I've been curious about the 'how much rice do you eat?' line that is
sometimes used. Please enlighten me about the 'cost' to animals of rice
production.

Benfez wrote:

I've been curious about the 'how much rice do you eat?' line that is
sometimes used. Please enlighten me about the 'cost' to animals of rice
production.

"f.a.q. collateral included deaths in organic rice
production"

http://tinyurl.com/ytxlh

"Jonathan Ball" wrote in message
k.net...
Benfez wrote:

I've been curious about the 'how much rice do you eat?' line that is
sometimes used. Please enlighten me about the 'cost' to animals of rice
production.

"f.a.q. collateral included deaths in organic rice
production"

http://tinyurl.com/ytxlh

Thanks Jonathan.

"Jonathan Ball" wrote in message k.net...
Benfez wrote:

I've been curious about the 'how much rice do you eat?' line that is
sometimes used. Please enlighten me about the 'cost' to animals of rice
production.

"f.a.q. collateral included deaths in organic rice
production"

http://tinyurl.com/ytxlh

Take note that the author of that page begins by
writing,

"to be honest, like every farmer, i never saw the
(small) deaths until i looked."

but then, later, he writes,

"- when cutting the rice, there is a - visual - green
waterfall of frogs and anoles moving in front of the
combine. sometimes the 'rain' is just a gentle spring
drizzle (10,000/ac ?) swimming across the header,
other times it is a freshet (+50,000/acre ?); sometimes
it is a nor'easter. never is it a drought; never is it a mist.
sometimes, the number of frogs swimming across the
cutter-bar is so massive, we have to change to a
smaller header a/o severely reduce travel speed - there
is just too much rice lost by being pressure-formed into
the rather thickish 'arroz con gracielà paté' which travels
across the screens, rather than falling into the hopper as
good grain should."

He's obviously lying somewhere, unless he has an
intermittent sight problem of course.

"ipse dixit" wrote in message
...

"Jonathan Ball" wrote in message
k.net...
Benfez wrote:

I've been curious about the 'how much rice do you eat?' line that is
sometimes used. Please enlighten me about the 'cost' to animals of
rice
production.

"f.a.q. collateral included deaths in organic rice
production"

http://tinyurl.com/ytxlh

Take note that the author of that page begins by
writing,

"to be honest, like every farmer, i never saw the
(small) deaths until i looked."

but then, later, he writes,

"- when cutting the rice, there is a - visual - green
waterfall of frogs and anoles moving in front of the
combine. sometimes the 'rain' is just a gentle spring
drizzle (10,000/ac ?) swimming across the header,
other times it is a freshet (+50,000/acre ?); sometimes
it is a nor'easter. never is it a drought; never is it a mist.
sometimes, the number of frogs swimming across the
cutter-bar is so massive, we have to change to a
smaller header a/o severely reduce travel speed - there
is just too much rice lost by being pressure-formed into
the rather thickish 'arroz con gracielà paté' which travels
across the screens, rather than falling into the hopper as
good grain should."

He's obviously lying somewhere, unless he has an
intermittent sight problem of course.


Do you dispute the basis of the article?

"Benfez" wrote in message ...

"Jonathan Ball" wrote in message
k.net...
Benfez wrote:

I've been curious about the 'how much rice do you eat?' line that is
sometimes used. Please enlighten me about the 'cost' to animals of rice
production.

"f.a.q. collateral included deaths in organic rice
production"

http://tinyurl.com/ytxlh

Thanks Jonathan.

There is an "article" circulating on the Internet that describes how
thousands of frogs and other animals are killed in the mechanized
harvesting of grain crops. This "collateral animal deaths" story is an
elaborate hoax. The author, a "Texas organic rice farmer" is a gifted
writer, but he should use his talents elsewhere.

The author's numbers describe a plague of frogs of biblical
proportions. However, it is questionable if he has even been on a rice
farm. The major point that our author has missed is that rice fields
are harvested dry. The irrigation water is drained, and the ground is
left to dry before the harvesters go out in the field (otherwise, they'd
sink in the mud). There just aren't that many amphibians in the field.

