Hi all,

Here is a screen dump of some Japanese tea characters. Japanese
Romanization is called Romaji. Sado is an interesting example. Most
of the characters came from Internet data mining.

Jim

http://i6.tinypic.com/122y9tc.jpg

KWIC Index
Ryokucha Ocha Nihoncha Matcha Gyokuro Sencha
Shincha Genmaicha Bancha Hojicha Kukicha
Karigane Konacha Kocha Mugicha Tamacha Kyusu
Sado Tencha Yunomi Mecha Ujicha Kabusecha
Kamairicha Usuicha Koicha Kawayanagi

Here is a screen dump of some Japanese tea characters. Japanese
Romanization is called Romaji. Sado is an interesting example. Most
of the characters came from Internet data mining.

Hi, I think you got some mistakes there. The characters for gyokuro are
correct. But then why are the characters from tamacha the same?

Koicha is also not correct. It should be 浓茶 (thick tea). But my
computer only uses chinese simplified character set. Here is the proper
character again:
http://www.zhongwen.com/d/191/d64.gif

Thanks. All feedback is appreciated. I can't blame anything on typos.
Gyokuro and Tamacha as two transliterations which mean the same thing.
I get more hits for ºñ²è "thick tea" on .JP sites than yours. I
remember the character was lifted from a Japanese web page that also
talked about thin tea usuicha(usucha). FWIK the terms thin and thick
refer to the age of the tea bush when making maccha. From a younger
bush you make a thin concentration and older thick with the whisk.

Jim

niisonge wrote:
Here is a screen dump of some Japanese tea characters. Japanese
Romanization is called Romaji. Sado is an interesting example. Most
of the characters came from Internet data mining.

Hi, I think you got some mistakes there. The characters for gyokuro are
correct. But then why are the characters from tamacha the same?

Koicha is also not correct. It should be Ũ²è (thick tea). But my
computer only uses chinese simplified character set. Here is the proper
character again:
http://www.zhongwen.com/d/191/d64.gif

Hi-- I've lurked for a while... it's more the Japan stuff that I know:
my research, as an anthropoogist, is in tea ceremony, and most
"tea-people" (tea ceremony professionals) in Japan drink very nice
leaf-tea when not in the tea room.

Niisonge caught the error with "tama-cha" vs. "gyokuro(-cha)." Tamacha
should have just two characters (玉茶) The second one on the
screen-dump should be deleted, leaving the third character, cha, for
"tea." Gyokuro is "tama" plus one more character, and -cha is often
affixed (玉露茶)

Niisonge also caught the use of the wrong character for koicha, and his
citation shows the (unsimplified) character used in Japanese (濃茶).
The first character in the original screen dump, the wrong character
(厚), is read both "atsui" and "koi," but is not used to write
koi-cha. This is the kind of "spelling" error that native-writers of
Japanese frequently make. (If you mispell "geneaology" as "geneology,"
you still get lots of hits on an English-language browser... )

"Koi-cha" is the right *reading*, but it's *"usui-cha" that is messed
up: It should be "usu-cha" (delete that i ) (The dashes in the
romanization just help you see the parts of the word, don't let me
confuse you.)

Space Cowboy is right about the age of the bushes, though the tea
dealers I know also talk about the use of shade: that the bushes for
koi-cha (thick tea) are kept in shade longer each day. For a beginner,
the key difference is that usu-cha (thin tea) has far less tea powder
in relation to the amout of water... and koi-cha (thick tea) is
prepared much thicker... you kind of wait for the tea to crawl down the
side of the bowl into your mouth. In terms of ritual, thin tea is
*far* more frequently prepared, and thick tea is usually something
only elite practitioners (or their students) ever have occasion to
drink. In the thick-tea ritual, a bowl of tea is shared, each guest
wiping the lip of the bowl carefully before sending it to the next
guest, while thin-tea is served (usually) one bowl per guest.

Thick-tea is quite a bit more expensive than the thin tea, and you use
about 5 times as much per serving as well... The thick-tea leaf is
prepared so that it is less bitter (important when drinking the tea so
thick!). Many elite tea practitioners say that when serving *thin* tea
to a guest who is not used to drinking matcha (沫茶 powdered tea,
also romanized maccha), it is ideal to serve thin-tea made with the
powder used for thick-tea-- because it is less bitter, easier to get
used to. My friends have often sent me the powder for thick tea in the
hopes that as I expose friends and students here in the US to powdered
tea, they will have a nice first experience.

I drink lots of teas aside from Japanese teas I enjoy this group
very much. Thanks everyone!

Space Cowboy wrote:
Thanks. All feedback is appreciated. I can't blame anything on typos.
Gyokuro and Tamacha as two transliterations which mean the same thing.
I get more hits for 厚茶 "thick tea" on .JP sites than yours. I
remember the character was lifted from a Japanese web page that also
talked about thin tea usuicha(usucha). FWIK the terms thin and thick
refer to the age of the tea bush when making maccha. From a younger
bush you make a thin concentration and older thick with the whisk.

