While frolicking around in alt.food.vegan, Jay of Shaw Residential
Internet said:

"Unlike you, I have no problem spanking men." -Angel

Where do you draw the line at compassion and ethics: eating bananas,
spanking men?


Compassion and ethics can go hand in hand with consenting sexual practices,
kinky or not. I don't see a contradiction. And I draw different lines in
terms of compassion and ethics every day depending on individual contexts.
Plus, you know what? It's a signature. And a damn chuckle-y one at that,
IMHO.

It made *me* laugh. Some people just don't get the humour used in
signatures.

Obsessing about signatures again? Where did your sense of humour go? I
remember you used to have one.

Besides, she's only quoting someone else for saying it, not saying
that it's her own opinion.

If you're referring to me, I'm a HE please. Just 'cos I spank men doesn't
make me a woman =P (Though I would say that I'm definitely a Lady ~grin~)

Oops! Sorry about that! For some reason I thought your nickname
sounded feminine. Don't ask me why, though. It's what you get when you
can't see each other. Several usenet people have mistaken me for a
man.
--
Nikitta a.a. #1759 Apatriot(No, not apricot)#18
ICQ# 251532856
Unreferenced footnotes: http://www.nut.house.cx/cgi-bin/nemwiki.pl?ISFN
"Hummm.... 86 percent male. Which probably explains why I only have fun 14 percent
of the time...." Therion Ware (a.a.)

usual suspect wrote:

Jay wrote:
I think this is a personal call that you have to make for yourself. I do the
same thing, all the time. For instance, I refuse to buy bananas, a nice
vegan food, right?

Very nice food, period.

Because of the inhumane conditions applied to the
communities surrounding the plantations and the workers themselves,

What inhumane conditions are these? Have you ever visited a banana
plantation in person or do you get your information from petty activists
who turn everything into an ethical dilemma?

I can say that I *have* visited a banana plantation, and within the last
couple of weeks. I also rode past many more on vacation. What I found
was nothing like you describe. The workers were joyful and well-fed.

Swing Low Sweet Chariot comin' for to carry me home... It's not just
about the workers, that's bad enough. It's about the environment.

http://members.tripod.com/foro_emaus/BanPlantsCA.htm

If you're referring to me, I'm a HE please. Just 'cos I spank men doesn't
make me a woman =P (Though I would say that I'm definitely a Lady ~grin~)

Oops! Sorry about that! For some reason I thought your nickname
sounded feminine. Don't ask me why, though. It's what you get when you
can't see each other. Several usenet people have mistaken me for a
man.

Don't worry. No offense was taken. I'm quite gender-flexible =)

I remember getting into an argument with some guy on a newsgroup about
whether or not Leonard Cohen's music was somewhat misogynistic and the guy
said "OH, you must be a women then!" As if that was the ultimate insult.
Sheesh. Heh. People are weird, sometimes =P

-Jay
(Let's see if this sig bothers anyone)
--
Melissa: Where are you going?
Brendan: To the splendid, eternal unitement of the fairy princess and the
milady of flowers.
Melissa: That's weird! That's where I'm going! You can come with me on my
dragon. He's my best friend and I own him.
Brendan: Sounds like a complicated relationship.
-from Home Movies, Soup2Nutz

MEow wrote:
"Unlike you, I have no problem spanking men." -Angel

Where do you draw the line at compassion and ethics: eating bananas,
spanking men?

Obsessing about signatures again?

It's not obsessing, it's asking a question. Get the two straight, okay?

Where did your sense of humour go? I
remember you used to have one.

I still have it. The OP made off like a moralist, and I asked a
reasonable question. If it's wrong to eat bananas, why is it okay to
spank men? Big ****ing deal.

Besides, she's only quoting someone else for saying it, not saying
that it's her own opinion.

That's the OP's problem, no? I happen to think the OP thinks of morality
in rather inconsistent terms, so I asked a question.

