A Food and drink forum. FoodBanter.com

Welcome to FoodBanter.com forums which provide access to the finest food and drink related newsgroups.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most newsgroup discussions and access our other FREE features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics to the food related newsgroups, communicate privately with other FoodBanter.com members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact support.

Go Back   Home » FoodBanter.com forum » Drinking » Wine
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Wine (alt.food.wine) Devoted to the discussion of wine and wine-related topics. A place to read and comment about wines, wine and food matching, storage systems, wine paraphernalia, etc. In general, any topic related to wine is valid fodder for the group.

How Great Age Worthy California Wines Were Made



 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 09-04-2004, 03:01 AM
Cwdjrx _
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How Great Age Worthy California Wines Were Made


I have been cellaring fine California wines since the 70's and long ago
drank up my mistakes. Now at 25 - 30 years, some have proved to be very
age worthy and are outstanding. Keep in mind that many wines from the
70's were very ripe "monsters". Some have matured very well, and others
had too much tannin and long ago dried out.

You can find minute technical details about how such wines were made in
the book "Great Winemakers of California" by Robert Benson, Capra Press,
Santa Barbara 1977. The book likely is out of print, so you may have to
go to a library to find it. Benson interviews many of the top wine
makers, and gives their replies to his questions. A few of the wine
makers were Martin Ray, Paul Draper, Andre Tchelistcheff, Warren
Winiarski, Mike Grgich, Donn Chappellet, Jerry Luper, Joseph Heitz,
Robert Mondavi, Richard Arrowood , etc. Many of these give details about
if they add acid or not and what kind, if they use malo-lactic
fermentation or not, what kind of yeast they use, what kind of wood they
use, when and how they use SO2 or sulfites, and on and own. You will
find a great variety of procedures. Some never add acid, some do only in
hot years, etc. Some areas such as Napa seem more likely to need acid
than some other areas.

I have pulled 3 remarkable California wines from the cellar to read the
labels. The Freemark Abbey Edelwein Gold 1976 Johannisberg Riesling
perhaps is the greatest Riesling ever made in California with no end in
sight. It is about the richness of a fine German TBA. Residual Sugar is
16.4% and alcohol 10.5%. The sugar to acid balance is about the same as
in a great Rheingau TBA. The Joseph Phelps Napa Valley Selected Late
Harvest Johannisberger Riesling 1978 has 30% by weight of residual
sugar, is 10% alcohol by volume, and had 48% by weight of sugar at
harvest. Yet the acid to sweet balance is perfect. The Callaway 1977
Temecula "Sweet Nancy" Late Harvest Chenin Blanc has 10.7% by volume of
alcohol, 9% residual sugar, and 0.9% total acidity by volume. It does
not compare with the best late harvest Chenin Blancs from the Loire, but
there is no doubt that it is a fine example of a late harvest Chenin
Blanc that ages very well. I will not bother to detail the fine Monte
Bello Cabernet Sauvignon from Ridge during this era. Most have lasted
well, and several are outstanding and still will keep. I mention but a
few examples. There are many others.

The famous California microclimates in areas near the coast produce
radically different growing conditions. It is nearly as if you had
Bordeaux in one area, Burgundy a short distance away, and Morocco just a
few miles further on. Those cold Pacific waters, valley orientations,
and wind directions are responsible for this wild climate variation.
Thus it is no surprise that very different techniques can be best for
different regions.

  #2 (permalink)  
Old 09-04-2004, 05:29 AM
Cwdjrx _
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How Great Age Worthy California Wines Were Made

The 3 very rich wines mentioned all owe their richness to Botrytis
cinerea. This is a fungus that attacks grapes. It also is known as
pourriture noble in France and Edelf=E4ule in German speaking countries.
It should strile when the grapes are ripe but still have plenty of acid.
If it strikes too early you just get rotten grapes. Besides the rich
California wines mentioned, it is responsible for many Auslese,
Beerenauslese(BA), and Trockenbeerenauslese(TBA) wines in German
speaking countries; Sauternes, Monbazillac, and some rich Loire wines in
France; Tokaji Aszu, Tokaji Aszu Essencia, and Tokaji Essencia in
Hungary, to name a few. Here is part of how Alexis Lichine describes it
in one of his encyclopedias.

______________________________________

"The fungus penetrates the skin of the fruit without breaking it , and
thus without exposing the pulp to air. If all is in order, the grape
begins to wither and become desiccated, and there is a corresponding
concentration of the juice. "

"The climatic conditions must be such that as the grapes mature moisture
must be present in the air to allow the fungus to grow, alternating with
periods of dry weather to cause the water in the grapes to evaporate and
so keep the mold from growing too fast. Yet if the temperature rises too
high, the fungus will be killed."

