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Vegan (alt.food.vegan) This newsgroup exists to share ideas and issues of concern among vegans. We are always happy to share our recipes- perhaps especially with omnivores who are simply curious- or even better, accomodating a vegan guest for a meal! |
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Free range Egg Question
I know this is a vegan site, but some of you have veggie friends, so might
be able to help me with my query. I am tackling a supplier of battery eggs in this country (UK) who puts "suitable for vegetarians" on the boxes. I believe this is misleading and am speaking with Trading Standards. The company respond by claiming most veggies "don't care" whether eggs or free range or not. I disagree; in my opinion, veggies care very much, which is why free range eggs are more readily available nowadays - due to consumer pressure. However, maybe I'm revolving in my own little bubble on this. A straw poll opinion would be useful - I have a handful of veggie friends I can ask and a few off here would be useful. TIA. Deb |
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Free range Egg Question
"Plug" > wrote in message ... > I know this is a vegan site, but some of you have veggie friends, so might > be able to help me with my query. I am tackling a supplier of battery eggs > in this country (UK) who puts "suitable for vegetarians" on the boxes. I > believe this is misleading and am speaking with Trading Standards. The > company respond by claiming most veggies "don't care" whether eggs or free > range or not. I disagree; in my opinion, veggies care very much, which is > why free range eggs are more readily available nowadays - due to consumer > pressure. However, maybe I'm revolving in my own little bubble on this. A > straw poll opinion would be useful - I have a handful of veggie friends I > can ask and a few off here would be useful. TIA. Deb I prefer range-free eggs but I'm not absolutely discriminating. I hardly ever eat eggs anyway. Technically speaking, eggs are "suitable for vegetarians" whether they are range free or not. There's nothing deceptive or misleading about advertising that on the carton, though it does seem unnecessary to do so. |
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Free range Egg Question
Plug wrote:
> I know this is a vegan site, but some of you have veggie friends, so might > be able to help me with my query. I am tackling a supplier of battery eggs > in this country (UK) who puts "suitable for vegetarians" on the boxes. I > believe this is misleading and am speaking with Trading Standards. The > company respond by claiming most veggies "don't care" whether eggs or free > range or not. I disagree; in my opinion, veggies care very much, which is > why free range eggs are more readily available nowadays - due to consumer > pressure. However, maybe I'm revolving in my own little bubble on this. A > straw poll opinion would be useful - I have a handful of veggie friends I > can ask and a few off here would be useful. TIA. Deb I think you're confusing two separate issues: vegetarianism and AR. One can be vegetarian without being pro-animal rights. That would include me, though I don't eat eggs, as well as MANY others who are vegetarian solely for personal health purposes. Hence, the company is right that there *are* vegetarians who don't care about specific agricultural practices that keep ARs in knotted knickers. I further think the company's right since "vegans" comprise a minority of vegetarians and AR is a *very* marginal pseudo-philosophy in the political spectrum (even in the UK). |
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Free range Egg Question
C. James Strutz wrote:
<snip> > Technically speaking, eggs are "suitable for vegetarians" whether they are > range free or not. There's nothing deceptive or misleading about advertising > that on the carton, though it does seem unnecessary to do so. It may seem unnecessary, but it's a marketing ploy used with great success for a variety of other claims. For example, just take a look at how many things are now labelled "low-carb." |
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Free range Egg Question
C. James Strutz wrote:
> "Plug" > wrote in message > ... > >>I know this is a vegan site, but some of you have veggie friends, so might >>be able to help me with my query. I am tackling a supplier of battery > > eggs > >>in this country (UK) who puts "suitable for vegetarians" on the boxes. I >>believe this is misleading and am speaking with Trading Standards. The >>company respond by claiming most veggies "don't care" whether eggs or free >>range or not. I disagree; in my opinion, veggies care very much, which is >>why free range eggs are more readily available nowadays - due to consumer >>pressure. However, maybe I'm revolving in my own little bubble on this. > > A > >>straw poll opinion would be useful - I have a handful of veggie friends I >>can ask and a few off here would be useful. TIA. Deb > > > I prefer range-free eggs but I'm not absolutely discriminating. I hardly > ever eat eggs anyway. > > Technically speaking, eggs are "suitable for vegetarians" whether they are > range free or not. No, that's absolutely false. 1. Eggs are not vegetable matter; they are 100% animal, including a "healthy" (huh) dose of cholesterol. NO vegetable matter contains cholesterol. 2. If your vegetarianism is politically motivated, i.e. based on notions of "animal rights", then eggs are ABSOLUTELY forbidden. On that view, they are a product "stolen" from animals that "aras"/"vegans" believe should not exist in the first place. Eggs are not vegetarian - full stop. |
