dh@. wrote:
On 5 Jan 2007 10:46:41 -0800, "Ronald 'More-More' Moshki" wrote:

Geoff is a rarity--a follower of JC who is a good guy.


Geoff wrote:
Cruelty to Animals: Mechanized Madness
. . .

Take a stand against cruelty to animals: By switching to a vegetarian
diet, you will save more than 100 animals a year.

That's a blatant lie. Switching to a vegetarian diet has never
saved a single animal, and never will. In contrast to that,
becoming a more conscientious consumer of animal products
CAN contribute to decent lives for animals raised for food.

· From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised
steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people
get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat...that's well
over 500 servings of meat. From a grass raised dairy cow people
get thousands of dairy servings. Due to the influence of farm
machinery, and *icides, and in the case of rice the flooding and
draining of fields, one serving of soy or rice based product is
likely to involve more animal deaths than hundreds of servings
derived from grass raised animals. Grass raised animal products
contribute to fewer wildlife deaths, better wildlife habitat, and
better lives for livestock than soy or rice products. ·

Here we see plowing:
http://tinyurl.com/8fmxe

and here harrowing:
http://tinyurl.com/zqr2v

both of which kill animals by crushing, mutilation, suffocation,
and exposing them to predators. We can see that planting
kills in similar ways:
http://tinyurl.com/k6sku

and death from herbicides and pesticides needs to be
kept in mind:
http://tinyurl.com/ew2j5

Harvesting kills of course by crushing and mutilation, and
it also removes the surviving animals' food, and it exposes
them to predators:
http://tinyurl.com/otp5l

In the case of rice there's additional killing as well caused
by flooding:
http://tinyurl.com/qhqx3

and later by draining and destroying the environment which
developed as the result of the flooding:
http://tinyurl.com/rc9m3

Cattle eating grass rarely if ever cause anywhere near
as much suffering and death. ·
http://tinyurl.com/q7whm


A certain number of food animals need to be HUMANELY slaughtered
to feed pet cats and dogs.

Otherwise, there is no excuse for torturing, caging and murdering
non-human animals.

On 5 Jan 2007 10:46:41 -0800, "Ronald 'More-More' Moshki" wrote:

Geoff is a rarity--a follower of JC who is a good guy.


Geoff wrote:
Cruelty to Animals: Mechanized Madness
.. . .

Take a stand against cruelty to animals: By switching to a vegetarian
diet, you will save more than 100 animals a year.

That's a blatant lie. Switching to a vegetarian diet has never
saved a single animal, and never will. In contrast to that,
becoming a more conscientious consumer of animal products
CAN contribute to decent lives for animals raised for food.

· From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised
steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people
get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat...that's well
over 500 servings of meat. From a grass raised dairy cow people
get thousands of dairy servings. Due to the influence of farm
machinery, and *icides, and in the case of rice the flooding and
draining of fields, one serving of soy or rice based product is
likely to involve more animal deaths than hundreds of servings
derived from grass raised animals. Grass raised animal products
contribute to fewer wildlife deaths, better wildlife habitat, and
better lives for livestock than soy or rice products. ·

Here we see plowing:
http://tinyurl.com/8fmxe

and here harrowing:
http://tinyurl.com/zqr2v

both of which kill animals by crushing, mutilation, suffocation,
and exposing them to predators. We can see that planting
kills in similar ways:
http://tinyurl.com/k6sku

and death from herbicides and pesticides needs to be
kept in mind:
http://tinyurl.com/ew2j5

Harvesting kills of course by crushing and mutilation, and
it also removes the surviving animals' food, and it exposes
them to predators:
http://tinyurl.com/otp5l

In the case of rice there's additional killing as well caused
by flooding:
http://tinyurl.com/qhqx3

and later by draining and destroying the environment which
developed as the result of the flooding:
http://tinyurl.com/rc9m3

Cattle eating grass rarely if ever cause anywhere near
as much suffering and death. ·
http://tinyurl.com/q7whm

On 6 Jan 2007 13:22:15 -0800, "Ronald 'More-More' Moshki" wrote:


dh@. wrote:
On 5 Jan 2007 10:46:41 -0800, "Ronald 'More-More' Moshki" wrote:

Geoff is a rarity--a follower of JC who is a good guy.


