suppository wrote:
It doesn't make us buddies, though, Suppository. You
are utterly wrong on the "animal rights" stuff.

That is YOUR opinion.

Actually, he's right in his assertions about AR.

I happened to like your joke about Bush, but that does not
mean I do not believe that he was entirely wrong for going
to war against Saddam Hussein. Nor does it mean that you
should have posted it here, on a pro-animal rights newsgroup.

Which group listed is "pro" AR?

Why are you here, then, if you are an anti-animal rightist?

There are at least two sides to every issue. Why can't you candidly
answer any of the ones that oppose your misguided beliefs?

suppository wrote:
Tod wrote in message nk.net...


It doesn't make us buddies, though, Suppository. You
are utterly wrong on the "animal rights" stuff.


That is YOUR opinion.

A well researched, solidly founded opinion, unlike your
hypersentimental, irrational one.

I happened to like your joke about Bush,

It's about Ashcroft, moron.

but that does not
mean I do not believe that he was entirely wrong for going
to war against Saddam Hussein. Nor does it mean that you
should have posted it here, on a pro-animal rights newsgroup.

This is not a pro-animal rights newsgroup, dummy.

Why are you here, then, if you are an anti-animal rightist?

To tell "animal rights 'activists'" why they are wrong.

On 6 Nov 2003 22:19:16 -0800, (exploratory)
wrote:

Tod wrote in message nk.net...

It doesn't make us buddies, though, Suppository. You
are utterly wrong on the "animal rights" stuff.

That is YOUR opinion.
I happened to like your joke about Bush, but that does not
mean I do not believe that he was entirely wrong for going
to war against Saddam Hussein. Nor does it mean that you
should have posted it here, on a pro-animal rights newsgroup.
Why are you here, then, if you are an anti-animal rightist?

P E T A

People Eating Tasty Animals

Rat & Swan wrote:



Rick wrote:

Another sniveling, goose stepping Bushzi -

Good term -- I'll have to remember it.

Have you seen the step-by-step comparison between Bush's
takeover and the Nazi takeover in 1933-4? It's almost
a one-to-one correspondence. We are living is a fascist
state, quite literally. We had a chancellor appointed
without an electoral majority, the rounding up of
political opponents into the first concentration camp at
Guantanomo, our Reichstag fire ( 9/11 -- there's
evidence Bush knew about it beforehand, just as Hitler
knew the Reichstag fire was planned, but didn't know the
details personally), followed by our Enabling Act (the
Patriot Act) gutting civil rights. Like Hitler, Bush
has tried to turn people's attention away from
domestic problems by Glorious Foreign War, but his
Stalingrad has come a bit earlier than Hitler's. But,
unlike Hitler, who took a country in a depression and
revived the economy (temporarily), Bush has CREATED
a depression and destroyed the healthy economy and
surplus he inherited from Clinton.

See you in the camps! (it's become a greeting around here).

"Many political words are similarly abused. The word
Fascism has now no meaning except in so far as it
signifies 'something not desirable.'"

George Orwell - Politics and the English Language, 1946

Same goes for "Nazi". It has no meaning, especially
coming from you.

