Today after work I stopped at the "Ranch 99 Market" (an Asian
supermarket on Hwy 99 north of Seattle) and picked up a 7oz bag of
sencha for $3, and a 7.4oz jar (with a glass-and-plastic stopper) of a
very green Ti Kuan Yin for $10.

The jar has a mostly yellow label that appears to be branded "ASIAN
TASTE (R)" and the tea itself is described as "Xue Feng Ti Kuan Yin"
.... and some Japanese katakana above it reads something like
"tekkanmen" (more precisely, "te-small tsu, ka-n, me-n") and I've just
noticed a gold "ASIAN TASTE" label on the bottom of the jar as well.

Now having a third infusion -- this stuff is absolutely delicious, and
easily stands up to the "Monkey Picked Tiguanyin" that Michael Plant
sent me a sample of last month (for all I know, it's the same stuff).

I must return to that store soon and try the same brand's Dragonwell;
there's also some green tea there that strongly resembles the "Green
Pekoe Blues" that I got a sample of from Adagio last Christmas. Lots
of other interesting-looking stuff there, too, but I didn't want to go
on a crazy buying spree just yet.

damn, I just love green oolongs,
stePH
in cup: see post :-)

2/6/06


Today after work I stopped at the "Ranch 99 Market" (an Asian
supermarket on Hwy 99 north of Seattle) and picked up a 7oz bag of
sencha for $3, and a 7.4oz jar (with a glass-and-plastic stopper) of a
very green Ti Kuan Yin for $10.

There are companies that would not sell you the box empty
for that price. Congratulations, if these teas proved OK.

The jar has a mostly yellow label that appears to be branded "ASIAN
TASTE (R)" and the tea itself is described as "Xue Feng Ti Kuan Yin"
... and some Japanese katakana above it reads something like
"tekkanmen" (more precisely, "te-small tsu, ka-n, me-n") and I've just
noticed a gold "ASIAN TASTE" label on the bottom of the jar as well.

Now having a third infusion -- this stuff is absolutely delicious, and
easily stands up to the "Monkey Picked Tiguanyin" that Michael Plant
sent me a sample of last month (for all I know, it's the same stuff).

If I recall, I sent you some of Silk Road Teas TGY, perhaps private reserve
number 37? Let me know. If that's the case, you have quite a find there, as
the 37 is an especially fine tea. Tell me about the finish and aftertaste of
the tea you bought. Is it long and complex on the tongue and at the back of
the throat?

I must return to that store soon and try the same brand's Dragonwell;
there's also some green tea there that strongly resembles the "Green
Pekoe Blues" that I got a sample of from Adagio last Christmas. Lots
of other interesting-looking stuff there, too, but I didn't want to go
on a crazy buying spree just yet.

You can go crazy in Chinese supermarkets and grocers; the tea is packaged in
so many interesting designs.

damn, I just love green oolongs,

Same here.

Michael

These approximate 200g pyrex jars appeared in my Asian stores about a
year ago. One style has the dome lid. The other has the thick pancake
lids. Each has three plastic O rings. The Challenger could have used
that extra ring. If the tea was any fresher I'd have to slap it. I
file back the rings so I can get the lid on/off more easily. Beware
you will spill tea the first time. They are the mainstream Chinese and
Japanese teas. I'd guess about 20 in all so far. Everytime I go back
more appears. Two of my favorites are Dong Ding which is the hard to
find mainland version and fluffy green white tip Spring Bud (110g,
maybe the one you mentioned). Xue Feng means Snow Peak which is a
desired high mountain TGY. My local Asian prices are under $9. I
think it is an attempt to provide excellent value at commercial prices.
Foojoy is also doing that with their Classics line but more expensive.
A Taiwan company called Good Young is doing the same thing. These
teas are my everyday Chinese and Japanese staples. You can use the
jars for storage. Us insiders call green oolongs, Pouchongs which is a
specialty of Taiwan.

Jim

stePH wrote:
Today after work I stopped at the "Ranch 99 Market" (an Asian
supermarket on Hwy 99 north of Seattle) and picked up a 7oz bag of
sencha for $3, and a 7.4oz jar (with a glass-and-plastic stopper) of a
very green Ti Kuan Yin for $10.

The jar has a mostly yellow label that appears to be branded "ASIAN
TASTE (R)" and the tea itself is described as "Xue Feng Ti Kuan Yin"
... and some Japanese katakana above it reads something like
"tekkanmen" (more precisely, "te-small tsu, ka-n, me-n") and I've just
noticed a gold "ASIAN TASTE" label on the bottom of the jar as well.

Now having a third infusion -- this stuff is absolutely delicious, and
easily stands up to the "Monkey Picked Tiguanyin" that Michael Plant
sent me a sample of last month (for all I know, it's the same stuff).

