If you think your a true vegan, your just fooling yourself. Someone will
always slip some animal products in your food when your not looking. If you
travel from California to New York, you better not stop at any restaurants
or else they are true vegan restaurants and they are few and far between. If
someone puts a little milk in your mash potatoes, are you going to have a
break-down?

On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 08:05:33 -0700, "Richard Miller"
wrote:

If you think your a true vegan, your just fooling yourself. Someone will
always slip some animal products in your food when your not looking.
Unfortynately you seem to read all the false hype that presume
non-consumers of animal products aren't very mindful of their food
intake. In fact it's quite the opposite. It's a daily learning and
rewarding experiencefinding out where junk of all types might be
getting into one's food. Unlike how you may be stuffing your face full
of whatever's dumped if front of you-harmful or healthy -as long as
it's tasty, vegans and vegetarians know what's a no-no generally and
how to balance their diet, and hopefully they add this with daily
energetic activity if possible.

travel from California to New York, you better not stop at any restaurants
or else they are true vegan restaurants and they are few and far between.

Fruits, vegetables, nuts .... sandwiches - no need to rely on
restaurants
someone puts a little milk in your mash potatoes, are you going to have a
break-down?

Regarding 'break-down' quip... hardly,-more like 'oops' - along with a
precaution to try avoid and the situation in the future if
possible,... ie, ask if milk was put in the mash-potatoes/or request
it not be put in your portion.... it's not that hard-but you make it
out to be an Odyssey.

"Joe" wrote in message
...





On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 08:05:33 -0700, "Richard Miller"
wrote:

If you think your a true vegan, your just fooling yourself.
Someone will
always slip some animal products in your food when your not
looking.
Unfortynately you seem to read all the false hype that presume
non-consumers of animal products aren't very mindful of their
food
intake.
=========================
The problem for you fool is that you ARE consuming animals, even
if they are not on your plate. They suffer and die by the
millions, and you don't even bat an eye, killer.


In fact it's quite the opposite. It's a daily learning and
rewarding experiencefinding out where junk of all types might
be
getting into one's food. Unlike how you may be stuffing your
face full
of whatever's dumped if front of you-harmful or healthy -as
long as
it's tasty, vegans and vegetarians know what's a no-no
generally and
how to balance their diet, and hopefully they add this with
daily
energetic activity if possible.

travel from California to New York, you better not stop at any
restaurants
or else they are true vegan restaurants and they are few and
far between.

Fruits, vegetables, nuts .... sandwiches - no need to rely on
restaurants
someone puts a little milk in your mash potatoes, are you going
to have a
break-down?

Regarding 'break-down' quip... hardly,-more like 'oops' - along
with a
precaution to try avoid and the situation in the future if
possible,... ie, ask if milk was put in the mash-potatoes/or
request
it not be put in your portion.... it's not that hard-but you
make it
out to be an Odyssey.

Joe wrote:




On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 08:05:33 -0700, "Richard Miller"
wrote:


If you think your a true vegan, your just fooling yourself. Someone will
always slip some animal products in your food when your not looking.

Unfortynately you seem to read all the false hype that presume
non-consumers of animal products aren't very mindful of their food
intake. In fact it's quite the opposite. It's a daily learning and
rewarding experiencefinding out where junk of all types might be
getting into one's food. Unlike how you may be stuffing your face full
of whatever's dumped if front of you-harmful or healthy -as long as
it's tasty, vegans and vegetarians know what's a no-no generally and
how to balance their diet, and hopefully they add this with daily
energetic activity if possible.


travel from California to New York, you better not stop at any restaurants
or else they are true vegan restaurants and they are few and far between.


Fruits, vegetables, nuts .... sandwiches - no need to rely on
restaurants

someone puts a little milk in your mash potatoes, are you going to have a
break-down?


Regarding 'break-down' quip... hardly,-more like 'oops' - along with a
precaution to try avoid and the situation in the future if
possible,... ie, ask if milk was put in the mash-potatoes/or request
it not be put in your portion.... it's not that hard-but you make it
out to be an Odyssey.


We have a vegan resturant near me. And I make most of my wn food.

Finally we have chincese and indian esturantnt that are wonwed by
vegetarian, they server meat dishes but they are careful to mark the
vegetarian dishes.

Finally, resturants are getting more knowledgeable.

Bob

Richard Miller wrote:
If you think your a true vegan, your just fooling yourself. Someone will
always slip some animal products in your food when your not looking. If you
travel from California to New York, you better not stop at any restaurants
or else they are true vegan restaurants and they are few and far between. If
someone puts a little milk in your mash potatoes, are you going to have a
break-down?

What is the basis of your assumption that everyone eats at restaurants?
I never eat at restaurants. I would not touch restaurant food with a
ten foot pole.

Beach Runner wrote:
...
We have a vegan resturant near me. And I make most of my wn food.

Finally we have chincese and indian esturantnt that are wonwed by
vegetarian, they server meat dishes but they are careful to mark the
vegetarian dishes.

Finally, resturants are getting more knowledgeable.