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Free range Egg Question
"Plug" > wrote in message ... > I know this is a vegan site, but some of you have veggie friends, so might > be able to help me with my query. I am tackling a supplier of battery eggs > in this country (UK) who puts "suitable for vegetarians" on the boxes. I > believe this is misleading and am speaking with Trading Standards. The > company respond by claiming most veggies "don't care" whether eggs or free > range or not. I disagree; in my opinion, veggies care very much, which is > why free range eggs are more readily available nowadays - due to consumer > pressure. However, maybe I'm revolving in my own little bubble on this. A > straw poll opinion would be useful - I have a handful of veggie friends I > can ask and a few off here would be useful. TIA. Deb I think you should just buy your eggs from someone else instead of trying to fight the system. I still don't understand why so-called "non dairy creamers" have milk products in them. That doesn't mean I can make the companies stop calling their products that. -Rubystars |
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Free range Egg Question
Read what Cecil Adams, writer of the Straight Dope
column, has to say about "cage free" and "free range" eggs and chickens: http://www.straightdope.com/columns/031121.html Plug wrote: > I know this is a vegan site, but some of you have veggie friends, so might > be able to help me with my query. I am tackling a supplier of battery eggs > in this country (UK) who puts "suitable for vegetarians" on the boxes. I > believe this is misleading and am speaking with Trading Standards. The > company respond by claiming most veggies "don't care" whether eggs or free > range or not. I disagree; in my opinion, veggies care very much, which is > why free range eggs are more readily available nowadays - due to consumer > pressure. However, maybe I'm revolving in my own little bubble on this. A > straw poll opinion would be useful - I have a handful of veggie friends I > can ask and a few off here would be useful. TIA. Deb > > |
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Free range Egg Question
"Jonathan Ball" > wrote in message hlink.net... > C. James Strutz wrote: > > Technically speaking, eggs are "suitable for vegetarians" whether they are > > range free or not. > > No, that's absolutely false. > > 1. Eggs are not vegetable matter; they are 100% > animal, including a "healthy" (huh) dose of > cholesterol. NO vegetable matter contains > cholesterol. > > 2. If your vegetarianism is politically motivated, i.e. > based on notions of "animal rights", then eggs > are ABSOLUTELY forbidden. On that view, they are > a product "stolen" from animals that "aras"/"vegans" > believe should not exist in the first place. > > Eggs are not vegetarian - full stop. If you're implying that all vegetarians don't consume anything that contains cholesterol then you are wrong. Vegans, ovo-vegetarians, and lacto-vegetarians are all subsets of 'vegetarians'. Some vegetarians eat eggs. |
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Free range Egg Question
C. James Strutz wrote:
> "Jonathan Ball" > wrote in message > hlink.net... > >>C. James Strutz wrote: > > >>>Technically speaking, eggs are "suitable for vegetarians" whether they > > are > >>>range free or not. >> >>No, that's absolutely false. >> >>1. Eggs are not vegetable matter; they are 100% >> animal, including a "healthy" (huh) dose of >> cholesterol. NO vegetable matter contains >> cholesterol. >> >>2. If your vegetarianism is politically motivated, i.e. >> based on notions of "animal rights", then eggs >> are ABSOLUTELY forbidden. On that view, they are >> a product "stolen" from animals that "aras"/"vegans" >> believe should not exist in the first place. >> >>Eggs are not vegetarian - full stop. > > > If you're implying that all vegetarians don't consume anything that contains > cholesterol then you are wrong. IF they consume cholesterol, they are consuming animal parts. Cholesterol only occurs in animals. > Vegans, ovo-vegetarians, and > lacto-vegetarians are all subsets of 'vegetarians'. "Ovo-" and "lacto-" are disgusting bits of sophistry. They are excuse-making by people who want to claim (what they stupidly imagine to be) cachet of "vegetarian", but who don't have the discipline or imagination to be vegetarians. They are not vegetarian. If you eat parts of animals or products that directly come from animals, you are not vegetarian. Period. > Some vegetarians eat eggs. No vegetarians eat eggs. If you eat eggs, you aren't vegetarian. It's that simple. |
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Free range Egg Question
Plug > wrote in message =
... > I know this is a vegan site, but some of you have veggie friends, so = might > be able to help me with my query. I am tackling a supplier of = battery eggs > in this country (UK) who puts "suitable for vegetarians" on the boxes. = I > believe this is misleading and am speaking with Trading Standards. = The > company respond by claiming most veggies "don't care" whether eggs or = free > range or not. I disagree; in my opinion, veggies care very much, = which is > why free range eggs are more readily available nowadays - due to = consumer > pressure. However, maybe I'm revolving in my own little bubble on = this. A > straw poll opinion would be useful - I have a handful of veggie = friends I > can ask and a few off here would be useful. TIA. Deb I'm still vegetarian, and buy the odd box of eggs.=20 I usually buy locally produced free range eggs from a farm which feeds = their chickens a vegetarian GM free diet. Sarah --=20 |
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Free range Egg Question
Sarah Carter wrote:
