard to obtain.

>
> Does it? I didn't know that. I wonder if that's the same everywhere.


Heh. Probably not in Moslem countries. Just look what they tried to do to
Salman Rushdie for merely writing a novel!

Tom S


  #14 (permalink)   Report Post  
Vino
 
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On Sun, 09 May 2004 15:41:51 +0200, Ian Hoare >
wrote:

>on Sun, 09 May 2004 00:51:05 GMT, Vino said:-


>>there is no prohibition against using the word Tokay, but it's
>>kind of meaningless.

>
>Apart from the fact that it's yet another example of US names using European
>area names as if they were generic, possibly not. It may not be illegal in
>the USA, but I would argue that it ought to be.

I'll not argue with you on this one.
>

Vino
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  #15 (permalink)   Report Post  
Vino
 
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On Sun, 09 May 2004 15:53:45 GMT, "Tom S" >
wrote:

>Blasphemy requires deliberate intent to blaspheme, which is a very high
>standard to obtain. I doubt that the average parish priest is at all aware
>of the European sensitivity about use of their place names in such fashion,
>so this doesn't count as blasphemy. Those who are (aware) probably consider
>it a very venial matter indeed, and not at all relevant to whether wine
>thusly labeled should be consecrated. The overriding consideration is
>whether the wine in question _tastes_ good enough to be worthy of
>consecration.
>

Reminds me of a comment made by an Episcopal priest regarding the
bread often served with the wine: "I never had any trouble believing
that it was the body of Christ. I just had trouble believing it was
bread".

Vino
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  #16 (permalink)   Report Post  
Vino
 
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On Sun, 9 May 2004 09:08:19 -0500, "Pumbaa"
> wrote:

>Any special requirements for Episcopal wine? I don't guess it has to be
>Kosher! However could the wine just as well be Morgan David concord grape
>or box wine and be OK for church?

AFAIK, any wine is OK. Which makes me wonder what the "approved for
sacramental use" means on the label I referred to in my original
posting. Approved by who? Remember, I'm talking about Episcopalians
purchasing wine from a Roman Catholic supply store.
>
>Only beer is legal to purchase in the county where I live in Mississippi.
>That why they have a wall and a border checkpoint at the next country which
>has all the booze. This keeps our children free from the evil grape just as
>well as it works for crack, cannabis, tobacco, condoms, and other various
>and sundry moral temptations. So far the local Priest has not been busted
>for bootlegging!

I grew up in Mississippi when the sale of any kind of alcoholic
beverage (except beer in some counties) was illegal. That didn't mean
that it was not available. It just meant that it cost more than it
would have otherwise. The whole arrangement made the bootleggers and
Baptist preachers happy because the former raked in the cash and the
latter could brag to their congregations about what they had
accomplished.

Do I detect a note of cynicism in your posting?

Vino
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  #17 (permalink)   Report Post  
Michael Pronay
 
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"Tom S" > wrote:

> Do Europeans even grow something sold as Zinfandel,


Yes. I have seen an Italian Zinfandel here in Austria (don't
remember name/producer, but it wasn't bad), and one Austrian
grower (Forstreiter in Krems) produced his first vintage in 2001
(rubbish, imnsho, he should stick to Riesling and Grüner Veltliner
where he's much better).

M.
  #18 (permalink)   Report Post  
Ian Hoare
 
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Salut/Hi Vino,

le/on Mon, 10 May 2004 02:53:58 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

>>on Sun, 09 May 2004 00:51:05 GMT, Vino said:-

>
>>>there is no prohibition against using the word Tokay, but it's
>>>kind of meaningless.


>>Apart from the fact that it's yet another example of US names using European
>>area names as if they were generic, possibly not. It may not be illegal in
>>the USA, but I would argue that it ought to be.


>I'll not argue with you on this one.


I know you don't, Vino, and in fact I think most of us on this NG are in
more or less complete agreement. We may not agree 100% on the level to which
consumers are deceived (or if they are at all), we may not agree 100% on
whether _today_ winemakers (ab)using geographical names do so with
deliberate intent to deceive, but I think that pretty well everyone agrees
that it would be better if wines were sold under their _own_ merits.
--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website
  #19 (permalink)   Report Post  
Ian Hoare
 
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Salut/Hi Michael Pronay,

le/on 10 May 2004 06:03:38 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

>"Tom S" > wrote:
>
>> Do Europeans even grow something sold as Zinfandel,

>
>Yes. I have seen an Italian Zinfandel here in Austria (don't
>remember name/producer, but it wasn't bad),


Thanks for confirming that.