As with most other quotes in signatures,
it's probably placed there because the person having the signature
thought it was funny. You seem to have big problems understanding
usenet signatures and the humour in them.

No, you seem to be lashing out again to gain brownie points with other
posters. I understand sigs quite well, and I have an excellent sense of
humor. I asked one question given the apparent incongruencies I noted.
That's all.

MEow wrote:
Compassion and ethics can go hand in hand with consenting sexual practices,
kinky or not. I don't see a contradiction. And I draw different lines in
terms of compassion and ethics every day depending on individual contexts.
Plus, you know what? It's a signature. And a damn chuckle-y one at that,
IMHO.

It made *me* laugh. Some people just don't get the humour used in
signatures.

That's it. No apology, no more Mr Nice Guy to you. Your assumption is
*completely* misplaced.

If you're referring to me, I'm a HE please. Just 'cos I spank men doesn't
make me a woman =P (Though I would say that I'm definitely a Lady ~grin~)

Oops! Sorry about that! For some reason I thought your nickname
sounded feminine. Don't ask me why, though.

Could it be that yours sounds masculine?

It's what you get when you can't see each other.

From the gist of his other posts, he could probably tell all kinds of
lurid stories about that kind of behavior.

Several usenet people have mistaken me for a man.

:-X

frlcnt wrote:
I think this is a personal call that you have to make for yourself. I do the
same thing, all the time. For instance, I refuse to buy bananas, a nice
vegan food, right?

Very nice food, period.


Because of the inhumane conditions applied to the
communities surrounding the plantations and the workers themselves,

What inhumane conditions are these? Have you ever visited a banana
plantation in person or do you get your information from petty activists
who turn everything into an ethical dilemma?

I can say that I *have* visited a banana plantation, and within the last
couple of weeks. I also rode past many more on vacation. What I found
was nothing like you describe. The workers were joyful and well-fed.

Swing Low Sweet Chariot comin' for to carry me home... It's not just
about the workers, that's bad enough.

Ipse dixit.

It's about the environment.

Ipse dixit.

snip of someone's bogus term paper: note many of the sources
are activist publications

While frolicking around in alt.food.vegan, usual suspect of Road
Runner - Texas said:

It made *me* laugh. Some people just don't get the humour used in
signatures.

That's it. No apology, no more Mr Nice Guy to you. Your assumption is
*completely* misplaced.

You haven't shown any signs of getting it. Especially considering how
you went after my past signatures.

If you're referring to me, I'm a HE please. Just 'cos I spank men doesn't
make me a woman =P (Though I would say that I'm definitely a Lady ~grin~)

Oops! Sorry about that! For some reason I thought your nickname
sounded feminine. Don't ask me why, though.

Could it be that yours sounds masculine?

It's feline. What's masculine about that?

It's what you get when you can't see each other.

From the gist of his other posts, he could probably tell all kinds of
lurid stories about that kind of behavior.

What he does with other consenting adults is not something I intend to
get upset about.

Several usenet people have mistaken me for a man.

:-X

I've told you why.
--
Nikitta a.a. #1759 Apatriot(No, not apricot)#18
ICQ# 251532856
Unreferenced footnotes: http://www.nut.house.cx/cgi-bin/nemwiki.pl?ISFN
"Hummm.... 86 percent male. Which probably explains why I only have fun 14 percent
of the time...." Therion Ware (a.a.)

While frolicking around in alt.food.vegan, usual suspect of Road
Runner - Texas said:

"Unlike you, I have no problem spanking men." -Angel

Where do you draw the line at compassion and ethics: eating bananas,
spanking men?

Obsessing about signatures again?

It's not obsessing, it's asking a question. Get the two straight, okay?

The signature has nothing to do with the post, but you seem to insist
on picking on it.

Where did your sense of humour go? I
remember you used to have one.

I still have it. The OP made off like a moralist, and I asked a
reasonable question. If it's wrong to eat bananas, why is it okay to
spank men? Big ****ing deal.

