What follows is a first draft of a travel section on Oregon. All input,
comments, corrections and critcisms are welcome. Anyone who has lodging
recommendations, please let me know. Right now, we have none.

--------------- Begin C&P -------------------
3g. Oregon?
Most of the winemaking in Oregon takes place in the Willamette Valley,
starting just South of Portland and continuing southward to Salem, on
the western side of the Willamette River. This area is a cool-weather
growing area noted for its Pinot Noirs, but also for its Pinot Gris and
Chardonnay. The area is easily accessible by day trip from Portland,
with many of the wineries located near US 99W. Geographically, this
region can be divided into a “northern” area, centered around Dundee,
and a “southern” region in the Eola Hills near Salem and also around
McMinnville.

Wineries:

Archery Summit (Dundee) – Expensive, good Pinot Noirs; good tour, pricey
tasting
Argyle (Dundee) – Good sparkling wine and nice, light Pinot Noir
Belle Pente (Carlton) – Excellent single vineyard Pinot Noirs
Bergstrom (Newberg) -
Carlton Winemaker’s Studio (Carlton) – Taste the wines of many smaller
wineries
Chehalem (Dundee) – Excellent white wines and good single vyd Pinot Noirs
Cristom (Salem) – Excellent Pinot Noirs
Domaine Drouhin (Dundee) – Stylish Pinot Noir from American arm of
famous Burgundy negociants
Domaine Serene (Dundee) – A broad range of well-made wines in a fancy
setting
Lange (Dundee) – Excellent Pinot Gris, good Pinot Noir, great views
Patricia Green (Dundee) – Great Pinot Noir from a premier Oregon winemaker
Ponzi (Dundee) – Wine bar and bistro, good wines from Ponzi, too
Rex Hill (Newberg) – Good wines for reasonable price
St. Innocent (Salem) – Burgundian Pinot Noirs
Torii Mor (Dundee) -
WillaKenzie (Yamhill) – Good people, good wines
Witness Tree (Salem) – Excellent single vineyard Pinot Noirs

Lodging:

Dining:

Dundee Bistro – Good food at Ponzi’s wine bar in Dundee
Nick’s (McMinnville) – Good wine list
Joel Palmer House (Dayton) – Legendary for its mushrooms and great cooking
Red Hills Provincial Dining (Newberg) – French-influenced cooking, local
ingredients
Tina’s (Dundee) – Good local cuisine

Mark Lipton

Mark,

You might consider adding the Black Walnut Inn to the lodging list.
Expensive but really nice:

http://www.blackwalnut-inn.com/

The painted lady in Newberg should also be on your restaurant listing.

http://www.thepaintedladyrestaurant.com/

John





Mark Lipton wrote in
m:

What follows is a first draft of a travel section on Oregon. All
input, comments, corrections and critcisms are welcome. Anyone who
has lodging recommendations, please let me know. Right now, we have
none.

--------------- Begin C&P -------------------
3g. Oregon?
Most of the winemaking in Oregon takes place in the Willamette
Valley,
starting just South of Portland and continuing southward to Salem, on
the western side of the Willamette River. This area is a cool-weather
growing area noted for its Pinot Noirs, but also for its Pinot Gris
and Chardonnay. The area is easily accessible by day trip from
Portland, with many of the wineries located near US 99W.
Geographically, this region can be divided into a “northern” area,
centered around Dundee, and a “southern” region in the Eola Hills near
Salem and also around McMinnville.

Wineries:

