On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 20:41:04 GMT, John Gunn
wrote:
it really is
one indivudual that behaved badly. This individual is one who tends to
consistently engage in anti-american bantor.

Who are you referring to?

Mike

Salut/Hi John Gunn,

le/on Sun, 05 Oct 2003 20:41:04 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

In fairness, Dimitri, I find that a number of your posts have a certain
"certainty" about them that I think tends to make you an easy target. I
know that it has bothered me in some earlier threads.

I'd not describe the phrases

"Being in Italy perhaps you do not realize that."

"peanut gallery"

"How nice of you to speak for the entire audience of this newsgroup and
decide whether they needed clarification or not."

as have a "certain certainty", but more like deliberate abrasiveness. If he
can't stand the heat, he shouldn't go into the kitchen. He started the bad
tempered rudeness, now he's crying foul when he gets it back.

I think if you go back and look at the notes posted in the entire thread (which I just did) you'll find that it really is
one individual that behaved badly.

I suppose the finger is pointing at me.

This individual is one who tends to consistently engage in anti-american bantor.

Meaning phrases like

"And even for an American, comparing Venice FL with the city of the Doges
and scene of Monteverdi's greatest hour is going a touch far."

I suppose. Yes, I tease Americans for being parochial as much as I tease
the French and British for it. If you re-read my contributions over the
years, you will find I'm far MORE critical of winemaking in France, for
example, than I am of America. Long before you came on the scene here, I
vigorously attacked a good friend of mine - Christian Callec - for making
anti-american remarks, for example. But really, John, I do feel that to
regard my comments as

Just because one person behaves badly

behaving badly. For months - until I killfiled him - I read anti-French
comments from Dick Neidich. Is that reaction to be construed as being
anti-American too? I am not anti any nation, but I AM passionately opposed
to parochialism and chauvinism, wherever it is demonstrated. I don't like
it here in France where I am perpetually patronised by the French for being
British (with the implication that no one from the UK can cook or knows
about wine), and I don't like it "here" in afw, when ANYONE (Australians,
New Zealanders, Americans, Austrians, French or Spanish) seeks to denigrate
other nations or their wines or their people. I would say that such
behaviour is far WORSE than my reaction to it. If Ed had replied jovially
to Michael Tomassi's original comment, instead of abrasively justifying
himself, I'd not have entered the thread.

This is my last post on this topic.
--
All the Best
Ian Hoare

Sometimes oi just sits and thinks
Sometimes oi just sits.

(D. Gerasimatos) wrote in
:





Dimitri


I screwed up, Dimitri caught me. I corrected, Let's drop it.


And just for the record, Paris is in Idaho!

Lets please try to correct your statement. For the most part my poor
behavior was really the month of February 2002. Please try not to overstate
my bad behavior. Most was meant to be humorous.

My statements were not sensitive and I have since ceased. For months my
posts have been on topic and not anti France.

For the record my purchases have not declined on French Bordeaux, Burgs or
Champagne...other than the fact with kids in college I spend less per bottle
and shop around.

My cellars are French, Euro, I have 2 units in addition to a true cellar.

I have not boycotted French Women...I love the accents...but I stay away
from them cause my wife would kill me.

I still like French Pastry...but cannot eat cause I am diabetic.

I love French Fries even though they are not really French, and refuse to
call them Freedom Fries. But not matter what name they go by I cannot eat
them as for health reasons.

I think France hiring Woody Allen to get tourism back was stupid since he is
fairly disliked by most Americans(I think he is funny as hell Btw).

I think American-French relations are strained and it will be a problem for
a long time.

The next time I think of going to Paris...it will not be Paris, Texas
either.

Ian, you need to get over my statements from the past. Even though you will
not be reading this since as you constantly like to say I am killfiled. You
get a pleasure from bringing that up. I think it is obnoxious but perhaps
that is part of a different issue.



"Ian Hoare" wrote in message
...
Salut/Hi John Gunn,

le/on Sun, 05 Oct 2003 20:41:04 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

In fairness, Dimitri, I find that a number of your posts have a certain
"certainty" about them that I think tends to make you an easy target. I
know that it has bothered me in some earlier threads.

I'd not describe the phrases

"Being in Italy perhaps you do not realize that."

"peanut gallery"

"How nice of you to speak for the entire audience of this newsgroup and
decide whether they needed clarification or not."

as have a "certain certainty", but more like deliberate abrasiveness. If
he
can't stand the heat, he shouldn't go into the kitchen. He started the bad
tempered rudeness, now he's crying foul when he gets it back.

I think if you go back and look at the notes posted in the entire thread
(which I just did) you'll find that it really is
one individual that behaved badly.

I suppose the finger is pointing at me.