....while you're apparently not. Restaurants. Chinese. Indian should be
capitalized. "They server meat dishes" sounds like Chinglish -- your
first language. Your spelling and grammar are appalling. Don't blame it
on the hurricane, either, Bob. I've read enough of your posts to know
that it has nothing to do with hurricane season or your proximity to the
tropics (where you contribute to global warming).

usual suspect wrote:
Beach Runner wrote:
...


...while you're apparently not. Restaurants. Chinese. Indian should be
capitalized. "They server meat dishes" sounds like Chinglish -- your
first language. Your spelling and grammar are appalling. Don't blame it
on the hurricane, either, Bob. I've read enough of your posts to know
that it has nothing to do with hurricane season or your proximity to the
tropics (where you contribute to global warming).


Pretty bad. I network when dealing with issues that sometimes require
meds always in the middle of insomnia waiting for them to work.
Obviously before they kick in they dramatically effect my writing. I am
sorry. Prior to my car accident I was in great health. I can write
well and I apologize for that appalling example of communication.
Reading it later is shocking.

To repeat, there is a vegan restaurant near me. Similarly there are
Chinese and Indian restaurants that are owned by vegetarians by religion,
serve meat for profit, but delight in serving true vegetarian meals.

At buffets one can be careful.

And yes, many restaurants are not honest. However, more are seeing a
need to cater to vegetarians.

Beach Runner wrote:
...while you're apparently not. Restaurants. Chinese. Indian should be
capitalized. "They server meat dishes" sounds like Chinglish -- your
first language. Your spelling and grammar are appalling. Don't blame
it on the hurricane, either, Bob. I've read enough of your posts to
know that it has nothing to do with hurricane season or your proximity
to the tropics (where you contribute to global warming).

Pretty bad.

Horrendous!

I network when dealing with issues that sometimes require
meds always in the middle of insomnia waiting for them to work.

Maybe you should find something more relaxing to do.

Obviously before they kick in they dramatically effect my writing. I am
sorry.

You should be.

Prior to my car accident I was in great health. I can write
well and I apologize for that appalling example of communication.
Reading it later is shocking.

No kidding.

To repeat, there is a vegan restaurant near me. Similarly there are
Chinese and Indian restaurants that are owned by vegetarians by religion,
serve meat for profit, but delight in serving true vegetarian meals.

They also delight in "serving meat for profit."

At buffets one can be careful.

And yes, many restaurants are not honest. However, more are seeing a
need to cater to vegetarians.

It isn't a need as much as a way to make more money by giving customers
what they want.

usual suspect wrote:
Beach Runner wrote:

...while you're apparently not. Restaurants. Chinese. Indian should
be capitalized. "They server meat dishes" sounds like Chinglish --
your first language. Your spelling and grammar are appalling. Don't
blame it on the hurricane, either, Bob. I've read enough of your
posts to know that it has nothing to do with hurricane season or your
proximity to the tropics (where you contribute to global warming).


Pretty bad.


Horrendous!

I network when dealing with issues that sometimes require meds always
in the middle of insomnia waiting for them to work.


I actually thought I had gone off any medication that effected my
writing and then I saw that. A lesson learned.

Maybe you should find something more relaxing to do.

Obviously before they kick in they dramatically effect my writing. I
am sorry.


You should be.

Prior to my car accident I was in great health. I can write well and
I apologize for that appalling example of communication. Reading it
later is shocking.


No kidding.





To repeat, there is a vegan restaurant near me. Similarly there are
Chinese and Indian restaurants that are owned by vegetarians by religion,
serve meat for profit, but delight in serving true vegetarian meals.


They also delight in "serving meat for profit."

Or they are trying to survive in a very competitive world and are making
compromises. I wouldn't do it.



At buffets one can be careful.

And yes, many restaurants are not honest. However, more are seeing a
need to cater to vegetarians.


It isn't a need as much as a way to make more money by giving customers
what they want.

Of course we live in a capitalistic society but individuals also have
ideals. Hopeful we can balance them in our lives. I know many people
that have meaning in their life and work.

Beach Runner wrote:
...
To repeat, there is a vegan restaurant near me. Similarly there are
Chinese and Indian restaurants that are owned by vegetarians by
religion,
serve meat for profit, but delight in serving true vegetarian meals.

They also delight in "serving meat for profit."

Or they are trying to survive in a very competitive world and are making
compromises.

Making MONEY. Profit is not a compromise, it's a necessity for survival.

I wouldn't do it.

Thus, you wouldn't survive.

At buffets one can be careful.

And yes, many restaurants are not honest. However, more are seeing a
need to cater to vegetarians.

It isn't a need as much as a way to make more money by giving
customers what they want.

Of course we live in a capitalistic

"Capitalist" is an adjective as it is. It doesn't need an -ic suffix.

society but individuals also have
ideals.

Profit motive is a noble ideal in its own right.

Hopeful we can balance them in our lives. I know many people
that have meaning in their life and work.

The restauranteurs who gladly serve meat to the mainstream and serve
meatless meals to the peculiar riff-raff who occasionally visit their
establishments have balance in their lives.

usual suspect wrote:
Beach Runner wrote:
...

