Last night a wine tasting in Charlotte was being done to show several wines
that were available under cork and scew cap closures.

3 whites and 3 reds were available in both closures for same vintages.

20 people present.

Results

First White wine: 16 of 20 selected screw cap over cork
Second White wine: 16 of 20 selected screw cap over cork
Third White wine: 18 of 20 selected scew cap over cork

First Red Wine: 80 of 20 selected cork over screw cap
Second Red Wine: 20 of 20 selected cork over screw cap
Third Red Wine 20 of 20 selected cork over screw cap

Wines were tasted blind.

Subjective personal data: Whites seemed more pure, crisp, fruity under scew
cap
Reds on other hand seem more complex, multi faceted under cork.

seeya.

"Richard Neidich" wrote:

First Red Wine: 80 of 20 selected cork over screw cap

Now that's a result not even Kim Yong Il would ever have dreamt of.

M.

You are correct...

8 of 20 is more like it. It was an every day drinking type and was better
than cork..I forget the name.

"Michael Pronay" wrote in message
...
"Richard Neidich" wrote:

First Red Wine: 80 of 20 selected cork over screw cap

Now that's a result not even Kim Yong Il would ever have dreamt of.

M.

"Richard Neidich" wrote:

First Red Wine: 80 of 20 selected cork over screw cap

Now that's a result not even Kim Yong Il would ever have dreamt
of.

You are correct...

8 of 20 is more like it. It was an every day drinking type and
was better than cork..I forget the name.

Btw, what vintages were the reds? Rather bloody youngish, I suppose.

And where did they come from: US, Oz, NZ, other?

M.

1 Aus, 1 NZ, 1 French.

I cannot recall the producers but will speak to the host and try to get.

I beleive the french white was 2002 Domaine Laroche Chablis Premier Cru Les
Fourchaumes. Available in both closures.

The NZ and AUS I cannot recall....I did not really care for either if the
NZ-AUS wines. But that was because they were to fruity vs earthlike
qualities.

And you would be surpised to know that blindly...I actually selected the
screw caps as my perferred more times than the cork.

My previous Plumpjack tasting with the 1997 was in my home and I did know
which was which and it might have altered my perceptions. Mind of matter
:-)


"Michael Pronay" wrote in message
...
"Richard Neidich" wrote:

First Red Wine: 80 of 20 selected cork over screw cap

Now that's a result not even Kim Yong Il would ever have dreamt
of.

You are correct...

8 of 20 is more like it. It was an every day drinking type and
was better than cork..I forget the name.

Btw, what vintages were the reds? Rather bloody youngish, I suppose.

And where did they come from: US, Oz, NZ, other?

M.

All the whites were French/Alsace...the reds were AUS/ NZ.
"Richard Neidich" wrote in message
link.net...
1 Aus, 1 NZ, 1 French.

I cannot recall the producers but will speak to the host and try to get.

I beleive the french white was 2002 Domaine Laroche Chablis Premier Cru
Les Fourchaumes. Available in both closures.

The NZ and AUS I cannot recall....I did not really care for either if the
NZ-AUS wines. But that was because they were to fruity vs earthlike
qualities.

And you would be surpised to know that blindly...I actually selected the
screw caps as my perferred more times than the cork.

My previous Plumpjack tasting with the 1997 was in my home and I did know
which was which and it might have altered my perceptions. Mind of matter
:-)


"Michael Pronay" wrote in message
...
"Richard Neidich" wrote:

First Red Wine: 80 of 20 selected cork over screw cap

Now that's a result not even Kim Yong Il would ever have dreamt
of.

You are correct...

8 of 20 is more like it. It was an every day drinking type and
was better than cork..I forget the name.

Btw, what vintages were the reds? Rather bloody youngish, I suppose.

And where did they come from: US, Oz, NZ, other?

M.

I'd love to do a similar experiment. I'm sure with 20 participants
geeky enough to do a tasting based on closures there will be some
discussion on the web wine boards re this tasting. I look forward to
seeing the wines, as Plumpjack was the only red I was familiar with who
issued both cork and screwcap (I know d'Agassac offers a choice in
2004, but not in US yet). There are more whites that are offered under
both, but not usually in the same market. The organizer is to be
congratulated for his/her efforts, and I'm sure will want the wine
world to know their results. Once I see the list of wines I might try
and recreate.

The host just informed me that these were the selctions she used:

Whites:

2002 Domaine Laroche Chablis Premier Cru Les Fourchaumes, 2001 Domaine
Laroche Chablis Premier Cru Les Vaudevay, 2002 Domaine Laroche Chablis Saint
Martin
Reds
Tinhorn Creek Vineyards 2001 Merlot from BC
1997 Penfolds Bin
1995 Penfolds Bin

Host indicated she had plans for alsace PG but the product under cork she
had 2 bottles...both were bad so she pulled and replaced with Domaine
Laroche.

There were heavy appitizers for each course paired.

thats all.

seeya







"Michael Pronay" wrote in message
...
"Richard Neidich" wrote:

First Red Wine: 80 of 20 selected cork over screw cap

Now that's a result not even Kim Yong Il would ever have dreamt
of.

