Tonight I was preparing Ian Hoare's salmis de cuisses de canard recipe,
which calls at one point for a bottle of red wine to be added to the
sauce. Browsing my local grocery for a decent cooking wine, I came across:

2005 Pepperwood Grove Pinot Noir ($5.99)
color: light garnet
nose: vibrant cherryish fruit, a hint of oak
palate: light fruit, good acid balance, clean finish

Recalling Dale's positive note on a previous vintage of this wine, I
decided to give it a flyer. Of course, one should never cook with a
wine you wouldn't drink, so a glass was consumed with a sandwich (my
dinner) for exploratory purposes only ;-) and a very nice surprise
awaited me. Whatever expectations I had for it were easily exceeded by
the this varietally correct, light and enjoyable Pinot Noir for the very
attractive price of $6. Most impressive was the judicious use of oak,
which was present enough to impart a roundness to the wine, but in the
background enough that the fruit was its primary characteristic. Quite
honestly, this was as appealing as many basic PNs twice its price.

Mark Lipton
--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.hostexcellence.com

On Feb 19, 12:53�am, Mark Lipton wrote:
Tonight I was preparing Ian Hoare's salmis de cuisses de canard recipe,
which calls at one point for a bottle of red wine to be added to the
sauce. �Browsing my local grocery for a decent cooking wine, I came across:

2005 Pepperwood Grove Pinot Noir ($5.99)
color: light garnet
nose: vibrant cherryish fruit, a hint of oak
palate: light fruit, good acid balance, clean finish

Recalling Dale's positive note on a previous vintage of this wine, I
decided to give it a flyer. �Of course, one should never cook with a
wine you wouldn't drink, so a glass was consumed with a sandwich (my
dinner) for exploratory purposes only ;-) and a very nice surprise
awaited me. �Whatever expectations I had for it were easily exceeded by
the this varietally correct, light and enjoyable Pinot Noir for the very
attractive price of $6. �Most impressive was the judicious use of oak,
which was present enough to impart a roundness to the wine, but in the
background enough that the fruit was its primary characteristic. �Quite
honestly, this was as appealing as many basic PNs twice its price.

Mark Lipton
--
alt.food.wine FAQ: �http://winefaq.hostexcellence.com

Was this from California? I had liked a previous vintage (and an
earlier vintage of their Syrah). But grabbed a bottle of the '06,
which turns out to be from Chile, thought it quite unattractive.

DaleW wrote:

Was this from California? I had liked a previous vintage (and an
earlier vintage of their Syrah). But grabbed a bottle of the '06,
which turns out to be from Chile, thought it quite unattractive.

I took a closer look at the label this morning when I tossed the bottle
out. It was an '06, not an '05 as I reported. And it was listed as
"prodotto di Pavia" which was confirmed on the back label, which
informed us that these grapes came from Lombardy, S. of Milan. So, it
was actually the best Italian Pinot Nero I've ever had (which tells you
how many Italian PNs I've had )

Mark Lipton
--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.hostexcellence.com

On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 09:27:42 -0500
Mark Lipton wrote:

DaleW wrote:

Was this from California? I had liked a previous vintage (and an
earlier vintage of their Syrah). But grabbed a bottle of the '06,
which turns out to be from Chile, thought it quite unattractive.

I took a closer look at the label this morning when I tossed the bottle
out. It was an '06, not an '05 as I reported. And it was listed as
"prodotto di Pavia" which was confirmed on the back label, which
informed us that these grapes came from Lombardy, S. of Milan. So, it
was actually the best Italian Pinot Nero I've ever had (which tells you
how many Italian PNs I've had )

OK guys, I'm confused. You're saying that a "Pepperwood Grove Pinot Noir"
might come from CA, Chile, Italy or perhaps Botswana if the grapes are
cheap? (OK the latter is probably tough to grow pinot.)

In what way is this form of labelling superior to telling us the region,
and field where it was grown?

-E

--
Emery Davis
You can reply to ecom
by removing the well known companies
Questions about wine? Visit http://winefaq.hostexcellence.com

Emery Davis wrote:

OK guys, I'm confused. You're saying that a "Pepperwood Grove Pinot Noir"
might come from CA, Chile, Italy or perhaps Botswana if the grapes are
cheap? (OK the latter is probably tough to grow pinot.)

In what way is this form of labelling superior to telling us the region,
and field where it was grown?

