[Scott re Ten Ren]
I have been to both the Rockville and NYC shops and never had a problem
finding someone who spoke English. They may not have known very much
about the teas they were selling, but they have always been polite to
me and willing to make individual cups so I could try different grades.

Can I ask when that was? In the early 1980's, the NYC Ten Ren girls would
gladly make cup after cup of gungfu tea in the back for me and my friends.
But, nowadays they seem satisfied with throwing a styrofoam cup of jasmine
into my hand. As for their English, I suppose I've been a bit harsh, but
more often than not they have nothing useful to say.

In my mind, and this may be harsh, any sane person should stay away
from Ten Ren unless they are buying the dirt cheap tea that TenRen's
peddling. Granted, even that is probably being sold at a high price.

Actually, the lower grade teas from Ten Ren are very inexpensive. I
tend to buy the next-to-lowest grade stuff from them, as I agree the
higher grade teas are overpriced. I like their Oriental Beauty tea a
lot and have not seen an equivalent elsewhere. Their lapsang souchong
is pretty dreadful. The oolongs are all over the place in quality.

I am not saying that their tea is bad, per se; just that it begins to take
on a generic quality that gets quickly boring. That's of course nothing but
my ever so humble opinion. I'm fond of their Oriental Beauty myself.

There is also more opportunity for dishonesty, since most Americans
basically know bad coffee, but are not particularly savvy about tea.
Not that this justifies such practices in any way, shape, or form.

This is how the Chinese do business with foreigners.

Americans too. If they don't take you seriously and you don't seem to
be someone who knows what they are buying and whom they wish to cultivate
a business relationship, you will be taken by merchants of ANY nationality.

Seems as though at this juncture in their business history they've
cultivated these faults. I imagine that with more security this will
improve. But what do I know,

Michael

Michael Plant wrote:
This is how the Chinese do business with foreigners.

Americans too. If they don't take you seriously and you don't seem to
be someone who knows what they are buying and whom they wish to cultivate
a business relationship, you will be taken by merchants of ANY nationality.

Seems as though at this juncture in their business history they've
cultivated these faults. I imagine that with more security this will
improve. But what do I know,

Not that this has anything to do with tea, but if Chinese business
practices, especially towards foreigners, are something that you find
interesting, you might want to check out "Negotiating China" by Carolyn
Blackman.

Michael Plant wrote:
[Scott re Ten Ren]
I have been to both the Rockville and NYC shops and never had a problem
finding someone who spoke English. They may not have known very much
about the teas they were selling, but they have always been polite to
me and willing to make individual cups so I could try different grades.

Can I ask when that was? In the early 1980's, the NYC Ten Ren girls would
gladly make cup after cup of gungfu tea in the back for me and my friends.
But, nowadays they seem satisfied with throwing a styrofoam cup of jasmine
into my hand. As for their English, I suppose I've been a bit harsh, but
more often than not they have nothing useful to say.

Pretty recently, although it's been maybe six months since I have been
to the Rockville store and a couple years since I went into the NYC
store.

It's true, though, that I have gone into the NYC store only knowing exactly
what I wanted to begin with. The last time I went in, I was with a friend
from out of town and we walked in and I asked about several kinds of tea
and if they could make cups for him to taste, and they were quite good
about it.

I am not saying that their tea is bad, per se; just that it begins to take
on a generic quality that gets quickly boring. That's of course nothing but
my ever so humble opinion. I'm fond of their Oriental Beauty myself.

A lot of their teas do, and most of them are basically variants of the
same green variety with more or less similar flavours. They don't have
a huge amount of variety among the main line, it's true. And they don't
really have any black teas other than their generic "black" line, which
is nothing impressive, the lapsang souchong, about which the less said
the better, and the "oriental beauty" which I think is the real standout.

There is also more opportunity for dishonesty, since most Americans
basically know bad coffee, but are not particularly savvy about tea.
Not that this justifies such practices in any way, shape, or form.

This is how the Chinese do business with foreigners.

Americans too. If they don't take you seriously and you don't seem to
be someone who knows what they are buying and whom they wish to cultivate
a business relationship, you will be taken by merchants of ANY nationality.

Seems as though at this juncture in their business history they've
cultivated these faults. I imagine that with more security this will
improve. But what do I know,

I hope so. And as someone who just bought a house, I can certainly say
that this sort of behaviour is more common than just in Chinese tea vendors.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

An interesting advice I've gotten from a tea merchant about places like
Ten Ren is this -- buy their cheapest tea.