Glad to see someone's got the courage to expose the so-called "War on
Terrorism" for what it is. the "War on Terror" consists of the same warfare
and civil liberties violations the terrorists want, served to them on a
silver platter. Just wish he'd had his facts right before raising this
important issue.
Have you seen the step-by-step comparison between Bush's
takeover and the Nazi takeover in 1933-4? It's almost
a one-to-one correspondence. We are living is a fascist
state, quite literally. We had a chancellor appointed
without an electoral majority,
Big fat hairy deal. This isn't an absolute republic, this is a polity
governed by a Constitution that provides for an electoral college.
It's true that we'll never know who really won Florida. It might have
been Gore, but it was probably Bush.
the rounding up of
political opponents into the first concentration camp at
Guantanomo,
It's jumping the gun to conclude that it's a "concentration camp,"
although I see your point. The prisoners, who are within the Federal
Government's sovreign territory, have been denied their right to due
process, so any civilians in there have no recourse. Bush even refuses to
release a list of the prisoners' names. and they've probably been tortured
during interrogations. (Some have died during interrogations, and Rumsfeld
has hinted that sleep deprivation and rough treatment were going to be used.
Amnesty International wasn't allowed to visit the prison.)
our Reichstag fire ( 9/11 -- there's
evidence Bush knew about it beforehand, just as Hitler
knew the Reichstag fire was planned,
Nothing even remotely conclusive. Bush is using 9/11 as an excuse for
robbing his subjects of their freedom the same way Hitler used the Reichstag
Fire as an excuse for just about everything he did, but the bureaucratic
incompetence preceding 9/11 was probably a far cry from Bush knowing about
it beforehand.
but didn't know the
details personally), followed by our Enabling Act (the
Patriot Act) gutting civil rights. Like Hitler, Bush
has tried to turn people's attention away from
domestic problems by Glorious Foreign War, but his
Stalingrad has come a bit earlier than Hitler's. But,
unlike Hitler, who took a country in a depression and
revived the economy (temporarily), Bush has CREATED
a depression and destroyed the healthy economy and
surplus he inherited from Clinton.

See you in the camps! (it's become a greeting around here).

"Many political words are similarly abused. The word
Fascism has now no meaning except in so far as it
signifies 'something not desirable.'"

George Orwell - Politics and the English Language, 1946

Same goes for "Nazi". It has no meaning, especially
coming from you.

I can't tell who posted what here so I'll just make comments.
Anyone who compares the activities of Bush to Hitler is historically
challenged. He should be soaking his head in a bucket instead of
attempting to spread this putrid garbage. In 1933 Hitler outlawed his
principal rivals, the Communist party. As beneficial as it would be our
radical leftitists, the democrats, are still at full screech. By 1934
Hitler had outlawed any disenting press organs. No such step has been
taken in the U.S. By 1934 every officer and enlisted man in the
Reichswehr, the Luftwaffe and the Kreigsmarine was taking personal oaths
of allegiance to Adolph Hitler rather than Germany. Haven't heard that
about the U.S. Armed Forces. By then Hitler had also gained a distinct
ability to quash any film he considered inimical to the Nazi State and
to imprison thier creators. Idiots like Micheal Moore are still at large
to spew their diarrhea. By 1934 Hitler had dismissed the Reichstag. Both
houses of Congress still meet in Washington. So what is this moron
talking about? He's relying on the old leftist trick of trying to use
peoples ignorance against them. He's a foul fish. Pay his further posts
since the extent of his ignorance places instellar space to shame.

sgdunn wrote:
Glad to see someone's got the courage to expose the so-called "War on
Terrorism" for what it is. the "War on Terror" consists of the same warfare
and civil liberties violations the terrorists want, served to them on a
silver platter. Just wish he'd had his facts right before raising this
important issue.

Have you seen the step-by-step comparison between Bush's
takeover and the Nazi takeover in 1933-4? It's almost
a one-to-one correspondence. We are living is a fascist
state, quite literally. We had a chancellor appointed
without an electoral majority,

Big fat hairy deal. This isn't an absolute republic, this is a polity
governed by a Constitution that provides for an electoral college.
It's true that we'll never know who really won Florida. It might have
been Gore, but it was probably Bush.
the rounding up of

political opponents into the first concentration camp at
Guantanomo,

It's jumping the gun to conclude that it's a "concentration camp,"
although I see your point. The prisoners, who are within the Federal
Government's sovreign territory, have been denied their right to due
process, so any civilians in there have no recourse. Bush even refuses to
release a list of the prisoners' names. and they've probably been tortured
during interrogations. (Some have died during interrogations, and Rumsfeld
has hinted that sleep deprivation and rough treatment were going to be used.
Amnesty International wasn't allowed to visit the prison.)
our Reichstag fire ( 9/11 -- there's

evidence Bush knew about it beforehand, just as Hitler
knew the Reichstag fire was planned,

Nothing even remotely conclusive. Bush is using 9/11 as an excuse for
robbing his subjects of their freedom the same way Hitler used the Reichstag
Fire as an excuse for just about everything he did, but the bureaucratic
incompetence preceding 9/11 was probably a far cry from Bush knowing about
it beforehand.
but didn't know the

details personally), followed by our Enabling Act (the
Patriot Act) gutting civil rights. Like Hitler, Bush
has tried to turn people's attention away from
domestic problems by Glorious Foreign War, but his
Stalingrad has come a bit earlier than Hitler's. But,
unlike Hitler, who took a country in a depression and
revived the economy (temporarily), Bush has CREATED
a depression and destroyed the healthy economy and
surplus he inherited from Clinton.