Huh?? Consider them a negoce, Emery, since that is what they
essentially are these days. Other examples are "Rex Goliath 47 lb
Rooster," a former QPR favorite that is now labeled as "product of
Chile," and the Ravenswood Vintner's Select Shiraz (S Aus). All that's
happened is the expansion of the typical negoce model to a global one.
Moreover, these wines are labelled with a region, or at least mine was:
it's a product of Pavia, right? ;-)

Mark Lipton

--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.hostexcellence.com

On Feb 19, 10:31�am, Emery Davis wrote:
On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 09:27:42 -0500

Mark Lipton wrote:
DaleW wrote:

Was this from California? I had liked a previous vintage (and an
earlier vintage of their Syrah). But grabbed a bottle of the '06,
which turns out to be from Chile, thought it quite unattractive.

I took a closer look at the label this morning when I tossed the bottle
out. �It was an '06, not an '05 as I reported. �And it was listed as
"prodotto di Pavia" which was confirmed on the back label, which
informed us that these grapes came from Lombardy, S. of Milan. �So, it
was actually the best Italian Pinot Nero I've ever had (which tells you
how many Italian PNs I've had )

OK guys, I'm confused. �You're saying that a "Pepperwood Grove Pinot Noir"
might come from CA, Chile, Italy or perhaps Botswana if the grapes are
cheap? �(OK the latter is probably tough to grow pinot.)

In what way is this form of labelling superior to telling us the region,
and field where it was grown? �

-E

--
Emery Davis
You can reply to
by removing the well known companies
Questions about wine? �Visithttp://winefaq.hostexcellence.com

Emery,
I'm not sure that anyone was claiming that this was a superior form of
labelling (and it does say where it is grown).

Here's my take on it:
Pepperwood Grove (not sure if this is an independent company or a part
of a conglomerate) started out as a label for what would be termed
negociant wine in France. They bought grapes and/or wine, Sold wines
in the $5-7 range, I've seen Zin, Syrah, PN. I thought a couple
vintages of the Syrah were pretty decent for a $6 price tag. Mostly
labelled "California". Basically the equivalent of Mouton-Cadet,
Sauvion Vouvray, Jaboulet Cotes du Rhone.

This segment of the market expanded a lot over last 4-5 years.Charles
Shaw, Rex Goliath, and quite a few others. I have nothing against
negociant wines, but in a competitive market probably harder to get
good grapes/juice, Because sources change, even more variability than
normal vintage.

Apparently as competition for CA grapes grew, PG started looking
outside US. So has added pinot for Italy (ok according to Mark) and
Chile (not so good according to me).

PG is a brand, plain and simple. Had a decent rep for its price point,
we'll see if they can keep it.

On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 08:33:35 -0800 (PST)
DaleW wrote:

On Feb 19, 10:31�am, Emery Davis wrote:
On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 09:27:42 -0500

Mark Lipton wrote:
DaleW wrote:

Was this from California? I had liked a previous vintage (and an
earlier vintage of their Syrah). But grabbed a bottle of the '06,
which turns out to be from Chile, thought it quite unattractive.

I took a closer look at the label this morning when I tossed the bottle
out. �It was an '06, not an '05 as I reported. �And it was listed as
"prodotto di Pavia" which was confirmed on the back label, which
informed us that these grapes came from Lombardy, S. of Milan. �So, it
was actually the best Italian Pinot Nero I've ever had (which tells you
how many Italian PNs I've had )

OK guys, I'm confused. �You're saying that a "Pepperwood Grove Pinot Noir"
might come from CA, Chile, Italy or perhaps Botswana if the grapes are
cheap? �(OK the latter is probably tough to grow pinot.)

In what way is this form of labelling superior to telling us the region,
and field where it was grown? �

-E

--
Emery Davis
You can reply to
by removing the well known companies
Questions about wine? �Visithttp://winefaq.hostexcellence.com

Emery,
I'm not sure that anyone was claiming that this was a superior form of
labelling (and it does say where it is grown).

Here's my take on it:
Pepperwood Grove (not sure if this is an independent company or a part
of a conglomerate) started out as a label for what would be termed
negociant wine in France. They bought grapes and/or wine, Sold wines
in the $5-7 range, I've seen Zin, Syrah, PN. I thought a couple
vintages of the Syrah were pretty decent for a $6 price tag. Mostly
labelled "California". Basically the equivalent of Mouton-Cadet,
Sauvion Vouvray, Jaboulet Cotes du Rhone.