It might sound weird, but if you buy their cheapest tea, it's likely to
be fresh because people buy it all the time. if you buy their
expensive stuff, it's likely stuff that's been sitting in the same
canister for ages because nobody buys them.

And thinking about it, it makes a lot of sense.

"MarshalN" writes:

An interesting advice I've gotten from a tea merchant about places like
Ten Ren is this -- buy their cheapest tea.

It might sound weird, but if you buy their cheapest tea, it's likely to
be fresh because people buy it all the time. if you buy their
expensive stuff, it's likely stuff that's been sitting in the same
canister for ages because nobody buys them.

And thinking about it, it makes a lot of sense.

That makes a certain amount of sense, but it also puts a ceiling on
the quality of the tea. Another way to aim for freshness at Ten Ren
is to buy their foil-sealed seasonal oolongs.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

Lewis Perin wrote:
"MarshalN" writes:
An interesting advice I've gotten from a tea merchant about places like
Ten Ren is this -- buy their cheapest tea.

It might sound weird, but if you buy their cheapest tea, it's likely to
be fresh because people buy it all the time. if you buy their
expensive stuff, it's likely stuff that's been sitting in the same
canister for ages because nobody buys them.

And thinking about it, it makes a lot of sense.

That makes a certain amount of sense, but it also puts a ceiling on
the quality of the tea. Another way to aim for freshness at Ten Ren
is to buy their foil-sealed seasonal oolongs.

Also a good point, but you may not be able to try them before buying (although
you can often buy them in little sample packs).

I once got a sample pack of various different teas in bags at the Rockville
store, which were very, very very stale. In the bag you also have no idea
what the stuff is like until you get it home.

With Ten Ren, if you get their _highest_ grade tea, you'll also be okay,
because they don't stock it and they'll have to order it in special.
But the difference between their highest and lowest grades isn't enough
to warrant the difference in price to me.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

With Ten Ren, if you get their _highest_ grade tea, you'll also be okay,
because they don't stock it and they'll have to order it in special.
But the difference between their highest and lowest grades isn't enough
to warrant the difference in price to me.

I found that in most of the TenRen shops that I visited, they are
trying to play the "stupid foreigner" card. They treat their customers
as if they know diddly-squat about tea and the mark-up in price
reflects that. Actually, there's a high percentage chance that if any
one of us walked into any given TenRen, that we may know more about tea
than the girls working there. The whole myth/mystery/magic idea that
Chinese people are the masters of tea in the whole world just doesn't
hold water.

Tea has two faces: Business and Culture. TenRen, as are most shops
that I've visited outside of China, is more concerned about the former
and not the latter. Keep this in mind when shopping there.

I did not even know about Ten Ren's retail stores when I posted my
original inquiry. I am pretty sure I won't be going there at least
anytime soon.
But is it true, as it seems from the responses, that you all like
their foil facked oolongs. That is what I had and was wondering if
they were priced right and of good quality. There is a number of them
behind the counter at the local asian market and would like to try
them because they are convenient to get. The one I got was about $30
for 300 grams. Pricey enough to pass up if not really that good, but
cheap enough to experiment if these are really good teas. I found the
high mountain oolong very tasty and floral, but I haven't had a lot of
oolongs and most I have had were not this Taiwanese green type.
It seems to be marketed to the local Asian community, so my sense was
that it might not be overpriced for a ignorant tourist population. In
a market like this, I wonder if I can really shop by price and count
on the more expensive teas really being worth it. (It is 99 Ranch in
Southern California for those in this region).
In short, did those of you who know, lke the Ten Ren foil packed,
loose oolongs that you have had? How do they compare to the mailorder
houses. I wonder if I should pass these Ten Rens by in favor of say an
Upton order? Or if these Ten Ren products are really quality tea.
Thanks all for their input!
On 26 May 2006 10:47:37 -0400, Lewis Perin wrote:

"MarshalN" writes:

An interesting advice I've gotten from a tea merchant about places like
Ten Ren is this -- buy their cheapest tea.

It might sound weird, but if you buy their cheapest tea, it's likely to
be fresh because people buy it all the time. if you buy their
expensive stuff, it's likely stuff that's been sitting in the same
canister for ages because nobody buys them.

And thinking about it, it makes a lot of sense.

That makes a certain amount of sense, but it also puts a ceiling on
the quality of the tea. Another way to aim for freshness at Ten Ren
is to buy their foil-sealed seasonal oolongs.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html