I must return to that store soon and try the same brand's Dragonwell;
there's also some green tea there that strongly resembles the "Green
Pekoe Blues" that I got a sample of from Adagio last Christmas. Lots
of other interesting-looking stuff there, too, but I didn't want to go
on a crazy buying spree just yet.

damn, I just love green oolongs,
stePH
in cup: see post :-)

snip snip

[Jim]
Us insiders call green oolongs, Pouchongs which is a
specialty of Taiwan.

[Michael]
Jim, as an outsider by nature, I feel free to say
that Pouchong (Bao Zhong) is not another name
for green Oolong, but rather a special category of
even greener Oolong, nearly always created in long
twisty form rather than fisted, and of a particular
jade color and melon soft taste and aroma. I have
seen them produced at a higher roast, but these are
to my mind far from true. Unless I have this all
wrong.

I agree with everything you say. However I use Pouchong to mean a
level of oxidation which is 10-25% for sake of argument or a slightly
oxidized green. I have Pouchong which is mainly twisted but some that
is half fisted. It is from a region of Taiwan but also from the
mainland. As a side note the Taiwan characters for Pouchong don't
match the characters for Baozhong. They should match even accounting
for Traditional and Simplified differences. What is you meaning of
'green Oolong' if not a level of oxidation?

Jim

Michael Plant wrote:
snip snip

[Jim]
Us insiders call green oolongs, Pouchongs which is a
specialty of Taiwan.

[Michael]
Jim, as an outsider by nature, I feel free to say
that Pouchong (Bao Zhong) is not another name
for green Oolong, but rather a special category of
even greener Oolong, nearly always created in long
twisty form rather than fisted, and of a particular
jade color and melon soft taste and aroma. I have
seen them produced at a higher roast, but these are
to my mind far from true. Unless I have this all
wrong.

I love 99 Ranch Market. Cheapest asian produce I've been able to find.
Whole frozen ducks for $8, silkie (black/blue) chicken, calamari steak,
fish ball, young coconut for $0.50 each...the wonders at that store
never cease! They even have a small take-out station with delicious
home-style Chinese food AND lots of tea AND stuff to make your own boba
at home.

*rave*rave*rave*

"Michael Plant" wrote in message
...
snip snip

[Jim]
Us insiders call green oolongs, Pouchongs which is a
specialty of Taiwan.

[Michael]
Jim, as an outsider by nature, I feel free to say
that Pouchong (Bao Zhong) is not another name
for green Oolong, but rather a special category of
even greener Oolong, nearly always created in long
twisty form rather than fisted, and of a particular
jade color and melon soft taste and aroma. I have
seen them produced at a higher roast, but these are
to my mind far from true. Unless I have this all
wrong.

Michael, I recall reading somewhere that Pouchong is oxidised by wrapping it
in cloth; what effect this has I don't know, except it may slow the
oxidation rate, easing the process of picking precisely the right oxidation
level.

I agree with your assessment. The best ones all appear to be oxidised in
the 10-20% range, are roasted gently or not at all and have wonderfully
delicate aromatics.

Dean

"stePH" wrote in message
oups.com...
Today after work I stopped at the "Ranch 99 Market" (an Asian
supermarket on Hwy 99 north of Seattle) and picked up a 7oz bag of
sencha for $3, and a 7.4oz jar (with a glass-and-plastic stopper) of a
very green Ti Kuan Yin for $10.

The jar has a mostly yellow label that appears to be branded "ASIAN
TASTE (R)" and the tea itself is described as "Xue Feng Ti Kuan Yin"
... and some Japanese katakana above it reads something like
"tekkanmen" (more precisely, "te-small tsu, ka-n, me-n") and I've just
noticed a gold "ASIAN TASTE" label on the bottom of the jar as well.

Now having a third infusion -- this stuff is absolutely delicious, and
easily stands up to the "Monkey Picked Tiguanyin" that Michael Plant
sent me a sample of last month (for all I know, it's the same stuff).
snip


I'm up that way tomorrow, I shall have to pick up some. Thanks for the
information Steph.

Melinda

Michael Plant wrote:
2/6/06


The jar has a mostly yellow label that appears to be branded "ASIAN
TASTE (R)" and the tea itself is described as "Xue Feng Ti Kuan Yin"
... and some Japanese katakana above it reads something like
"tekkanmen" (more precisely, "te-small tsu, ka-n, me-n") and I've just
noticed a gold "ASIAN TASTE" label on the bottom of the jar as well.

Now having a third infusion -- this stuff is absolutely delicious, and
easily stands up to the "Monkey Picked Tiguanyin" that Michael Plant
sent me a sample of last month (for all I know, it's the same stuff).