Geoff wrote:
Cruelty to Animals: Mechanized Madness
. . .

Take a stand against cruelty to animals: By switching to a vegetarian
diet, you will save more than 100 animals a year.

That's a blatant lie. Switching to a vegetarian diet has never
saved a single animal, and never will. In contrast to that,
becoming a more conscientious consumer of animal products
CAN contribute to decent lives for animals raised for food.

· From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised
steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people
get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat...that's well
over 500 servings of meat. From a grass raised dairy cow people
get thousands of dairy servings. Due to the influence of farm
machinery, and *icides, and in the case of rice the flooding and
draining of fields, one serving of soy or rice based product is
likely to involve more animal deaths than hundreds of servings
derived from grass raised animals. Grass raised animal products
contribute to fewer wildlife deaths, better wildlife habitat, and
better lives for livestock than soy or rice products. ·

Here we see plowing:
http://tinyurl.com/8fmxe

and here harrowing:
http://tinyurl.com/zqr2v

both of which kill animals by crushing, mutilation, suffocation,
and exposing them to predators. We can see that planting
kills in similar ways:
http://tinyurl.com/k6sku

and death from herbicides and pesticides needs to be
kept in mind:
http://tinyurl.com/ew2j5

Harvesting kills of course by crushing and mutilation, and
it also removes the surviving animals' food, and it exposes
them to predators:
http://tinyurl.com/otp5l

In the case of rice there's additional killing as well caused
by flooding:
http://tinyurl.com/qhqx3

and later by draining and destroying the environment which
developed as the result of the flooding:
http://tinyurl.com/rc9m3

Cattle eating grass rarely if ever cause anywhere near
as much suffering and death. ·
http://tinyurl.com/q7whm


A certain number of food animals need to be HUMANELY slaughtered

ALL food animals should be humanely slaughtered. Why not?
Why TF not???

to feed pet cats and dogs.

You're supposed to be against cats and dogs for one thing. And
if it's okay for the animals to be raised and slaughtered then it is,
for whatever reason. And if it's not, then it's not for any reason.
It must be just as bad to kill wildlife though, if not worse. Since
animals raised for food get whatever life they get because of it,
then I have to factor that in too. If the particular wild animals killed
in crop production only exist because we raised those crops, that
has to be factored in too. Also the wildlife that would exist were
it not for the livestock which prevent them, but wildlife exist along
with pastured animals better than in crop fields, so that has to
be worked in too. Then the facts that most wildlife die even
younger than livestock, and in worse ways, and usually have
what I would consider to be as bad or worse lives all have to
be included. Then there are the facts that we're capable of
providing lives of positive value and humane deaths for billions
of livestock. To me that's about as well as we can do, so I'd like
to see consumers take an interest in it, especially in situations
where it's better for wildlife than crop production like with grass
raised animal products. You can puff and snort and stomp your
feet at it, but some animal products are better for widlife and
the environment than grain products AND they provide decent
lives for livestock, so to me that's pretty much the best of it. Raising
grain fed animals is like eating tofu to me since it has pretty much
the same impact though it takes more land for the livestock, but
then it also provides their lives so it works out about the same.
Eating meat substitutes containing egg whites is lamest of all imo,
because it includes the higher volume of grain but provides too
often what I would consider to be terrible lives of negative value
for commercial layers. In contrast I feel that eating cage free eggs
provides what are usually lives of positive value.

Otherwise, there is no excuse for torturing, caging and murdering
non-human animals.

They should all be provided with decent lives and humane
deaths. When done that way it's okay. When it's not, it should
be corrected. Remember that the biggest difference between
AW and "ar" is: The animals.

On 6 Jan 2007 13:22:15 -0800, "Ronald 'More-More' Moshki"
wrote:


dh@. wrote:
On 5 Jan 2007 10:46:41 -0800, "Ronald 'More-More' Moshki" wrote:

Geoff is a rarity--a follower of JC who is a good guy.