Jim

niisonge wrote:
Here is a screen dump of some Japanese tea characters. Japanese
Romanization is called Romaji. Sado is an interesting example. Most
of the characters came from Internet data mining.

Hi, I think you got some mistakes there. The characters for gyokuro are
correct. But then why are the characters from tamacha the same?

Koicha is also not correct. It should be 浓茶 (thick tea).. But my
computer only uses chinese simplified character set. Here is the proper
character again:
http://www.zhongwen.com/d/191/d64.gif

Hi-- I've lurked for a while... it's more the Japan stuff that I know:
my research, as an anthropoogist, is in tea ceremony, and most
"tea-people" (tea ceremony professionals) in Japan drink very nice
leaf-tea when not in the tea room.

Niisonge caught the error with "tama-cha" vs. "gyokuro(-cha)." Tamacha
should have just two characters (玉茶) The second one on the
screen-dump should be deleted, leaving the third character, cha, for
"tea." Gyokuro is "tama" plus one more character, and -cha is often
affixed (玉露茶)

Niisonge also caught the use of the wrong character for koicha, and his
citation shows the (unsimplified) character used in Japanese (濃茶).
The first character in the original screen dump, the wrong character
(厚), is read both "atsui" and "koi," but is not used to write
koi-cha. This is the kind of "spelling" error that native-writers of
Japanese frequently make. (If you mispell "geneaology" as "geneology,"
you still get lots of hits on an English-language browser... )

"Koi-cha" is the right *reading*, but it's *"usui-cha" that is messed
up: It should be "usu-cha" (delete that i ) (The dashes in the
romanization just help you see the parts of the word, don't let me
confuse you.)

Space Cowboy is right about the age of the bushes, though the tea
dealers I know also talk about the use of shade: that the bushes for
koi-cha (thick tea) are kept in shade longer each day. For a beginner,
the key difference is that usu-cha (thin tea) has far less tea powder
in relation to the amout of water... and koi-cha (thick tea) is
prepared much thicker... you kind of wait for the tea to crawl down the
side of the bowl into your mouth. In terms of ritual, thin tea is
*far* more frequently prepared, and thick tea is usually something
only elite practitioners (or their students) ever have occasion to
drink. In the thick-tea ritual, a bowl of tea is shared, each guest
wiping the lip of the bowl carefully before sending it to the next
guest, while thin-tea is served (usually) one bowl per guest.

Thick-tea is quite a bit more expensive than the thin tea, and you use
about 5 times as much per serving as well... The thick-tea leaf is
prepared so that it is less bitter (important when drinking the tea so
thick!). Many elite tea practitioners say that when serving *thin* tea
to a guest who is not used to drinking matcha (沫茶 powdered tea,
also romanized maccha), it is ideal to serve thin-tea made with the
powder used for thick-tea-- because it is less bitter, easier to get
used to. My friends have often sent me the powder for thick tea in the
hopes that as I expose friends and students here in the US to powdered
tea, they will have a nice first experience.

I drink lots of teas aside from Japanese teas I enjoy this group
very much. Thanks everyone!

Space Cowboy wrote:
Thanks. All feedback is appreciated. I can't blame anything on typos.
Gyokuro and Tamacha as two transliterations which mean the same thing.
I get more hits for 厚茶 "thick tea" on .JP sites than yours. I
remember the character was lifted from a Japanese web page that also
talked about thin tea usuicha(usucha). FWIK the terms thin and thick
refer to the age of the tea bush when making maccha. From a younger
bush you make a thin concentration and older thick with the whisk.

Jim

niisonge wrote:
Here is a screen dump of some Japanese tea characters. Japanese
Romanization is called Romaji. Sado is an interesting example. Most
of the characters came from Internet data mining.

Hi, I think you got some mistakes there. The characters for gyokuro are
correct. But then why are the characters from tamacha the same?

Koicha is also not correct. It should be 浓茶 (thick tea).. But my
computer only uses chinese simplified character set. Here is the proper
character again:
http://www.zhongwen.com/d/191/d64.gif

Welcome to the group. I make a good straight man. Thanks for the
illiterati corrrections. When I go to a web site and see spelling and
grammar errors it makes me wonder. And in this case I'll never know
till corrected by someone who knows the language. I included thick and
thin and was hoping for more elucidation. I haven't heard from our
resident Japanese expert Kuri or folklorist Crymad in awhile and I find
it interesting who lurks in this group.

Jim

PS Hey Niisonge I never doubted you except I thought maybe this was the
Japanese meaning of the word thick. For myself I need to see the usage
in context and long ago gave up on dictionaries to look up tea
characters.