Archery Summit (Dundee) – Expensive, good Pinot Noirs; good tour,
pricey tasting
Argyle (Dundee) – Good sparkling wine and nice, light Pinot Noir
Belle Pente (Carlton) – Excellent single vineyard Pinot Noirs
Bergstrom (Newberg) -
Carlton Winemaker’s Studio (Carlton) – Taste the wines of many smaller
wineries
Chehalem (Dundee) – Excellent white wines and good single vyd Pinot
Noirs Cristom (Salem) – Excellent Pinot Noirs
Domaine Drouhin (Dundee) – Stylish Pinot Noir from American arm of
famous Burgundy negociants
Domaine Serene (Dundee) – A broad range of well-made wines in a fancy
setting
Lange (Dundee) – Excellent Pinot Gris, good Pinot Noir, great views
Patricia Green (Dundee) – Great Pinot Noir from a premier Oregon
winemaker Ponzi (Dundee) – Wine bar and bistro, good wines from Ponzi,
too Rex Hill (Newberg) – Good wines for reasonable price
St. Innocent (Salem) – Burgundian Pinot Noirs
Torii Mor (Dundee) -
WillaKenzie (Yamhill) – Good people, good wines
Witness Tree (Salem) – Excellent single vineyard Pinot Noirs

Lodging:

Dining:

Dundee Bistro – Good food at Ponzi’s wine bar in Dundee
Nick’s (McMinnville) – Good wine list
Joel Palmer House (Dayton) – Legendary for its mushrooms and great
cooking Red Hills Provincial Dining (Newberg) – French-influenced
cooking, local ingredients
Tina’s (Dundee) – Good local cuisine

Mark Lipton

John Gunn wrote:
Mark,

You might consider adding the Black Walnut Inn to the lodging list.
Expensive but really nice:

http://www.blackwalnut-inn.com/

Well, since we don't have *any* lodging recommendations right now, it's
better than having itinerant wine lovers sleeping in their cars on the
side of 99W ;-)


The painted lady in Newberg should also be on your restaurant listing.

http://www.thepaintedladyrestaurant.com/

Thanks for the recommendations, John.

Mark Lipton
Feeder of the FAQ

Mark Lipton wrote in news:_
:


Well, since we don't have *any* lodging recommendations right now, it's
better than having itinerant wine lovers sleeping in their cars on the
side of 99W ;-)


Now there's a sight!

On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 23:33:03 -0400, Mark Lipton
wrote:

What follows is a first draft of a travel section on Oregon. All input,
comments, corrections and critcisms are welcome. Anyone who has lodging
recommendations, please let me know. Right now, we have none.

Mark:

Having recently finished a brief visit to the Willamette Valley, I can
relate some personal experiences that may or may not be useful to you.

With regard to your list of wineries, I have no comment other than to
wonder why certain wineries made the list and others didn't. There is
an excellent publication available from

http://www.willamettewines.com/brochure.shtml

that provides a map and lists all (or at least most) of the wineries
located in the Willamette Valley and provides the days and hours they
are open for tasting. Not all of them are open every day. Of course
this publication would not be much help if one wished to visit any of
the wineries in other parts of the state.

As for places to dine, I can personally endorse the Dundee Bistro and
Tina's. The latter is, I believe, closed on Sundays and for Monday
lunch. In any case reservations would seem to be in order since it was
full the (Monday) evening we were there. I can't vouch for any of the
other places on your list and would not recommend either of the other
places (which will go unnamed) we ate at while we were there.

As for lodging, we stayed at a Best Western in Newberg. Nothing fancy,
but perfectly satisfactory. Clean, comfortable, and with free high
speed internet access in every room.

One particularly interesting place we visited (based on a personal
recommendation) was Sakeone, a sake producer in Forest Grove, a small
town west of Portland, not far from Willakenzie Winery. It bills
itself as the only American-owned sake producer in the USA. I'm not
sure that I could ever develop a taste for sake, but we found the
visit more interesting than those to many of the wineries.

Vino

In article ,
Vino wrote:

On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 23:33:03 -0400, Mark Lipton
wrote:

What follows is a first draft of a travel section on Oregon. All input,
comments, corrections and critcisms are welcome. Anyone who has lodging
recommendations, please let me know. Right now, we have none.

Mark:

Having recently finished a brief visit to the Willamette Valley, I can
relate some personal experiences that may or may not be useful to you.

With regard to your list of wineries, I have no comment other than to
wonder why certain wineries made the list and others didn't. There is
an excellent publication available from

http://www.willamettewines.com/brochure.shtml

that provides a map and lists all (or at least most) of the wineries
located in the Willamette Valley and provides the days and hours they
are open for tasting. Not all of them are open every day. Of course
this publication would not be much help if one wished to visit any of
the wineries in other parts of the state.