Geoff wrote:
Cruelty to Animals: Mechanized Madness
. . .

Take a stand against cruelty to animals: By switching to a vegetarian
diet, you will save more than 100 animals a year.

That's a blatant lie. Switching to a vegetarian diet has never
saved a single animal, and never will. In contrast to that,
becoming a more conscientious consumer of animal products
CAN contribute to decent lives for animals raised for food.

· From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised
steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people
get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat...that's well
over 500 servings of meat. From a grass raised dairy cow people
get thousands of dairy servings. Due to the influence of farm
machinery, and *icides, and in the case of rice the flooding and
draining of fields, one serving of soy or rice based product is
likely to involve more animal deaths than hundreds of servings
derived from grass raised animals. Grass raised animal products
contribute to fewer wildlife deaths, better wildlife habitat, and
better lives for livestock than soy or rice products. ·

Here we see plowing:
http://tinyurl.com/8fmxe

and here harrowing:
http://tinyurl.com/zqr2v

both of which kill animals by crushing, mutilation, suffocation,
and exposing them to predators. We can see that planting
kills in similar ways:
http://tinyurl.com/k6sku

and death from herbicides and pesticides needs to be
kept in mind:
http://tinyurl.com/ew2j5

Harvesting kills of course by crushing and mutilation, and
it also removes the surviving animals' food, and it exposes
them to predators:
http://tinyurl.com/otp5l

In the case of rice there's additional killing as well caused
by flooding:
http://tinyurl.com/qhqx3

and later by draining and destroying the environment which
developed as the result of the flooding:
http://tinyurl.com/rc9m3

Cattle eating grass rarely if ever cause anywhere near
as much suffering and death. ·
http://tinyurl.com/q7whm


A certain number of food animals need to be HUMANELY slaughtered
to feed pet cats and dogs.

That's not true either.

see http://www.veggiepets.com/



Otherwise, there is no excuse for torturing, caging and murdering
non-human animals.

--


***************************
"Think occasionally of the suffering of which you
spare yourself the sight."
- Albert Schweitzer

Check out Animal Aid’s brand new one-minute video.
This powerful film, containing shocking images,
just begs to be seen by as many people as possible.
Help raise awareness by sending it to your friends
and family. http://tinyurl.com/yjmxo2






The logic some people use for not attending church, is used to avoid washing

1.I was forced to as a child.
2.People who make soap are only after your money.
3.I wash on special occasions like Christmas and Easter.
4.People who wash are hypocrites-they think they are cleaner than everyone else.
5.There are so many different kinds of soap,I can't decide which one is best.
6.I used to wash, but it got boring so I stopped.
7.None of my friends wash.
8.The bathroom is never warm enough in the winter or cool enough in the summer.
9.I'll start washing when I get older and dirtier.
10.I can't spare the time .

dh@. wrote:
On 5 Jan 2007 10:46:41 -0800, "Ronald 'More-More' Moshki" wrote:

Geoff is a rarity--a follower of JC who is a good guy.


Geoff wrote:
Cruelty to Animals: Mechanized Madness
. . .

Take a stand against cruelty to animals: By switching to a vegetarian
diet, you will save more than 100 animals a year.

That's a blatant lie. Switching to a vegetarian diet has never
saved a single animal, and never will. In contrast to that,
becoming a more conscientious consumer of animal products
CAN contribute to decent lives for animals raised for food.

· From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised
steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people
get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat...that's well
over 500 servings of meat. From a grass raised dairy cow people
get thousands of dairy servings. Due to the influence of farm
machinery, and *icides, and in the case of rice the flooding and
draining of fields, one serving of soy or rice based product is
likely to involve more animal deaths than hundreds of servings
derived from grass raised animals. Grass raised animal products
contribute to fewer wildlife deaths, better wildlife habitat, and
better lives for livestock than soy or rice products. ·

Here we see plowing:
http://tinyurl.com/8fmxe

and here harrowing:
http://tinyurl.com/zqr2v

both of which kill animals by crushing, mutilation, suffocation,
and exposing them to predators. We can see that planting
kills in similar ways:
http://tinyurl.com/k6sku

and death from herbicides and pesticides needs to be
kept in mind:
http://tinyurl.com/ew2j5