If I recall, I sent you some of Silk Road Teas TGY, perhaps private reserve
number 37? Let me know.
Confirmed. I've drank everything you sent but still have the baggies,
and it's "Ti Kuan Yin Monkey Picked 37".

If that's the case, you have quite a find there, as
the 37 is an especially fine tea. Tell me about the finish and aftertaste of
the tea you bought. Is it long and complex on the tongue and at the back of
the throat?
The flavor is sweet, and more "floral" than "grassy" or "oceanic".
I'll have some more tomorrow, paying special attention to the finish,
and let you know. Better yet, I'll bag a couple of spoonfuls and send
to you.

stePH
"I'll brew another pot of ambiguity"
-- Adrian Belew, King Crimson

DPMRBbGf.2851$Qb.2605@trndny072/7/06


"Michael Plant" wrote in message
...
snip snip

[Jim]
Us insiders call green oolongs, Pouchongs which is a
specialty of Taiwan.

[Michael]
Jim, as an outsider by nature, I feel free to say
that Pouchong (Bao Zhong) is not another name
for green Oolong, but rather a special category of
even greener Oolong, nearly always created in long
twisty form rather than fisted, and of a particular
jade color and melon soft taste and aroma. I have
seen them produced at a higher roast, but these are
to my mind far from true. Unless I have this all
wrong.

Michael, I recall reading somewhere that Pouchong is oxidised by wrapping it
in cloth; what effect this has I don't know, except it may slow the
oxidation rate, easing the process of picking precisely the right oxidation
level.

I agree with your assessment. The best ones all appear to be oxidised in
the 10-20% range, are roasted gently or not at all and have wonderfully
delicate aromatics.

Hi Dean,

I believe traditionally it was paper rather than cloth,
but who has time for that these days? I don't know
the reason for it, your theory being as good as any.

Have you tried any of those 50%ers? I have, but
don't think terribly much of them, since they are
neither fish nor fowl, lacking the melon flower
delicacy of the real thing.

Michael

Space 2/7/06


I agree with everything you say. However I use Pouchong to mean a
level of oxidation which is 10-25% for sake of argument or a slightly
oxidized green. I have Pouchong which is mainly twisted but some that
is half fisted. It is from a region of Taiwan but also from the
mainland. As a side note the Taiwan characters for Pouchong don't
match the characters for Baozhong. They should match even accounting
for Traditional and Simplified differences. What is you meaning of
'green Oolong' if not a level of oxidation?

Jim


Good, as long as we're on the same page describing the same thing. Baozhong
(Pin Yin) -- I've seen it transliterated as Pouchong as well -- is produced
in long twisted leaf. It's traditionally paper wrapped in the processing.
The oxidation level is most likely closer to 7%, although I could be wrong
here. In answer to your question, to me "green" Oolong is lightly oxidized
and not- or *very* lightly roasted Oolong the color of whose dry leaf takes
shades of straw yellow through brilliant jade green. Most are fisted. Having
said all that, I perceive a distinct taste profile in those teas I'm calling
Bao Zhong, that make it readily identifiable. I know, as you said, that they
produce this tea in different places, but the Taiwan version is the version
for me. I'm particularly fond of Bao Zhong, although finding great ones is
far more difficult than finding cloying, heavy handed mediocre ones.

Michael

I need to state obvious definitions because I don't see how you can use
them for any real meaning of a tea that might fall through the crack.
By definition Oolong means some degree of oxidation. If it isn't
oxidized by definition it is green. Full oxidation is called black. I
exclude White tea as a special case. The lightest oxidation levels
I've seen are the Pouchongs. The heaviest oxidation levels I've seen
are DimSum TGY and I guess 80%. I've never seen anything that would
fit your definition of green Oolong. I don't think that crack exists.
If you do anything to the leaf it will cause brusing and oxidation and
require roasting. I buy every Taiwan pouchong I find. You'll see it
described also as green jade oolong. The commercial brands from Good
Young are now my favorite. That leaf is half fisted. The first time I
tasted Taiwan pouchong is still seared in my brain. I can remember
other first time tea tastes but it is faint memory. I'm going to
scratch out and post the Taiwan characters for Pouchong and see if
anyone knows they mean Baozhong or not. It's been a question for me a
long time although everyone says the two are transliterations.
Everything I get from Taiwan is still sold as a pouchong and never as
baozhong.

Jim

Michael Plant wrote:
Space 2/7/06


I agree with everything you say. However I use Pouchong to mean a
level of oxidation which is 10-25% for sake of argument or a slightly
oxidized green. I have Pouchong which is mainly twisted but some that
is half fisted. It is from a region of Taiwan but also from the
mainland. As a side note the Taiwan characters for Pouchong don't
match the characters for Baozhong. They should match even accounting
for Traditional and Simplified differences. What is you meaning of
'green Oolong' if not a level of oxidation?

