I'd come across several of them.
Example:
1) Andre Pink Champagne California
2) Cook's Brut Champagne
3) Korbel Brut
4) Piper Sonoma Brut
What's the latest wine law or agreement?
Thanks
Ray

On Mar 18, 11:19*am, "Raymond" wrote:
I'd come across several of them.
Example:
1) Andre Pink Champagne California
2) Cook's Brut Champagne
3) Korbel Brut
4) Piper Sonoma Brut
What's the latest wine law or agreement?
Thanks
Ray

No, it's my understanding that champagne comes only from France. It's
known by other names in other regions (i.e., "cava" in Spain).

On Mar 18, 12:19�pm, "Raymond" wrote:
I'd come across several of them.
Example:
1) Andre Pink Champagne California
2) Cook's Brut Champagne
3) Korbel Brut
4) Piper Sonoma Brut
What's the latest wine law or agreement?
Thanks
Ray

I believe the ATF's successor (can't remember their designation)
allows grandfathered use of "semi-generic" terms such as Champagne,
Chablis, Chianti, etc domestically. They are not supposed to be
exported, and I believe a load of Andre was dramatically destroyed in
the EU last year.

Does Piper Sonoma really say Champagne? I'd be very surprised. I
thought the only holdouts were industrial crap like Korbel, Cooks,
Andre.

Brut of course is a non-geographic designation, and I have never heard
of complaints about that usage.

"Kamakazee" wrote in message
...
On Mar 18, 11:19 am, "Raymond" wrote:
I'd come across several of them.
Example:
1) Andre Pink Champagne California
2) Cook's Brut Champagne
3) Korbel Brut
4) Piper Sonoma Brut
What's the latest wine law or agreement?
Thanks
Ray

No, it's my understanding that champagne comes only from France. It's
known by other names in other regions (i.e., "cava" in Spain).




More specifically, only from the Champagne region of france, other ferench
sparkling wines include;

a.. Crémant d'Alsace
a.. Crémant de Bordeaux
a.. Crémant de Bourgogne
a.. Crémant de Die
a.. Crémant du Jura
a.. Crémant de Limoux
a.. Crémant de Loire
a..
a.. pk

On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 00:19:59 +0800, "Raymond"
wrote:

What's the latest wine law or agreement?

Certain US brands are allowed to use protected names under the
so-called grandfather clause in the agreement with the EU. More detals
are he
http://www.practicalwinery.com/MayJu...ayJune07p5.htm
I believe that is the latest state of agreement, but am not 100% sure.

--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher

DaleW wrote in news:478a7712-b981-486f-a3a3-e67a79ebacb0
@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com:

On Mar 18, 12:19�pm, "Raymond" wrote:
I'd come across several of them.
Example:
1) Andre Pink Champagne California
2) Cook's Brut Champagne
3) Korbel Brut
4) Piper Sonoma Brut
What's the latest wine law or agreement?
Thanks
Ray

I believe the ATF's successor (can't remember their designation)
allows grandfathered use of "semi-generic" terms such as Champagne,
Chablis, Chianti, etc domestically. They are not supposed to be
exported, and I believe a load of Andre was dramatically destroyed in
the EU last year.

Does Piper Sonoma really say Champagne? I'd be very surprised. I
thought the only holdouts were industrial crap like Korbel, Cooks,
Andre.

Brut of course is a non-geographic designation, and I have never heard
of complaints about that usage.

As far as I can tell, it's still the ATF:
http://www.atf.gov/pub/alctob_pub/be...l/chapter5.pdf

Regarding the term CHAMPAGNE, it is in the SPARKLING WINE class, defined as
- Wine containing more than 0.392 grams per 100 ml carbon dioxide
resulting solely from secondary fermentation in a closed container
- "Sparkling Wine" is sparkling grape wine. Sparkling citrus,
fruit and agricultural wines must be further identified, e.g., "Sparkling
Peach Wine";

the Type being CHAMPAGNE, defined thus:
- "Grape wine refermented in glass containers of one gallon or less
capacity"
(I reckon they capitalize to avoid the Champagne/champagne disagreement)

And the Class CHAMPAGNE is footnoted as
- "Sufficient as class and type designation. Also, classified as a
SEMI-GENERIC name. (For information on semi-generic names, see 27 CFR
4.24.)
- A semi-generic named wine not from the origin indicated by the name,
e.g., "Champagne" not from France, must also be labeled with an appellation
of origin. (For appellation of origin requirements see 27 CFR 4.25a)"

I note that the Class ASTI SPUMANTE must be "made in Italy" so there are
some regional distinctions, and the Class IMITATION WINE gives me *the
fear*! O_o

d.

Oh, and Piper Sonoma's label says "Méthode Champenoise"; it looks like
*most* of the Champagne houses with California branches label their wines
as "California Sparkling Wine".

--
I didn't write it, but you can find the alt.food.wine FAQ he
http://winefaq.hostexcellence.com/

DaleW wrote on Tue, 18 Mar 2008 10:55:05 -0700 (PDT):

D On Mar 18, 12:19�pm, "Raymond" wrote:
?? I'd come across several of them.
?? Example:
?? 1) Andre Pink Champagne California
?? 2) Cook's Brut Champagne
?? 3) Korbel Brut
?? 4) Piper Sonoma Brut
?? What's the latest wine law or agreement?
?? Thanks
?? Ray

D I believe the ATF's successor (can't remember their
D designation) allows grandfathered use of "semi-generic"
D terms such as Champagne, Chablis, Chianti, etc domestically.
D They are not supposed to be exported, and I believe a load
D of Andre was dramatically destroyed in the EU last year.