As for places to dine, I can personally endorse the Dundee Bistro and
Tina's. The latter is, I believe, closed on Sundays and for Monday
lunch. In any case reservations would seem to be in order since it was
full the (Monday) evening we were there. I can't vouch for any of the
other places on your list and would not recommend either of the other
places (which will go unnamed) we ate at while we were there.

As for lodging, we stayed at a Best Western in Newberg. Nothing fancy,
but perfectly satisfactory. Clean, comfortable, and with free high
speed internet access in every room.

One particularly interesting place we visited (based on a personal
recommendation) was Sakeone, a sake producer in Forest Grove, a small
town west of Portland, not far from Willakenzie Winery. It bills
itself as the only American-owned sake producer in the USA. I'm not
sure that I could ever develop a taste for sake, but we found the
visit more interesting than those to many of the wineries.

Vino

Just one note, there are many Sake's made in the US. At least two are in
Napa and there is Momokawa, a Japanese company but made in the US.

Hi Mark,


Most of the winemaking in Oregon takes place in the Willamette Valley,

This is incorrect. While a lot of grape growing takes place throughout
the Willamette, there are now a dozen separate AVA's across Oregon. A
lot of growing happens south of the Willamette region, in the southern
portion of the state, including Rogue and Umpqua valleys. Lots of vines
are also grown along the Columbia Gorge (east of Portland) as well as
the Columbia Valley, which extends into Washington State.

Even more diverse is where winemaking takes place. Along the coast
(half a dozen wineries), southern Oregon (40-50), Willamette Valley
(150+), the Columbia Gorge (20-30), central and eastern Oregon (10-15),
etc. etc.


starting just South of Portland and continuing southward to Salem, on
the western side of the Willamette River. This area is a cool-weather
growing area noted for its Pinot Noirs, but also for its Pinot Gris and
Chardonnay. The area is easily accessible by day trip from Portland,
with many of the wineries located near US 99W.

Many of the Dundee-McMinnville area wineries are along 99W, but a lot
are located in the east valley as well, which is actually closer to
Portland.


Geographically, this
region can be divided into a "northern" area, centered around Dundee,
and a "southern" region in the Eola Hills near Salem and also around
McMinnville.

Dundee and McMinnville are ten miles apart, and I'd count both in the
same northern region. Just in the McMinnville area, there are about
five new AVAs within the past two years. Micro-AVAs if you will.

The Willamette is now host to about seven distinct AVA's (mostly along
the various hills). It is true the Willamette Valley is divided into
northern and southern areas, and Salem is more or less the dividing
line between the two. There are a lot of vineyards in the southern
valley (extending down to the hills around Eugene).



Wineries:

Archery Summit (Dundee) - Expensive, good Pinot Noirs; good tour, pricey
tasting
Argyle (Dundee) - Good sparkling wine and nice, light Pinot Noir
Belle Pente (Carlton) - Excellent single vineyard Pinot Noirs
Bergstrom (Newberg) -
Carlton Winemaker's Studio (Carlton) - Taste the wines of many smaller
wineries
Chehalem (Dundee) - Excellent white wines and good single vyd Pinot Noirs
Cristom (Salem) - Excellent Pinot Noirs
Domaine Drouhin (Dundee) - Stylish Pinot Noir from American arm of
famous Burgundy negociants
Domaine Serene (Dundee) - A broad range of well-made wines in a fancy
setting
Lange (Dundee) - Excellent Pinot Gris, good Pinot Noir, great views
Patricia Green (Dundee) - Great Pinot Noir from a premier Oregon winemaker
Ponzi (Dundee) - Wine bar and bistro, good wines from Ponzi, too
Rex Hill (Newberg) - Good wines for reasonable price
St. Innocent (Salem) - Burgundian Pinot Noirs
Torii Mor (Dundee) -
WillaKenzie (Yamhill) - Good people, good wines
Witness Tree (Salem) - Excellent single vineyard Pinot Noirs