> and one Austrian grower (Forstreiter in Krems) produced his first vintage in 2001
>(rubbish, imnsho, he should stick to Riesling and Grüner Veltliner where he's much better).


Chuckle. From what I've seen of the grape, it needs a LOT of sun, so perhaps
even in Krems, the grape is underexposed. Of course it could also be a
simple matter of young vines too.

--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website
  #20 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dale Williams
 
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Default Saveur mag, Amarone (was Sacramental Wine)


There's actually a sidebar in this month's Saveur about the primary wine the
Vatican uses (though they apparently accept gifts from winemakers worldwide).
Sorry I don't recall exact details (Betsy's mag, not mine).

Actually this issue is wine-oriented. Articles on the Veneto, Rhone (visit to
the Chaves), Sinskey, & Rioja; plus many smaller articles. A good essay on RP &
points.

I don't think I convinced Betsy to do Gerard Chave's recipe for calves feet
salad, or the Riojan stew with lamb offal. But she is going to try M. Chave's
stuffed Bresse chicken (we'll use the best bird we can find,as Bresse birds are
unavailable). The recipe she wanted to try was beef braised in Amarone. It uses
an entire bottle of Amarone, when I explained the cost she relented. I might
suggest she make with a bottle of Masi Campofiorin, what do you guys think?
Dale

Dale Williams
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  #22 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dale Williams
 
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>What? I wasn't invited anyway?
>
>Well in that case I'll tell you a little secret, I would use the
>Campofiorin. Oh and in case the invitation got lost in the mail, I would
>*probably* not mind terribly. lol


Consider yourself invited. Get yourself to NYC area, I'll give Betsy the bottle
of Campofiorin (and get some real Amarone to drink with it).
Dale

Dale Williams
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  #23 (permalink)   Report Post  
Emery Davis
 
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On Mon, 10 May 2004 02:01:04 GMT, "Tom S" > said:

]
] "Ian Hoare" > wrote in message
] ...
] > >Blasphemy requires deliberate intent to blaspheme, which is a very high
] > >standard to obtain.
] >
] > Does it? I didn't know that. I wonder if that's the same everywhere.
]
] Heh. Probably not in Moslem countries. Just look what they tried to do to
] Salman Rushdie for merely writing a novel!
]

Can't speak for any religion, but Rushdie certainly would have known that
there was blasphemy in "Satanic Verses." As an educated writer, he certainly
would have read the Koran, and no more is necessary. (I think to the careful
reader of any of his novels, his islamic education is evident enough.)

-E
--
Emery Davis
You can reply to
by removing the well known companies
  #25 (permalink)   Report Post  
Mark Lipton
 
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Default Saveur mag, Amarone (was Sacramental Wine)

Ed Rasimus wrote:


>>Consider yourself invited. Get yourself to NYC area, I'll give Betsy the bottle
>>of Campofiorin (and get some real Amarone to drink with it).


> Not to make this an "invite yourself" party, and since I've got an
> unreasonable aversion to NYC (probably related to my Chicago
> upbringing), let me, from my mountain-view aerie in Colorado suggest
> that maybe a Zenato Ripassa would sub very adequately for the Amarone
> to baste the bird.


I'll agree with you both: I think that either the Campofiorin or the
Ripassa would do admirably in place of the Amarone. Even one of the
'monster' Zins would probably work. And feel free to invite me, too,
Dale! ;-)

Mark Lipton


  #26 (permalink)   Report Post  
Tom S
 
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Default Saveur mag, Amarone (was Sacramental Wine)


"Dale Williams" > wrote in message
...
> The recipe she wanted to try was beef braised in Amarone. It uses
> an entire bottle of Amarone, when I explained the cost she relented.


Hi, Dale -
I don't know if you have a Trader Joe's in your area, but they have recently
carried a decent (if not spectacular) Amarone for $10US. That shouldn't be
out of reach for Betsy's extravaganza.