> Plug > wrote in message ... > >>I know this is a vegan site, but some of you have veggie friends, so might >>be able to help me with my query. I am tackling a supplier of battery eggs >>in this country (UK) who puts "suitable for vegetarians" on the boxes. I >>believe this is misleading and am speaking with Trading Standards. The >>company respond by claiming most veggies "don't care" whether eggs or free >>range or not. I disagree; in my opinion, veggies care very much, which is >>why free range eggs are more readily available nowadays - due to consumer >>pressure. However, maybe I'm revolving in my own little bubble on this. A >>straw poll opinion would be useful - I have a handful of veggie friends I >>can ask and a few off here would be useful. TIA. Deb > > > I'm still vegetarian, and buy the odd box of eggs. If you eat them, you're not vegetarian. Eggs are 100% animal, and animals are not vegetarian. There is no such thing as 'ovo-vegetarian'. If you eat eggs, you're not vegetarian: full stop. > > I usually buy locally produced free range eggs from a farm which feeds their chickens a vegetarian GM free diet. > > Sarah |
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Free range Egg Question
Jonathan Ball > wrote in message thlink.net>...
> Sarah Carter wrote: > > > Plug > wrote in message ... > > > >>I know this is a vegan site, but some of you have veggie friends, so might > >>be able to help me with my query. I am tackling a supplier of battery eggs > >>in this country (UK) who puts "suitable for vegetarians" on the boxes. I > >>believe this is misleading and am speaking with Trading Standards. The > >>company respond by claiming most veggies "don't care" whether eggs or free > >>range or not. I disagree; in my opinion, veggies care very much, which is > >>why free range eggs are more readily available nowadays - due to consumer > >>pressure. However, maybe I'm revolving in my own little bubble on this. A > >>straw poll opinion would be useful - I have a handful of veggie friends I > >>can ask and a few off here would be useful. TIA. Deb > > > > > > I'm still vegetarian, and buy the odd box of eggs. > > If you eat them, you're not vegetarian. Eggs are 100% > animal, and animals are not vegetarian. > > There is no such thing as 'ovo-vegetarian'. If you eat > eggs, you're not vegetarian: full stop. At last we agree on something. > > > > I usually buy locally produced free range eggs from a farm which feeds their chickens a vegetarian GM free diet. > > > > Sarah |
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Free range Egg Question
On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:23:50 +0000 (UTC), "Plug" > wrote:
>I know this is a vegan site, but some of you have veggie friends, so might >be able to help me with my query. I am tackling a supplier of battery eggs >in this country (UK) who puts "suitable for vegetarians" on the boxes. I >believe this is misleading and am speaking with Trading Standards. The >company respond by claiming most veggies "don't care" whether eggs or free >range or not. People who don't want there to be farm animals are opposed to any type of egg production, even if it provides decent lives for thousands, millions, billions... of laying hens. >I disagree; in my opinion, veggies care very much, which is >why free range eggs are more readily available nowadays - due to consumer >pressure. Where are these people who want to promote decent lives for farm animals with their diet? They sure don't post around here. All we see is opposition to a suggestion like that. Don't ever lose sight of the fact that veg*nism does *not* promote life of any kind for farm animals, and that's the whole idea. If you or anyone wants to contribute to decent lives for farm animals with your diet, keep in mind that you can't do it by being veg*n. >However, maybe I'm revolving in my own little bubble on this. A >straw poll opinion would be useful - I have a handful of veggie friends I >can ask and a few off here would be useful. TIA. Deb > |
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Free range Egg dump
How about an infinity of hens in a capitalist's henhouse? Now THAT'S
compassion! JJ > wrote in message ... > On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:23:50 +0000 (UTC), "Plug" > wrote: > > >I know this is a vegan site, but some of you have veggie friends, so might > >be able to help me with my query. I am tackling a supplier of battery eggs > >in this country (UK) who puts "suitable for vegetarians" on the boxes. I > >believe this is misleading and am speaking with Trading Standards. The > >company respond by claiming most veggies "don't care" whether eggs or free > >range or not. > > People who don't want there to be farm animals are opposed to any type > of egg production, even if it provides decent lives for thousands, millions, > billions... of laying hens. > > >I disagree; in my opinion, veggies care very much, which is > >why free range eggs are more readily available nowadays - due to consumer > >pressure. > > Where are these people who want to promote decent lives for farm animals > with their diet? They sure don't post around here. All we see is opposition to > a suggestion like that. Don't ever lose sight of the fact that veg*nism does > *not* promote life of any kind for farm animals, and that's the whole idea. If you > or anyone wants to contribute to decent lives for farm animals with your diet, > keep in mind that you can't do it by being veg*n. > > >However, maybe I'm revolving in my own little bubble on this. A > >straw poll opinion would be useful - I have a handful of veggie friends I > >can ask and a few off here would be useful. TIA. Deb > > > |