I'd personally forego a list of wineries for this and any FAQ (at least
pertaining to Oregon), since the number of wineries changes each year.
Lots are added (50-60 in the past two years), and lots close down, are
renamed, or just go out of business. I recently updated the list of
wineries on OregonWines.com. That was four months ago, and since then
we've received a few inquiries about another six or seven wineries that
are either needing to be added, or had since closed down. Here's a link
from the most recent update.

http://www.oregonwines.com/winerysearch.php


Lodging:

Lots of the wineries' web sites include links to local lodging. I'd be
sure to include all the various McMenamins overnight spots, such as the
Grande Lodge in Forest Grove, Hotel Oregon in McMinnville, and
Edgefield Estate in east Portland (on the mouth of the Gorge). There
are literally dozens of B&B's and inns all across the map. Because this
list could be so extensive, it might be best to just link to some local
travel sites.


Dining:

Dundee Bistro - Good food at Ponzi's wine bar in Dundee
Nick's (McMinnville) - Good wine list
Joel Palmer House (Dayton) - Legendary for its mushrooms and great cooking
Red Hills Provincial Dining (Newberg) - French-influenced cooking, local
ingredients
Tina's (Dundee) - Good local cuisine

Same goes for this list. Always changing, hardly static.

In general, I think it's a good idea to include a detailed FAQ where
possible. The question is -- who is going to constantly update this
list? While the FAQ can serve as a good starter, and give a feel for
local regions, the fact remains it will need constant upkeep (something
few people consider unless they've personally dealt with the constant
strain of updating online content for years). To prevent this problem,
I'd recommend keeping generalized information and tips on the FAQ, but
avoid going into such granular details as to list lodging, restaurants,
wineries, etc. -- I would think it would better serve the reader of the
FAQ if a link to tourism web sites was listed. This way, you can
offload the pressure of having to personally maintain the list on the
FAQ, and still accomplish your goal of helping your FAQ reader find
current information about the regions they're interested in.

Please note, even though OregonWines.com is regarded as a very helpful
resource by our visitors, I don't care one way or another if it were to
be included on the FAQ list. We get plenty of traffic as it is. I
simply think in general, to link to these kinds of large/tourism sites
would be more beneficial to the average reader, in the long run. This
goes for regions in every country. USA, Europe, etc.

Cheers,

David

On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 10:37:06 -0400, Lawrence Leichtman
wrote:

In article ,
Vino wrote:

[snip]

One particularly interesting place we visited (based on a personal
recommendation) was Sakeone, a sake producer in Forest Grove, a small
town west of Portland, not far from Willakenzie Winery. It bills
itself as the only American-owned sake producer in the USA. I'm not
sure that I could ever develop a taste for sake, but we found the
visit more interesting than those to many of the wineries.

Vino

Just one note, there are many Sake's made in the US. At least two are in
Napa and there is Momokawa, a Japanese company but made in the US.

Sakeone actually sells Momakawa's line of sake as well as some others
they import. While there, I purchased a Momakawa poster of a stylized
Japanese warrior that I have since framed (the frame cost about ten
times what the poster cost) and plan to hang in my home office.

Vino

Vino wrote:

With regard to your list of wineries, I have no comment other than to
wonder why certain wineries made the list and others didn't. There is
an excellent publication available from

http://www.willamettewines.com/brochure.shtml

that provides a map and lists all (or at least most) of the wineries
located in the Willamette Valley and provides the days and hours they
are open for tasting. Not all of them are open every day. Of course
this publication would not be much help if one wished to visit any of
the wineries in other parts of the state.

In regard to your question, what I've done with all of the travel advice
is simply to cull all the recommendations I could find on alt.food.wine
from 2003-present (and include a few noteworthy 2002 recs) in the Google
archives. I adopted this approach to reduce any bias that my own
recommendations would introduce, while also placing some value on
personal experience to guide interested parties. IMO, a simple listing
(or linking) of all available wineries, restaurants, etc. is of limited
value as it says nothing about quality; at the same time, I don't want
to edit out recommendations I don't agree with because I can't
anticipate the tastes of the people who consult this advice.