This individual is one who tends to consistently engage in anti-american
bantor.

Meaning phrases like

"And even for an American, comparing Venice FL with the city of the Doges
and scene of Monteverdi's greatest hour is going a touch far."

I suppose. Yes, I tease Americans for being parochial as much as I tease
the French and British for it. If you re-read my contributions over the
years, you will find I'm far MORE critical of winemaking in France, for
example, than I am of America. Long before you came on the scene here, I
vigorously attacked a good friend of mine - Christian Callec - for making
anti-american remarks, for example. But really, John, I do feel that to
regard my comments as

Just because one person behaves badly

behaving badly. For months - until I killfiled him - I read anti-French
comments from Dick Neidich. Is that reaction to be construed as being
anti-American too? I am not anti any nation, but I AM passionately opposed
to parochialism and chauvinism, wherever it is demonstrated. I don't like
it here in France where I am perpetually patronised by the French for
being
British (with the implication that no one from the UK can cook or knows
about wine), and I don't like it "here" in afw, when ANYONE (Australians,
New Zealanders, Americans, Austrians, French or Spanish) seeks to
denigrate
other nations or their wines or their people. I would say that such
behaviour is far WORSE than my reaction to it. If Ed had replied jovially
to Michael Tomassi's original comment, instead of abrasively justifying
himself, I'd not have entered the thread.

This is my last post on this topic.
--
All the Best
Ian Hoare

Sometimes oi just sits and thinks
Sometimes oi just sits.

"Ian Hoare" wrote in message
...

.....
I suppose the finger is pointing at me.
.....

No, Ian, there is no finger worth mention and there is certainly
no anti-Americanism rampant in this thread. All we have
is a gratuitously dumb comment about qualifying one of the
major cities in the world to ensure it is not confused with
some local burgs. Following that inanity for whatever reason
the aptly named "dick" began yelling for apologies and
miscellaneous other nonsense. Then, finding no sympathy,
he did the Usenet equivalent of screaming "fire" in a theatre,
by claiming prejudice and bigotry on the part of those who
were not coddling his little mind. Just a weekend of silliness
on their parts, but it doubtless kept them off of the streets.

pavane

There was no screaming and you example is incorrect. This is an issue of
mannerly behavior.

That is all.

It a stranger was to drive in front of your business and ask directions to
Carolwood, you might ask them, The Town, The Street, The Avenue...for
clarification.

That is all this person did, and for such the thread is now 46 posts deep
for clarity and the debate of if asking is anti european. Or demonstrates
anti american behavior to suggest there can be more than one Venice.

I truly think that your thoughts are somewhat dictated on where you live.
That if a person in Portland Oregon said he was headed to Washington for the
weekend he likely means Washington State. If a person in Richmond Va says he
is going to Washington for a couple days he likely means DC.

Why is it so hard for some to be less than rude and have given the poster
that requested clarity without all the crap and attitude that went with it.

I do beleive he is due an apology from those that pushed on this thread
making it more than it is. And Pavane...in no way is that the same as
yelling fire in a theater. One actually does damage to the public good and
can cause harm. Mine was to create an atmosphere of tolerance. You
continue to demonstate poor behavior and I hope others can see your attempts
to flame at a fire.

"pavane" wrote in message
. ..

"Ian Hoare" wrote in message
...

.....
I suppose the finger is pointing at me.
.....

No, Ian, there is no finger worth mention and there is certainly
no anti-Americanism rampant in this thread. All we have
is a gratuitously dumb comment about qualifying one of the
major cities in the world to ensure it is not confused with
some local burgs. Following that inanity for whatever reason
the aptly named "dick" began yelling for apologies and
miscellaneous other nonsense. Then, finding no sympathy,
he did the Usenet equivalent of screaming "fire" in a theatre,
by claiming prejudice and bigotry on the part of those who
were not coddling his little mind. Just a weekend of silliness
on their parts, but it doubtless kept them off of the streets.

pavane

Basta(enough) you all!!!!
Somebody has to cease the current cycle of recrimination, you all sound
willing but can't resist a final volley, oops correction/clarification. Its
very disconcerting to read a thread which has little to do with wine but
plenty to do with arcane debaters points. Its deja-vu all over again.


--
Joe "Beppe" Rosenberg
"dick" wrote in message
.net...
There was no screaming and you example is incorrect. This is an issue of
mannerly behavior.

That is all.

It a stranger was to drive in front of your business and ask directions to
Carolwood, you might ask them, The Town, The Street, The Avenue...for
clarification.

That is all this person did, and for such the thread is now 46 posts deep
for clarity and the debate of if asking is anti european. Or demonstrates
anti american behavior to suggest there can be more than one Venice.