Regrettably, there probably are some small animal deaths. However, the
number of deaths in a mile of rice harvesting pales in comparison to the
road kill on a mile of highway. Harvesters move slowly, and they are
not the high speed machines described in this article.

At Lundberg Family Farms, we care deeply for the animals that we share
our fields with. For example, every spring before field work begins, we
search the fields for nests, rescuing eggs for a local incubation
centers (mature pairs re-nest when the nests are disturbed like this).
After hatching, the fledglings are raised and released back into the
wild. Last year, we rescued over 3,000 duck eggs. After harvest, we
flood our fields to provide habitat for winter migratory birds and
waterfowl. They eat the rice that is left in the fields and contribute
fertilizer for next spring. There are autumn days when the sky is
blackened by canadian geese (and the sound is beautiful)! We see ducks,
geese, cranes, rails, pheasants, egrets, herons, swans, and even bald
eagles resting in our fields.

We are committed to sustainable and organic farming techniques. We see
our farming operation as a "partnership with nature," and would not
continue if rice harvesting resulted in the "death toll" that this hoax
suggests.

-- Kent Lundberg.

Kent Lundberg
Lundberg Family Farms
http://www.lundberg.com

"Benfez" wrote in message ...
"ipse dixit" wrote in message ...
"Jonathan Ball" wrote in message k.net...
Benfez wrote:

I've been curious about the 'how much rice do you eat?' line that is
sometimes used. Please enlighten me about the 'cost' to animals of
rice production.

"f.a.q. collateral included deaths in organic rice
production"

http://tinyurl.com/ytxlh

Take note that the author of that page begins by
writing,

"to be honest, like every farmer, i never saw the
(small) deaths until i looked."

but then, later, he writes,

"- when cutting the rice, there is a - visual - green
waterfall of frogs and anoles moving in front of the
combine. sometimes the 'rain' is just a gentle spring
drizzle (10,000/ac ?) swimming across the header,
other times it is a freshet (+50,000/acre ?); sometimes
it is a nor'easter. never is it a drought; never is it a mist.
sometimes, the number of frogs swimming across the
cutter-bar is so massive, we have to change to a
smaller header a/o severely reduce travel speed - there
is just too much rice lost by being pressure-formed into
the rather thickish 'arroz con gracielà paté' which travels
across the screens, rather than falling into the hopper as
good grain should."

He's obviously lying somewhere, unless he has an
intermittent sight problem of course.

Do you dispute the basis of the article?

Yes, I do.

There is an "article" circulating on the Internet that describes how
thousands of frogs and other animals are killed in the mechanized
harvesting of grain crops. This "collateral animal deaths" story is an
elaborate hoax. The author, a "Texas organic rice farmer" is a gifted
writer, but he should use his talents elsewhere.

The author's numbers describe a plague of frogs of biblical
proportions. However, it is questionable if he has even been on a rice
farm. The major point that our author has missed is that rice fields
are harvested dry. The irrigation water is drained, and the ground is
left to dry before the harvesters go out in the field (otherwise, they'd
sink in the mud). There just aren't that many amphibians in the field.

Regrettably, there probably are some small animal deaths. However, the
number of deaths in a mile of rice harvesting pales in comparison to the
road kill on a mile of highway. Harvesters move slowly, and they are
not the high speed machines described in this article.

At Lundberg Family Farms, we care deeply for the animals that we share
our fields with. For example, every spring before field work begins, we
search the fields for nests, rescuing eggs for a local incubation
centers (mature pairs re-nest when the nests are disturbed like this).
After hatching, the fledglings are raised and released back into the
wild. Last year, we rescued over 3,000 duck eggs. After harvest, we
flood our fields to provide habitat for winter migratory birds and
waterfowl. They eat the rice that is left in the fields and contribute
fertilizer for next spring. There are autumn days when the sky is
blackened by canadian geese (and the sound is beautiful)! We see ducks,
geese, cranes, rails, pheasants, egrets, herons, swans, and even bald
eagles resting in our fields.

We are committed to sustainable and organic farming techniques. We see
our farming operation as a "partnership with nature," and would not
continue if rice harvesting resulted in the "death toll" that this hoax
suggests.

-- Kent Lundberg.