As for places to dine, I can personally endorse the Dundee Bistro and
Tina's. The latter is, I believe, closed on Sundays and for Monday
lunch. In any case reservations would seem to be in order since it was
full the (Monday) evening we were there. I can't vouch for any of the
other places on your list and would not recommend either of the other
places (which will go unnamed) we ate at while we were there.

Thanks!


As for lodging, we stayed at a Best Western in Newberg. Nothing fancy,
but perfectly satisfactory. Clean, comfortable, and with free high
speed internet access in every room.

Ditto.

Mark Lipton

Dave wrote:
Most of the winemaking in Oregon takes place in the Willamette Valley,

This is incorrect. While a lot of grape growing takes place throughout
the Willamette, there are now a dozen separate AVA's across Oregon. A
lot of growing happens south of the Willamette region, in the southern
portion of the state, including Rogue and Umpqua valleys. Lots of vines
are also grown along the Columbia Gorge (east of Portland) as well as
the Columbia Valley, which extends into Washington State.

Even more diverse is where winemaking takes place. Along the coast
(half a dozen wineries), southern Oregon (40-50), Willamette Valley
(150+), the Columbia Gorge (20-30), central and eastern Oregon (10-15),
etc. etc.

Well, 150+ out of maybe 250 does sound to me like most, but how about
the following rewording:


"The best known winegrowing region in Oregon is the Willamette (rhymes
with "damn it") Valley."



starting just South of Portland and continuing southward to Salem, on
the western side of the Willamette River. This area is a cool-weather
growing area noted for its Pinot Noirs, but also for its Pinot Gris and
Chardonnay. The area is easily accessible by day trip from Portland,
with many of the wineries located near US 99W.

Many of the Dundee-McMinnville area wineries are along 99W, but a lot
are located in the east valley as well, which is actually closer to
Portland.

Yeah, I should probably note the East region. I just kind of ignored it
since I've never been excited by any of the wines from there, but that's
just showing my bias ;-)



Geographically, this
region can be divided into a "northern" area, centered around Dundee,
and a "southern" region in the Eola Hills near Salem and also around
McMinnville.

Dundee and McMinnville are ten miles apart, and I'd count both in the
same northern region. Just in the McMinnville area, there are about
five new AVAs within the past two years. Micro-AVAs if you will.

I'll put McMinnville in the Northern region. In my mind, it's kind of
its own little region since it's about halfway between Dundee and Salem.


The Willamette is now host to about seven distinct AVA's (mostly along
the various hills). It is true the Willamette Valley is divided into
northern and southern areas, and Salem is more or less the dividing
line between the two. There are a lot of vineyards in the southern
valley (extending down to the hills around Eugene).

Any of note?

I'd personally forego a list of wineries for this and any FAQ (at least
pertaining to Oregon), since the number of wineries changes each year.
Lots are added (50-60 in the past two years), and lots close down, are
renamed, or just go out of business. I recently updated the list of
wineries on OregonWines.com. That was four months ago, and since then
we've received a few inquiries about another six or seven wineries that
are either needing to be added, or had since closed down. Here's a link
from the most recent update.

The problem with what you suggest, Dave, is that it forgoes any advice.
If you look at my response to Vino in this thread, you'll see what my
approach is. I figure that if people just want to know what wineries
are there, they can consult your list or that of the other websites that
I'll link to. What I'm trying to do is give all the advice that's been
presented on alt.food.wine. It's not meant to be comprehensive, just
representative of what's been said here -- which is, after all, what a
FAQ purports to be. I agree that Oregon does change rapidly (as does CA)
which is why I limited my suggestions to fairly recent ones. And I do
intend to frequently update the list as new information arrives here.


Lots of the wineries' web sites include links to local lodging. I'd be
sure to include all the various McMenamins overnight spots, such as the
Grande Lodge in Forest Grove, Hotel Oregon in McMinnville, and
Edgefield Estate in east Portland (on the mouth of the Gorge). There
are literally dozens of B&B's and inns all across the map. Because this
list could be so extensive, it might be best to just link to some local
travel sites.

Thanks. I'll look into that.