See you in the camps! (it's become a greeting around here).

"Many political words are similarly abused. The word
Fascism has now no meaning except in so far as it
signifies 'something not desirable.'"

George Orwell - Politics and the English Language, 1946

Same goes for "Nazi". It has no meaning, especially
coming from you.






--
If you want to be free, there is but one way; it is to guarantee an
equally full measure of liberty to all your neighbors. There is no other.
Carl Schurz (1829-1906)

Rat & Swan wrote:



Rick wrote:

Another sniveling, goose stepping Bushzi -

Good term -- I'll have to remember it.

Have you seen the step-by-step comparison between Bush's
takeover and the Nazi takeover in 1933-4? It's almost
a one-to-one correspondence.

It's complete bullshit.

We are living is a fascist state, quite literally.

No, we are not. You are proving the truth of what
Orwell wrote:

"The word Fascism has now no meaning except in so
far as it signifies 'something not desirable.'"

George Orwell
"Politics and the English Language", 1946


You hate the U.S., for all the things that make it
great, most especially for being capitalist and for,
more than anyplace else, protecting individual
liberties against the collectivist tyranny you wish to
impose. Because you hate the U.S. and are a
garden-variety leftist/collectivist, you reflexively
call the U.S. "fascist", but it's only because you
don't like the U.S. from a leftist/collectivist
perspective, not because the U.S is fascist.


We had a chancellor appointed
without an electoral majority,

No, we didn't. Bush obtained a majority vote of the
Electoral College, the constitutionally provided method
of selecting the U.S. President.

Anyway, even in parliamentary countries, a prime
minister often is selected from a party that doesn't
have a parliamentary majority. That is not fascist.
AGAIN, you prove only that you hate the U.S.

the rounding up of
political opponents into the first concentration camp at
Guantanomo,

No, not "political opponents", liar. Non-citizen enemy
combatants, captured on foreign soil in combat with the
U.S. armed forces.

You just can't help lying.

our Reichstag fire ( 9/11 -- there's
evidence Bush knew about it beforehand,

Show it, liar.

just as Hitler
knew the Reichstag fire was planned, but didn't know the
details personally),

In fact, traitor, the accepted belief is that the Nazis
set the Reichstag fire. You are now accusing the U.S.
government of *committing* the 9/11 terrorist attacks,
by virtue of your fatuous comparison.

followed by our Enabling Act (the
Patriot Act) gutting civil rights.

The misnamed "Patriot" Act does not gut civil
liberties. It is a threat to some of them, and I have
hopes that the worst excesses of it will be thrown out
in court. Unlike in Nazi Germany, our courts will take
a hard look at it, and if the Supreme Court rules parts
of it unconstitutional, those parts will be discarded.
Also unlike Nazi Germany, some of the Republican
legislators who supported the passage of the act are
calling for reconsideration of parts of it. Neither
the justices nor the legislators are threatened with
imprisonment or death. Your comparison is utterly
specious.

There are parts of the "Patriot" Act that are necessary
correctives to outdated laws. One that immediately
springs to mind is the ability to obtain a wiretap
authorization on a person, not just a phone line. This
is a necessary and good change, and is not in any way
"fascist".

Like Hitler, Bush
has tried to turn people's attention away from
domestic problems by Glorious Foreign War, but his
Stalingrad has come a bit earlier than Hitler's. But,
unlike Hitler, who took a country in a depression and
revived the economy (temporarily), Bush has CREATED
a depression and destroyed the healthy economy and
surplus he inherited from Clinton.