Thitherflit wrote:
Hi-- I've lurked for a while... it's more the Japan stuff that I know:
my research, as an anthropoogist, is in tea ceremony, and most
"tea-people" (tea ceremony professionals) in Japan drink very nice
leaf-tea when not in the tea room.
....crew cut...

PS Hey Niisonge I never doubted you except I thought maybe this was the
Japanese meaning of the word thick. For myself I need to see the usage
in context and long ago gave up on dictionaries to look up tea
characters.

Hey Space Cowboy, no problem. Just about all of the information I get
comes from published tea books - with the tea terms in them. So if I
see some mistakes, I raise a question, or correct it.

Actually, in Chinese too, they use the same characters for thick and
thin tea.

浓茶 (thick tea) - which in english we take to mean "strong tea".

Then, there is 淡茶, (thin tea) - which in English we call "weak
tea".

But in english I still like to call my tea thick or thin. It all goes
to way back in Chinese history sometime - when they actually drank the
leaves in a powder with the tea broth (whatever). If you added more tea
powder to the water, it was thick, and if you added less, it was thin.

Just think of porridge. You can have watery porridge if you add a lot
of water, then it would be pretty thin. Or you can add little water,
and make it pretty thick.

PS Hey Niisonge I never doubted you except I thought maybe this was the
Japanese meaning of the word thick. For myself I need to see the usage
in context and long ago gave up on dictionaries to look up tea
characters.

Hey Space Cowboy, no problem. Just about all of the information I get
comes from published tea books - with the tea terms in them. So if I
see some mistakes, I raise a question, or correct it.

Actually, in Chinese too, they use the same characters for thick and
thin tea.

浓茶 (thick tea) - which in english we take to mean "strong tea".

Then, there is 淡茶, (thin tea) - which in English we call "weak
tea".

But in english I still like to call my tea thick or thin. It all goes
to way back in Chinese history sometime - when they actually drank the
leaves in a powder with the tea broth (whatever). If you added more tea
powder to the water, it was thick, and if you added less, it was thin.

Just think of porridge. You can have watery porridge if you add a lot
of water, then it would be pretty thin. Or you can add little water,
and make it pretty thick.

Strong and weak still seems different than maccha thick and thin in
connotation. With maccha you whip up a thick or thin froth. I've
never seen a Chinese tea powder like maccha where you can use the whisk
to creath the froth. The Koi character I showed also means thick but
as pointed out incorrect usage. The one thing I've learned about Asian
languages the characters mean one thing the Romanization another. When
I come across new tea character pictograms I use the Internet to see if
the usage is similar elsewhere.

Jim

niisonge wrote:
PS Hey Niisonge I never doubted you except I thought maybe this was the
Japanese meaning of the word thick. For myself I need to see the usage
in context and long ago gave up on dictionaries to look up tea
characters.

Hey Space Cowboy, no problem. Just about all of the information I get
comes from published tea books - with the tea terms in them. So if I
see some mistakes, I raise a question, or correct it.

Actually, in Chinese too, they use the same characters for thick and
thin tea.

Ũ²è (thick tea) - which in english we take to mean "strong tea".

Then, there is µ*²è, (thin tea) - which in English we call "weak
tea".

But in english I still like to call my tea thick or thin. It all goes
to way back in Chinese history sometime - when they actually drank the
leaves in a powder with the tea broth (whatever). If you added more tea
powder to the water, it was thick, and if you added less, it was thin.

Just think of porridge. You can have watery porridge if you add a lot
of water, then it would be pretty thin. Or you can add little water,
and make it pretty thick.

Strong and weak still seems different than maccha thick and thin in
connotation.

Yes, you are right. That's because, in the West, tea drinkers were
originally taught to use infused tea, from whole leaves, and to drink
the liquid infusion. They never actually ate the leaves - like in
powdered form; i.e., consume tea in a powdered infusion in water .

So they would only call the resulting infusion of steepd tea either
strong or weak.

But I think in the West, were tea drinkers exposed to the Song dynasty
style of drinking tea in a powdered infusion, they would also call it
thick or thin tea - not as strong or weak.

But today, in modern Chinese, no matter if the tea is a powdered
infusion - where you consume the leaves with the tea, or if it's
steeped tea - it's still just referred to as thick or thin tea.

I'm not aware of any Chinese tea powder on this side of the Pacific
that could be consumed as such. I've seen Chinese green tea powder on
Ebay but the pictures looks more like fines.

Yeah, you're right. I haven't seen any Chinese tea powder here either.
But I haven't asked around yet either. There are a lot of chinese
cookbooks that call for tea powder as an ingredient, but they don't say
where to get the green tea powder from.

But anyway, you could still make it yourself; the equipment still
exists today. Just need to buy one of those stone mills.