Same goes for this list. Always changing, hardly static.

Again, I'm just forwarding the advice given here. I'll update it as new
information becomes available. For the record, though, what would you
recommend right now?


In general, I think it's a good idea to include a detailed FAQ where
possible. The question is -- who is going to constantly update this
list?

Either me or a bot that I code.

I would think it would better serve the reader of the
FAQ if a link to tourism web sites was listed. This way, you can
offload the pressure of having to personally maintain the list on the
FAQ, and still accomplish your goal of helping your FAQ reader find
current information about the regions they're interested in.

I do link to various regional travel websites. I forgot to do that with
Oregon, but will correct that omission forthwith.


Please note, even though OregonWines.com is regarded as a very helpful
resource by our visitors, I don't care one way or another if it were to
be included on the FAQ list. We get plenty of traffic as it is. I
simply think in general, to link to these kinds of large/tourism sites
would be more beneficial to the average reader, in the long run. This
goes for regions in every country. USA, Europe, etc.

I agree, Dave, and will certainly link to your site. I think that the
winery visit planner is a very useful tool for anyone who might consult
our FAQ.

Thanks for the input,
Mark Lipton

On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 14:16:43 -0500, Mark Lipton
wrote:

Vino wrote:

With regard to your list of wineries, I have no comment other than to
wonder why certain wineries made the list and others didn't. There is
an excellent publication available from

http://www.willamettewines.com/brochure.shtml

that provides a map and lists all (or at least most) of the wineries
located in the Willamette Valley and provides the days and hours they
are open for tasting. Not all of them are open every day. Of course
this publication would not be much help if one wished to visit any of
the wineries in other parts of the state.

In regard to your question, what I've done with all of the travel advice
is simply to cull all the recommendations I could find on alt.food.wine
from 2003-present (and include a few noteworthy 2002 recs) in the Google
archives. I adopted this approach to reduce any bias that my own
recommendations would introduce, while also placing some value on
personal experience to guide interested parties. IMO, a simple listing
(or linking) of all available wineries, restaurants, etc. is of limited
value as it says nothing about quality; at the same time, I don't want
to edit out recommendations I don't agree with because I can't
anticipate the tastes of the people who consult this advice.

I understand what you are trying to do but I question the extent to
which subjective judgments regarding quality of wines or wineries
should be part of any FAQ. And information regarding days and times of
tasting room hours at specific wineries is of more than limited
interest to someone planning a visit to a particular area. Subjective
judgments are quite appropriate in AFW itself, but I don't think they
belong in the FAQ.

On another topic, other posters have mentioned the abundance of B&B's
in the Willamette Valley. My wife and I are not B&B people but, based
on an experience related to me by a close friend, I suggest that
anyone contemplating making reservations at a particular B&B establish
a clear understanding regarding that B&B's cancellation policies.

Vino

Vino wrote:

I understand what you are trying to do but I question the extent to
which subjective judgments regarding quality of wines or wineries
should be part of any FAQ. And information regarding days and times of
tasting room hours at specific wineries is of more than limited
interest to someone planning a visit to a particular area. Subjective
judgments are quite appropriate in AFW itself, but I don't think they
belong in the FAQ.

You raise a valid point, and one which I think Dave also was making in a
less direct fashion. What I can say in favor of it is that it attempts
to reduce our need to repeat the same recommendations over and over in
response to the same or similar questions. However, the counterargument
is that change in wineries is rapid enough to make winery
recommendations a moving target and better served by direct questions to
the group. It's a judgement call, I'd say. I think that I'll solicit
some more input on this point.


On another topic, other posters have mentioned the abundance of B&B's
in the Willamette Valley. My wife and I are not B&B people but, based
on an experience related to me by a close friend, I suggest that
anyone contemplating making reservations at a particular B&B establish
a clear understanding regarding that B&B's cancellation policies.

Good point.

Mark Lipton

Hi Mark,

Thanks for taking the time to respond to all of my thoughts on this.
Again - I think what you (and all contributors) to this FAQ is doing is
a great idea. I simply know from experience of too many headaches to
count, how cumbersome it can seem to be tasked with the challenge of
constantly updating information that someone else has already expended
the energy researching for you.