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Free range Egg Question
> On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:23:50 +0000 (UTC), "Plug" > wrote: >>I know this is a vegan site, but some of you have veggie friends, so might >>be able to help me with my query. I am tackling a supplier of battery eggs >>in this country (UK) who puts "suitable for vegetarians" on the boxes. I >>believe this is misleading and am speaking with Trading Standards. The >>company respond by claiming most veggies "don't care" whether eggs or free >>range or not. <snip> >>I disagree; in my opinion, veggies care very much, which is >>why free range eggs are more readily available nowadays - due to consumer >>pressure. <snip> I certainly think any ethical vegetarian would care about the way the hens are treated. I don't see eggs themselves as sentient, and if they are unfertilized the issue wouldn't even arise, so I don't see why unfertilized eggs would be an ethical issue in themselves. But certainly, the welfare of the hens would be. Rat |
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Free range Egg dump
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 04:24:06 +0000 (UTC), "John Jones" > wrote:
>How about an infinity of hens in a capitalist's henhouse? Caged hens, or cage free? >Now THAT'S >compassion! >JJ > > wrote in message .. . >> On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:23:50 +0000 (UTC), "Plug" > >wrote: >> >> >I know this is a vegan site, but some of you have veggie friends, so >might >> >be able to help me with my query. I am tackling a supplier of battery >eggs >> >in this country (UK) who puts "suitable for vegetarians" on the boxes. I >> >believe this is misleading and am speaking with Trading Standards. The >> >company respond by claiming most veggies "don't care" whether eggs or >free >> >range or not. >> >> People who don't want there to be farm animals are opposed to any type >> of egg production, even if it provides decent lives for thousands, >millions, >> billions... of laying hens. >> >> >I disagree; in my opinion, veggies care very much, which is >> >why free range eggs are more readily available nowadays - due to consumer >> >pressure. >> >> Where are these people who want to promote decent lives for farm >animals >> with their diet? They sure don't post around here. All we see is >opposition to >> a suggestion like that. Don't ever lose sight of the fact that veg*nism >does >> *not* promote life of any kind for farm animals, and that's the whole >idea. If you >> or anyone wants to contribute to decent lives for farm animals with your >diet, >> keep in mind that you can't do it by being veg*n. >> >> >However, maybe I'm revolving in my own little bubble on this. A >> >straw poll opinion would be useful - I have a handful of veggie friends I >> >can ask and a few off here would be useful. TIA. Deb >> > >> > |
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Free range Egg Question
"Rat & Swan" > wrote in message ... > > > > > > On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:23:50 +0000 (UTC), "Plug" > wrote: > > >>I know this is a vegan site, but some of you have veggie friends, so might > >>be able to help me with my query. I am tackling a supplier of battery eggs > >>in this country (UK) who puts "suitable for vegetarians" on the boxes. I > >>believe this is misleading and am speaking with Trading Standards. The > >>company respond by claiming most veggies "don't care" whether eggs or free > >>range or not. > > <snip> > > >>I disagree; in my opinion, veggies care very much, which is > >>why free range eggs are more readily available nowadays - due to consumer > >>pressure. > > <snip> > > I certainly think any ethical vegetarian would care about the way the > hens are treated. I don't see eggs themselves as sentient, and > if they are unfertilized the issue wouldn't even arise, so I don't > see why unfertilized eggs would be an ethical issue in themselves. > But certainly, the welfare of the hens would be. > > Rat There would also be breeding operations going on there if the company expected to continue egg production into the future. Another concern would be the fate of male chicks. -Rubystars |
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Free range Egg Question
"Rat & Swan" > wrote in message ... > > > > > > On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:23:50 +0000 (UTC), "Plug" > wrote: > > >>I know this is a vegan site, but some of you have veggie friends, so might > >>be able to help me with my query. I am tackling a supplier of battery eggs > >>in this country (UK) who puts "suitable for vegetarians" on the boxes. I > >>believe this is misleading and am speaking with Trading Standards. The > >>company respond by claiming most veggies "don't care" whether eggs or free > >>range or not. > > <snip> > > >>I disagree; in my opinion, veggies care very much, which is > >>why free range eggs are more readily available nowadays - due to consumer > >>pressure. > > <snip> > > I certainly think any ethical vegetarian would care about the way the > hens are treated. I don't see eggs themselves as sentient, and > if they are unfertilized the issue wouldn't even arise, so I don't > see why unfertilized eggs would be an ethical issue in themselves. > But certainly, the welfare of the hens would be. > > Rat I agree, but so far as UK trading standards are concerned the supplier is not in breach of the law. They have no guidlines - 'vegetarians' and 'ethical vegetarians'. I would not touch battery produced eggs and am also a little suspect of so called 'barn eggs'. Ray > |
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Free range Egg dump
It just blows my mind how hot certain people get over this particular issue.