You are correct...

8 of 20 is more like it. It was an every day drinking type and
was better than cork..I forget the name.

Btw, what vintages were the reds? Rather bloody youngish, I suppose.

And where did they come from: US, Oz, NZ, other?

M.

Michael.
you know sometimes one has an ethical dilemma. If one has resolved to
not respond to a troll/liar, and yet they are passing off as true
something one finds incredibly farfetched, how does one respond? Is it
better to keep one's mouth shut, and let some lurkers get influenced by
a post one is pretty sure is....shall we say less than truthful?

Now, I know I should never doubt Mr. Neidich, because Dave from Oregon
has declared him beyond reproach -a true upstanding AFWer. But can you
fault me for being a little confused? He posts results from a tasting
that *exactly* replicate his stated position on closures and aging.
But "1 Aus, 1 NZ, 1 French" becomes "All the whites were
French/Alsace" becomes 3 wines from Domaine Laroche. Would you forget
if all three wines were from same producer in Chablis? And the hard to
remember reds became AUS/NZ then turned out to be a Canadian and two
AUS reds- the two Aussies again from one very well-known producer. Wow,
he obviously didn't spit at that tasting!

Of course, as I said, we should be seeing lots of reports about this
event on wine web. Because this must have been a pretty serious
tasting- while there have been lots of reports on the Penfolds Bin 389
under Stelvin vs under cork , as far as I can tell only the cork
versions were ever released - all of the Stelvin versions were kept for
Penfolds' internal trials. The hostess must be VERY connected. I'm sure
they furnished it only because this group were seriously investigating
aging under alternate closures. I also look forward to those reports so
I can find the Alsace PG that was bottled under both closures- as I
said, would love to hold this experiment with one of my tasting groups.


Now, I'm sure I'll be embarrassed -nay, humiliated- for doubting the
truthfulness of Mr. Neidich when the Charlotte-based distributor of
Penfolds and Laroche (perhaps her name is Audrey?) tells of her dinner
with Mr. Neidich and others. Otherwise, can we expect a post claiming
that evil AFW hackers (or perhaps the perfidious French?) forged his
name and IP address, that they parked outside his house and piggybacked
onto his router to post these posts, or that it was all in fun?

I personally look forward to reliable reports on the aging of wine
under various closures. But a post with constantly changing stories re
what wines were involved by a poster who has in my opinion already
proven that his word is worthless ("I am not Audrey") adds nothing to
the closure debate. I'm sorry to have ignored many people's sound
advice to just ignore the dick, but I worried that someone would refuse
to buy a screwcap sealed wine based on the "evidence."

As with my posts on the Audrey situation, if I see credible evidence
that I am incorrect I will remove myself forever from AFW.

Dale, and who is the real dick here.

The tasting was from an association locally and a local distributor did it
at a local country club. Casual event for entertainment.

I am faily sure one of your wine dinners with Betsy is more likely to get
published.

Nice that you post on a thread that I started and secondly to attempt to do
so when you cannot communicate directly to me.

You are a total coward. end of story.


"DaleW" wrote in message
ups.com...
Michael.
you know sometimes one has an ethical dilemma. If one has resolved to
not respond to a troll/liar, and yet they are passing off as true
something one finds incredibly farfetched, how does one respond? Is it
better to keep one's mouth shut, and let some lurkers get influenced by
a post one is pretty sure is....shall we say less than truthful?

Now, I know I should never doubt Mr. Neidich, because Dave from Oregon
has declared him beyond reproach -a true upstanding AFWer. But can you
fault me for being a little confused? He posts results from a tasting
that *exactly* replicate his stated position on closures and aging.
But "1 Aus, 1 NZ, 1 French" becomes "All the whites were
French/Alsace" becomes 3 wines from Domaine Laroche. Would you forget
if all three wines were from same producer in Chablis? And the hard to
remember reds became AUS/NZ then turned out to be a Canadian and two
AUS reds- the two Aussies again from one very well-known producer. Wow,
he obviously didn't spit at that tasting!

Of course, as I said, we should be seeing lots of reports about this
event on wine web. Because this must have been a pretty serious
tasting- while there have been lots of reports on the Penfolds Bin 389
under Stelvin vs under cork , as far as I can tell only the cork
versions were ever released - all of the Stelvin versions were kept for
Penfolds' internal trials. The hostess must be VERY connected. I'm sure
they furnished it only because this group were seriously investigating
aging under alternate closures. I also look forward to those reports so
I can find the Alsace PG that was bottled under both closures- as I
said, would love to hold this experiment with one of my tasting groups.


Now, I'm sure I'll be embarrassed -nay, humiliated- for doubting the
truthfulness of Mr. Neidich when the Charlotte-based distributor of
Penfolds and Laroche (perhaps her name is Audrey?) tells of her dinner
with Mr. Neidich and others. Otherwise, can we expect a post claiming
that evil AFW hackers (or perhaps the perfidious French?) forged his
name and IP address, that they parked outside his house and piggybacked
onto his router to post these posts, or that it was all in fun?