D Does Piper Sonoma really say Champagne? I'd be very
D surprised. I thought the only holdouts were industrial crap
D like Korbel, Cooks, Andre.

Cooks and Andre are Charmat (tank) process wines and indicate
that on the label but Korbel is fermented in the bottle and is
not bad at all, IMHO. It is a pity that no-one will risk a
public blind tasting like the "Judgment of Paris." The next best
thing was Consumer Reports tasting of California products where
the wines produced by French-owned companies came out at the
top.

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

Raymond wrote:
I'd come across several of them.
Example:
1) Andre Pink Champagne California
2) Cook's Brut Champagne
3) Korbel Brut
4) Piper Sonoma Brut
What's the latest wine law or agreement?

There is no US law (yet) that prevents such labeling, but EU law forbids
it so such wine can't be imported to the EU. Recently, a shipment of
Andre "Champagne" was confiscated and destroyed in Belgium. Here's a
link to an article about it:

http://www.wein-plus.com/magazine/in...llnews&nr=4312

and here's the footage of the destruction, for those voyeurs among us:

http://www.flow-films.com/materials/champagne.wmv

Mark Lipton

--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.hostexcellence.com

On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 18:58:09 +0000, Steve Slatcher
wrote:

Certain US brands are allowed to use protected names under the
so-called grandfather clause in the agreement with the EU. More detals
are he
http://www.practicalwinery.com/MayJu...ayJune07p5.htm
I believe that is the latest state of agreement, but am not 100% sure.

Or for the actual agreement, and official explanation:
http://www.ttb.gov/agreements/us_ec_...greement.shtml

--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher

On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 16:13:40 -0500, Mark Lipton
wrote:

Raymond wrote:
I'd come across several of them.
Example:
1) Andre Pink Champagne California
2) Cook's Brut Champagne
3) Korbel Brut
4) Piper Sonoma Brut
What's the latest wine law or agreement?

There is no US law (yet) that prevents such labeling,

But it's forbidden for new brands, isn't it? Or did the US never
actually get around to passing the legislation they agreed to?

but EU law forbids it so such wine can't be imported to the EU.

Hmm, apparently so. I thought that if a label was legal in the US it
could be exported to the EU, but I forgot about all that "Champagne".

--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher

PK wrote:

More specifically, only from the Champagne region of france, other
ferench sparkling wines include;

It's absurd to me. French wine producers want to use the name Zinfandel
because of the huge success it's had in California and elsewhere in the
USA. Yet, they don't want the USA to use any names associated with
French wines.

Miles wrote:
PK wrote:

More specifically, only from the Champagne region of france, other
ferench sparkling wines include;


It's absurd to me. French wine producers want to use the name Zinfandel
because of the huge success it's had in California and elsewhere in the
USA. Yet, they don't want the USA to use any names associated with
French wines.

Untrue for several reasons, Miles. Firstly, I've yet to hear of a
French producer wanting to use the Zinfandel name: it's mostly been
Italians who work with Primitivo AFAICT. Secondly, it's a question of
apples and oranges: Chamapagne is a _place_ name, like Napa or Sonoma;
Zinfandel is a varietal name. Have the French ever complained about our
calling wine Pinot Noir or Syrah? No, they haven't. Have we ever
complained about wine from elsewhere labeled "Napa"? Just ask Fred
Franzia (then duck). It all boils down to deceptive labeling: wine
that's not from Champagne (or Napa) is deceptively labeled if it bears
that name. Zinfandel from wherever isn't deceptively labeled if what's
in the bottle is indeed Zinfandel. Get it?

Mark Lipton

--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.hostexcellence.com

Mike Tommasi wrote:

However, it is true that Italians using the name Zinfandel or
Californians using the name Primitivo could be accused of using
tactics that may be legal but are certainly not very "nice", let's
say it is not very sportsmanlike, I would go so far as to say it is
berlusconian...

LOL

The name Zinfandel may be a synonym of Primitivo - and officially
recognized by USA and EU - but its usage is definitely tied to a
place, to the rich history and culture of wine in America. As an
Italian I would never buy a wine from Puglia labelled Zinfandel.

Same for me.
--
Vilco
Mai guardare Trailer park Boys senza
qualcosa da bere a portata di mano

"James Silverton" wrote in message
news:w2VDj.6604$%Y2.4505@trnddc08...

Cooks and Andre are Charmat (tank) process wines and indicate that on the
label but Korbel is fermented in the bottle and is not bad at all, IMHO.
It is a pity that no-one will risk a public blind tasting like the
"Judgment of Paris." The next best thing was Consumer Reports tasting of
California products where the wines produced by French-owned companies
came out at the top.


some time ago (sorry I have not got a reference, but my source was a senior
WSET tutor) a "champagne" tasting in Paris was carried out in two stages:

1. all wines blind - a particular wine came top


2. all wines "open" - the same wine came bottom

the wine in question:

Nyetimber, produced in West Sussex, England
http://www.nyetimber.com/


more info on Nyetimber:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...28/nwine28.xml
http://www.thewinedoctor.com/tasting...lingwine.shtml

pk

"Mike Tommasi" wrote in message
...
PK wrote:
some time ago (sorry I have not got a reference, but my source was a
senior WSET tutor) a "champagne" tasting in Paris was carried out in two
stages:

1. all wines blind - a particular wine came top


2. all wines "open" - the same wine came bottom

the wine in question:

Nyetimber, produced in West Sussex, England
http://www.nyetimber.com/

If it's from England, it's probably terrible.


most are but Nyetimber is up there with the best champagnes -

pk