Scott > wrote in message ... > On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 04:24:06 +0000 (UTC), "John Jones" > wrote: > > >How about an infinity of hens in a capitalist's henhouse? > > Caged hens, or cage free? > > >Now THAT'S > >compassion! > >JJ > > > > wrote in message > .. . > >> On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:23:50 +0000 (UTC), "Plug" > > >wrote: > >> > >> >I know this is a vegan site, but some of you have veggie friends, so > >might > >> >be able to help me with my query. I am tackling a supplier of battery > >eggs > >> >in this country (UK) who puts "suitable for vegetarians" on the boxes. I > >> >believe this is misleading and am speaking with Trading Standards. The > >> >company respond by claiming most veggies "don't care" whether eggs or > >free > >> >range or not. > >> > >> People who don't want there to be farm animals are opposed to any type > >> of egg production, even if it provides decent lives for thousands, > >millions, > >> billions... of laying hens. > >> > >> >I disagree; in my opinion, veggies care very much, which is > >> >why free range eggs are more readily available nowadays - due to consumer > >> >pressure. > >> > >> Where are these people who want to promote decent lives for farm > >animals > >> with their diet? They sure don't post around here. All we see is > >opposition to > >> a suggestion like that. Don't ever lose sight of the fact that veg*nism > >does > >> *not* promote life of any kind for farm animals, and that's the whole > >idea. If you > >> or anyone wants to contribute to decent lives for farm animals with your > >diet, > >> keep in mind that you can't do it by being veg*n. > >> > >> >However, maybe I'm revolving in my own little bubble on this. A > >> >straw poll opinion would be useful - I have a handful of veggie friends I > >> >can ask and a few off here would be useful. TIA. Deb > >> > > >> > > > |
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Free range Egg dump
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 20:33:20 -0500, "Miller" > wrote:
>It just blows my mind how hot certain people get over this particular issue. > >Scott Over which particular issue? If you mean cage free eggs in particular, think about this situation: There are four hens in a cage that is so low they can't flap their wings. They don't have much room to move around at all. They are on wire mesh, so they can't scratch or take a dust bath. If you were in such a position you might think it was overly restrictive. I think it is. Let's go on with it a bit to something I never see the "ARAs" point out, but it's a huge factor to me: sometimes one or more of the hens will single out and beat on another hen. Sometimes the abused hen will pull her head out of the corner, and head toward another part of the cage...one of the abusers will beat on her and send her another direction ....another abuser will beat on her over there...she will try to get away from them but can't, so will eventually burry her head in a corner again to keep it from getting beaten on. Every time she pulls her head out she gets beaten on, and she lives in fear all of the time. If you just don't care about things like that, then that's just the type of person you are and you're not likely to ever understand why any people would consider it significant. Do you think there are any animal related situations that people should get hot about? If so, which ones? |
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Free range Egg dump
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Free range Egg Question
Rubystars wrote:
> "Rat & Swan" > wrote in message > ... > >> >> >> >>>On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:23:50 +0000 (UTC), "Plug" > > > wrote: > >>>>I know this is a vegan site, but some of you have veggie friends, so > > might > >>>>be able to help me with my query. I am tackling a supplier of battery > > eggs > >>>>in this country (UK) who puts "suitable for vegetarians" on the boxes. > > I > >>>>believe this is misleading and am speaking with Trading Standards. The >>>>company respond by claiming most veggies "don't care" whether eggs or > > free > >>>>range or not. >> >><snip> >> >>>>I disagree; in my opinion, veggies care very much, which is >>>>why free range eggs are more readily available nowadays - due to > > consumer > >>>>pressure. >> >><snip> >> >>I certainly think any ethical vegetarian would care about the way the >>hens are treated. I don't see eggs themselves as sentient, and >>if they are unfertilized the issue wouldn't even arise, so I don't >>see why unfertilized eggs would be an ethical issue in themselves. >>But certainly, the welfare of the hens would be. >> >>Rat > > > There would also be breeding operations going on there if the company > expected to continue egg production into the future. Another concern would > be the fate of male chicks. Does the same principal apply to milk products because most bull calves end up as veal? > > -Rubystars > > |
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Free range Egg Question