Bush did not inherit a health economy from Clinton.
The dot-com bust began in 1999, and the downturn began
long before the election. Anyone who knows anything
about business cycles knows that downturns have their
genesis long before the actual increases in
unemployment and decreases in output.

But thanks for showing your blatant partisanship, as
well as your utter ignorance of economics.


See you in the camps! (it's become a greeting around here).

It would be. Being an extreme leftist/collectivist,
you only will live in a place inhabited by others of
your same traitorous hyperbole, and I'm sure you and
the other losers *do* greet each other that way.

Rat & Swan wrote:


our Reichstag fire ( 9/11 -- there's
evidence Bush knew about it beforehand,

Show it, liar.

some qualification is required. it was *Prescott* Bush
who was an officer of Union Bank, when it was taken to court
for violating the Trading with the Enemy Act. it was a subsidiary
of the then-largest private bank on Earth, Brown Bros., Harriman,
whose networks are organized by Skull and Bones at Yale.
see http://tarpley.net. (one of the author's father brought the case.)
of course, that's 3 generations of S&B in the federal goment;
don't know about the rest of the "dynasty."

Don Swayser wrote in message ...

Anyone who compares the activities of Bush to Hitler is historically
challenged. He should be soaking his head in a bucket instead of
attempting to spread this putrid garbage. In 1933 Hitler outlawed his
principal rivals, the Communist party. As beneficial as it would be our
radical leftitists, the democrats, are still at full screech. By 1934
Hitler had outlawed any disenting press organs. No such step has been
taken in the U.S. By 1934 every officer and enlisted man in the
Reichswehr, the Luftwaffe and the Kreigsmarine was taking personal oaths
of allegiance to Adolph Hitler rather than Germany. Haven't heard that
about the U.S. Armed Forces. By then Hitler had also gained a distinct
ability to quash any film he considered inimical to the Nazi State and
to imprison thier creators. Idiots like Micheal Moore are still at large
to spew their diarrhea. By 1934 Hitler had dismissed the Reichstag. Both
houses of Congress still meet in Washington. So what is this moron

--ils duces d'Enron!
http://larouchepub.com/pr_lar/2003/0...statement.html

whether or not the Cheney was in on planning it, or
allowing ot to happen, or it was just a "NORAD SNAFU,"
it was certainly used as a pretext -- the plans were made,
origninally, in '91, and rejected by the Sitting Member
of the Bush Dynasty (Sir [the original] George;
see http://tarpley.net/bushb.htm).
you may not have heard,
that POTUS#41 gave his annual award to an authorial critic
of the "neo-imperial" policy. all documented
at http://larouchepub.net, but it's better
to get the weekly paper, just to be sure. maybe,
they'll put it in a brown paper wrapper
for a few extra bucks!... http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac/

Jonathan Ball wrote in message thlink.net...

our Reichstag fire ( 9/11 -- there's

--ils duces d;Enron!
http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/30...t_pricing.html
http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/30...gia_soros.html
http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/30...ey_freaks.html
http://larouchepub.com/lar/2003/3047detroit_spch.html

Basic English was the program that "George Orwell" worked on -- and
he had nothing but unbad to say about it; you can find this
in the American Almanac backlog.
http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac/

whether or not Dick Cheeny had anything to *do* with 9/11 (or
allowing it to happen, or it was just a "NORAD SNAFU"),
he certainly used it as a pretext for hi '91 invasion plan
(on 9/13, that is).
there was no reason for the Supreme Court to butt-in,
by violating US and Florida consitutitions, to *insure*
that George won, even if he might have. to me,
it seems like the "R" did this, in order to create a populist movement
to go to mass-online plebiscite-for-president. you know,
like in Nazi Germnay.

like I said, before, it was Prescott B. who was indicted,
as an executive of Union Bank.

Jonathan Ball wrote in message thlink.net...

Have you seen the step-by-step comparison between Bush's
takeover and the Nazi takeover in 1933-4? It's almost

"The word Fascism has now no meaning except in so
far as it signifies 'something not desirable.'"