To repeat, there is a vegan restaurant near me. Similarly there are
Chinese and Indian restaurants that are owned by vegetarians by
religion,
serve meat for profit, but delight in serving true vegetarian meals.


They also delight in "serving meat for profit."


Or they are trying to survive in a very competitive world and are
making compromises.


Making MONEY. Profit is not a compromise, it's a necessity for survival.

I wouldn't do it.


Thus, you wouldn't survive.

We can make choices. Earlier in my career a headhunter was trying to
get me to take a high pay, cushy job with a major tobacco firm. I would
not consider working for them. It was a choice.




At buffets one can be careful.

And yes, many restaurants are not honest. However, more are seeing
a need to cater to vegetarians.


It isn't a need as much as a way to make more money by giving
customers what they want.


Of course we live in a capitalistic


"Capitalist" is an adjective as it is. It doesn't need an -ic suffix.
Actually we live in a blended economy. It does not seem that any
economic system is perfect. Capitalism has it's blemishes, and it
appears that regulations/unions helped overcome some limitations. New
forces, especially low wage labor in India, China, and globalization
along with the speed of technological change, radical religious groups,
environmental instability, overpopulation, despots, world slavery, are
creating change at an incredible pace. Large forces are trying to
return to middle ages using modern weapon systems and ancient religious
systems.

We don't live in a capitalism, we live in a capitalistic system
undergoing radical changes.


Then there are those people that want to try and improve the world.
People do. One of my heroes recently died and she changed America by
simply siting where she wasn't allowed to. Rosa Parks.

There are those who live to create art, for it's own sake. Composers,
musicians, artists, scientists, writers, and other creative people who
live for an idea. Much of this type of living is not purely capitalism
and often can do better in socialism. For example, in Poland under
communism the levels of musicianship were incredible, but life was like
living in a jail.

You can make profit your God.


society but individuals also have ideals.



Profit motive is a noble ideal in its own right.

It can lead to the production of products that are destructive,
environmentally destructive, and community destroying. Profit, in and
of itself is dangerous. It can also spur great new technologies and
services. Uncontrolled capitalism has proven to create a tiny upper
class and a horrendous life for the majority of the population. Read
Dickens for classic examples, but you don't need to.

Hitler was great for most business in Germany.

Hopeful we can balance them in our lives. I know many people that
have meaning in their life and work.


The restauranteurs who gladly serve meat to the mainstream and serve
meatless meals to the peculiar riff-raff who occasionally visit their
establishments have balance in their lives.

Riff-raffs? A strange way to describe people who eat healthier and care
about other living creatures.

Beach Runner wrote:
...
Hopeful we can balance them in our lives. I know many people that
have meaning in their life and work.

The restauranteurs who gladly serve meat to the mainstream and serve
meatless meals to the peculiar riff-raff who occasionally visit their
establishments have balance in their lives.

Riff-raffs?

Yes.

A strange way to describe people who eat healthier

That's not the issue and you know it.

and care about other living creatures.

That's the issue, dummy, and **** you for arrogantly thinking you corner
the market on such care for animals.

usual suspect wrote:

That's the issue, dummy, and **** you for arrogantly thinking you corner
the market on such care for animals.

I hardly corner the market. Veg*n movements are growing.

Beach Runner wrote:
That's the issue, dummy, and **** you for arrogantly thinking you
corner the market on such care for animals.

I hardly corner the market. Veg*n movements are growing.

Haha, you wish. Vegans and "serious vegetarians" are a stagnant
demographic and they make up less than two-percent of the US population.

With the number of serious vegetarians stagnating at less than
2% according to some estimates, the market potential may be just
too small, though, for a QSR selling to a mass market.
http://www.cattlenetwork.com/content.asp?contentid=4949

You might be so (counter-)culturally isolated that you think everyone is
like your little circle. "Veg*n movements" are self-marginalizing and
exclusivist, not exactly the best things for growth.

usual suspect wrote:
Beach Runner wrote:

That's the issue, dummy, and **** you for arrogantly thinking you
corner the market on such care for animals.


I hardly corner the market. Veg*n movements are growing.


Haha, you wish. Vegans and "serious vegetarians" are a stagnant
demographic and they make up less than two-percent of the US population.

With the number of serious vegetarians stagnating at less than
2% according to some estimates, the market potential may be just
too small, though, for a QSR selling to a mass market.
http://www.cattlenetwork.com/content.asp?contentid=4949

You might be so (counter-)culturally isolated that you think everyone is
like your little circle. "Veg*n movements" are self-marginalizing and
exclusivist, not exactly the best things for growth.

I see at my local store an "Organic" section, they have fresh squeezed
carrot and orange juice. They have many items that are labeled
vegetarian or vegan. This didn't use to exist.

The economic discussion you ignored, I had actually hoped you would
engage in the differences and the concept that there are many people
with values and idealism, and capitalism and socialism in pure forms do
not exist. Both need to be tempered. You appear to love capitalism as
a value in itself.

There are thousands of vegetarian groups on Yahoo. A new successful
vegetarian restaurant near me that does a brisk business. You probably
saw them on the news last year with their plywood windows blown in, but
they rebuilt.