Ray wrote: <snip> > I agree, but so far as UK trading standards are concerned the supplier is > not in breach of the law. They have no guidlines - 'vegetarians' and > 'ethical vegetarians'. I would not touch battery produced eggs and am also a > little suspect of so called 'barn eggs'. You should be. I don't know about conditions in the UK, but here in the US there are no real standards for so-called "free-range" chickens except that they not be kept in cages. I've visited a "free-range" facility, and it was nothing more than a big building filled with birds crowded wing-to-wing -- filthy, with air choking with dust and ammonia, with no source of water except a trough filled with a grey sludge of fecal-contaminated water. That was what turned me from vegetarian to vegan. Rat |
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Free range Egg Question
"Elmo" > wrote in message ... > Rubystars wrote: > > > "Rat & Swan" > wrote in message > > ... > > > >> > >> > >> > >>>On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:23:50 +0000 (UTC), "Plug" > > > > > wrote: > > > >>>>I know this is a vegan site, but some of you have veggie friends, so > > > > might > > > >>>>be able to help me with my query. I am tackling a supplier of battery > > > > eggs > > > >>>>in this country (UK) who puts "suitable for vegetarians" on the boxes. > > > > I > > > >>>>believe this is misleading and am speaking with Trading Standards. The > >>>>company respond by claiming most veggies "don't care" whether eggs or > > > > free > > > >>>>range or not. > >> > >><snip> > >> > >>>>I disagree; in my opinion, veggies care very much, which is > >>>>why free range eggs are more readily available nowadays - due to > > > > consumer > > > >>>>pressure. > >> > >><snip> > >> > >>I certainly think any ethical vegetarian would care about the way the > >>hens are treated. I don't see eggs themselves as sentient, and > >>if they are unfertilized the issue wouldn't even arise, so I don't > >>see why unfertilized eggs would be an ethical issue in themselves. > >>But certainly, the welfare of the hens would be. > >> > >>Rat > > > > > > There would also be breeding operations going on there if the company > > expected to continue egg production into the future. Another concern would > > be the fate of male chicks. > > Does the same principal apply to milk products because most bull calves > end up as veal? check the figures, very little veal eaten in proportion to the amount of beef |
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Free range Egg Question
"Elmo" > wrote in message ... > Rubystars wrote: > > > "Rat & Swan" > wrote in message > > ... > > > >> > >> > >> > >>>On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:23:50 +0000 (UTC), "Plug" > > > > > wrote: > > > >>>>I know this is a vegan site, but some of you have veggie friends, so > > > > might > > > >>>>be able to help me with my query. I am tackling a supplier of battery > > > > eggs > > > >>>>in this country (UK) who puts "suitable for vegetarians" on the boxes. > > > > I > > > >>>>believe this is misleading and am speaking with Trading Standards. The > >>>>company respond by claiming most veggies "don't care" whether eggs or > > > > free > > > >>>>range or not. > >> > >><snip> > >> > >>>>I disagree; in my opinion, veggies care very much, which is > >>>>why free range eggs are more readily available nowadays - due to > > > > consumer > > > >>>>pressure. > >> > >><snip> > >> > >>I certainly think any ethical vegetarian would care about the way the > >>hens are treated. I don't see eggs themselves as sentient, and > >>if they are unfertilized the issue wouldn't even arise, so I don't > >>see why unfertilized eggs would be an ethical issue in themselves. > >>But certainly, the welfare of the hens would be. > >> > >>Rat > > > > > > There would also be breeding operations going on there if the company > > expected to continue egg production into the future. Another concern would > > be the fate of male chicks. > > Does the same principal apply to milk products because most bull calves > end up as veal? The fate of male calves on dairy farms is also a concern. -Rubystars |
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Free range Egg Question
Elmo wrote: <snip> >>> I certainly think any ethical vegetarian would care about the way the >>> hens are treated. I don't see eggs themselves as sentient, and >>> if they are unfertilized the issue wouldn't even arise, so I don't >>> see why unfertilized eggs would be an ethical issue in themselves. >>> But certainly, the welfare of the hens would be. >>> Rat <snip> > Does the same principal apply to milk products because most bull calves > end up as veal? Absolutely. In theory, if a cow were treated as a genuine companion animal, allowed to pick her own mate (bull), nurse her calf herself, and remain in the society of her own herd, taking _surplus_ milk beyond that required by the calf -- as long as the cow was tame enough that the process did not stress her -- would not, IMO, be a violation of AR principles, any more than using the same cow's dung as fertilizer. But such a situation is almost impossible in our modern world as it exists, and, certainly, is not found in dairy farms which produce commercial milk products. Rat |
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Free range Egg Question
> Does the same principal apply to milk products because most bull calves > end up as veal? > > -Rubystars "most" bulls calves do not end up as veal. This was true in the past but has not ben true for some time now. Kala Thompson Farmer Richland Center, Wi -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- |
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Free range Egg Question
> The fate of male calves on dairy farms is also a concern.