"George Orwell,"
"Politics and the English Language", 1946

garden-variety leftist/collectivist, you reflexively

No, we didn't. Bush obtained a majority vote of the
Electoral College, the constitutionally provided method

--Give the Gift of Dick Cheeny -- out of office, finally!
http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/30...ey_freaks.html

I don't know if you-all see the same thing that I do,
at UCLA, but these items seem to be being effectively trashed
by "these oceans oscirius" and its little poems. or,
it just means taht I'd have to reset the default "view,"
somehow -- don't tell These, how!

(Brian Quincy Hutchings) wrote in message . com...

see http://tarpley.net/bushb.htm).
you may not have heard,
that POTUS#41 gave his annual award to an authorial critic
of the "neo-imperial" policy. all documented
at http://larouchepub.net, but it's better
to get the weekly paper, just to be sure. maybe,
they'll put it in a brown paper wrapper
for a few extra bucks!... http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac/

--Give the Gift of Dick Cheeny -- out of office!
http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/30...te_plmbrs.html
http://larouchepub.com/pr_lar/2003/0...statement.html
http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/30...t_pricing.html
http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/30...ey_freaks.html
http://larouchepub.com/lar/2003/3047detroit_spch.html

the only true collecetive, that I know of, is *The Economist*,
the icon of British Liberal Free Trade's Invisible Handiness;
just see who authors all of the articles!
there are lots of things *about* fascism (or Corporatism,
under Mussolini, or what it was called by others) that are not so desirable,
but why would "George Orwell" make such a statement?... see
http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac/fascpt.htm. and
here is where "newspeak" can be found,
http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac/brainpt.htm --
"Tavistock's Language Project."

the EC can also dump candidates, as they should have done
with both B and G, thus sending the decision to Congress;
as it was, only the collegian from DC said any thing, and
that was just a complaint about not having a senator!
it can be a deliberative body, when required.

Jonathan Ball wrote in message thlink.net...

"The word Fascism has now no meaning except in so
far as it signifies 'something not desirable.'"

No, we didn't. Bush obtained a majority vote of the
Electoral College, the constitutionally provided method
of selecting the U.S. President.

--Give the Gift of Dick Cheeny -- out of office, at last!
http://www.benfranklinbooks.com/
http://www.wlym.com/pages/music.html
http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/30...ey_freaks.html
http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/30...te_plmbrs.html
http://larouchepub.com/pr_lar/2003/0...statement.html
http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/30...t_pricing.html
http://larouchepub.com/lar/2003/3047detroit_spch.html
http://www.rand.org/publications/ran...sues/rr.12.00/
http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac
http://www.wlym.com/PDF-68-76/CAM7606.pdf

"Brian Quincy Hutchings" wrote in message
om...
Basic English was the program that "George Orwell" worked on -- and
he had nothing but unbad to say about it; you can find this
in the American Almanac backlog.
http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac/

whether or not Dick Cheeny had anything to *do* with 9/11 (or
allowing it to happen, or it was just a "NORAD SNAFU"),
he certainly used it as a pretext for hi '91 invasion plan
(on 9/13, that is).
there was no reason for the Supreme Court to butt-in,
by violating US and Florida consitutitions, to *insure*
that George won, even if he might have. to me,
it seems like the "R" did this, in order to create a populist movement
to go to mass-online plebiscite-for-president. you know,
like in Nazi Germnay.

like I said, before, it was Prescott B. who was indicted,
as an executive of Union Bank.

Jonathan Ball wrote in message
thlink.net...

Have you seen the step-by-step comparison between Bush's
takeover and the Nazi takeover in 1933-4? It's almost

"The word Fascism has now no meaning except in so
far as it signifies 'something not desirable.'"

"George Orwell,"
"Politics and the English Language", 1946

garden-variety leftist/collectivist, you reflexively

No, we didn't. Bush obtained a majority vote of the
Electoral College, the constitutionally provided method

--Give the Gift of Dick Cheeny -- out of office, finally!
http://larouchepub.com/other/2003/30...ey_freaks.html


This kind of sounds like a post that belongs on
alt.conspiracy.black.helicopters

-Rubystars

Rat & Swan wrote:


our Reichstag fire ( 9/11 -- there's
evidence Bush knew about it beforehand,

Show it, liar.