As long as the men he spanks are consenting to it, I don't see what's
so immoral about it.

Besides, she's only quoting someone else for saying it, not saying
that it's her own opinion.

That's the OP's problem, no? I happen to think the OP thinks of morality
in rather inconsistent terms, so I asked a question.

No, not really. Anyone understanding usenet signatures and the humour
in them would know that it's a quote and most likely meant as a joke.
Your failure to get that is not his fault or problem.

As with most other quotes in signatures,
it's probably placed there because the person having the signature
thought it was funny. You seem to have big problems understanding
usenet signatures and the humour in them.

No, you seem to be lashing out again to gain brownie points with other
posters. I understand sigs quite well, and I have an excellent sense of
humor. I asked one question given the apparent incongruencies I noted.
That's all.

I say what I mean because I mean it, though of course it's easier for
you to pretend that I'm trying to gain brownie points. Your repeated
insistence of taking signatures seriously and literally shows that you
don't understand them, or you would've know that they're not meant
that way.
--
Nikitta a.a. #1759 Apatriot(No, not apricot)#18
ICQ# 251532856
Unreferenced footnotes: http://www.nut.house.cx/cgi-bin/nemwiki.pl?ISFN
"Hummm.... 86 percent male. Which probably explains why I only have fun 14 percent
of the time...." Therion Ware (a.a.)

MEow wrote:
That's it. No apology, no more Mr Nice Guy to you. Your assumption is
*completely* misplaced.

You haven't shown any signs of getting it. Especially considering how
you went after my past signatures.

I didn't "go after," I asked questions. And I did it politely.

Oops! Sorry about that! For some reason I thought your nickname
sounded feminine. Don't ask me why, though.

Could it be that yours sounds masculine?

It's feline.

You may be catty, but your name isn't feline.

What's masculine about that?

Ask those who think you're a male.

It's what you get when you can't see each other.

From the gist of his other posts, he could probably tell all kinds of
lurid stories about that kind of behavior.

What he does with other consenting adults is not something I intend to
get upset about.

Nor do I.

Several usenet people have mistaken me for a man.

:-X

I've told you why.

I'm biting my tongue because I'm WAY TOO polite even though I'm through
being nice to you till you apologize.

MEow wrote:
Where do you draw the line at compassion and ethics: eating bananas,
spanking men?

Obsessing about signatures again?

It's not obsessing, it's asking a question. Get the two straight, okay?

The signature has nothing to do with the post, but you seem to insist
on picking on it.

I know it has nothing to do with the content of the post, nitwit. It
does seem out of place with the OP's concerns about unknown people for
whom he feigns interest and support. He suggested eating bananas is
morally wrong, but finds enjoyment and/or amusement in acts of
consensual violence. I just wanted to know if he accepts the paradox,
but his intimations about his bizarre sexuality clarified the whole matter.

Where did your sense of humour go? I
remember you used to have one.

I still have it. The OP made off like a moralist, and I asked a
reasonable question. If it's wrong to eat bananas, why is it okay to
spank men? Big ****ing deal.

As long as the men he spanks are consenting to it, I don't see what's
so immoral about it.

What's immoral about eating bananas if the pickers not only consent to
picking them, but get paid to do so?

Besides, she's only quoting someone else for saying it, not saying
that it's her own opinion.

That's the OP's problem, no? I happen to think the OP thinks of morality
in rather inconsistent terms, so I asked a question.

No, not really. Anyone understanding usenet signatures and the humour
in them would know that it's a quote and most likely meant as a joke.

I do understand that, nitwit. I asked one question, a very reasonable
one, asking about the paradox between his feigned morality and his sig.

Your failure to get that is not his fault or problem.

I didn't fail anything, dipstick. Your behavior in this more is more
stupid than his sig.

As with most other quotes in signatures,
it's probably placed there because the person having the signature
thought it was funny. You seem to have big problems understanding
usenet signatures and the humour in them.