Harvesting kills of course by crushing and mutilation, and
it also removes the surviving animals' food, and it exposes
them to predators:
http://tinyurl.com/otp5l

In the case of rice there's additional killing as well caused
by flooding:
http://tinyurl.com/qhqx3

and later by draining and destroying the environment which
developed as the result of the flooding:
http://tinyurl.com/rc9m3

Cattle eating grass rarely if ever cause anywhere near
as much suffering and death. ·
http://tinyurl.com/q7whm


No answer is perfect--theare are nearly 8,000,000,000 humanoids
on this planet. dh always argues these same points but never
concedes that a change in human attitude would help.

it all boils down to the unlimited harm caused by SPECIES-ISM.

On 8 Jan 2007 17:00:30 -0800, "Ronald 'More-More' Moshki"
wrote:


dh@. wrote:
On 5 Jan 2007 10:46:41 -0800, "Ronald 'More-More' Moshki" wrote:

Geoff is a rarity--a follower of JC who is a good guy.


Geoff wrote:
Cruelty to Animals: Mechanized Madness
. . .

Take a stand against cruelty to animals: By switching to a vegetarian
diet, you will save more than 100 animals a year.

That's a blatant lie. Switching to a vegetarian diet has never
saved a single animal,

It directly saves millions of animals.


Here we see plowing:
http://tinyurl.com/8fmxe

A man in a tractor, cant see any animals dying there!

and here harrowing:
http://tinyurl.com/zqr2v

A man in a tractor, cant see any animals dying there!


both of which kill animals by crushing, mutilation, suffocation,
and exposing them to predators. We can see that planting
kills in similar ways:

No proof whatsoever, of significant figures.

http://tinyurl.com/k6sku

A man in a tractor, cant see any animals dying there!


and death from herbicides and pesticides needs to be
kept in mind:
http://tinyurl.com/ew2j5

Go Organic.

snip demented nonsense

No answer is perfect--theare are nearly 8,000,000,000 humanoids
on this planet. dh always argues these same points but never
concedes that a change in human attitude would help.

I think it's Dicks senile brother!

dh@. wrote in message ...
On 5 Jan 2007 10:46:41 -0800, "Ronald 'More-More' Moshki"
wrote:

Geoff is a rarity--a follower of JC who is a good guy.


Geoff wrote:
Cruelty to Animals: Mechanized Madness
. . .

Take a stand against cruelty to animals: By switching to a vegetarian
diet, you will save more than 100 animals a year.

That's a blatant lie. Switching to a vegetarian diet has never
saved a single animal, and never will.

No. *That's* a blatant lie!


rest of blatant lies snipped

On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 10:44:47 +0000, "(o)(o)" wrote:

On 8 Jan 2007 17:00:30 -0800, "Ronald 'More-More' Moshki"
wrote:


dh@. wrote:
On 5 Jan 2007 10:46:41 -0800, "Ronald 'More-More' Moshki" wrote:

Geoff is a rarity--a follower of JC who is a good guy.


Geoff wrote:
Cruelty to Animals: Mechanized Madness
. . .

Take a stand against cruelty to animals: By switching to a vegetarian
diet, you will save more than 100 animals a year.

That's a blatant lie. Switching to a vegetarian diet has never
saved a single animal,

It directly saves millions of animals.

If you believe it does, try to explain how.

On 8 Jan 2007 17:00:30 -0800, "Ronald 'More-More' Moshki" wrote:


dh@. wrote:
On 5 Jan 2007 10:46:41 -0800, "Ronald 'More-More' Moshki" wrote:

Geoff is a rarity--a follower of JC who is a good guy.


Geoff wrote:
Cruelty to Animals: Mechanized Madness
. . .

Take a stand against cruelty to animals: By switching to a vegetarian
diet, you will save more than 100 animals a year.