This segment of the market expanded a lot over last 4-5 years.Charles
Shaw, Rex Goliath, and quite a few others. I have nothing against
negociant wines, but in a competitive market probably harder to get
good grapes/juice, Because sources change, even more variability than
normal vintage.

Apparently as competition for CA grapes grew, PG started looking
outside US. So has added pinot for Italy (ok according to Mark) and
Chile (not so good according to me).

PG is a brand, plain and simple. Had a decent rep for its price point,
we'll see if they can keep it.


Apparently I accused you fellows of espousing varietal labelling, such
of course was not my intent.

I was just amused by the fact that when we lived in CA we occasionally
bought PG and I considered it a good value for a CA wine. That was
the association in my mind, I probably wouldn't have looked beyond at
the fine print. I wasn't even aware this was a negoce wine although I
suppose the name might have given it away. I guess I was chuckling
because "we" often think varietal labelling is clearer, even though the
PG Pinot you buy today may come from a different continent than the
one you bought last year! (Yes I understood the PG identifies it).

-E

--
Emery Davis
You can reply to ecom
by removing the well known companies
Questions about wine? Visit http://winefaq.hostexcellence.com

Emery Davis wrote:


I was just amused by the fact that when we lived in CA we occasionally
bought PG and I considered it a good value for a CA wine. That was
the association in my mind, I probably wouldn't have looked beyond at
the fine print. I wasn't even aware this was a negoce wine although I
suppose the name might have given it away. I guess I was chuckling
because "we" often think varietal labelling is clearer, even though the
PG Pinot you buy today may come from a different continent than the
one you bought last year! (Yes I understood the PG identifies it).

Gotcha, Emery! For the record, PG, along with Smoking Loon and other,
lesser known labels, is a label of the Three Loose Screws division of
Don Sebastiani and Sons, a negoce firm. It seems to me that they're
doing an acceptably good job of trying to provide drinkable wines at
lower price points. If our economy goes further South than it already
has, these brands will probably see major growth.

What I don't know is what distinction, if any, Don and Sons
(http://www.donandsons.com) draws between e.g. Smoking Loon and PG.
Perhaps PG is now the "foreign" negoce label at that price point,
whereas Smoking Loon is domestic. I dunno.

Mark Lipton

--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.hostexcellence.com

In article ,
Emery Davis wrote:

On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 08:33:35 -0800 (PST)
DaleW wrote:

On Feb 19, 10:31�am, Emery Davis wrote:
On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 09:27:42 -0500

Mark Lipton wrote:
DaleW wrote:

Was this from California? I had liked a previous vintage (and an
earlier vintage of their Syrah). But grabbed a bottle of the '06,
which turns out to be from Chile, thought it quite unattractive.

I took a closer look at the label this morning when I tossed the bottle
out. �It was an '06, not an '05 as I reported. �And it was listed
as
"prodotto di Pavia" which was confirmed on the back label, which
informed us that these grapes came from Lombardy, S. of Milan. �So,
it
was actually the best Italian Pinot Nero I've ever had (which tells you
how many Italian PNs I've had )

OK guys, I'm confused. �You're saying that a "Pepperwood Grove Pinot
Noir"
might come from CA, Chile, Italy or perhaps Botswana if the grapes are
cheap? �(OK the latter is probably tough to grow pinot.)

In what way is this form of labelling superior to telling us the region,
and field where it was grown? �

-E

--
Emery Davis
You can reply to
by removing the well known companies
Questions about wine? �Visithttp://winefaq.hostexcellence.com

Emery,
I'm not sure that anyone was claiming that this was a superior form of
labelling (and it does say where it is grown).

Here's my take on it:
Pepperwood Grove (not sure if this is an independent company or a part
of a conglomerate) started out as a label for what would be termed
negociant wine in France. They bought grapes and/or wine, Sold wines
in the $5-7 range, I've seen Zin, Syrah, PN. I thought a couple
vintages of the Syrah were pretty decent for a $6 price tag. Mostly
labelled "California". Basically the equivalent of Mouton-Cadet,
Sauvion Vouvray, Jaboulet Cotes du Rhone.

This segment of the market expanded a lot over last 4-5 years.Charles
Shaw, Rex Goliath, and quite a few others. I have nothing against
negociant wines, but in a competitive market probably harder to get
good grapes/juice, Because sources change, even more variability than
normal vintage.

Apparently as competition for CA grapes grew, PG started looking
outside US. So has added pinot for Italy (ok according to Mark) and
Chile (not so good according to me).