No, you seem to be lashing out again to gain brownie points with other
posters. I understand sigs quite well, and I have an excellent sense of
humor. I asked one question given the apparent incongruencies I noted.
That's all.

I say what I mean because I mean it, though of course it's easier for
you to pretend that I'm trying to gain brownie points. Your repeated
insistence of taking signatures seriously and literally shows that you
don't understand them, or you would've know that they're not meant
that way.

http://tinyurl.com/1gd

While frolicking around in alt.food.vegan, usual suspect of Road
Runner - Texas said:

That's it. No apology, no more Mr Nice Guy to you. Your assumption is
*completely* misplaced.

You haven't shown any signs of getting it. Especially considering how
you went after my past signatures.

I didn't "go after," I asked questions. And I did it politely.

Yes you did go after them and you were not polite about it at all.

Oops! Sorry about that! For some reason I thought your nickname
sounded feminine. Don't ask me why, though.

Could it be that yours sounds masculine?

It's feline.

You may be catty, but your name isn't feline.

Cats don't say "meow" where you're from? Oh, you meant my *real* name!

What's masculine about that?

Ask those who think you're a male.

Okay, so my real name is considered masculine in some places.

It's what you get when you can't see each other.

From the gist of his other posts, he could probably tell all kinds of
lurid stories about that kind of behavior.

What he does with other consenting adults is not something I intend to
get upset about.

Nor do I.

Then why make an issue out of it or say that there's a contradiction?

Several usenet people have mistaken me for a man.

:-X

I've told you why.

I'm biting my tongue because I'm WAY TOO polite even though I'm through
being nice to you till you apologize.

I have nothing to apologise for, as I'm only pointing out that your
repeated insistence of taking usenet signatures seriously shows that
you don't understand the humour in it. Anyone understanding the humour
in usenet signatures would know to not take them seriously. Besides,
you were different to me in past discussions than you are now that
you're "through being nice".
--
Nikitta a.a. #1759 Apatriot(No, not apricot)#18
ICQ# 251532856
Unreferenced footnotes: http://www.nut.house.cx/cgi-bin/nemwiki.pl?ISFN
"Hummm.... 86 percent male. Which probably explains why I only have fun 14 percent
of the time...." Therion Ware (a.a.)

MEow wrote:
That's it. No apology, no more Mr Nice Guy to you. Your assumption is
*completely* misplaced.

You haven't shown any signs of getting it. Especially considering how
you went after my past signatures.

I didn't "go after," I asked questions. And I did it politely.

Yes you did go after them and you were not polite about it at all.

I was polite. I pointed out certain facts based on firsthand
observation, and I also suggested the OP should eat bananas if he wanted
to help banana workers. Some people really don't get the harm done to
the lower-rung employees during boycotts.

Oops! Sorry about that! For some reason I thought your nickname
sounded feminine. Don't ask me why, though.

Could it be that yours sounds masculine?

It's feline.

You may be catty, but your name isn't feline.

Cats don't say "meow" where you're from?

Of course they make that sound.

Oh, you meant my *real* name!

What name would others consider masculine?

What's masculine about that?

Ask those who think you're a male.

Okay, so my real name is considered masculine in some places.

Yea, you got one right. Time for a party.

It's what you get when you can't see each other.

From the gist of his other posts, he could probably tell all kinds of

lurid stories about that kind of behavior.

What he does with other consenting adults is not something I intend to
get upset about.

Nor do I.

Then why make an issue out of it or say that there's a contradiction?

You're the one making an issue of it. I only asked one question and let
it be.

Several usenet people have mistaken me for a man.

:-X

I've told you why.

I'm biting my tongue because I'm WAY TOO polite even though I'm through
being nice to you till you apologize.

I have nothing to apologise for,

Yes, you do. You've thoroughly mischaracterized my intent.

as I'm only pointing out that your
repeated insistence of taking usenet signatures seriously shows that
you don't understand the humour in it.

Strawman.