That's a blatant lie. Switching to a vegetarian diet has never
saved a single animal, and never will. In contrast to that,
becoming a more conscientious consumer of animal products
CAN contribute to decent lives for animals raised for food.

· From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised
steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people
get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat...that's well
over 500 servings of meat. From a grass raised dairy cow people
get thousands of dairy servings. Due to the influence of farm
machinery, and *icides, and in the case of rice the flooding and
draining of fields, one serving of soy or rice based product is
likely to involve more animal deaths than hundreds of servings
derived from grass raised animals. Grass raised animal products
contribute to fewer wildlife deaths, better wildlife habitat, and
better lives for livestock than soy or rice products. ·

Here we see plowing:
http://tinyurl.com/8fmxe

and here harrowing:
http://tinyurl.com/zqr2v

both of which kill animals by crushing, mutilation, suffocation,
and exposing them to predators. We can see that planting
kills in similar ways:
http://tinyurl.com/k6sku

and death from herbicides and pesticides needs to be
kept in mind:
http://tinyurl.com/ew2j5

Harvesting kills of course by crushing and mutilation, and
it also removes the surviving animals' food, and it exposes
them to predators:
http://tinyurl.com/otp5l

In the case of rice there's additional killing as well caused
by flooding:
http://tinyurl.com/qhqx3

and later by draining and destroying the environment which
developed as the result of the flooding:
http://tinyurl.com/rc9m3

Cattle eating grass rarely if ever cause anywhere near
as much suffering and death. ·
http://tinyurl.com/q7whm


No answer is perfect--theare are nearly 8,000,000,000 humanoids
on this planet. dh always argues these same points but never
concedes that a change in human attitude would help.

I always encourage change, but it's change that you
"aras" can't accept. I encourage decent AW, which works
*against* the objective to eliminate domestic animals, ie, "ar":
__________________________________________________ _______
.. . . Not only are the philosophies of animal rights and animal welfare
separated by irreconcilable differences, and not only are the
practical reforms grounded in animal welfare morally at odds with
those sanctioned by the philosophy of animal rights, but also the
enactment of animal welfare measures actually impedes the
achievement of animal rights.

.. . . There are fundamental and profound differences between the
philosophy of animal welfare and that of animal rights.

.. . . Many animal rights people who disavow the philosophy of animal
welfare believe they can consistently support reformist means to abolition
ends. This view is mistaken, we believe, for moral, practical, and conceptual
reasons.

.. . . welfare reforms, by their very nature, can only serve to retard the pace
at which animal rights goals are achieved.
.. . .

"A Movement's Means Create Its Ends"
By Tom Regan and Gary Francione
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
__________________________________________________ _______
AVMA POLICY ON ANIMAL WELFARE AND ANIMAL RIGHTS

Animal welfare is a human responsibility that encompasses all aspects of
animal well being, including proper housing, management, nutrition, disease
prevention and treatment, responsible care, humane handling, and, when
necessary, humane euthanasia.

Animal rights is a philosophical view and personal value characterized by
statements by various animal rights groups. Animal welfare and animal rights
are not synonymous terms. The AVMA wholeheartedly endorses and adopts
promotion of animal welfare as official policy; however, the AVMA cannot
endorse the philosophical views and personal values of animal rights advocates
when they are incompatible with the responsible use of animals for human
purposes, such as companionship, food, fiber, and research conducted for the
benefit of both humans and animals.

http://www.avma.org/policies/animalwelfare.asp
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
it all boils down to the unlimited harm caused by SPECIES-ISM.

· Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals by their use of
wood and paper products, electricity, roads and all types of
buildings, their own diet, etc... just as everyone else does.
What they try to avoid are products which provide life
(and death) for farm animals, but even then they would have
to avoid the following items containing animal by-products
in order to be successful:

Tires, Paper, Upholstery, Floor waxes, Glass, Water
Filters, Rubber, Fertilizer, Antifreeze, Ceramics, Insecticides,
Insulation, Linoleum, Plastic, Textiles, Blood factors, Collagen,
Heparin, Insulin, Solvents, Biodegradable Detergents, Herbicides,
Gelatin Capsules, Adhesive Tape, Laminated Wood Products,
Plywood, Paneling, Wallpaper and Wallpaper Paste, Cellophane
Wrap and Tape, Abrasives, Steel Ball Bearings