Tom S


  #27 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dale Williams
 
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Default Saveur mag, Amarone (was Sacramental Wine)

>
>Hi, Dale -
>I don't know if you have a Trader Joe's in your area, but they have recently
>carried a decent (if not spectacular) Amarone for $10US. That shouldn't be
>out of reach for Betsy's extravaganza.
>


Currently, grocery stores in NY can't sell wine. Wine is sold in liquor/wine
stores. There's a movement afoot to change that. So I have a couple of Trader
Joe's nearby, but they don't sell wine. Curiously, though they did when they
started, they don't sell beer, either.

The only grocery-ish store that sells wine (and liquor) in my area to my
knowledge is Stew Leonard's. Which operates the store as a separate business
(separate entrance and all). Another NY law prohibits liquor stores from having
multiple outlets, which is why my local Costco doesn't sell wine (I think the
LI one has an attached wine store, like Stew Leonards).

It looks like a Ripasso (Zenato or Masi Campofiorin) is way to braise the beef.


Dale

Dale Williams
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  #28 (permalink)   Report Post  
Ed Rasimus
 
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Default Saveur mag, Amarone (was Sacramental Wine)

On Mon, 10 May 2004 12:34:17 -0500, Mark Lipton >
wrote:

>Ed Rasimus wrote:


>> Not to make this an "invite yourself" party, and since I've got an
>> unreasonable aversion to NYC (probably related to my Chicago
>> upbringing), let me, from my mountain-view aerie in Colorado suggest
>> that maybe a Zenato Ripassa would sub very adequately for the Amarone
>> to baste the bird.

>
>I'll agree with you both: I think that either the Campofiorin or the
>Ripassa would do admirably in place of the Amarone. Even one of the
>'monster' Zins would probably work. And feel free to invite me, too,
>Dale! ;-)
>


The "monster" Zin, unfortunately would set the budget back almost as
much as a mediocre Amarone--priced Turley's lately? And, you wouldn't
really get the raisin taste--speaking of which, why not a glassful of
box wine and a handful of macerated Sun-kist....?




Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8
  #29 (permalink)   Report Post  
jcoulter
 
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Default Saveur mag, Amarone (was Sacramental Wine)

Ed Rasimus > wrote in
:



>
> The "monster" Zin, unfortunately would set the budget back almost as
> much as a mediocre Amarone--priced Turley's lately? And, you wouldn't
> really get the raisin taste--speaking of which, why not a glassful of
> box wine and a handful of macerated Sun-kist....?


You are kidding? Right? the taste of Amarone has nothing in common with Sun
Kist other than the perception that they may be dried similarly.

  #30 (permalink)   Report Post  
Bill
 
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Vino wrote:

> AFAIK, any wine is OK. Which makes me wonder what the "approved for
> sacramental use" means on the label I referred to in my original
> posting. Approved by who? Remember, I'm talking about Episcopalians
> purchasing wine from a Roman Catholic supply store.


I think we have stumbled into a real quagmire here. The Christian
Brothers are a world wide organization and one would certainly
assume that these wines are marketed to Catholic churches around
the world. These wines are approved by the Catholic church for
communion. Some one must bless them. Many years ago (~40) there
was an article in the now defunct Les Amis du Vin magazine about
sacramental wines. It described such attributes as the wine had
to be semi-sweet so people would not make a bad face when they
drank it. They work hard at figuring out how to have red wine that
does not stain permanently. They also use white wine for weddings
to make sure the brides dress does not get stained. At the time
the article was written there was no US winery approved. The Christian
Brothers winery in Napa valley was not approved to make sacramental
wine back then. I think it all came from France in 1965.

(most Protestant churches where I grew up use Welches sacramental wines,
namely pure grape juice)




  #31 (permalink)   Report Post  
Tom S
 
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"Bill" > wrote in message
...
> I think we have stumbled into a real quagmire here. The Christian
> Brothers are a world wide organization and one would certainly
> assume that these wines are marketed to Catholic churches around
> the world. These wines are approved by the Catholic church for
> communion. Some one must bless them.


I'm not 100% positive about this, but AFAIK _any_ parish priest can bless
wine. Not quite the same as with kosher wine, which has to be produced
under rabbinical supervision using only kosher cellar supplies.

Many years ago (~40) there
> was an article in the now defunct Les Amis du Vin magazine about
> sacramental wines. It described such attributes as the wine had
> to be semi-sweet so people would not make a bad face when they
> drank it. They work hard at figuring out how to have red wine that
> does not stain permanently.