Anyone understanding the humour
in usenet signatures would know to not take them seriously.

Strawman.

Besides,
you were different to me in past discussions than you are now that
you're "through being nice".

I've *always* been nice to you. Way too nice. The fact that you always
jump the gun and decide I'm being mean without delving into issues
doesn't wash, Nikitta. All that does is show how rash you are.

"usual suspect" wrote in message
.. .
MEow wrote:
"Unlike you, I have no problem spanking men." -Angel

Where do you draw the line at compassion and ethics: eating bananas,
spanking men?

Obsessing about signatures again?

It's not obsessing, it's asking a question. Get the two straight, okay?

Where did your sense of humour go? I
remember you used to have one.

I still have it. The OP made off like a moralist, and I asked a
reasonable question. If it's wrong to eat bananas, why is it okay to
spank men? Big ****ing deal.


I never said it was wrong to eat bananas. I just said that I didn't and for
certain reasons and beliefs that I hold. I never said they were truths and I
never said I mightn't be wrong. People can do whatever they want and far be
it from me to tell them how to live their lives.

That's the OP's problem, no? I happen to think the OP thinks of morality
in rather inconsistent terms, so I asked a question.


Along with everyone else in the world. None of us are above inconsistent
morals. I wish people would just stop pretending that they were.

-Jay

While frolicking around in alt.food.vegan, usual suspect of Road
Runner - Texas said:

Where do you draw the line at compassion and ethics: eating bananas,
spanking men?

Obsessing about signatures again?

It's not obsessing, it's asking a question. Get the two straight, okay?

The signature has nothing to do with the post, but you seem to insist
on picking on it.

I know it has nothing to do with the content of the post, nitwit. It
does seem out of place with the OP's concerns about unknown people for
whom he feigns interest and support. He suggested eating bananas is
morally wrong, but finds enjoyment and/or amusement in acts of
consensual violence. I just wanted to know if he accepts the paradox,
but his intimations about his bizarre sexuality clarified the whole matter.

You recently agreed that it wasn't immoral, as long as they're adult
and consenting. Can you make up your mind?

Where did your sense of humour go? I
remember you used to have one.

I still have it. The OP made off like a moralist, and I asked a
reasonable question. If it's wrong to eat bananas, why is it okay to
spank men? Big ****ing deal.

As long as the men he spanks are consenting to it, I don't see what's
so immoral about it.

What's immoral about eating bananas if the pickers not only consent to
picking them, but get paid to do so?

Different issue which I'm not going to discuss with you here. Reality
isn't as simple as you set it up, though.

Besides, she's only quoting someone else for saying it, not saying
that it's her own opinion.

That's the OP's problem, no? I happen to think the OP thinks of morality
in rather inconsistent terms, so I asked a question.

No, not really. Anyone understanding usenet signatures and the humour
in them would know that it's a quote and most likely meant as a joke.

I do understand that, nitwit. I asked one question, a very reasonable
one, asking about the paradox between his feigned morality and his sig.

You took his signature seriously. This means failing to get the joke.
If you had seen it as a joke and nothing else, you wouldn't even have
had an issue with it, as you would've known that far from all people
having such things in their sigs are actually into that kind of thing.
You can't tell from the signature, even if you happened to guess right
once.

Your failure to get that is not his fault or problem.

I didn't fail anything, dipstick. Your behavior in this more is more
stupid than his sig.

Is that the best you can do? Name calling?

As with most other quotes in signatures,
it's probably placed there because the person having the signature
thought it was funny. You seem to have big problems understanding
usenet signatures and the humour in them.

No, you seem to be lashing out again to gain brownie points with other
posters. I understand sigs quite well, and I have an excellent sense of
humor. I asked one question given the apparent incongruencies I noted.
That's all.