______________________________________

This type of wine can be made fairly often in some areas and rarely or
never in others. The 3 examples I give from California may appear very
rich, but the legendary Tokaji Essencia can be even richer and contain
well over 50% residual sugar by weight and only a very few percent
alcohol. As the sugar content of the must becomes extremely high, it
will hardlly ferment at all, may require special yeast strains, and may
reach only a very few percent alcohol after up to a few years of
fermentation.

The types of grapes used, the climate, and taste preferences determine
how this type of wine is made. A Sauternes usually has much less
residual sugar than a German Riesling TBA, but much more alcohol. An
attempt is made to strike the best balance between acidity, sweetness,
and alcohol for the fruit at hand.



  #3 (permalink)  
Old 09-04-2004, 06:37 AM
Dana Myers
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How Great Age Worthy California Wines Were Made

Cwdjrx _ wrote:

I have been cellaring fine California wines since the 70's and long ago
drank up my mistakes. Now at 25 - 30 years, some have proved to be very
age worthy and are outstanding. Keep in mind that many wines from the
70's were very ripe "monsters". Some have matured very well, and others
had too much tannin and long ago dried out.

You can find minute technical details about how such wines were made in
the book "Great Winemakers of California" by Robert Benson, Capra Press,
Santa Barbara 1977. The book likely is out of print, so you may have to
go to a library to find it.


You can always try Alibris:

http://www.alibris.com/search/search...hes=49&qsort=r


Dana
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 09-04-2004, 07:02 AM
Cwdjrx _
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How Great Age Worthy California Wines Were Made

Dana Myers wrote: "You can always try Alibris:"


Thanks for that URL Dana. Anyone interested in the book should be able
to obtain a used copy at a very reasonable price.

  #6 (permalink)  
Old 09-04-2004, 03:27 PM
Mark Lipton
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How Great Age Worthy California Wines Were Made

Dale Williams wrote:


Nice post, thanks. Is there more than one '76 Freemark Abbey Edelwein? I have a
375 ordered at Premier Cru (last one they had) , but it didn't say Gold on
site. If it is indeed the finest Riesling made in CA, it might have to be
served to an Englishman living in France when he visits US.


Peter Mayle?? :P

Mark Lipton
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 09-04-2004, 03:50 PM
Ian Hoare
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How Great Age Worthy California Wines Were Made

Salut/Hi Dale Williams,

le/on 09 Apr 2004 12:51:11 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

sight. It is about the richness of a fine German TBA. Residual Sugar is
16.4% and alcohol 10.5%. The sugar to acid balance is about the same as
in a great Rheingau TBA.


Nice post, thanks. Is there more than one '76 Freemark Abbey Edelwein? I have a
375 ordered at Premier Cru (last one they had) , but it didn't say Gold on
site. If it is indeed the finest Riesling made in CA, it might have to be
served to an Englishman living in France when he visits US.


I didn't see this!

--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 09-04-2004, 04:16 PM
Cwdjrx _
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How Great Age Worthy California Wines Were Made

  #9 (permalink)  
Old 09-04-2004, 07:24 PM
Cwdjrx _
Usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How Great Age Worthy California Wines Were Made

Sorry about the html sig post. I use this on most NG posts and email
that allow html so that I can be contacted through the domain without
having the address appear. The button takes you to a form page that
allows posting as pop mail on the domain.

Concerning Edelwein, the 73 is what put this style of wine on the map,
although it is not nearly as rich as the mentioned 76 gold. It is now
rather old tasting, but still quite drinkable in an old Riesling sort of
way. I have a little of the 78 Edelwein and do not know if any 78
Edelwein gold was made or not. I do have half bottles of the 1991
Edelwein Gold. It has 21.2% residual sugar. I will have to try a bottle
before long.

 




Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Where is your BBQ made? mg Cooking Equipment 7 26-04-2004 07:23 PM
List of Malaysian Restaurants ($Revision: 0.25 $). Willie Lim Restaurants 1 29-12-2003 07:05 AM
Pork Rib help Steve Calvin General Cooking 13 11-12-2003 09:57 PM

fitness forum |
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.0.0 RC6
Copyright ©2004-2008 FoodBanter.com, part of the NewsgroupBanter project.
The comments are property of their posters.
Debt Help - Mortgage - Cheap Car Insurance - Home Loan - Wikipedia