Well, 150+ out of maybe 250 does sound to me like most, but how about
the following rewording:

"The best known winegrowing region in Oregon is the Willamette (rhymes
with "damn it") Valley."

That love it. Not only is that more accurate, but the rhyme is helpful.
Too many names in this state are borrowed names, taken out of context
from other cultures and regions (without any thought to the original
pronunciation).


Yeah, I should probably note the East region. I just kind of ignored it
since I've never been excited by any of the wines from there, but that's
just showing my bias ;-)

Oh, well, they're smaller labeled for sure, but there are some gems out
there. I think that if you really want to focus on specific areas, but
cast aside the east valley, then consider Umpqua and Rogue wines. Wow.
Spicy, fruity, Spanish-style varietals (Tempranilla, Rioja, Syrah!)
from a very Mediterranean climate. Personally, I'm a lot more excited
about these fast-growing areas than the *yawn* "self-appointed-upscale"
sub-sub-sub-micro-AVA's being fought over in Yamhill County/McMinnville
area.


I'll put McMinnville in the Northern region. In my mind, it's kind of
its own little region since it's about halfway between Dundee and Salem.

Dundee is 10 miles from Mac. Salem is 30 miles from Mac.... and at a
diagonal. Not really halfway...


The problem with what you suggest, Dave, is that it forgoes any advice.

Advice is fine - just that if you're going to include a brief list of
wineries, then consider linking to a few external sites just so the
reader can have a quick reference to find the latest. This relinquishes
you from responsibility over giving them an incomplete/outdated list,
and also serves your purpose of educating them about some of the
basics, while also providing pointers where they can further
self-educate.


I agree that Oregon does change rapidly (as does CA)

I think that's the biggest issue. It's one thing to look at a 1,000
year old terroir in southern France, where it's a safe bet 95% of the
wineries remain the same year after year. Just slightly different for
any new/developing region.


which is why I limited my suggestions to fairly recent ones. And I do
intend to frequently update the list as new information arrives here.

Certainly admirable -- but what other regions are you willing to look
at and update? Washington? Colorado? Idaho (27 wineries about to
declare their own AVA, etc)?? It quickly mounts... again... certainly
admirable. I for one have about run out of steam and so welcome someone
else taking over... mind if *we* link to *your* FAQ?


Thanks. I'll look into that.

Someone else here mentioned B&B's being a bit different in their rules
and so forth. Very true. motels/hotels are another thing entirely. Even
a few hostels throughout the area, though I'd think most wine
travellers would go for the middle road and pick an affordable hotel.


Again, I'm just forwarding the advice given here. I'll update it as new
information becomes available. For the record, though, what would you
recommend right now?

Hmm. Trick is, there are dozens of fantastic cultural/wine spots
through the Portland Metro area... and a good number of "urban"
wineries across the Metro area as well. I'm reminded of Mingo (2
locations, Beaverton and Portland - stellar and authentic contemporary
Italian cuisine). There's Blue Hour in the Pearl District with a 2-tier
cheese cart and a eight-page (small print) wine list. Touché is a chic
little tapas bar in the same area (405 and Flanders in downtown
Portland). And right around the corner is Le Bouchon (owned by a
southern French lady, they have great/authentic provençale cuisine).
Outside the PDX area, things go a bit south... there's Nick's Italian
Cafe in McMinnville (heavy on the olive oil) or the Dundee Bistro/Ponzi
Wine bar (wine much better than the food)... Da Vinci in downtown Salem
is really nice with an overal Mediterranean theme... but you see... the
trick is.. it's my personal palate, entirely subjective. I'd rather
provide a list of places, like to portland.citysearch.com or something
(which is loaded up with 3rd party reviews of the various places, even
far outside the range of Portland) as that might serve a reader a bit
more than my own rants and raves...


In general, I think it's a good idea to include a detailed FAQ where
possible. The question is -- who is going to constantly update this
list?

Either me or a bot that I code.