Kent Lundberg
Lundberg Family Farms
http://www.lundberg.com

"Benfez" wrote in message
...

"Jonathan Ball" wrote in message
k.net...
Benfez wrote:

I've been curious about the 'how much rice do you eat?' line that is
sometimes used. Please enlighten me about the 'cost' to animals of
rice
production.

"f.a.q. collateral included deaths in organic rice
production"

http://tinyurl.com/ytxlh

Thanks Jonathan.

Ignore that article. It was written by a Texan hunter and book seller that
used to drive a tractor. It has no basis in fact. - It's an internet joke.

"Zakhar" wrote in message
...

"Benfez" wrote in message
...

"Jonathan Ball" wrote in message
k.net...
Benfez wrote:

I've been curious about the 'how much rice do you eat?' line that is
sometimes used. Please enlighten me about the 'cost' to animals of
rice
production.

"f.a.q. collateral included deaths in organic rice
production"

http://tinyurl.com/ytxlh

Thanks Jonathan.

Ignore that article. It was written by a Texan hunter and book seller that
used to drive a tractor. It has no basis in fact. - It's an internet joke.

More info (repost):

Diderot specialises in hunting books, and has posted on hunting newsgroups.
He has a poorly hidden agenda.

This FAQ was compiled by Sikes, Robert A. (Bob) of

__________________________________________________ __

Diderot Books
2-1/2 North Washington El Campo, Texas, USA 77437
+1.409.543.2824; 409.543.3371 fax;
__________________________________________________ __

Big Game Hunting & African Exploration books.

Bob Sikes was, and may be still is, a bookshop owner or worker and gun
slinger from Texas.
__________________________________________________ __

The FAQ does not say he is a "hands on rice farmer". He states "i am still
engaged in agribusiness, and we have organic as well as conventional
production farms, conventional & organic 'truck farms' and ranching
operations" - I suggest that this means he shoots or may work on a farm
(driving tractors), and they have farms in his area.

He states that "43,264+ square feet" and "i would guess that the 35,000
amphibian deaths represents less than 10-15% of the total population" - This
would require an amphibian population of at least 5.4 amphibians per square
foot!

This is a photo of an organic rice harvest in Bob Sikes, El Campo area:

http://www.lowellfarms.com/image13.htm

Notice the complete lack of the green waterfall!

__________________________________________________ __

When have the comments from a gun sliging Texan bookworm ever been
"evidence" of CD's?

Zakhar wrote:
"f.a.q. collateral included deaths in organic rice
production"

http://tinyurl.com/ytxlh

Thanks Jonathan.

Ignore that article. It was written by a Texan hunter and book seller that
used to drive a tractor.

What's wrong with driving tractors, you hypocritical snob? Do the blokes
who produce your food drive them?

It has no basis in fact. - It's an internet joke.

According to whom?

"usual suspect" wrote in message
...
Zakhar wrote:
"f.a.q. collateral included deaths in organic rice
production"

http://tinyurl.com/ytxlh

Thanks Jonathan.

Ignore that article. It was written by a Texan hunter and book seller
that
used to drive a tractor.

What's wrong with driving tractors, you hypocritical snob? Do the blokes
who produce your food drive them?

Who said there was something wrong? The point is he NEVER stated he WAS or
IS a farmer. He ONLY stated he's driven thousands of miles, i.e. a driver,
of tractors and combines.

Like every farmer, I know it takes more to be a farmer than drive tractors.


It has no basis in fact. - It's an internet joke.

According to whom?

Here's a challenge - Find verifiable FACTS that substantiate this joke.

When does something some bloke wrote on a newsgroup become fact? - When it
suits you?

Zakhar wrote:

"Benfez" wrote in message
...

"Jonathan Ball" wrote in message
ink.net...

Benfez wrote:


I've been curious about the 'how much rice do you eat?' line that is
sometimes used. Please enlighten me about the 'cost' to animals of

rice

production.

"f.a.q. collateral included deaths in organic rice
production"

http://tinyurl.com/ytxlh

Thanks Jonathan.


Ignore that article. It was written by a Texan hunter and book seller that
used to drive a tractor. It has no basis in fact. - It's an internet joke.