> -Rubystars The vast majority of dairy bull calves end up being raised for beef, not veal. For some breeds of dairy cows like Jerseys (the breed of cow we have) no bull calves end up as veal. Most of our bull calves are sold in groups of 2 or 3 to people who wish to raise them for their own eating. Most of these people use rotational grazing to rais these calves. A small number are raised as breeding bulls. Kala Thompson Farmer Richland Center, Wi -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- |
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Free range Egg Question
> Absolutely. In theory, if a cow were treated as a genuine companion > animal, allowed to pick her own mate (bull), Cows don't pick their own mates. Their wild relitives don't either. In the wild the bulls fight among themselves and the winner breeds the cows. The cows don't care who he is and is given the oppertunity will mate with every bull that attemps to breed them as long as they are in standing heat. The idea that people force cows to mate with bulls not of their choosing is a myth as cows make no attempt to prevent ANY bull (or other cow for that matter) from breeding them. Kala Thompson Farmer Richland Center, Wi -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- |
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Free range Egg Question
I've visited a "free-range" > facility, and it was nothing more than a big building filled with birds > crowded wing-to-wing -- filthy, with air choking with dust and > ammonia, with no source of water except a trough filled with a grey > sludge of fecal-contaminated water. That was what turned me from > vegetarian to vegan. > > Rat We raise chickens on our farm. They are truely "free range" They are penned at night in a portable coop for their own protection. Early in the morning the door to the coop is opened and the chicken spend the day wandering about the pasture eating bugs, seeds and digging through the cow manure for any grain that passed through the cows. Each night after the birds are locked up the portable pen is moved to a new pasture. The chickens follow the cows two or three days behind in the pasture rotation. This is similar to the natural cycle of wild birds following large herds. As an added benifit the chickens almost eliminate any fly problems for the cows by scratching through the cow pies and eliminating a place for the fly larva to grow. We keep a couple roosters with the hens. Every spring we have several batches of chicks. Whatever roosters are left in the fall that we don't need we eat. Kala Thompson Farmer Richland Center, Wi -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- |
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Free range Egg dump
> wrote in message ... > On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 20:33:20 -0500, "Miller" > wrote: > > >It just blows my mind how hot certain people get over this particular issue. > > > >Scott > > Over which particular issue? If you mean cage free eggs > in particular, think about this situation: There are four hens > in a cage that is so low they can't flap their wings. They don't > have much room to move around at all. They are on wire > mesh, so they can't scratch or take a dust bath. If you were > in such a position you might think it was overly restrictive. I > think it is. Let's go on with it a bit to something I never see > the "ARAs" point out, but it's a huge factor to me: sometimes > one or more of the hens will single out and beat on another > hen. Sometimes the abused hen will pull her head out of the > corner, and head toward another part of the cage...one of > the abusers will beat on her and send her another direction > ...another abuser will beat on her over there...she will try to > get away from them but can't, so will eventually burry her > head in a corner again to keep it from getting beaten on. > Every time she pulls her head out she gets beaten on, and > she lives in fear all of the time. If you just don't care about > things like that, then that's just the type of person you are > and you're not likely to ever understand why any people > would consider it significant. > Do you think there are any animal related situations > that people should get hot about? If so, which ones? I mean, go out and do something about it then, for crissakes! Do you think ranting on internet newsgroups about anything ever does any good? Scott |
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Free range Egg Question
"Russ Thompson" > wrote in message ... > > > > Does the same principal apply to milk products because most bull calves > > end up as veal? > > > -Rubystars > > "most" bulls calves do not end up as veal. This was true in the past but has > not ben true for some time now. > > Kala Thompson > Farmer > Richland Center, Wi I didn't make that statement but I'm glad to know. -Rubystars |
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Free range Egg Question
"Russ Thompson" > wrote in message ... > > The fate of male calves on dairy farms is also a concern. > > -Rubystars > > The vast majority of dairy bull calves end up being raised for beef, not > veal. For some breeds of dairy cows like Jerseys (the breed of cow we have) > no bull calves end up as veal. > Most of our bull calves are sold in groups of 2 or 3 to people who wish > to raise them for their own eating. Most of these people use rotational > grazing to rais these calves. A small number are raised as breeding bulls. > > Kala Thompson > Farmer > Richland Center, Wi Ok thanks for the info! -Rubystars |
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Free range Egg Question
"Russ Thompson" > wrote in message ... > > > > Does the same principal apply to milk products because most bull calves > > end up as veal? > > > -Rubystars > > "most" bulls calves do not end up as veal. This was true in the past but has > not ben true for some time now. Most bull calves do not end up as veal in the UK or Europe generally |
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Free range Egg Question
In message >, Russ Thompson
> writes > > >> Does the same principal apply to milk products because most bull calves >> end up as veal? >> > -Rubystars > >"most" bulls calves do not end up as veal. This was true in the past but has >not ben true for some time now. > >Kala Thompson >Farmer >Richland Center, Wi Sorry to be ignorant, but where is the 'Richland Center, Wi'? Somewhere in the US? -- Five Cats Email to: cats_spam at uk2 dot net |
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Free range Egg Question
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Free range Egg Question
In message >, Mike Marshall
> writes writes: >>Don't ever lose sight of the fact that veg*nism does >>*not* promote life of any kind for farm animals, and that's the whole idea. > >That's crazy. If everyone was a vegan, there'd still be lots of cows, >running around in giant herds, like buffalos, and wild chickens flapping >around everywhere, and pigs too... Busy eating the crops we are feeding ourselves on? I don't think so. > >Oh never mind... > >-Mike -- Five Cats Email to: cats_spam at uk2 dot net |
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Free range Egg Question
"Russ Thompson" > wrote in message >...