I'd love to see the bot you code. Where is it going to draw its data?
Hope you have some spare time on your hands.


I agree, Dave, and will certainly link to your site.

Thanks. That wasn't my goal, but I appreciate it all the same.


I think that the
winery visit planner is a very useful tool for anyone who might consult
our FAQ.

We've gotten great feedback on it. I know, I know - free user account
required, but it keeps out the spammers and scammers who just want to
blindly steal the (free) Google API code. Feedback welcomed.

Cheers,

David

Mark Lipton wrote in
m:


You raise a valid point, and one which I think Dave also was making in a
less direct fashion. What I can say in favor of it is that it attempts
to reduce our need to repeat the same recommendations over and over in
response to the same or similar questions. However, the counterargument
is that change in wineries is rapid enough to make winery
recommendations a moving target and better served by direct questions to
the group. It's a judgement call, I'd say. I think that I'll solicit
some more input on this point.


I think you are on the right tract, Mark. It's no fun trying to put
something like this together. No matter what you do, there will never be a
time that everyone agrees.

John

Dave wrote:
Hi Mark,

Thanks for taking the time to respond to all of my thoughts on this.
Again - I think what you (and all contributors) to this FAQ is doing is
a great idea. I simply know from experience of too many headaches to
count, how cumbersome it can seem to be tasked with the challenge of
constantly updating information that someone else has already expended
the energy researching for you.

I agree.


That love it. Not only is that more accurate, but the rhyme is helpful.
Too many names in this state are borrowed names, taken out of context
from other cultures and regions (without any thought to the original
pronunciation).

Yeah, I should also probably tell people how to pronounce Oregon since
most East-of-the-Mississippi folk say Or-ee-gone ;-)

Oh, well, they're smaller labeled for sure, but there are some gems out
there. I think that if you really want to focus on specific areas, but
cast aside the east valley, then consider Umpqua and Rogue wines. Wow.
Spicy, fruity, Spanish-style varietals (Tempranilla, Rioja, Syrah!)
from a very Mediterranean climate. Personally, I'm a lot more excited
about these fast-growing areas than the *yawn* "self-appointed-upscale"
sub-sub-sub-micro-AVA's being fought over in Yamhill County/McMinnville
area.

This is where I see the divide between what you do and what I see as the
goal of the FAQ. I can't hope to give an accurate picture of what's
happening in the Rogue valley, nor can I recall anyone posting here
about it. So, I'll steer those people interested in visiting Rogue
River wineries to your site, where they can get a detailed picture.


I'll put McMinnville in the Northern region. In my mind, it's kind of
its own little region since it's about halfway between Dundee and Salem.

Dundee is 10 miles from Mac. Salem is 30 miles from Mac.... and at a
diagonal. Not really halfway...

Point taken. It just feels that way since I come down 217 to 99W from
Cedar Hills.

Advice is fine - just that if you're going to include a brief list of
wineries, then consider linking to a few external sites just so the
reader can have a quick reference to find the latest. This relinquishes
you from responsibility over giving them an incomplete/outdated list,
and also serves your purpose of educating them about some of the
basics, while also providing pointers where they can further
self-educate.

I completely agree, and this is precisely the approach I've taken
heretofore.


Certainly admirable -- but what other regions are you willing to look
at and update? Washington? Colorado? Idaho (27 wineries about to
declare their own AVA, etc)?? It quickly mounts... again... certainly
admirable. I for one have about run out of steam and so welcome someone
else taking over... mind if *we* link to *your* FAQ?

Again, comprehensive coverage isn't the goal here, merely summation of
prior discussions on a variety of topics.


I'd love to see the bot you code. Where is it going to draw its data?
Hope you have some spare time on your hands.

I see two different approaches. The first is to subvert the RSS feed
from Google Groups and parse certain keywords for the data, which is
then either amassed in a file or emailed to me. The second is to
install a standalone NNTP server such as Leafnode that pulls only
alt.food.wine and periodically grep the news spool looking for selected
keywords. Again, the output would simply be sent to a file or emailed
to me. Either way, the implementation would be fairly straightforward
and very low overhead.

Mark Lipton