Nope. He was a rice farmer. He saw it. The
explanation is plausible, and is corroborated by the
experience of a hands-on rice farmer.

"Jonathan Ball" wrote in message k.net...
Zakhar wrote:

Ignore that article. It was written by a Texan hunter and book seller that
used to drive a tractor. It has no basis in fact. - It's an internet joke.

Nope. He was a rice farmer. He saw it.

Take note that the author of that page begins by
writing,

"to be honest, like every farmer, i never saw the
(small) deaths until i looked."

but then, later, he writes,

"- when cutting the rice, there is a - visual - green
waterfall of frogs and anoles moving in front of the
combine. sometimes the 'rain' is just a gentle spring
drizzle (10,000/ac ?) swimming across the header,
other times it is a freshet (+50,000/acre ?); sometimes
it is a nor'easter. never is it a drought; never is it a mist.
sometimes, the number of frogs swimming across the
cutter-bar is so massive, we have to change to a
smaller header a/o severely reduce travel speed - there
is just too much rice lost by being pressure-formed into
the rather thickish 'arroz con gracielà paté' which travels
across the screens, rather than falling into the hopper as
good grain should."

He's obviously lying somewhere, unless he has an
intermittent sight problem of course.

On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 17:57:26 -0000, "ipse dixit" wrote:


"Benfez" wrote in message ...
"ipse dixit" wrote in message ...
"Jonathan Ball" wrote in message k.net...
Benfez wrote:

I've been curious about the 'how much rice do you eat?' line that is
sometimes used. Please enlighten me about the 'cost' to animals of
rice production.

"f.a.q. collateral included deaths in organic rice
production"

http://tinyurl.com/ytxlh

Take note that the author of that page begins by
writing,

"to be honest, like every farmer, i never saw the
(small) deaths until i looked."

but then, later, he writes,

"- when cutting the rice, there is a - visual - green
waterfall of frogs and anoles moving in front of the
combine. sometimes the 'rain' is just a gentle spring
drizzle (10,000/ac ?) swimming across the header,
other times it is a freshet (+50,000/acre ?); sometimes
it is a nor'easter. never is it a drought; never is it a mist.
sometimes, the number of frogs swimming across the
cutter-bar is so massive, we have to change to a
smaller header a/o severely reduce travel speed - there
is just too much rice lost by being pressure-formed into
the rather thickish 'arroz con gracielà paté' which travels
across the screens, rather than falling into the hopper as
good grain should."

He's obviously lying somewhere, unless he has an
intermittent sight problem of course.

Do you dispute the basis of the article?

Yes, I do.

Diderot may have exagerated somewhat, but there's
no doubt that rice farming kills animals. When the fields
are plowed, and planted, and treated with *icides, and
drained, and harvested, and whatever is left, is left
without the shelter the rice plants provided so becoming
prey for birds and other carnivores. There could be
plenty of frogs left in some fields when it comes harvest
time. A lot of tree frogs could do fine without water for
a while, especially if there was good morning dew and
maybe some rain. The fields are likely to be heavily
rutted, and so could very well provide good puddles
for lots of frogs and whatever else for days or weeks
after the fields are drained.

Zakhar wrote:

"Jonathan Ball" wrote in message
k.net...

Zakhar wrote:



"f.a.q. collateral included deaths in organic rice
production"

http://tinyurl.com/ytxlh

Thanks Jonathan.


Ignore that article. It was written by a Texan hunter and book seller that
used to drive a tractor. It has no basis in fact. - It's an internet joke.

Nope.


It's a joke, like you.

Nope.



He was a rice farmer.


He never said he was a farmer.

So what? He was a rice farmer.

He was very careful NOT to say he was.

No he wasn't. You're a moron.

It's an illusion, read it with OPEN eyes

I did.



He saw it. The explanation is plausible, and is corroborated by the
experience of a hands-on rice farmer.


So a book seller

Immaterial. Also weird that you'd obsess on it. You
can't read books, can you? You're embarrassed by your
semi-literacy.

from Texas tells a story that is plausible to you, and
corroborates his own story, so you believe every single word?

Non sequitur.