> I've visited a "free-range" > > facility, and it was nothing more than a big building filled with birds > > crowded wing-to-wing -- filthy, with air choking with dust and > > ammonia, with no source of water except a trough filled with a grey > > sludge of fecal-contaminated water. That was what turned me from > > vegetarian to vegan. > > > > Rat > > We raise chickens on our farm. They are truely "free range" They are penned > at night in a portable coop for their own protection. Early in the morning > the door to the coop is opened and the chicken spend the day wandering about > the pasture eating bugs, seeds and digging through the cow manure for any > grain that passed through the cows. Each night after the birds are locked up > the portable pen is moved to a new pasture. The chickens follow the cows two > or three days behind in the pasture rotation. This is similar to the natural > cycle of wild birds following large herds. As an added benifit the chickens > almost eliminate any fly problems for the cows by scratching through the cow > pies and eliminating a place for the fly larva to grow. > We keep a couple roosters with the hens. Every spring we have several > batches of chicks. Whatever roosters are left in the fall that we don't need > we eat. > I always learn more from farmers than philosophers (seriously.) What happens to the bull calves if they don't become veal? Why do the chickens...seriously, why do they return to the coop? Are they also fed there to condition that response? How do you keep track of which roosters to keep? -tg > Kala Thompson > Farmer > Richland Center, Wi > > > > > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- > http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- |
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Free range Egg Question
"Russ Thompson" > wrote in message >...
> We raise chickens on our farm. They are truely "free range" They are penned > at night in a portable coop for their own protection. Early in the morning > the door to the coop is opened and the chicken spend the day wandering about > the pasture... I would like to get my eggs from this kind of a farm. Where can I get information on local (Pennsylvania) suppliers? |
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Free range Egg Question
> I always learn more from farmers than philosophers (seriously.)
> > What happens to the bull calves if they don't become veal? *** They are raised as beef. Most are rasied on pasture as "stockers" until 2 - 4 months before slaughter then they are put into feed lots. Most are slaughtered at 14 or so month of age. Not all are raised this way. Some are raised on pasture only and sold as "grass fed" beef. Some are put into a feed lot much sooner. Some (about 20%) are raised to 4 months and slaughtered as veal, though fewer and fewer are raised as veal every year. All this applies to holsteins witch make up 94% of the dairy cattle in the USA. Other breeds like jerseys (witch we have) are very rarely used as veal and never in comercial veal operations. That vast majority of jersey bull calves are raised as grass fed beef. Jerseys are poor converters of grain to beef and so are not often used in feed lots. They are also famous for producing high qualiety beef on grass alone. Most people who raise jersey bull calves do so for their own eating or for direct marketing. > Why do the chickens...seriously, why do they return to the coop? *** That's their "home". When we have new chickens we lock them up in the coop for a week or so and from then on they will always return at night. There are roosts and nesting boxes in the coop for them and they seem to know that they are safe there. > they also fed there to condition that response? *** They are fed and watered in the coop but the feed we provide is only a small part of thier diet, about 15% of their total diet by weight. If there is no feed in the coop they will come back to it anyway. > How do you keep track of which roosters to keep? *** We see these chickens twice a day every day of the year. I know who is who. We usually keep a rooster until he gets to old and eat his sons. Sometimes we can eat the older roosters and hen but usually if they get to old to get around well they will become lunch for a hawk. Our dog protects them from all other predators but can't do anything about the hawks. Kala Thompson Farmer Richland Center, Wi USA -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- |
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