I say what I mean because I mean it, though of course it's easier for
you to pretend that I'm trying to gain brownie points. Your repeated
insistence of taking signatures seriously and literally shows that you
don't understand them, or you would've know that they're not meant
that way.

http://tinyurl.com/1gd

ROFL - This from someone who calls *my* replies stupid! At least my
replies contain arguments and I don't have to resort to name calling.
That fact that you couldn't come up with anything better shows a good
deal about you, just like the way you seem to think I'd be offended by
something as childish as this. I'm laughing!
--
Nikitta a.a. #1759 Apatriot(No, not apricot)#18
ICQ# 251532856
Unreferenced footnotes: http://www.nut.house.cx/cgi-bin/nemwiki.pl?ISFN
"Hummm.... 86 percent male. Which probably explains why I only have fun 14 percent
of the time...." Therion Ware (a.a.)

"usual suspect" wrote in message
...
Jay wrote:
I have no idea what the conditions are for producing fair trade bananas.

You also have no idea about conditions for any other bananas.

True. Never claimed that I did. I only mentioned what I'd heard (recognizing
that my sources may be unreliable.)



The way to support banana workers is to eat their products, not to avoid
them.


In some ways, I agree with you. I don't put much stock in boycotts. If I
knew without a doubt how all of my food was produced, I'd have no problem
picking and choosing who to buy from. Since I don't, I have to wing it based
on guesses and my own experience. Kind of like everyone else.

Did you know organic food is also treated with pesticides? Some of the
organic pesticides have longer halflives than synthetic ones.


Thank you, I did know that. And if you ask me (which you didn't) I think
that agriculture is just as big a problem on a global level as anything
else. I get that.


The question isn't about safety, but of truth. I walked and biked in the
banana plantation. I was never sprayed. I didn't even see a single
airplane.


That may be true, it may not. I don't trust you as a source any more than
anyone else. And just because you weren't sprayed doesn't mean that they
don't spray. And just because that plantation may have had decent conditions
does not mean that the bananas in my grocery store come from decent
plantations.

The pay for ANY unskilled or semi-skilled labor is low regardless of
locale. As noted in my previous post, the pay for labor at the
plantation I visited was higher than that of similarly skilled work in
the cities. Go figure, huh.


Again, the conditions of one plantation are no guarantee of what's available
to me.


Not entirely true. Local economies in third world nations, which most
banana producers are, are very much tied to agriculture and products and
services which don't require much sophistication in training or
infrastructure. This also includes mining, which is usually more
deleterious to the environment and may be deemed even harsher than crop
work. The exportation of agriculture and mining products from these
nations is a major portion of their GDP.

Absolutely.


The way to support those economies so they can grow and diversify is to
buy the product(s) they have, not to boycott them.


Of course. But buying from companies whose practices you support is
different from buying indiscriminantly. I don't always succeed in buying
from companies I support all the time, but that's life. For me, talking
about growing practices and discussing them like we are here is much more
valuable than where a anonymous money goes. They both carry weight.

Such is the result of boycotts and withdrawls from the market, as you
have chosen. How do you sleep at night?


On a crappy bed purchased from a company I don't support. I know I'm a
hypocrite. I'd rather be a self-admitted hypocrite than someone who refuses
to acknowledge their hypocrisy.

So you smear the whole industry based on your lack of knowledge and hope
others act on your ignorance and false conscience?


I'm not encouraging anyone else to act in any which way. Their decisions are
their own.

Either way, "ethics" is never served; it's just lipservice
and posturing. One is not moral by abstaining from bananas, and one is
not immoral by eating them.


Perhaps I did suggest that eating bananas was immoral. What I meant, is that
to ME eating bananas is immoral because I don't know enough about the
situation to learn it inside out. And frankly, I'm too poor and too lazy to
fly to all the banana plantations and learn first hand about them.


-Jay

--
Melissa: Where are you going?
Brendan: To the splendid, eternal unitement of the fairy princess and the
milady of flowers.
Melissa: That's weird! That's where I'm going! You can come with me on my
dragon. He's my best friend and I own him.
Brendan: Sounds like a complicated relationship.
-from Home Movies