Jim


Good, as long as we're on the same page describing the same thing. Baozhong
(Pin Yin) -- I've seen it transliterated as Pouchong as well -- is produced
in long twisted leaf. It's traditionally paper wrapped in the processing.
The oxidation level is most likely closer to 7%, although I could be wrong
here. In answer to your question, to me "green" Oolong is lightly oxidized
and not- or *very* lightly roasted Oolong the color of whose dry leaf takes
shades of straw yellow through brilliant jade green. Most are fisted. Having
said all that, I perceive a distinct taste profile in those teas I'm calling
Bao Zhong, that make it readily identifiable. I know, as you said, that they
produce this tea in different places, but the Taiwan version is the version
for me. I'm particularly fond of Bao Zhong, although finding great ones is
far more difficult than finding cloying, heavy handed mediocre ones.

Michael

Space 2/8/06


I need to state obvious definitions because I don't see how you can use
them for any real meaning of a tea that might fall through the crack.
By definition Oolong means some degree of oxidation. If it isn't
oxidized by definition it is green. Full oxidation is called black. I
exclude White tea as a special case. The lightest oxidation levels
I've seen are the Pouchongs.

We're together so far. Thus, Pouchong is the lowest level of oxidation, and
thus still qualifies as an Oolong.

The heaviest oxidation levels I've seen
are DimSum TGY and I guess 80%. I've never seen anything that would
fit your definition of green Oolong.I don't think that crack exists.

Feel free to disgard my definition. I'm just reporting how I experience
them. Most of the Oolongs I get on the greener side, both PRC and Taiwan fit
my description -- fisted, brilliant green, some straw yellow or some
permutation thereof.

If you do anything to the leaf it will cause brusing and oxidation and
require roasting.

Why would some small degree of oxidation generate a need for roasting? It
does seem to make some sense though, especially to stabilize the tea. But,
then there is steaming. Who knows? Come forth!

I buy every Taiwan pouchong I find.

In my case, that would be a *lot* of it.

You'll see it
described also as green jade oolong.

I think you will find that, while they are close,
they are not exactly the same at all.

The commercial brands from Good
Young are now my favorite. That leaf is half fisted. The first time I
tasted Taiwan pouchong is still seared in my brain.

Sorry to hear about your brain. Did it require surgery?

I can remember
other first time tea tastes but it is faint memory.

Faint memory? Was that a result of the brain sear?

I'm going to
scratch out and post the Taiwan characters for Pouchong and see if
anyone knows they mean Baozhong or not. It's been a question for me a
long time although everyone says the two are transliterations.

That would be very helpful. That way, we'll both get something more
definitive.

Everything I get from Taiwan is still sold as a pouchong and never as
baozhong.

I think if you look hard enough, you'll find some "Bao Zhong" out there from
Taiwan. If you are shopping for it exclusively in grocery stores, then they
might be more prone to the Wade-Giles transliteration than to the hipper,
more up-to-date, cooler Pin Yin as for example, BabelCarp uses.

Michael

Michael Plant writes:

[...baozhong/pouchong...]
I think if you look hard enough, you'll find some "Bao Zhong" out there from
Taiwan. If you are shopping for it exclusively in grocery stores, then they
might be more prone to the Wade-Giles transliteration than to the hipper,
more up-to-date, cooler Pin Yin as for example, BabelCarp uses.

Babelcarp prefers Pinyin, but tries to list Wade-Giles too where it's
used a lot. With regard to simplified vs. traditional characters, I
try to get the former first because they're much more widely used on
the Net, but I try to get the latter too where they differ. But
there's so much to do...

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

I don't want to get into the meaning of the word IS. Your definition
just made me think there are green teas that are oxidized and oxidized
teas that are green. You can blame my seared brain. If somebody said
green Oolong to me without clarification I would think of less
oxidation in the category percentage of a Taiwan Pouchong. I just
bought an aged dark oolong from Taiwan. It is the most oxidized oolong
I have from Taiwan. I would guess 60%. The leaves are still green in
the pot unlike DimSum TGY which are black at 80%. The first green TGY
I bought from my local tea shoppe. The second Xue Feng just recently
mentioned. Everything else on the shelf in Chinatown is dark. I still
keep looking for the Butterfly brand mentioned by Melinda almost
exactly a year ago. No luck.

Jim

Michael Plant wrote:
Space 2/8/06

Feel free to disgard my definition. I'm just reporting how I experience
them. Most of the Oolongs I get on the greener side, both PRC and Taiwan fit
my description -- fisted, brilliant green, some straw yellow or some
permutation thereof.