The meat industry provides life for the animals that it
slaughters, and the animals live and die as a result of it
as animals do in other habitats. They also depend on it for
their lives as animals do in other habitats. If people consume
animal products from animals they think are raised in decent
ways, they will be promoting life for more such animals in the
future. People who want to contribute to decent lives for
livestock with their lifestyle must do it by being conscientious
consumers of animal products, because they can not do it by
being vegan.
From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised
steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people
get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat...that's well
over 500 servings of meat. From a grass raised dairy cow people
get thousands of dairy servings. Due to the influence of farm
machinery, and *icides, and in the case of rice the flooding and
draining of fields, one serving of soy or rice based product is
likely to involve more animal deaths than hundreds of servings
derived from grass raised animals. Grass raised animal products
contribute to fewer wildlife deaths, better wildlife habitat, and
better lives for livestock than soy or rice products. ·

On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 01:55:41 GMT, "nemo" wrote:


dh@. wrote in message ...
On 5 Jan 2007 10:46:41 -0800, "Ronald 'More-More' Moshki"
wrote:

Geoff is a rarity--a follower of JC who is a good guy.


Geoff wrote:
Cruelty to Animals: Mechanized Madness
. . .

Take a stand against cruelty to animals: By switching to a vegetarian
diet, you will save more than 100 animals a year.

That's a blatant lie. Switching to a vegetarian diet has never
saved a single animal, and never will.

No. *That's* a blatant lie!

LOL! And how do you think it might have ever saved any? Being
a conscientious consumer of animal products can contribute to
better things for livestock, but being vegetarian never did anything
for any of them and never will. Duh.

rest of blatant lies snipped

I don't need to lie. My opposition to "ar" idiocy is reality--the truth--so
there would be and is no reason for me to lie. What I do is present facts
that you people hate to see pointed out, which--as in this case--often
expose some of the absurd and dishonest things that "ethical" veg*ns
would like to get people to believe. Veg*nism does nothing to "save"
or help any animals, and EVERYONE should be aware of that!

dh@. wrote in message ...
On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 01:55:41 GMT, "nemo" wrote:


dh@. wrote in message
...
On 5 Jan 2007 10:46:41 -0800, "Ronald 'More-More' Moshki"
wrote:

Geoff is a rarity--a follower of JC who is a good guy.


Geoff wrote:
Cruelty to Animals: Mechanized Madness
. . .

Take a stand against cruelty to animals: By switching to a
vegetarian
diet, you will save more than 100 animals a year.

That's a blatant lie. Switching to a vegetarian diet has never
saved a single animal, and never will.

No. *That's* a blatant lie!

Pro-meat propaganda again. I should waste my time on it indeed!

dh@. wrote in message ...
On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 10:44:47 +0000, "(o)(o)" wrote:

On 8 Jan 2007 17:00:30 -0800, "Ronald 'More-More' Moshki"
wrote:


dh@. wrote:
On 5 Jan 2007 10:46:41 -0800, "Ronald 'More-More' Moshki"
wrote:

Geoff is a rarity--a follower of JC who is a good guy.


Geoff wrote:
Cruelty to Animals: Mechanized Madness
. . .

Take a stand against cruelty to animals: By switching to a
vegetarian
diet, you will save more than 100 animals a year.

That's a blatant lie. Switching to a vegetarian diet has never
saved a single animal,

It directly saves millions of animals.

If you believe it does, try to explain how.


OK moron. It's simple economics.

Now. Are you sitting comfortably? Then we'll begin . . .

If we don't eat animals, demand for meat falls.

The industry isn't going to waste money by breeding animals that aren't
going to sell, so these animals just don't get born.

These are the ones we save from a horrible existence and death.

Simple izn tit - except to a **** like you! And if you're a butcher or
you're in the meat trade, or an Establishment mouthpiece paid to try to
maintain the status quo, I really do hope you get a visit from the ALF - and
as soon as possible!

Nemo