I truly think that your thoughts are somewhat dictated on where you live.
That if a person in Portland Oregon said he was headed to Washington for
the
weekend he likely means Washington State. If a person in Richmond Va says
he
is going to Washington for a couple days he likely means DC.

Why is it so hard for some to be less than rude and have given the poster
that requested clarity without all the crap and attitude that went with
it.

I do beleive he is due an apology from those that pushed on this thread
making it more than it is. And Pavane...in no way is that the same as
yelling fire in a theater. One actually does damage to the public good
and
can cause harm. Mine was to create an atmosphere of tolerance. You
continue to demonstate poor behavior and I hope others can see your
attempts
to flame at a fire.

"pavane" wrote in message
. ..

"Ian Hoare" wrote in message
...

.....
I suppose the finger is pointing at me.
.....

No, Ian, there is no finger worth mention and there is certainly
no anti-Americanism rampant in this thread. All we have
is a gratuitously dumb comment about qualifying one of the
major cities in the world to ensure it is not confused with
some local burgs. Following that inanity for whatever reason
the aptly named "dick" began yelling for apologies and
miscellaneous other nonsense. Then, finding no sympathy,
he did the Usenet equivalent of screaming "fire" in a theatre,
by claiming prejudice and bigotry on the part of those who
were not coddling his little mind. Just a weekend of silliness
on their parts, but it doubtless kept them off of the streets.

pavane

"D. Gerasimatos" wrote in message


It's okay. We haven't heard of lots of towns in Europe either. Funny,
though, considering we Americans are always the ones being bashed for
lacking knowledge of geography. Most Americans will have heard of at
least one of them, if not both.

Thanks God for not having invented 'intellectual rights' in the american
interpretion of this term before giving a lot of towns names. :-)


Regards
Jan
(sorry - couldn't resist - wil not persevere in this thread)

"dick" wrote in message
.net...

......
And Pavane...in no way is that the same as
yelling fire in a theater. One actually does damage to the public good
and
can cause harm. Mine was to create an atmosphere of tolerance.
......

Yes, we can see how well you did. Tolerance. Indeed.

bye

pavane

"Joe Beppe Rosenberg" wrote in message
...
.....
Basta(enough) you all!!!!
Somebody has to cease the current cycle of recrimination, you all sound
willing but can't resist a final volley, oops correction/clarification.
Its
very disconcerting to read a thread which has little to do with wine but
plenty to do with arcane debaters points. Its deja-vu all over again.
.....

Agree. Too much about far too little.

Pace

pavane

Yes, tolerance for someone asking for clarity. Yes.
"pavane" wrote in message
. ..

"dick" wrote in message
.net...

......
And Pavane...in no way is that the same as
yelling fire in a theater. One actually does damage to the public good
and
can cause harm. Mine was to create an atmosphere of tolerance.
......

Yes, we can see how well you did. Tolerance. Indeed.

bye

pavane

No, Ian, there is no finger worth mention and there is certainly
no anti-Americanism rampant in this thread.

As an American, I would agree with Pavane and I read these posts with a sigh
and a shrug but I've never felt any kind of anti-American bias from Ian or any
other regular for that matter.
Bi!!

Nor did I. Furthermore I never hinted that anyone did.

dick


"RV WRLee" wrote in message
...
No, Ian, there is no finger worth mention and there is certainly
no anti-Americanism rampant in this thread.

As an American, I would agree with Pavane and I read these posts with a
sigh
and a shrug but I've never felt any kind of anti-American bias from Ian or
any
other regular for that matter.
Bi!!

In article ,
pavane wrote:

No, Ian, there is no finger worth mention and there is certainly
no anti-Americanism rampant in this thread. All we have
is a gratuitously dumb comment about qualifying one of the
major cities in the world to ensure it is not confused with
some local burgs.


Gratuitiously dumb? You have such a way with words. Major city or not,
there are other cities with the same name. If you like to think of them
as some "local burgs" then fine, but you are only displaying your own
ignorance by doing so.


Dimitri

In article ,
Ian Hoare wrote:

I'd not describe the phrases

"Being in Italy perhaps you do not realize that."

"peanut gallery"

"How nice of you to speak for the entire audience of this newsgroup and
decide whether they needed clarification or not."

as have a "certain certainty", but more like deliberate abrasiveness. If he
can't stand the heat, he shouldn't go into the kitchen. He started the bad
tempered rudeness, now he's crying foul when he gets it back.



Oh, I am abrasive when I am attacked. However, I wish for you to explain
to me why rudeness to me was called for based on my first response, which
was not rude or abrasive in the slightest. I did not start the "bad
tempered rudeness" and I challenge you to back up that claim.


Dimitri