I personally look forward to reliable reports on the aging of wine
under various closures. But a post with constantly changing stories re
what wines were involved by a poster who has in my opinion already
proven that his word is worthless ("I am not Audrey") adds nothing to
the closure debate. I'm sorry to have ignored many people's sound
advice to just ignore the dick, but I worried that someone would refuse
to buy a screwcap sealed wine based on the "evidence."

As with my posts on the Audrey situation, if I see credible evidence
that I am incorrect I will remove myself forever from AFW.

Another rant and temper tantrum from a coward Dale...you surprise me.




"DaleW" wrote in message
ups.com...
Michael.
you know sometimes one has an ethical dilemma. If one has resolved to
not respond to a troll/liar, and yet they are passing off as true
something one finds incredibly farfetched, how does one respond? Is it
better to keep one's mouth shut, and let some lurkers get influenced by
a post one is pretty sure is....shall we say less than truthful?

Now, I know I should never doubt Mr. Neidich, because Dave from Oregon
has declared him beyond reproach -a true upstanding AFWer. But can you
fault me for being a little confused? He posts results from a tasting
that *exactly* replicate his stated position on closures and aging.
But "1 Aus, 1 NZ, 1 French" becomes "All the whites were
French/Alsace" becomes 3 wines from Domaine Laroche. Would you forget
if all three wines were from same producer in Chablis? And the hard to
remember reds became AUS/NZ then turned out to be a Canadian and two
AUS reds- the two Aussies again from one very well-known producer. Wow,
he obviously didn't spit at that tasting!

Of course, as I said, we should be seeing lots of reports about this
event on wine web. Because this must have been a pretty serious
tasting- while there have been lots of reports on the Penfolds Bin 389
under Stelvin vs under cork , as far as I can tell only the cork
versions were ever released - all of the Stelvin versions were kept for
Penfolds' internal trials. The hostess must be VERY connected. I'm sure
they furnished it only because this group were seriously investigating
aging under alternate closures. I also look forward to those reports so
I can find the Alsace PG that was bottled under both closures- as I
said, would love to hold this experiment with one of my tasting groups.


Now, I'm sure I'll be embarrassed -nay, humiliated- for doubting the
truthfulness of Mr. Neidich when the Charlotte-based distributor of
Penfolds and Laroche (perhaps her name is Audrey?) tells of her dinner
with Mr. Neidich and others. Otherwise, can we expect a post claiming
that evil AFW hackers (or perhaps the perfidious French?) forged his
name and IP address, that they parked outside his house and piggybacked
onto his router to post these posts, or that it was all in fun?

I personally look forward to reliable reports on the aging of wine
under various closures. But a post with constantly changing stories re
what wines were involved by a poster who has in my opinion already
proven that his word is worthless ("I am not Audrey") adds nothing to
the closure debate. I'm sorry to have ignored many people's sound
advice to just ignore the dick, but I worried that someone would refuse
to buy a screwcap sealed wine based on the "evidence."

As with my posts on the Audrey situation, if I see credible evidence
that I am incorrect I will remove myself forever from AFW.

"DaleW" wrote:

I personally look forward to reliable reports on the aging of wine
under various closures.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/epicure/seal-of-
approval/2006/02/19/1140283945303.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap2

or

http://snipurl.com/n0nj

M.

Michael, I am not as opposed to screw caps as I used to be after this
tasting. I think that in the whites, cork taint is more discernable for me
vs big heavy reds. And even from our tasting...I like the whites more in
screw caps.

Even the reds, and I must admit I do not really enjoy Aus Wines that much,
don't drink them...the cheap or expensive. I still noticed that these wines
were different...but the one under screw cap was more structured. So I
preferred the screw cap on reds... I like my reds a bit younger on new
world wines. Rarely to I find a Cal or Aus wine better at 10 years than at
release. The screw cap actually kept the wine from over developing as fast.
IMHO.

Anyway...even if it does age differently....that might not be a bad thing
for new world wines.....on a GREAT VINTAGE Bordeaux...where I don't consider
touching for 10-15 years I might be dissapointed if the aging slowed that
much and I did not get to drink in my lifetime.

Thanks for posting the urls for the test.

I don't keep tasting notes really so I could not post mine. All I could say
is none of the wines suited me and the purpose was to show the difference.
I am sorry for any confusion as I thought that some of the wines were from
NZ but they were not. It was French, Aus and BC.

I think my thoughts from a blind tasting totally changed my news on screw
caps. :-(




"Michael Pronay" wrote in message
...
"DaleW" wrote:

I personally look forward to reliable reports on the aging of wine
under various closures.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/epicure/seal-of-
approval/2006/02/19/1140283945303.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap2

or

http://snipurl.com/n0nj

M.

"Richard Neidich" wrote:

I think my thoughts from a blind tasting totally changed my news

News or Views?

on screw caps.

Not a bad thing, I presume!

:-(

No, :-) !

M.

My views...I really need to wear my glasses when I type.

Eyesight has been declining since drinking wines that have screw caps. :-)



"Michael Pronay" wrote in message
...
"Richard Neidich" wrote:

I think my thoughts from a blind tasting totally changed my news

News or Views?

on screw caps.

Not a bad thing, I presume!

:-(

No, :-) !

M.