That's old hat. The rubrics were revised to permit the use of white wine
for communion, as well as crystal glassware (rather than the traditional
gold lined chalice). The switch to white wine was a strictly practical
matter: red wine stains are too difficult to remove from the linens.

> (most Protestant churches where I grew up use Welches sacramental wines,
> namely pure grape juice)


I've always thought the protestants were cheated a bit on that score for the
sake of temperance. Jesus didn't turn water into grape juice at Cana, and
you can be darn sure He and the apostles didn't drink unfermented grape
juice at the Last Supper!

Tom S


  #32 (permalink)   Report Post  
Andrew L Drumm
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sacramental Wine

I'll pitch in with what I know. I'll also ignore the word Tokay on the
label - I'll leave that to Ian who has bitten beautifully, and if he reads
on he'll bite again.

In Wagga Wagga, Australia, I know the bloke who supplies the local diocese
with sacramental wine, sourced from a producer of fortified wines. The wine
he supplies is labelled sweet sherry (I know what Ian will say about that!).
It is a fortified wine produced in the oloroso style, namely white neutral
grapes that are partly fermented then fortified to 18%alc/vol, and aged for
some years in various sizes of oak (probably quite large vats).

Exactly what is involved in getting it blessed for sacramental use remains
unclear, but he did tell me that he had to get the blessing and approval of
the bishop, and a whole load of paperwork was involved. From what he said, I
don't believe there is anything special about the wine itself, though I joke
and tell the cellar hands that if we were making it they wouldn't be allowed
to swear or think unclean thoughts while they were handling the wine. I
suspect it is more about ensuring constancy of the source, and that it is
clean, neutral, and a good price.

Cheers,

Andrew
"Vino" > wrote in message
...
> I took a look at a bottle of the wine that my church (Episcopal) uses
> for communion wine. It is purchased from a local Roman Catholic supply
> store. The label has a logo which incorporates the words "Mont La
> Salle Altar Wine". Everything else on the label is simple text in
> various size fonts, all in upper case with one exception as noted. It
> reads:
>
> Pure California
> Tokay (in script letters with the largest font on the label)
> Approved for sacramental use
> Alcohol 18.0% by volume
> Cellared and bottled by
> Mont La Salle Altar Wine Company
> Sanger, California
>
> The color of the wine is similar to a tawny Port and it is sweet.
> Anyone have a clue as to what this is? It is obviously a fortified
> wine, perhaps made in a manner similar to the way a Port is made but
> using some variety of white grapes. I suppose that, like Burgundy,
> etc., there is no prohibition against using the word Tokay, but it's
> kind of meaningless. Perhaps some coloring is also added.
>
> I'll not include any tasting notes here.
>
> Vino
> To reply, add "x" between
> letters and numbers of
> e-mail address.



  #33 (permalink)   Report Post  
gerald
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sacramental Wine

When I do sacramental wine, I greatly prefer Sangrantino to American
Tokay, which is probably closer to Central Valley Thompson Seedless
than it is any European Tokay.
  #34 (permalink)   Report Post  
Michael Pronay
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sacramental Wine

Ian Hoare > wrote:

>>Yes. I have seen an Italian Zinfandel here in Austria (don't
>>remember name/producer, but it wasn't bad),


> Thanks for confirming that.


And I succeeded finding it:

2000 Sinfarosa Zinfandel, Primitivo di Manduria DOC, Academia dei
Racemi (ADR, Manduria)

My notes:

Academia dei Racemi (ADR taucht oft auf!) Hübsche Frucht mit
deutlicher Vanille (Barriques? Chips? Wer weiß?); saubere Frucht,
schöne Balance, sehr ordentlich, 90/100.

>> and one Austrian grower (Forstreiter in Krems) produced his
>> first vintage in 2001 (rubbish, imnsho, he should stick to
>> Riesling and Grüner Veltliner where he's much better).


> Chuckle. From what I've seen of the grape, it needs a LOT of
> sun, so perhaps even in Krems, the grape is underexposed. Of
> course it could also be a simple matter of young vines too.


No, 2001 was not the best of years, and Krems isn't the sunniest
or warmest spot in Austria. And, fwiw, the first vintage of a
vineyard (called "Jungfernlese" or "virgin harvest") usually even
gives *higher* must readings that the subsequent.

M.
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