PG is a brand, plain and simple. Had a decent rep for its price point,
we'll see if they can keep it.


Apparently I accused you fellows of espousing varietal labelling, such
of course was not my intent.

I was just amused by the fact that when we lived in CA we occasionally
bought PG and I considered it a good value for a CA wine. That was
the association in my mind, I probably wouldn't have looked beyond at
the fine print. I wasn't even aware this was a negoce wine although I
suppose the name might have given it away. I guess I was chuckling
because "we" often think varietal labelling is clearer, even though the
PG Pinot you buy today may come from a different continent than the
one you bought last year! (Yes I understood the PG identifies it).

-E

This may explain why Pepperwood Grove tastes different to me almost
every time. I had not payed attention to the sourcing. I will now but
for $6 wine that I mostly use for cooking and taste first it is hard to
go too wrong.

In article , Mark Lipton
wrote:

Emery Davis wrote:


I was just amused by the fact that when we lived in CA we occasionally
bought PG and I considered it a good value for a CA wine. That was
the association in my mind, I probably wouldn't have looked beyond at
the fine print. I wasn't even aware this was a negoce wine although I
suppose the name might have given it away. I guess I was chuckling
because "we" often think varietal labelling is clearer, even though the
PG Pinot you buy today may come from a different continent than the
one you bought last year! (Yes I understood the PG identifies it).

Gotcha, Emery! For the record, PG, along with Smoking Loon and other,
lesser known labels, is a label of the Three Loose Screws division of
Don Sebastiani and Sons, a negoce firm. It seems to me that they're
doing an acceptably good job of trying to provide drinkable wines at
lower price points. If our economy goes further South than it already
has, these brands will probably see major growth.

What I don't know is what distinction, if any, Don and Sons
(http://www.donandsons.com) draws between e.g. Smoking Loon and PG.
Perhaps PG is now the "foreign" negoce label at that price point,
whereas Smoking Loon is domestic. I dunno.

Mark Lipton

Except that I never like Smoking Loon even at its bargain price.

They make a decent Viognier. Very crisp, with a hint of oak but not too
much.
Very drinkable as a daily white go-to wine.

Kevin


"DaleW" wrote in message
...
On Feb 19, 10:31?am, Emery Davis wrote:
On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 09:27:42 -0500

Mark Lipton wrote:
DaleW wrote:

Was this from California? I had liked a previous vintage (and an
earlier vintage of their Syrah). But grabbed a bottle of the '06,
which turns out to be from Chile, thought it quite unattractive.

I took a closer look at the label this morning when I tossed the bottle
out. ?It was an '06, not an '05 as I reported. ?And it was listed as
"prodotto di Pavia" which was confirmed on the back label, which
informed us that these grapes came from Lombardy, S. of Milan. ?So, it
was actually the best Italian Pinot Nero I've ever had (which tells you
how many Italian PNs I've had )

OK guys, I'm confused. ?You're saying that a "Pepperwood Grove Pinot Noir"
might come from CA, Chile, Italy or perhaps Botswana if the grapes are
cheap? ?(OK the latter is probably tough to grow pinot.)

In what way is this form of labelling superior to telling us the region,
and field where it was grown? ?

-E

--
Emery Davis
You can reply to
by removing the well known companies
Questions about wine? ?Visithttp://winefaq.hostexcellence.com

Emery,
I'm not sure that anyone was claiming that this was a superior form of
labelling (and it does say where it is grown).

Here's my take on it:
Pepperwood Grove (not sure if this is an independent company or a part
of a conglomerate) started out as a label for what would be termed
negociant wine in France. They bought grapes and/or wine, Sold wines
in the $5-7 range, I've seen Zin, Syrah, PN. I thought a couple
vintages of the Syrah were pretty decent for a $6 price tag. Mostly
labelled "California". Basically the equivalent of Mouton-Cadet,
Sauvion Vouvray, Jaboulet Cotes du Rhone.

This segment of the market expanded a lot over last 4-5 years.Charles
Shaw, Rex Goliath, and quite a few others. I have nothing against
negociant wines, but in a competitive market probably harder to get
good grapes/juice, Because sources change, even more variability than
normal vintage.

Apparently as competition for CA grapes grew, PG started looking
outside US. So has added pinot for Italy (ok according to Mark) and
Chile (not so good according to me).

PG is a brand, plain and simple. Had a decent rep for its price point,
we'll see if they can keep it.